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allegorical oracle

(5,987 posts)
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 03:23 PM Sep 6

TPM: Intriguing theory about Mike Johnson's "informant" remark

Talking Points Memo - By Josh Marshall
|September 6, 2025

Yesterday Speaker Mike Johnson was on the Hill talking to reporters running Trump defense on the Epstein files. It sounds like pretty standard stuff — and then he says this: “When he first heard the rumor he kicked [Epstein] out of Mar-a-Lago. He was an FBI informant who tried to take this stuff down.”

snip

Well, this reminded me of something I saw in one of those recent interviews with journalist Michael Wolff, who has been out in the media letting everyone know that he has some large quantity of taped interviews with Epstein from during Trump’s first presidency but before his rearrest and eventual suicide.

Wolff said that Epstein suspected that Trump was the guy who ratted him out to the authorities. So maybe some version of Johnson’s claim isn’t that far-fetched. But of course this isn’t actually exonerating at all. In fact, it implicates Trump about as badly as anything we’ve heard to date.

Epstein was trying to buy a South Florida estate. He brought Trump along to see it one time. A short time later Epstein found out that Trump had gone behind his back and placed a higher and ultimately successful bid on the property. He’d snatched it out from under him with a much higher bid. The problem was that Trump’s entire empire in 2004 was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. It made no sense that Trump was coming up with $41 million to buy this property. Epstein suspected that Trump was acting as a front for a Russian oligarch as a money-laundering scheme. And in fact Trump did purchase and flip the estate two years later to a Russian oligarch named Dmitry Rybolovlev for $95 million, or a profit of over $50 million dollars.

To sum up: Epstein may have planned to turn djt in for money laundering... djt turned Epstein in on pedo charges first.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/is-this-the-hidden-part-of-the-trump-epstein-drama

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TPM: Intriguing theory about Mike Johnson's "informant" remark (Original Post) allegorical oracle Sep 6 OP
Turning somebody in is far away from being an undercover informer. Bernardo de La Paz Sep 6 #1
I'll say it again dflprincess Sep 6 #3
Next qu: How did Moses "know" tRump was an "informer". Does Moses have insider info? If not, shut him up. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 6 #2
That's exactly the same question I have. How does Johnson supposedly know this? JoseBalow Sep 6 #12
The same Johnson who has to team w an app w his son to keep from watching porn. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 6 #16
Somehow Johnson learned that djt turned on Epstein -- not about "stealing' spa allegorical oracle Sep 6 #14
Johnson wouldn't say that without drumpf's blessing and permission JoseBalow Sep 6 #17
"You can't tell what you don't know." Ocelot II Sep 6 #4
Can't have both, right? EarthAbides Sep 6 #5
No. niyad Sep 6 #11
Plausible that djt didn't expect Johnson to ever blurt out the informant bit. allegorical oracle Sep 6 #15
Really Timewas Sep 6 #6
Ok, if that is true, produce the FBI FD-209 form Jarqui Sep 6 #7
Interesting stuff proud patriot Sep 6 #8
I wish Epstein had made a deal with the FBI to Ilsa Sep 6 #9
Epstein made a sweetheart deal with Florida Johonny Sep 6 #18
Yeah, that DA that now works for Krasnov. nt Ilsa Sep 6 #20
So how do you connect those dots with Maxwell? Raven123 Sep 6 #10
There's a difference between being a "rat" and being a "snitch" JoseBalow Sep 6 #13
If this was the whole story, obviously Johonny Sep 6 #19
Exactly. Trump was an opportunistic snitch, not an informant. SunSeeker Sep 7 #21

Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
1. Turning somebody in is far away from being an undercover informer.
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 03:33 PM
Sep 6

Turning-in is a one-time event. Being an informer is a long duration sequence of events.

I think you are right, Moses Johnson will hang his "informer" claim on the "turning-in" hook.

dflprincess

(29,083 posts)
3. I'll say it again
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 03:36 PM
Sep 6

If Trump was an informant it's because he cut a deal to rat Epstein out in exchange for immunity from prosecution.

Bernardo de La Paz

(60,320 posts)
2. Next qu: How did Moses "know" tRump was an "informer". Does Moses have insider info? If not, shut him up. . . . . nt
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 03:36 PM
Sep 6

JoseBalow

(8,913 posts)
12. That's exactly the same question I have. How does Johnson supposedly know this?
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 06:03 PM
Sep 6

That would be my follow-up question.

allegorical oracle

(5,987 posts)
14. Somehow Johnson learned that djt turned on Epstein -- not about "stealing' spa
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 06:22 PM
Sep 6

employees -- but perhaps over a real estate deal. If Johnson asked djt about it, odds are good that djt made up a story about being an informant.

JoseBalow

(8,913 posts)
17. Johnson wouldn't say that without drumpf's blessing and permission
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 07:30 PM
Sep 6

This is something drumpf is trying to plant, floating another bullshit story to see if it gains traction.

It's typical of him to try to paint himself as some kind of hero to distract from his culpability and involvement. And he lacks any self-awareness of how obvious and pathetic that looks to everyone else who isn't kissing his ass and is on to his shtick.

He is a legend in his own mind.

Ocelot II

(128,290 posts)
4. "You can't tell what you don't know."
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 03:40 PM
Sep 6

If he was an informant that meant he knew what Epstein was up to. And much of the time, informants (or percipient witnesses) are coconspirators who roll on their associates in exchange for immunity - did Trump roll on Epstein to avoid prosecution along with him for sex trafficking and money laundering? Is that why Trump doesn't want the complete Epstein files released? And did Johnson just roll on Trump, accidentally or otherwise? Does he actually know something or was he just making shit up to try to save Trump's ass?

EarthAbides

(403 posts)
5. Can't have both, right?
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 03:59 PM
Sep 6

Either it is a hoax spun by the democrats or the fascist pig is an informant. If it is a hoax, how can you be an informant? If you are an informant, how can it be a hoax? Do they ever think this stuff through?

Timewas

(2,576 posts)
6. Really
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 04:53 PM
Sep 6

One doesn't exclude the other. I would not be surprise at all to find that they were close as hell until t-rump didn't get his way about something and decided to rat him out, loyalty is not big on t-rumps agenda...

Jarqui

(10,784 posts)
7. Ok, if that is true, produce the FBI FD-209 form
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 05:18 PM
Sep 6

that is used by FBI agents to record their contacts with unofficial criminal informants

or whatever other FBI documents that recorded this.

And the time stamped backup media of scans of this evidence to substantiate it was not just created.

There is nothing classified with those facts as the Speaker of the House has already revealed it. They can redact classified info in the report/form if there is any. Trump was not an elected official at the time so he shouldn't have any classified info.

Since Trump allegedly did this, those reports or references to them (that an informant claimed " xxx ...&quot should have been turned over to Epstein's defense team and probably Ghislaine Maxwell's as the prosecution is supposed to reveal what evidence they had against the criminals. Epstein is dead. Trump has disclosed he was an informant against Epstein so there are no excuses to not disclose what Trump told the FBI. If Maxwell's team didn't not get them, she can appeal her conviction.

Among other adjectives, we can now add "rat" to describe the most decrepit pig to ever work in the Oval office.

Johonny

(25,070 posts)
18. Epstein made a sweetheart deal with Florida
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 09:58 PM
Sep 6

And only after it finally broke with the public did the awful nature of the deal lead to his second arrest.

Raven123

(7,313 posts)
10. So how do you connect those dots with Maxwell?
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 05:58 PM
Sep 6

If Trump knew about Epstein, you can’t convince me he didn’t know about Maxwell.

JoseBalow

(8,913 posts)
13. There's a difference between being a "rat" and being a "snitch"
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 06:06 PM
Sep 6

drumpf has "rat" written all over him.

Johonny

(25,070 posts)
19. If this was the whole story, obviously
Sat Sep 6, 2025, 10:02 PM
Sep 6

Trump would have released the files. So this isn't the whole story or maybe any part of it. Although the Wolf story is likely true and the actual reason they had a falling out.

SunSeeker

(57,255 posts)
21. Exactly. Trump was an opportunistic snitch, not an informant.
Sun Sep 7, 2025, 01:07 AM
Sep 7

Heather Cox Richardson reiterated this:

Yesterday, talking to reporters about the Epstein files, House speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) said that Trump was “an FBI informant to try to take this stuff down.” The idea that Trump was secretly working to bring Epstein down is common fare among conspiracy theorists, but as Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo suggests, Johnson’s embrace of it might well be an attempt to spin material in the files before it becomes public.

Marshall notes that journalist Michael Wolff, who interviewed Epstein at length during Trump’s first presidency, says that Epstein suspected it was Trump who told the authorities about his systemic sexual assault of girls. But if so, Marshall explains, this is damning rather than exonerating.

It’s pretty well known that Trump and Epstein had a falling out in 2004 after Trump went behind Epstein’s back to buy an estate in South Florida that Epstein wanted. But at the time, Trump was headed toward bankruptcy, and it was not clear where he was getting the money to buy the estate.

Marshall calls attention to a recent interview in which Wolff said that Epstein suspected Trump was laundering money for a Russian oligarch—and indeed, Trump did flip the property to a Russian oligarch for a profit of more than $50 million a few years after buying it—and threatened to sue Trump, bringing the money laundering to light. At that point, the Epstein investigation began.

According to Wolff, Epstein believed Trump had notified the police about what was going on at Epstein’s house, which he knew because he was a frequent visitor. Marshall speculates that Johnson mentioned that Trump was an informant because that information could well be in the files the Department of Justice has, and they’re trying to spin it ahead of time to make it sound like Trump was a hero.

But both Wolff and Marshall note that if indeed Trump turned the FBI onto Epstein, it shows he knew what was taking place at Epstein’s properties.

Johnson’s claim that Trump was an FBI informant suggests Trump’s team is worried that as more and more people get access to the files, it will be increasingly difficult to hide what’s in them. Trump's demand for Republicans’ loyalty suggests that at least some of them are starting to recalculate it. And that, in turn, might have something to do with why he is putting troops in the streets.

https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/september-6-2025?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

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