General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRachel Bitecofer: We Didn't Start The Fire
https://thecycle.substack.com/p/we-didnt-start-the-fireLets set the table with what the research actually says, not what the right-wing infotainment machine screams. Political science has been measuring polarization for decades and the verdict is not that it came from Democrats.
Scholars have been warning for more than a decade that our polarization is asymmetric. Mann & Ornstein called it out plainly; Grossmann & Hopkins explained the structural whyideological Republicans versus group-interest Democrats create different incentives, media diets, and tactics. Thats your who started the fire origin story in the literature, not on cable.
If youve been alive for the last twenty years, youve lived the asymmetric script in real time. Republicans normalized calling Democrats socialists and communists as baseline branding while supercharging moral panic politicslately by conflating gender-affirming care with mutilating children.
After Floridas Dont Say Gay law, use of the groomer slur exploded on social platforms, and major right-wing outlets now casually label mainstream Democratic positions as genital mutilation. This isnt fringe; its the partys communication bloodstream.
That was the currency that made Charlie Kirk a very wealthy man and though I mourn his death and the pain his poor family is going through, we also cant white wash the fact that Charlie Kirk held racist, sexist, and bigoted views and used his significant power and influence to radical college students.
Kirk was a free speech advocate, but that speech was hate speech.
*snip*
Deuxcents
(27,715 posts)With my family, its like walking on eggshells hoping to not trigger the conversation. I pretty much choose my friends so that is not a problem but new acquaintances are few since Im older now. Life was so much easier 20 years ago..
elleng
(141,926 posts)Solly Mack
(97,271 posts)SunSeeker
(58,374 posts)Bev54
(13,517 posts)Free speech only goes one way for these aholes.
paleotn
(22,747 posts)It's not like a host of US citizens haven't been pretty damn blunt about their hatred of Kirk.
paleotn
(22,747 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(8,037 posts)Jon Stewart made fun of them and their research. Their book went against his both sides are bad beliefs.
ancianita
(43,364 posts)"... You want proximate cause for todays rhetorical temperature? Its the ecosystem that taught millions that Democrats are an existential enemy, not a loyal opposition. That is why thousands of Republicans stormed into our nations Capitol building to hang Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence.
That same ecosystem radicalized audiences on COVID, vaccines, electionseverything. I saw it up close in 2022 when I debated Charlie Kirk on his show. I watched a crowd fully convinced the vaccine killed people because their movement told them sorelentlessly, lucratively. And now, in the wake of Kirks killing, the same machine is already trying to flip the script and claim our rhetoric is the real problem.
Let me be crystal. Calling out authoritarianism and proto-fascism is not escalation; its diagnosis. The academic case has been on the shelf for years: Republicans moved further and faster right; the partys incentive structure rewards constitutional hardball; the media arm radicalizes the base with moral-panic narratives. Pretending its symmetric is a luxury belief we cant afford.
And because I can already hear the bad-faith replySo your side never does anything wrong?
Of course they do. We do plenty wrong but when we do we admit it and make changes, we dont ask people to not believe their lying eyes.
Democrats pass bills. Republicans pass torches.
A gay Democratic governor is honoring Charlie Kirk and his 1st Amendment right to be a bigot for profit by lowering Oregons flags at half mast.
When Democratic state senator Melissa Hortman was assassinated by a Trump supporter, she didnt receive half staff flags and a Presidential Medal of Freedom, she received a sick joke from a sitting U.S. senator.
One sides excesses mostly show up as intraparty squabbles over how far or fast to move; the other sides excesses show up as fake electors, purges of civil servants and the FBI, and routine defiance of lawful process. Courts, inspectors general, and congressional investigators have receipts. We didnt choose this terrain. We adapted to it.
So yes, were going to keep calling it what it is. Were going to keep reminding voters who lit the match and whos been fanning it. Because if you dont name the threat, you cant build the counter-narrative that neutralizes it.
If Republicans want the rhetoric to ratchet down, theres an easy test: stop lying about Democrats being socialists in a country that doesnt even have national health care, stop telling people liberals support mutilating children, stop trying to nullify elections you lose, stop using public office to make billions, , and stop breaking the law because you think courts are for other people.
When they do, well meet them in the reality-based middle.
We didnt start the fire, but we have to be the ones that put it out."
I hope MSNBC and Lawrence O'Donnell (who first named her as his go-to predictor of elections) post a lot of YouTube videos of her doing variations of commentary on this.
Yep. There's a big difference between free speech and hate speech.
hueymahl
(2,906 posts)Murder is never acceptable, and if you think someone should be killed or brought it on himself because of his politics, you should really think about whether you are a good person.
dpibel
(4,015 posts)Quote me the part that says, or even intimates, that murder is acceptable.
Or that Kirk should have been killled.
Or even that he brought in on himself.
I don't think you can.
SunSeeker
(58,374 posts)This shit doesn't happen in other countries like it does here. Charlie Kirk and his ilk created our gun culture, "2nd Amendment remedies" and hateful division. They are to blame for it and also the victims of it.
ancianita
(43,364 posts)At all.
SunSeeker
(58,374 posts)yellow dahlia
(6,487 posts)Glaisne
(658 posts)since the days of the Moral Majority. I've lived the debasement, and decline of this country at the hands of the right and knew we were heading to where we are today since those days. I believed those people were going to take over and people scoffed, after all what did I know as a teenager. I'm sorry I ended up being right.
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