I think the Hegseth/Trump MAGA rally staged for stone-faced military brass may be more damaging than anything to date.

[pat_k]

Last edited Thu Oct 2, 2025, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

First off, how could Hegseth and 47 really be so clueless about the apolitical professionalism of the military? How could they not know that military brass and other officers do not applaud or cheer for civilian elected officials during speeches to uphold the tradition of political neutrality?

As I understand it, it is a tradition intended to ensure that military loyalty is to the Constitution and the nation, rather than to any specific political party or leader.

I couldn't watch the horror show, but reportedly, Hegseth paused for reaction to what he apparently believed would be applause lines. And 47 nervously said something like "you can applaud... or not"

From these reports it appears they had NO CLUE everything they said would be met with stoic silence. If they had had a clue, I don't think they would have staged this thing.

But how could they be so clueless? It's not like the tradition is some sort of secret.

For viewers who didn't know stoic silence was the norm, watching those top brass listening to the MAGA rally propaganda with stone (and from photos, some angry) faces must have been striking. Particularly when you add in 47's nervous reaction to the silence and Hegseth's pauses for reaction.

I have a feeling that this event may end up being far more damaging to the 47 regime than almost anything so far. I think a MAGA rally stripped of the emotional reaction lays bare a reality. When 47 is met with cheers, viewers who aren't predisposed to despise the man can be pulled in. (Look how people respond! Must be something to it.)

Strip that away, and you are left with a litany of evil, vile, stuff with no "audience response track" to cue you about how your are supposed to respond. I also think the non-verbal message communicated by those stone faces is powerful, by itself. Without knowing exactly why, the "faithful" who watched this today -- or who see clips -- may find themselves troubled by seeds of doubt.

And remember, this is now the third in a series of disasters (the pained looks during his speech in the UK and the muted response to his disastrous U.N. speech).

I'm not quite sure why, but it brings to mind "The President's Speech" in Oliver Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat.

If you aren't familiar, The President's Speech is fascinating story of how people with different types of aphasias responded to a speech from Reagan. Some roared with laughter, others were simply bewildered ("'He is not cogent" ). Sacks concludes this:

Here then was the paradox of the President's speech. We normals - aided, doubtless, by our wish to be fooled, were indeed well and truly fooled ('Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur'). And so cunningly was deceptive word-use combined with deceptive tone, that only the brain-damaged remained intact, undeceived.

I think this story came to mind because it is about how removing certain "layers" that are part of normal perception can lay bare a truth. In this case, "normal" perception of MAGA demagogues comes with a "response track." Replace that with stone-faced, high-ranking, responsible, men and women -- and perhaps some reality breaks through.

You can read Sacks' "The President's Speech" here:

https://plantainclan.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Oliver-Sacks-The-PresidentS-Speech.pdf

[H2O Man]

1. It damaged them.

Recommended.

[raccoon]

24. I hope to Dog you are right.

[Qutzupalotl]

2. It reminded me of the squeaky wheel tank from his parade.

Comical in its underwhelm.

[pat_k]

13. Oh no. Now I've got that rhythmic whistle-y squeaking in my head as an earworm!

And seeing clips of it passing in front of the empty bleachers was icing on the cake.

[Pachamama]

16. Me too!

As I read that - the immediate sound and the image came to mind

[pat_k]

20. Too funny!!

But it really does have an "almost" rhythm to it. Like a little bird that has never actually heard bird song trying to give it a go.

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. That was it!

Watching the clips, that was also the first place my brain went. One of the most entertaining moments of Cabal v2

The empty bleachers in this are just *chefs kiss* (Clip is 0:29)

[Owl]

38. That was great! 🤩

[0rganism]

50. It might be entertaining to have a video of that speech but with the squeaky tank dubbed in for applause lines

Applause lines and ominous threats of various kinds could both do with the squeaky tank treatment. Might be worth a try, Imma poke at it some, up for grabs though if anyone wants to try it.

[Silent Type]

3. Bet a lot there today are reevaluating retirement.

[pat_k]

32. Particularly if they have a command that includes

... divisions that 47 would conceivably deploy against their fellow Americans. Instead knowing they would have to disobey, they may just opt not to be around. Not good for our prospects as a nation if they do take that way out.

Similarly, those in commands with higher probability of being drawn into a conflict overseas may choose to go to avoid being around when called on to commit war crimes because Hegseth is tossing out the rules of engagement.

I just hope that any person of any rank who has a conscience and is truly clear that they must disobey the regime's illegal orders (i.e., not rationalize that the order is somehow legal under whatever obscene theory the regime offers) stays in and carries out their duty to the constitution and this nation.

[C_U_L8R]

4. If the military wasn't against Trump before

It will be now.
Those Generals got the full frontal kovfefe today and tonight they've gotta be wondering "what do I do?"

[pat_k]

11. I'm sure there are "behind the scenes" discussions of how to manage the crisis when 47 actually orders...

... deployment of regular troops against American citizens.

His meaningless Portland "full force" tweet could be ignored, but after today, if they had any doubt that 47 would violate posse comitatus, they have doubts no longer.

[Cha]

49. The True Patriots there must

realize that America has A Dangerous Enemy Within and they have to Figure out how to Defeat it.

And, they know their History of what America's Enemies in the Past have done... the Dictators like Hitler who brainwashed the masses to his way of thinking.. Oh and Hitler was only 56 when he killed himself.

Oh the movies that will be made in the future.

[pat_k]

52. Speaking of movies in the future...

If you haven't already seen it, don't miss the last 20 seconds.

[tanyev]

5. Trump and Hegseth believe their own bullshit, and they rarely step outside the bubble of delusion.

That's why they had no clue.

[pat_k]

8. It is mindboggling that no one in their offices was aware of the tradition of non-reaction to electeds/appointeds

Or, if someone was aware, they didn't think to inform 47 or Hegseth that everything they say will be met with silence.

IDK. Maybe someone "in the know" was perfectly happy for them to go out there are face all those stone faces unprepared.

It still seems beyond belief.

But I am glad they staged this because I really do think it is one more big fat rock pushing us closer to a tipping point.

[Skittles]

17. Trump is surrounded by BOOTLICKERS

they only tell him WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR

[obamanut2012]

29. I am sure they knew about it, but they thought the flag officers would ignore it

A VERY few did applaud at the end, but only a handful.

[Srkdqltr]

6. Hopefully it was the best thing to show the military what they are.

[pat_k]

9. And the nation. Take away the "audience response track" and the vile propaganda stands in stark relief.

[msongs]

7. have not seen ONe response by a republican all day. did they all rapture away...

[pat_k]

10. Really? Great! I haven't looked for responses, but silence is Incredibly telling!!

I suspect that they timed this spectacle for the budget deadline to get Democrats in an uproar about what they knew would be APPALLING to any Non-MAGA person in this country. I worried that we were obliging and allowing ourselves to be distracted from the task at hand -- i.e., lighting fires under people with a Republican Sen(s) or Rep to call and write and show up in local offices to do the right thing, extend the enhanced ACA subsidies, repeal the massive Medicaid cuts, and demand the the president stop breaking his oath of office.

Anyway, I'm coming to the conclusion that this is backfiring in a VERY VERY big way on multiple counts.

In addition to the brutal "optics" of all those stone faces as Hegseth and 47 railed at them, there they are, on the day the government is to shut down, and what is the president doing? Trying to look like Geo C. Scott in the movie, perfectly happy to shut down the government -- and even making threats to no only do nothing to ease the pain, but to actually use the shutdown to illegally fire more federal workers and illegally dismantle programs that serve Americans to somehow spite Democrats.

[Uncle Joe]

12. Kicked and recommended

Thanks for the thread pat_k.

[ShazamIam]

14. When Trump was met with silence from the Military leaders. I got up and danced a little jig. nt

[Old Crank]

15. When I was in, a lifetime ago

You could express your political views, but not while in public in uniform.
This meeting became a public event and everyone was in uniform.

That would mean that all the uniformed, active duty, troops he has lined up as a cheering section at rallies could all get punished.

[taxi]

51. True, and let there be little doubt that

the ranks will be reminded of that. Commands will let it be known that any public display is in violation of the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice).

[CentralMass]

18. The country is in deep trouble.

[SunSeeker]

19. 'Could have been an email': Officials balk at Hegseth's generals meeting

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/could-email-officials-balk-hegseths-190322740.html

[DFW]

21. I think our military brass just got a demonstration of the meaning of "enemies, domestic."

They swore an oath to defend the constitution, but it clearly states that POTUS is Commander in Chief of the armed forces, compos mentis or not. As we are facing, with ever increasing certainty, the “not” stage, I’d hate to have their current dilemma. They can’t in good conscience, all resign. If they did, within a week, our entire armed forces would be under the command of present and former Fox Noise personalities, each enthusiastically supported by the entire roster of Congressional Republicans, and each one more clueless than the next. If Trump wanted to bomb Nambia, Hegseth would have planes in the air before any of them realized that there is no such place.

[Champp]

22. They looked weak.

so lame and stupid

[Boomerproud]

23. If you believe in prayer I can only hope this was a huge wake up call.

A long time coming and hopefully not too late.

[democratsruletheday]

25. The more I pray lately...

the worse things seem to get overall in this country. Hate to say it, but it's true. Just a dark time: that's the bad news. The good news is we WILL persevere because we have no other choice.

[pat_k]

35. Yes, we WILL persevere! With Joy as Defiance!

On Joy as Defiance, Robert Arnold
https://youtube.com/shorts/Eibfo6IkBhE

[LetMyPeopleVote]

26. These officers are getting a special medal for yesterday

[obamanut2012]

28. I think they thought the flag officers would clap and whistle and cheer them

As liberators of woke or something.

Both men showed they know zero about how modern military works, and how diversity is good in the ranks. Plus, without women in the military and eh Coast Guard, there would literally not be anywhere close to enough troops to run things.

[pat_k]

37. When 47 said "you can clap" I think he thought they...

....would heed it as a presidential order to set aside whatever tradition was keeping the silent.

If that's what he thought, he certainly got a lesson in his own weakness in the face of military professionalism, tradition, and, we hope, strict adherence to the constitution -- the spirit as well as the letter.

[obamanut2012]

39. Yup, 100% agree

[haele]

41. Yah, the "troops" always clap and cheer at "get together"

When it's a rally event where the CiC or a Congress critter comes down for an award or commissioning ceremony, or to talk about a completed mission, or even just a holiday with the troops
But Officers and Senior NCOs don't clap and cheer at policy or strategy meetings. Those are supposed to be serious and professional events.

[pat_k]

34. By all reports, behind the scenes at DoD, their is...

..widespread upset and resistance and "slow walking" asinine directives. I think this event will step up the "dissatisfaction" (as reporters euphemistically refer to all our anger and dissent).

[electric_blue68]

40. TY the info.

🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

[haele]

42. The GOP political BS is affecting the mission the GOP wants the military to do

Congress is useless, having given up their authority for some stupid reason, and a shallow, transactional, narcissist CEO type administration won't care about funding the actual support needed for the whiz-bang lethality they want to show off.
They are breaking the country like careless 8 year old spoiled brats.

[Torchlight]

31. Idiots really thought they had a baked-in audience approval

Not at all surprised no one stood up to shout "you lie!" as the officers have both strength and professionalism, so that would never be an issue.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

33. Hegseths FAFO met with silence

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1nuiczt/us_secretary_of_war_pete_hegseth_hardly_gets_a/

[pat_k]

36. And therein lies the stupid ignorance.

He paused, expecting laughter, utterly clueless that the generals and admirals, with disciplined adherence to tradition, would meet everything they uttered with silence.

Perhaps they even thought to use this as a test to identify those who clapped and those who did not.

Well, 47 and Hegseth certainly FAFO. Except the found out something they SHOULD have already known.

But I am glad for there ignorance. This was seriously damaging to them.

Between our commitment and growing numbers, and their incompetence, we ARE turning this around.

[blubunyip]

43. Agree that this is serious damage

of their own making. Did the blinders come off some eyes around the country? I hope it's a turning point.

[Jack Valentino]

44. Even if he was in pre-alzheimer's, Ronald Reagan AND/OR his advisors

retained the ability to step back from all their anti-Soviet rhetoric
as well as listen to the voice of the people
to negotiate and sign a nuclear weapons reduction treaty with the USSR--

something that came as a complete surprise to me at the time---
and gave me some respect for him, at least on the issue
of nuclear weapons, if nothing else (and it pretty much was nothing else!)


Trump, on the other hand, seems to sincerely believe all of his own lies....
and his entire cabinet seems to believe them as well!
AND, of course, he's a fucking lunatic, as are most of THEM!

Never ever thought I'd ever say this,
but I'd rather be dealing with Ronald Reagan
than the current demented pedo SQUATTER in the White House!

[pat_k]

47. I hear you. I think we all know what deep trouble the nation is in with this man.

Last edited Thu Oct 2, 2025, 01:46 AM - Edit history (2)

I can't imagine Reagan blatantly, unlawfully, and systematically destroying every agency of the Executive Branch and starving programs enacted by congress by refusing to allocate the funds appropriated by congress.

But the thing is, when there is push back, he backs off. I was so frustrated with the Democrats who voted for the Republican budget. One of them said that she caved because of 47's statement threatening to fire people and completely dismantle "Democratic" programs. First, the Federal employees union had already filed suit to enjoin him because following through on that threat would be completely illegal.

The one lesson more people need to learn with trump is that caving to his bullying threats just invites more bullying. When organizations stand up they win! Many of the firings were reversed in the DOGE wave. And I think some are still being litigated.

Second. He's violating the "take care clause" daily and dismantling agencies ANYWAY. Even if the courageous Democrats in the Senate ultimately give up on repealing any of the Medicaid cuts or getting an extension of the Enhanced ACA subsidies, I will be furious if they let up on forcing Republicans to stand up for the role of Congress in the balance of powers and demand that 47 stop violating his oath and start "taking care" to execute on existing laws and appropriations.

To me that is the real red line and there is no way Republicans can say "We can't afford this" or some shit. Make it about stopping the mafia-style crime spree that is being led from the White House. I fear too few have been on the same page on making a very simple case. And it is a simple case. Our leaders, and all of us, need to learn to say the same things over and over and over.

The president promises to carry out the laws passed by Congress, whether they like them or not. If a president doesn't like a law, they work with congress to change it. It's a crime for a president or the people who work for him to single-handedly end a program Congress created. That's not how our government works.

More thoughts on that in this post and this post.

Yes, daily, people are saying he is violating the constitution, but we have not been hearing the necessary repetition of a simple statement like the one above. Anyway, they can make the shutdown about the fact this nation needs the majority party -- currently the Republicans -- to stand up for THE PEOPLE THEY REPRESENT against an out-of-control, criminal president.

[pat_k]

46. It was, but I don't think many people actually saw it.

This they made a big deal of this. It was a big mystery -- what's gonna happen? I think more tuned in. And I think the it was the impact of the stoic silence of the audience that did the true damage.

[Cha]

48. That's what I've been hoping

Will Happen.

It's apparent the Generals, Admirals, and whomever else was there that they were listening to a Whiny Mad man.. and his Sec of War Crimes wasn't any better.

Wonder how many were sorry they voted for this?

I just saw clips and read about it... I didn't care to watch, either.

Thank you for laying it out so vividly, pat_k.