I'm not going to set any recommendations records here at DU for this one, but here goes.

[Tommy Carcetti]

Everything Epstein related--as to a political scandal--is fool's gold.

That's not to say there weren't horrific, horrific crimes involved.

There were.

That's not to say that Donald Trump had, at the very least, a rather problematic friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

He did.

There's plenty of smoke, but I don't know if we'll ever see the fire. I fear we're past that.

It all reminds me a bit of the Casey Anthony murder case.

There was plenty to suggest that Casey knew about the circumstances surrounding her daughter's death, and that she almost certainly lied about it to cover those circumstances up. But we never knew exactly how it happened. And by the time the body was found, it was decomposed to get a real affirmative cause of death.

Wanting to do something, the District Attorney's office filed murder charges against Casey. But because it couldn't really say 100% how she was killed, they were backed into a corner and basically made up a speculative cause of death to the best of their knowledge. But speculative causes of death don't stand up well in a court of law, and the end result was that Casey was acquitted of murder, even though it was painfully obvious she likely had some knowledge at the least of how her daughter died.

I fear we are at a dead end regarding Epstein, as much as it pains me to say, and as much as we would want it to be true, this likely isn't the story that's going to end Donald Trump when all is said and done.

[leftstreet]

1. DURec

[RockRaven]

2. There is no justice there to be had, no, but let's set them upon each other and

let the MAGAts/QAnons eat themselves for once.

[lostincalifornia]

3. This is about the victims. The outrage will be if the press covers this superficially, and ignores the REAL STORY

about it. Why has it taken so long to bring this story out into the public, and who has allowed this "cover-up" to happen, and it is still happening.

[Raven123]

20. EXACTLY. This is not about Trump. The victims deserve justice

They were victimized y Epstein, then the Justice system, and then Trump campaign which used the “release the files”:mantra to help win votes. These women deserve justice. Releasing the files is only a start.

[womanofthehills]

31. 🚨MAJOR BREAKING: Epstein survivors just announced they will release their own list of names."

MAJOR BREAKING: Epstein survivors just announced they will release their own list of names.

“We know who abused us. We saw who came and went. This list will be survivor-led—for survivors.”

The government stalled.

Now the victims are doing it themselves.

Link to tweet

?s=46

[Jim__]

32. +1000 - It's about the victims.

[LeftInTX]

4. My BIL says that Trump is likely using Epstein's list to coerce people into giving him what he wants.

"Hey, I see you here. You know how I want you to do away with your DEI program?"

And on it goes.

[Raven123]

43. I can imagine a few possibilities

1) Trump isn’t an innocent bystander whose name happens to be in the files
2) Trump’s dementia is so advanced he has lost all perspective. Dementia can affect decision making.
3) Trump has been bribed to keep the files secret. We know he can be paid off.
4) Trump is being threatened by someone who has compromising info on Trump to keep the files secret.

Any or all of the above may be operationing.

[GusBob]

5. No witnesses in the Anthony saga

The victim died

These victims are very much not all dead.

And that Maxwell lady was convicted of crimes

I do however think that DT is gonna get a pass, UNLESS he keeps with the cover up

[gab13by13]

6. I could not disagree more about this opinion,

Epstein Gate is the only controversy to scare Krasnov.

Releasing the Epstein files is now bipartisan with 4 Congressional Magats on board, need 2 more Magats to sign the discharge petition to get the bill on the floor.

If the bill makes it to the floor a lot of Congressional Magats are going to have to think long and hard about voting to not release the files.

Epstein Gate is far from finished, if the truth ever comes out I believe that Putin and Bibi will be involved.

What will bring Krasnov down? GOTV? Lol, Magats are rigging the election.

Speaker Johnson adjourned the House early just because of Epstein Gate. Johnson thinks it's important.

[KT2000]

9. He runs a protection racket

and revelations from Epstein files would put an end to that. He is too old to suffer prison etc. but it would end the trump crime family from fleecing Americans.

[Xavier Breath]

7. I can't argue with that.

The moment Trump grabbed the reins of power it was likely over.

[jmbar2]

8. It's about more than Trump's specific role.

It's about a criminal network of rich people who engaged in crime and so far have gotten away with it.

Trump's main role is to protect the rich men involved with his chosen appointments, like Bondi. Sounds like a RICO case.

[Attilatheblond]

18. Thinking what Felon fears most is the others involved going after him. LOTS of powerful men likely involved. Mob too?

That's why he NEEDS to be POTUS, and let us taxpayers, the US military and all US resources protect his ass.

[BlueTsunami2018]

10. It was never going to end him no matter what.

I don’t know why people think the system is going to work in any way against Piss or any of the people in his administration.

I will repeat this until I’m blue in the face, these people are fascists. Fascists don’t adhere to the system, they do what they want. Fascists don’t get voted out. Fascists don’t care if you wave signs or shout at them.

There’s only one way to get rid of fascists and the Red Army doesn’t exist anymore. No one is coming to save us. It’s up to the American People and they are clearly not up to the task at this point. Eventually the material conditions will exist to start what needs to happen but right now? Nope. We’re stuck with these fucks no matter what comes out or what they do.

[1WorldHope]

36. That sounds too much like fuck it, do nothing, save your energy.

People are protesting all over this country, big cities and small towns. We don't see it on the news but it's happening! I'm a born pessimist, but, if my dad could run off to the navy from a farm in Nebraska to fight Nazis, then I can sure as hell fight to the death if needed. The mantra, "We're just going to lose anyway" won't help even a little bit.
If you haven't gone to a protest yet and are capable, go. The comradery will give you some hope. There are vets in DC talking to the National Guard soldiers about their oath. There are many angry people, from every corner of this country and this bullshit has to end.

[BlueTsunami2018]

38. No. It actually means there's only one way to end this.

And people aren’t ready for it. Too soft, too comfortable, not even close to ready for the “inconvenience” let alone get bloody over it.

Because that’s what it’s going to take.

When we’re ready for that I’m there.

[1WorldHope]

41. I hope you are wrong, but, I have also been very discouraged.

Protest days are the best days of my life these days. It's a joy to be in a crowd of people who understand, who are awake.
The protesting may look old and white, but, people from the black community, latino community, asian, native peoples, LGBTQ+ communities, Veterans, formally educated and working class are watching and waiting to see if we follow through this time. We have to win for the children and the future of this country.

[Sneederbunk]

11. Doing what is right is not fools gold.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. Perhaps this comparison means more to people who followed the Anthony case closely

But as far as I can tell, that was a problem of physical evidence, rather than of many witnesses who must be judged according to how intimidated or reliable they are. So I can't see how Epstein is similar. Also, the Anthony case was one of media obsession, whereas this is one that people and politicians care about. The incentive for the Anthony case was "keep this going, it's good copy". With Epstein, there are incentives to get Trump, or others, looking bad.

[Silent Type]

13. It's horrible, but suspect most trumpsters decide he did nothing because none of victims named him, at least recently.

If that happens, I think trump might be toast.

[H2O Man]

14. Respectfully disagree.

The felon has attempted to divert attention from the Epstein files, and a significant number of his Q-anon/maga supporters are furious that he isn't keeping the campaign promise to release them.

[Johonny]

15. Only if Epstein and Trump were secret gay lovers

Do I think any evidence would move the needle on people on this issue. Trump rapes women, was friends with Epstein, good friends. The only people that need a more ob this matter are people that will never see because they chose to be blind.

[Keepthesoulalive]

16. No one thinks he will be punished legally.

But it bothers and frightens him, it won’t go away. Why is he trying so hard with cheap ham handed tricks to make it stop? A lot of maganuts were deep into punishing democrats for sexual assault on children and it was Trump all along it just destroys their sick retribution fantasies. Keep it up this is the only thing that makes him sweat. We have found his weak spot keep attacking.

[Attilatheblond]

19. US legal system may not puinsh him, but if ALL the files/players get out, some pretty powerful men might punish him

He looks terrified. We know he doesn't get to stand for another election, so it is not voters he's afraid of. But he is terrified.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

30. GOOD

That entitled prick should feel fear every second of its worthless life.

[Attilatheblond]

37. He should be scared to the point that his innerard won't stop purging

He should be scared to the point he can't get outta the bathroom except to be taken to hospital, dehydrated and dealing with a terminal chapped ass.

Sorry to be so graphic, but the stunts he pulled today, threatening Congressional members and ordering tax dollars spent on fly overs to drown out and intimidate those women has me a bit more angry than usual.

[allegorical oracle]

17. The grand finale may be if the survivors can assemble a list of people that

each of them can attest to "servicing." Yeah, "he said - she said." But many predicted that would be the outcome of the E. Jean Carrol trial. That's they nifty thing about life -- it's full of surprises.

[Martin Eden]

21. 3 Things... Thing One: Do the Epstein files criminally implicate Trump in any way, possibly sex with a minor?

Thing Two: Will that information be released?

Thing Three: Would there be any consequences to Trump personally or to Republicans politically if Trump is criminally implicated in the released files?


I sincerely doubt any files implicating Trump will be released. More likely they'll release a lot of documents (most of which are already public record) and call that full transparency, but will NEVER release anything implicating Trump.

Then he will proclaim he's been fully vindicated.

[progressoid]

22. Legally, not much will happen.

Politically? It might depress some of the right wing nutter voters who were looking for a bombshell in the files. Of course that means they still care about it in a year. I wish I could be optimistic, but Americans have had a notoriously short attention span.

It does have the advantage of keeping Trump on his heels. He's floundering. So that's good.

[Tommy Carcetti]

23. The problem is...

...if inciting an insurrection against the US Capitol, being found liable for sexual abuse, or being convicted of 34 felonies didn't destroy their image of him, I just don't see this doing it, either.

John Edwards--our one-time Vice Presidential nominee and rising star--cheated on his wife and had a love child, and he remains anathema in the Democratic Party to this day. That's not even close to the worst of Trump's sins.

There's no standards for this guy at all.

I've become so cynical, and I hate it.

[progressoid]

25. Yep.

And a feckless and subservient media doesn't help matters.

I've become so cynical, and I hate it.

Agreed. I'll drink to that.

[róisín_dubh]

27. That's because Democrats have morals

John Edwards--our one-time Vice Presidential nominee and rising star--cheated on his wife and had a love child, and he remains anathema in the Democratic Party to this day. That's not even close to the worst of Trump's sins.

Republicans unfortunately have fuck all except evil where their minds should be.

[mackdaddy]

24. Trump currently has TOTAL command over Republicans in Congress. This could weaken that.

Trump has the Republicans in both houses so cowed that they will go along with any BullShit he pulls.

If the snapshots Michael Wolff describes of teenage school girls sitting topless on Trump's lap come out, of if there is actual video of Trump assaulting the 13year old girl known as Katy Johnson who withdrew her lawsuits due to death threats, He will loose some of his iron fist control.

A handful have already peel off in demanding the files actually be released with the discharge petition.

So no, I do not agree. Other than the Grim Reaper himself, the Epstein files have been the only thing that has affected Teflon Don in any way.

[Attilatheblond]

40. Maybe a handful of GOP toadies on the Hill will realize they can neuter the rat and never have to deal with him again

It would only take a few in the House and a few in the Senate, and he is GONE.

Frankly, I think JD's bosses will pull the plug on Felon before it even comes to that. The writing is on the wall and they are not stupid men. Immoral and evil, yes, but not stupid.

At the very least, I don't see the UK going thru with having the crazy man to tea.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

26. There are a good number of Qanon supporters in the Maga base who care about this issue

A good percentage of trump supporters are QAnon idiots and Epstein is a big deal to these nutcases. Pursing this issue will affect these QAnon idiots.

Link to tweet

A lot of you may be mystified as to why DOJ’s withholding of the Epstein files so upsets Trump’s base.

It’s very simple.

👉 Roughly a third of MAGA Republicans qualify as QAnon believers.

👉 QAnon teaches that government, media, and financial elites are Satanists who sex-traffic children.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

28. It already IS a political scandal

I guess it depends upon what you consider fire.

The victims are speaking out. They have a right to be heard and taken seriously. THEY will be the ones to decide what form the fire will take.

There are plenty of witnesses to Epstein's crimes. They gave a press conference earlier today. And there are probably many more who may feel empowered to come forward.

Nothing like the Anthony trial.

[in2herbs]

29. The Epstein files certainly will contribute to the downfall of f45 and others in his regime, but IMO

it will be the election interference lawsuit in Rockland County that will be his gotcha moment. We should be keeping our eyes on that lawsuit. The NY Supreme Court judge in the case will be rendering a decision on dismissal or proceeding on or before Nov. 11. Those are not the only options available to her. She can remand asking Smart Tech for clarification on some evidence.

[1WorldHope]

33. You won't get a rec from me.

Trump has raped many young girls in his life. I've read these stories. How many live witnesses will feel safer coming out because these women took this chance? I think most men and some women would be shocked how many girls are sexually abused long before they are 18. This country is so patriarchal that it keeps it's eyes closed tight about it. This country won't ever elect a woman partially because of what women have to say.
I hope this does ruin Trump but if it doesn't, it's not because he is innocent, and this story needs to be heard, digested and understood by every man and boy in this country.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

42. .

[Scrivener7]

34. I do disagree. One, because pursuing this is the right thing to do. And two because

every action Cankles has taken, every word he has spoken about the Epstein files tells us that he is terrified of the prospect of them becoming public.

He is telling us loud and clear that he feels this will bring him down.

[Strelnikov_]

35. He certainly is acting like a perp

If anything, it is causing him distress. That is enough to keep pressing the issue.

[bigtree]

39. what are they hiding?

....it's not normal for the president of a party that ran on releasing the files to be calling it a Democrat hoax.

If you listened to the victims today, you might conclude that it's not just about the politics. There's something behind the door that they don't want us to see. Why?

I can imagine, given what I know about the man trying to dissuade us from looking.

[usedtobedemgurl]

44. As a rape survivor and someone whom escaped pedophiles several times

I just cannot abandon these victims. I contend it is just as bad an example to set as it would be to not prosecute former administrations.

The victims went public. They spoke out a out what happened. Even if Trump does not get the punishment he deserves, the victims are making a list. They want justice and are going out on a limb to get it. You can honestly turn to these child rape survivors and tell them you give up? How?

Do you have any idea that that attitude is why more survivors do not come forward? It took me years to convince my mom her brother came onto me! When she finally gave in, she snapped at me about probably never talking to her brother again, what more did I want? it is things like my mom or the attitude of letting everything go that makes survivors shut the fuck.up. Being raped is tough enough as it is but being driven underground is horrible. I WILK never do that to someone.

I have a brain injury. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? I just cannot imagine anyone on our side lacking the compassion to support people who may be marred for life. SA is a nightmare for adults. It us ten times worse for children. I cannot see how we could abandon these folks who have already been through so much. Is this tongue in cheek? Satire? Help me understand because I am being seriously triggered right now.