Some Gun Owners DESERVE to Lose Their Guns

[Douva]

The people pushing the petition to deport Piers Morgan deserve to lose their right to keep and bear arms . . . and their right to vote . . . and possibly their right to procreate.

If somebody challenges your right to do something and you respond by challenging that person's right to challenge you, you've already lost.

There are rational, intelligent arguments to be made, but most gun rights activists aren't making them.



These three videos illustrate why legislatively mandating smaller magazines for semiautomatic firearms won't lower the death toll in mass shootings:

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This is an excerpt from the official report of the Virginia Tech Review Panel (http://www.governor.virginia.gov/tempcontent/techPanelReport-docs/FullReport.pdf):

"The panel also considered whether the previous federal Assault Weapons Act of 1994 that banned 15-round magazines would have made a difference in the April 16 incidents. The law lapsed after 10 years, in October 2004, and had banned clips or magazines with over 10 rounds. The panel concluded that 10-round magazines that were legal would have not made much difference in the incident. Even [revolvers] with rapid loaders could have been about as deadly in this situation."

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The Norris Hall massacre at Virginia Tech lasted between 10 and 12 minutes. During that time, the gunman fired approximately 174 rounds, killing 30 people and wounding 17 others. If his average reload time was three seconds, which is pretty easy to accomplish, the use of 10-round magazines instead of 15-round magazines would have increased his total shooting time by less than twenty seconds.

[loyalkydem]

1. Some of these gun owners scare the living daylights out of me.

[ileus]

2. All the old AWB did was bring the 45ACP back from the dead.

Most shooters figured if they were gonna be limited to 10 round in the mag, those 10 should be 45's.

By the time the ban expired the 45 was back in vogue again.

And it's not slowed down since, only a few companies make "hi cap" 45's while the majority are still in the 8-12 range.

Long live the 45.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. I am old school. For defensive use, I have always preferred a 1911A

[ileus]

4. I grew up in the 80's so the 9mm was king of the hill

back then...

I love my 45, but it's a budget Taurus and not reliable enough for SD. I depend on my M&P or sig for that purpose.

I'm hoping to get a full sized 45 in the coming year for home defense.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. I started shooting my dad's at military ranges when I was around 13 in the 60s

Old habits die hard. It has never failed me when I needed it.

[ileus]

7. I come from a fud family...if it wasn't for hunting my family had no interest.

The only pistol my father had while I still lived at home was a hi-standard he used to shoot rabbits.

It wasn't until he was 55 or older before he owned a SD pistol of any kind...

he's 82 now.

[LiberalMadeline]

8. sa

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0306.pdf

Crime rates have been getting lower ever since the first AWB was lifted. Why do people even think it's a good idea?

[Zoeisright]

10. Because mass murders went down with AWB was in effect.

The number of mass shootings per year has doubled since the ban expired.

Why don't people think?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-banning-assault-weapons-in-one-post/

[Douva]

12. There is a huge hole in the argument that mass shootings have doubled since the AWB expired

Why would lifting the ban cause mass shootings to increase? I could understand if you were arguing that it caused mass shootings to result in more fatalities per shooting; however, because there was no change in the overall availability of guns (including many guns that were virtually identical to their pre-ban cousins), why would it result in MORE shootings?

As the above chart shows, assault weapons are no more lethal or effective than other semiautomatic weapons if your objective is to kill a lot of people in a short period of time.

[_Liann_]

9. Sociopath Control, not Gun Control

Sociopaths are common and scary.

One in every thirteen houses has one living in it, maybe yours.

Sociopaths are portrayed in media, SLAUGHTER OF THE LAMBS movie for example as easily detectable madmen far outside normal behaviors. But the BTK killer held a steady job, raised a family, donated to his family church and led a cub scouts troop, while for decades he slipped out and killed victims in their homes. Ted Bundy was well liked, steady employed most of the time, a popular person with a steady girlfriend, a republican fundraiser volunteer, but he was known to murder 30, and near his execution promised to give details on "hundreds" of additional victims if they delayed the electric chair.

Officially known as ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER, Sociopaths may be the most common killers, but Paranoid Schizophrenics constitute a sizable block, with Narcissistic Personality Disorders probably accounting to a great number of the murder-suicides, familicides and sudden rage killings when their world is shaken and they can't see themselves as the hero of their story any longer.

Of these, the sociopaths are the planners, like James Holmes the Aurora Colorado Theater Shooter. He kept his plans secret while having explosive fireworks bombs and thousands of rounds of ammunition delivered to his home and workplace, even while seeing a psychological therapist.

Adam Lanza was a planner: he attempted to buy weapons that week, reported to have reconnoitered the school the day before, taped three spare 30-round clips to his gun plus the one loaded, and destroyed his computer and attacked his hard drive to destroy evidence.

We need to pressure media and our social circles to be more aware of the basic definitions and symptoms of these illnesses. It is our job as the first line of defense in society to know when somebody in the 13 houses closest to us is going off soon.

Hollywood celebs are making gun control PSAs to suggest making guns harder to get, but really we need a better plan for making them harder to get to specific groups of individuals who are hiding their mental illness well and passing by us on a regular basis.

We need TV and movies to better portray the actual symptoms rather than some caricature for a James Bond or Die hard plot, It may be a little harder on the writers, but society needs a better understanding of what the threat is and where it is coming from.

We also need to devise ways that people hitting the courtrooms time and again, which is one symptom of sociopathy, Anti-Social behaviors and contempt of society standards, gets databased for background checks. DMV has points for drivers -- too many points and your license is suspended. We need a points system that gets not only a background check black mark, but a warrant to check the known residence to take out all the guns when they get too many points as a lawbreaking anti-social.

We need to control the nuts before they become gun nuts, before they become killers.

[Zoeisright]

11. Good luck with that, sparky.

There is no way to predict what someone is going to do. There are all kinds of privacy laws in place that prevent anyone from being marked or taken out of society unless they are a clear and present threat to themselves or others. However, there is an easy way to make their killing sprees much more difficult to accomplish:

TAKE AWAY THE FUCKING GUNS.

God. The stupid. It burns.

[laundry_queen]

13. Actually

very few mass shootings are committed by sociopaths. Planning has nothing to do with being a sociopath. Severely mentally ill and schizophrenic people can plan things too.

Sociopaths are far more likely to be serial killers (like BTK and Ted Bundy). Also, sociopaths are far less likely to commit suicide, which often happens in mass shootings. Mass shootings are not the same thing as serial murders making your comparison between BTK & Ted Bundy versus Adam Lanza & James Holmes is laughable.

BTW - AsPD is often thought to be caused by a genetic brain defect or deficiency but people with AsPD know the difference between right and wrong - they just don't care. They also have a firm grasp on reality. People with paranoid schizophrenia often have their whole perception of reality radically altered, so their ability to distinguish between right and wrong may be impaired. People with AsPD are notoriously resistant to treatment (hell, there isn't really even any treatment for them, treatment meant for other PDs or regular therapy will make them WORSE), where schizophrenics often respond to medication.

And estimates are around 4% of the population consists of sociopaths - the vast majority are not killers. They may wreak havoc in other ways, but a small percentage are killers and an even smaller percentage are serial killers (usually serial killers are sociopaths who have also endured horrendously abusive childhoods). Heck, many aren't even criminals, since the sociopath is usually highly driven by self interest, and, let's face it, most would rather stay out of prison. Only the dumb ones are the ones who end up in the courts over and over again. The smart ones know how to manipulate the system to their own benefit without crossing the legal lines and getting themselves in trouble. Kind of like a 'good' internet troll. So your 'plan' would miss a huge percentage of sociopaths.

Besides, every country in the world, in a remarkably even spread around the world, has sociopaths. Yet the US is tops in mass murders and gun deaths. Perhaps, just perhaps, it's the guns.

[NashvilleLefty]

14. So, what SHOULD we do?

I'm listening. I keep hearing gun advocates telling us what was wrong with the AWB, but I haven't heard any suggestions to make it better.

What SHOULD we do?