For Those Of You Who Don't Speak Anti-Vaccer, I'll Translate: Why Does Bobby Jr. Even KNOW The Word 'Mitochondria?'

[TrollBuster9090]

Last edited Thu Aug 28, 2025, 11:49 PM - Edit history (2)

I haven't worked on vaccines for 30 years. So, perhaps some of the other people with more current knowledge can fill in the gaps. But as a former vaccinologist, my ears perk up whenever I hear an anti-vaccer start talking about mitochondria. Here's the story, and here's the only reason why an amateur like Bobby Kennedy Jr. even knows the word 'mitochondria.'

After the first polio vaccines were introduced, one or two people actually got polio from the vaccine. Literally, one in 100 million, or a similar number. Fortunately for us, our parents had seen what the scourge of polio can do, (hospital wards full of children in iron lungs!) and thought it was better to take a chance with the vaccine than it was to take a chance with polio.

A few people sued the pharmaceutical companies that made the vaccines, and the companies stopped manufacturing vaccines because they didn't want to get sued. This led to the creation of the vaccine courts, through the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986, and creation of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). All companies that made vaccines paid a share of their profits to a common fund; and the govt. set up a special court to determine if anyone had been damaged from a vaccine. If so, they would be awarded money from the fund. (Yes, some 'conservatives' have a problem with the idea of people not being able to sue pharmaceutical companies over vaccines. Oddly enough, those same 'conservatives' have no problem passing laws preventing people from suing gun manufacturers for damage inflicted by guns.)

One of the common tropes of the anti-vaccers is:
"If vaccines are so harmless, why does the vaccine court pay out millions every year in compensation?"

Answer:
All (but one) of those payments were awarded for injuries caused by mishandling of the vaccine, not the vaccine itself. The vial containing the vaccine got contaminated with fungus (a common one), vial wasn't refrigerated or handled properly, the needle wasn't sterile, somebody was injected with a chicken egg vaccine (influenza) without the doctor warning them about chicken egg allergies etc.

There is only ONE CASE where the vaccine court awarded damages based on the components of the vaccine itself. That's the case of Hannah Poling, who had an extremely rare mitochondrial disease that was exacerbated by thimerosal. A mercury derivative that prevents the vaccine vial from getting contaminated.

(Mitochondria are microscopic organelles found within cells. There are some very rare genetic diseases that effect mitochondria.)

Many vaccinologists thought the court should not have awarded the damages in that case. The disease is extremely rare, and I believe Hannah hadn't even been diagnosed when she got the vaccine. It's the equivalent of a color-blind man crossing the street on a red light, and getting hit by a car. Then suing the traffic light company for using red and green lights, which people with color blindness can't distinguish. Many vaccinologists thought the award would lead exactly to where we are now. With anti-vaccers nailing Hannah Poling to their flag, and causing a lot of misery.

So here we are: There are FOUR WORDS that every anti-vaccer knows.
1. Andrew Wakefield (his study was disproven by the 'Danish' NEJM study)
2. Hannah Poling
3. Thimerosal (which was safe, but which is no longer used anyway, to appease the antivaccers)
4. Mitochondria


UPDATE: This is the study I mentioned above, disproving the Wakefield study that claimed vaccines cause autism. Please feel free to spread it around, and help dispell that myth.

In Denmark, all the medical records are computerized for easy access by epidemiologists. Approximately 500,000 children were born in Denmark between 1990 and 2000. Approximately 300,000 of them were vaccinated, and approximately 200,000 of them were not. They then compared the frequency of autism between the two groups, and it was exactly the same. Thus, proving (as far as a negative can be proved) that autism is not correlated with vaccination.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

[TrollBuster9090]

1. Sorry, I guess that's actually SIX words. (Been a long day) nt

[yardwork]

8. Thanks for posting this. That explains the hysteria about mercury, too.

[TrollBuster9090]

22. Thanks! Of course, one of the features of a conspiracy theory is that if you disprove it, they'll just move on to...

...a different variant of the conspiracy theory.

First they claimed the MMRV vaccine caused autism. When that was disproven, they moved on to Thimerosal as the 'cause.' When that was disproven, they moved on to the adjuvant in the vaccine (squalene).

People whining about squalene in their vaccine is as ridiculous as people complaining about mRNA (as in mRNA vaccines). If mRNA or squalene cause problems we're REALLY in trouble, because those are two compounds that the human body already makes by the TRUCKLOAD.

[LearnedHand]

31. Meh it's four main arguments, so close enough

Thank you for this. It’s a terrific explanation of the antivax “arguments.”

[TrollBuster9090]

36. Thank you! nt

[EdmondDantes_]

2. I just assumed he was mispronouncing midi-chlorian given his lack of medical knowledge

[DET]

3. Thank You

That was very interesting and informative. I can hear the anti-vaxxers now - ‘Do your research!’

[TrollBuster9090]

9. Yep. "I've done my research" doesn't mean you did any clinical trials. It translates as...

"I searched through youtube videos until I finally found one that confirms what I already wanted to believe."

[llmart]

4. Very interesting.

Thank you for all of that and for taking the time to post it. I learned something new today.

I have a niece who's antivaxxer. She's always been a troubled person. I don't know her personally since I don't live anywhere near her. She falls for all the woo-woo stuff out there.

[yardwork]

6. There may be a reason for that.

A couple decades ago Russia started promoting anti-vax propaganda in Africa, in order to cause distrust of WHO, USAID, and other relief organizations.

Russia and China have been in a race to buy up land in Africa. Recently Russia basically took over a broad swathe of Northern Africa.

Guess who else has been promoting anti-vax propaganda in Africa for decades? RFK, Jr.

Putin is very good at spreading targeted propaganda online. His troll farms know exactly who to target. It's not a coincidence that the same people who read a lot of left-wing "news" about the Middle East are also anti-vaxxers.

[TrollBuster9090]

10. you're welcome! nt

[misanthrope]

5. Because he had high school biology

Knowing about mitochondria isn't exactly upper level stuff.

[yardwork]

7. I doubt RFK, Jr. remembers anything from high school.

He is truly drug-addled. I believe the OP has a good point.

Does RFK, Jr. actually believe the crap he spews or is he being paid to spew it? Or both?

[TrollBuster9090]

12. Personally, I think he honestly believes it. But he has 'autodidact disease.' The true plague of the 21st Century

Logging on to the internet, finding a youtube movie, or a podcast that confirms something you already wanted to believe. Then, jumping from there to all the other confirmation articles you want to see, thanks to the youtube/X etc. algorithms, is definitely a plague of knowledge that's unique to the modern age.

[yardwork]

32. Agreed, but he's been grifting for a long time, too.

[erronis]

42. Thank you. Everyone should be alert for "autodidact disease". It can strike almost anyone, especially self researchers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism

While generally a positive aspect of learning, it has been found to cause severe vacuoles in the brain when the learning happens in bubbles or pressure chambers.

[rubbersole]

13. His memory is obsessed with fathering and austic child.

Needs an excuse. Vaccines! That's the ticket....
My closest friends have an autistic child. The love in their lives overcomes anything negative with the amount of attention required by their son. It's beyond heartwarming.

[Ilsa]

23. It's a hard life. Very stressful,

especially when they are nonverbal adults.

[yardwork]

33. I don't view him in a positive way.

I see nothing good or kind in his behavior. I don't think he's a good father. His wife killed herself because of him.

[slightlv]

16. I figured he just got science mixed up with

the Star Wars movies, and wanted to make sure no one was deprived of the "Force" against their will! /snark

[GB_RN]

20. He Makes Money Off It.

He runs a legal foundation that makes money referring vaccine “victims” to ambulance chasers. Or some setup very similar to what I describe.

[yardwork]

34. I think he's been taking money from evildoers for a long time.

It's not a coincidence that he helped get Trump elected.

[TrollBuster9090]

11. No, but knowing about mitochondria in relation to vaccine misinformation ...

...is a very specific marker.

[Maj. Dude]

14. Well now...

That you've said it, it will be in all the faux news segments for a while.

[PufPuf23]

15. Thank you for the informative OP and thread. nt

[jfz9580m]

17. "I don't know what's going on in his head but it's not good"

Classic understated Dr.Fauci.

He called this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anthony_Fauci]
“unfortunate”

Dr.Fauci was the rare public figure even I was a fan of. He was such a good man and attacked so viciously. I was taken aback by that. Who dislikes Fauci? He is not even a politician.

He was exactly what someone in that position is supposed to be-a disinterested public official. To this day I have no idea what his politics are except I don’t see how they cannot
not have Colbert’s “reality’s liberal bias” at the very least. But at no point did he delve into politics.
That’s a scary movement-the anti vaxxers.

[TrollBuster9090]

26. Fauci is actually one of my idols! He was a NATIONAL TREASURE! People don't realize how fortunate we were to have him

...at the NIH and CDC for 55 years! He was the best virologist I've ever seen! He could have easily quit the CDC thirty years ago, and made a fortune working for Moderna or Phizer etc. He's a hero, and I can't believe how badly he was treated by a childish half-wit like Tump and his minions.

First, Trump and Faux News vilify him, and sick a few million heavily armed, mentally unbalanced MAGA cultists on him...and THEN Trump pulls his security detail! It's unbelievable!

But anyway, Fauci is gone from the spotlight now. If you want to look for a new vaccinologist to admire, look to Peter Hotez. He's at least as amazing as Fauci. Hotez developed a free, non-patented Covid vaccine for use in the third world. He saved millions of lives. And I can't believe how badly he's been treated.

[jfz9580m]

29. You raise a good point

But anyway, Fauci is gone from the spotlight now.
I had thought of posting about Dr Fauci a few days ago and then decided not to, thinking the poor man should have some peace away from the spotlight.

Same w Dr.Hotz.. MAGA attention span being as short as it is has its pluses ;-/.
I hope everyone somehow weathers this where they are not already embattled by these goons.

[Hekate]

18. Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

[Mblaze]

19. Thanks for this information.

[BurnDoubt]

21. The moment I heard the term

"alternative facts" I knew we were in a battle with The Dark Lord.
"Alternative facts" are NOT FACTS, however comfortable they might make you feel.
"Reconfiguring the numbers" is to be expected from people who are KNOWN to obfuscate for advantage.
"Bad Money Drives Out Good" is true for Facts as well.
We have watched them kill the Trust developed by people of good will and made Truth a hostage of malfeasance.
It's comforting knowing such principled pricks are making decisions for our Children.
See how easy it is to LIE?

[newdeal2]

24. Very informative post

Thank you. I try to stay away from the loonies but it's better to be prepared.

[marble falls]

25. Why does he know "Mitochondria"? He cheated once on NYT Friday crossword puzzle?

[canetoad]

27. Great post, thank you

Extremely informative. I looked up Hannah Poling; So that's it? That's the evidence for the autism scare? (this is the aritcle I read: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904)

[TrollBuster9090]

38. That's one of the articles, yes.

There is another, much longer review paper that I saw in about 2010, that discussed all of the common vaccine conspiracy theories, including the Thimerosal one. Where 'mercury' is blamed for autism. If you chase down all the references, you see that the myth of thimerosal and autism comes down to just one case, which is tenuous at best.

Either way, they stopped putting thimerosal in vaccine vials years ago, to try and tamp down the conspiracy theory. But appeasing conspiracy theories never helps. If you disprove one theory, they just jump on to the next one. It's a feature of the paranoid mind. Trying to convince them of things with actual data never works.

[seleff]

28. Actually, I think he's referring to mitochondrial biogenesis

I'm assuming that since RFK, Jr, is an avid exercise practitioner, he is referring to the increase in number and size of mitochondria that appears in muscle cells in response to frequent aerobic exercise. He presumably was looking at apparent fitness levels (or lack thereof) of kids as he walked through the airport and made a visual assessment of the health and number of mitochondria in cells of the kids. Since mitochondria produce ATP (energy "currency" of the cell) most efficiently during aerobic respiration, the assumption is that having more and/or larger mitochondria makes one's muscles more energized.

[yardwork]

30. No way does RFK, Jr. understand any of that.

[Whiskeytide]

35. Great analysis and explanation. Thank you. The best ...

… confirmation - for me anyway - that vaccines are safe is the fact that the trial lawyers just about wholly abandoned class actions against the manufacturers 20 or so years ago. (There is some, but not much, and most of what there is tends to be cases where the harm was really independent of the vaccines themselves - as you pointed out).

I’m a trial lawyer. I PROMISE that if there was any way to connect anything in the vaccines to bad outcomes, it would be the basis for a lot more litigation.

[TrollBuster9090]

39. Yes! Exactly!

But I'm sure the anti-vaccine crowd would just claim that all the lawyers have been bribed by big pharma.

[Rebl2]

37. He doesn't

Know what it means.

[nuxvomica]

40. This is the sort of info we need to know

It explains the issue succinctly and gives you the bullet points to use when discussing vaccines with people in the fever dream. Thanks for posting!

[Starbeach]

41. Excellent Primer

Really helpful background here. That word jumped out to me right away.

[IbogaProject]

43. Wasn't RFK a personal injury lawyer before this?

So his world view has been warped by the perverse incentives of contingency fee legal work using shady science to try and win jury awards. And I am in favor of reexamining the way we make vaccines as some are make in cell cultures and even on living animals. But any of that would be a research initiative as it will take years if not decades to look to making vaccines even cleaner than they are now. I was very angry when Moderna paid off the U Pitt Medical Center to suppress a promising COVID vaccine technology of the spike protein on a super sharp microscopic sugar spikes to be used as a patch. But it was bought off and canceled and never continued even testing.