Hearing people -- even Newsom -- waxing rhapsodic about Kirk's willingness to "debate" is turning my stomach.

[pat_k]

Gish galloping with cherry picked "facts" is not "debate" His "style" of debate was the most insidious way to lie. He "knew" only the bits of history and bible and anything else that supported his vile conclusions. He was also smart enough to know that he was creating a foundation that is a lie because it excludes 80% of reality.

When arguing with another person, he flooded them with his carefully selected bits as fast as possible, then quickly moved to a new flood of cherry-picked "facts." This "style" creates an utterly false pretense of "knowing a lot" and "winning," when in fact the person knows they are offering only bits that support their conclusions and absolutely nothing more. The object is to simply steamroll over any actual facts offered in opposition with a new flood of bullshit.

When offering his monologues, he set up and tore down carefully constructed straw man positions.

While I grieve the manner of his death as a tragic reflection of the intolerable level of gun violence in our nation – which is 11 TIMES the number of gun deaths per capita in other high-income nations, driven primarily by a firearm homicide rate that is 25 TIMES that of comparable nations* – I do not grieve the loss of a man who called for some "amazing patriot" to bail out Paul Pelosi’s attacker. I do not grieve the loss of a man who was hellbent on making sure this nation did NOTHING to reduce the number of gun deaths.

*2015 data

[Silent Type]

1. Back to eating Newsom for understanding everyone in California is not a Democrat.

[pat_k]

2. I believe Newsom is flat wrong in his statement on how to "honor" Kirk.

I am a member of Braver Angels and occasionally participate in Living Room Conversations events.

I dedicate hours each month to finding ways to honestly connect across seemingly insurmountable divides. But the key word there is "honestly."

I have had productive conversations with conservatives who are speaking honestly from the heart. Asking genuinely curious questions -- not "gotcha questions" -- is key. Listening, fully, is key. Sharing personal experiences that led to this or that set of beliefs is key. Going beyond tossing conclusions at each other is key.

Charlie Kirk NEVER engaged in an honest, truly heartfelt, curious conversation in his life.

He was a propagandists and liar to his core.

That is not "engagement." His purpose was transparently to humiliate and subjugate. And I personally think Newsom has brains enough to recognize it.

I enthusiastically applaud the productive things Newsom has done, and is doing. On this (and on some other things) I don't think he is being genuine. And if genuine, he is misguided.

[Silent Type]

3. I get it, but I think Newsom is focused on a much bigger prize/goal than bashing Kirk. I applaud that.

[OC375]

4. Debating is Done

I’m doubtful anyone is interested anymore. Zero-sum politics is about carrot/stick, not point/counterpoint.

[ImNotGod]

5. If they had a brain they will realize there is nothing to debate, you are either a supporter of democracy or

you are a fascist racist who makes big bucks spreading lies. You are good or fucking evil, what the hell is there to debate?

[GoodRaisin]

6. Yeah, spreading lies and hatred is not "debating".

There’s been a lot of horseshit said on M$M and Social Media the last couple days. Hopefully it will die down soon.