Duh!!!! Sharing in case anyone else was as dense as I was.

[LAS14]

I've always felt uneasy about the use of "undocumented" instead (I thought) of "illegal." It sounded like special pleading. And then, yesterday, I put it all together. It is not "illegal" to enter the United States any way you can to claim asylum. After you've claimed asylum, you go through a process to gain, you hope, documents. Official status to remain here and, hopefully, enter a path to citizenship. So "undocumented" is, indeed, the correct term. I had all the pieces, just didn't put them together.

Now, for sure, some people that are claimin asylum are doing so illegitimately. But, until their case is heard, we don't know that.

I know most of you DUers have been clear about that all along, but maybe a few more need to hear it.

I do, though, think the law needs to be changed, or the staffing at the border for hearing cases needs to be vastly increased.

Another thing I learned. The right's resistance to "fixing" things hinges on the fact that the census counts people, not citizens. They literally do want to get rid of all those people increasing the chance of democratic congressional districts. It's not a matter of people taking jobs, or even racism. It's pure politics.

[Walleye]

1. They would be better off, concentrating on popular policies and candidates

Reducing your own population is not something nation leaders should do. They stand in line they fill out forms. They go through security checks and they get a court date. I don’t see how they can keep calling them illegal.

[Sogo]

2. The Democrats have been angling for increased staffing for hearing cases at the border, like forever!

That's one of the biggest snags with getting cooperation from the Rs.

[Wounded Bear]

10. There have been two or three comprehensive immigration bills over the last 15 years or so...

All shot down by republicans who would rather keep the problem open and festering to use as campaign issues.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. The "illegal" appelation is considered demeaning and dehumanizing. No person is illegal.

And even if they came in without documentation and without claiming asylum, it's a civil matter, not a criminal one.

[ananda]

4. Absolutely. No human is, by nature, "illegal."

That is calling them criminals before they've ever
committed a crime.

[Silent Type]

5. When I reply to white wingers on local websites, I usually say something like "Good people missing a paper or two."

Ticks them off.

Then, point out it's usually a misdemeanor. By then they are showing their true hatred for brown people missing a paper or two.

[haele]

16. Hell, It's not just immigrants that have documentation issues, anyone with, say ADHD might not have papers..

I have a job-hopping childhood friend who is in the habit of speaking with an exaggerated British Columbian accent (she thinks it's Boho Posh, her favorite style)
She's always seems to be scrambling to get a replacement Social Security card, Passport, Marriage Certificate, Divorce paperwork, Certifications and transcripts, and Diplomas whenever she gets a new job or when she has to provide identification paperwork.
She's always going to "Put them back in the family safe" but noooo - she leaves important paperwork in the car, or in her big purse after she leaves HR and goes out to lunch or dinner to celebrate, forgets about them for a few weeks, and her papers just "disappear".
The only ID I know of she hasn't lost several times over the past 45 years is her Driver's Licence.
If she gets stopped and asked for ID under the the current administration, she could be targeted as being here while Canadian...and she's a rather well off white woman.
That might spare her -now. But she's a bit of an excitable leftist, and uppity liberal citizens are next on the list.

[Bluesaph]

6. Thank you for how you explained this

I’ve been trying and failing to explain this in clear terms to people I debate with.

These people are not here “illegally”!!!

The only ones who legitimately are illegal are the ones who are here by overstaying their legal visas.

[InstantGratification]

12. even that isn't a criminal matter on the first offense

It is just a civil infraction punishable by a fine and deportation. It is only criminal the first time if done in conjunction with another offense like theft or assault.

[mopinko]

7. the system is broken on purpose. that's how the oligarchs want it.

if they started busting ceo’s instead of peons, the profess wd b fixed almost over night. they want frightened workers.

[Jilly_in_VA]

8. There is also the Native American viewpoint

No one is illegal on stolen land. You could look at it that way.

[SWBTATTReg]

9. This is so ironic, that in the beginning days of this republic, that literally everybody was undocumented, until laws,

etc. all got updated (and yet today, repugs still won't pass a comprehensive immigration bill, for they want the issue to fester to help them in their elections).

The ultimate hypocrites.

[mdbl]

11. When a foreign person is working and not reporting

or they have a Visa that has expired and haven't applied for renewal, it becomes illegal.

[Lonestarblue]

13. Republicans do not want to count anyone who is not a citizen because it hurts Democratic representation.

Six of every 10 undocumented persons lives in 20 metropolitan areas, most of them in blue states or major cities (lije Austin, Dallas, Houston) in red states. While some red areas might lose a bit of population counts, blue states and areas would lose more. The goal, as always, is to prevent democracy from functioning.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/03/11/us-metro-areas-unauthorized-immigrants/

[EdmondDantes_]

14. learning and being willing to change is a good thing.

[ShazzieB]

15. I agree, except for one small quibble.

They literally do want to get rid of all those people increasing the chance of democratic congressional districts. It's not a matter of people taking jobs, or even racism. It's pure politics.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as "pure" politics in this instance. I think racism and politics are so inextricably intertwined here that it's not possible to completely separate them. I also don't believe they really care about people taking jobs so much as the color of those people, which brings us right back to racism.

But this is a very small quibble. On the whole, we are on exactly the same wavelength!

[LeftInTX]

17. Here is the US Citizenship and immigration Services glossary

https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary

Many of these terms have been around since the 19th century, hence common language tries to modernize it. However, when going through legal proceedings, those are the terms that are used in courts.

https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-9-73000-immigrant-violations-passport-and-visa#9-73.200#9-73.200
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1911-8-usc-1325-unlawful-entry-failure-depart-fleeing-immigration