We just don't have the votes

[Pototan]

Look, I'm as angry as anyone about the state of our country. But changing the subject to a shut down in which the blame is, at best, murky. Every other indication is working against Trump and the Republicans.

We've made our point. Now, we need to take the lead and take the Republicans proposal and negotiate with the government open for 7 weeks. I fully expect to get little, to nothing accomplished for American health ins.

But the Republicans will get the blame for the increase. Schumer will have proved his point by closing the government for a few days. We need to concentrate on winning the upcoming races in November, especially in New Jersey and Virginia.

In order to win and win big in the next year, Americans will have to feel the pain inflicted by Trump and his Republican allies in Congress.

I realize this may not be a popular opinion. But, in the end, we currently don't have the votes. My suggestion is, win elections and get those votes.

[Clouds Passing]

1. Well finally the gop has actually shut down the government. They all must be high.

[Pototan]

3. And place the blame for the shutdown on us

A majority of Americans blame both parties. But any increase in Health Care premiums will fall squarely on the shoulders of Trump and the Republicans.

[Bev54]

39. Polls show that the public is blaming republicans not democrats.

This is on them, no more capitulating.

[Iggo]

2. We tried to negotiate. The republicans said no. And then the republicans shut down the government.

[Blues Heron]

4. It's not a popular opinion because you are telling us to cave. Gee, what a surprise that would be unpopular

[Pototan]

5. Eventually, we have to provide the votes

I just think sooner rather than later. A government shut down hurts the people we're trying to protect, federal employees.

We must always keep in mind that Republicans love a shut down. They want as little government as possible. It's like holding our own kids hostage. Why would the other side care?

[Scrivener7]

10. Why? There are enough republicans to pass this

without us. They can't even get their own people to vote for it. It sucks that much.

So why should we vote for it?

[Pototan]

19. A Fillabuster

requires 60 votes to break in the Senate. There are not 60 Republicans there.

[VMA131Marine]

33. So the solution is easy:

The Republicans must negotiate a compromise we can live with. The onus is on them.

[Pototan]

34. Except they want a shut down

Democrats don't. What's the end game?

[Bev54]

40. The end game is not to increase healthcare payments for millions of Americans, including many republicans.

[Pototan]

44. And if the Republicans ignore that

does the government stay closed indefinitely?

After all, they really don't care if anyone who can't afford it is insured.

[Bev54]

46. And your answer is to just capitulate and then the republicans would continue to push for more and more

If you can't see what happens when people/corporations/politicians capitulate to these fascists then you have not been paying attention. It is time to make a stand and the polls are showing that the majority are supporting the dems on this extremely important issue.

[Pototan]

47. This is not a viable tactic

Closing the government on Republicans is destined to fail. Winning elections is the only way to solve this.

[Bev54]

49. In your opinion.

[VMA131Marine]

43. The end game is not to give up Democratic votes for nothing

when the alternative is a continuation of horrible policies.

If Republicans are going to insist on an absolutist approach to governing then Democrats have no obligation to help them out, nor do they gain any benefit for doing so.

Advocating that Democrats cave on this in return for nothing is defeatism and it will not help next November.

[Tbone421]

6. They are the ones that need the votes.

To say that Democrats just don't have the votes is to misunderstand the situation, IMO. The Republicans are short on votes....Not the Democrats.

[EdmondDantes_]

9. Both sides are short on votes. That's why it requires compromise

Neither side can get what they want without the other. Unfortunately in the tit for tat game, compromise has become a dirty word.

[Scrivener7]

11. The republicans own this government.

If they can't pass it on their own, they need to concede what we want: leave healthcare costs alone and release the Epstein files.

OR strong arm the republicans refusing to vote for it into falling in line, and take the fallout that ensues.

[EdmondDantes_]

14. That's a lot more certain of public opinion than I am

But I also don't agree that it falls entirely on Republicans. If both parties only made one offer, then didn't negotiate, that's split responsibility. Not equally split, but we didn't get to the point of this level of distrust just on Republicans. We started filibustering judicial nominations and then when Republicans did it back, killed the filibuster on lower court justices as an example. Likewise just shrugging our shoulders and giving up on a bunch of states so we have a very narrow path to a Senate majority so we (and Republicans in the northeast but because they dominate more states have a much easier path to a Senate majority), just ignore anyone who isn't on our team rather than being willing to work with people who aren't all in on us.

[Scrivener7]

18. Republicans. Own. This. Government.

They have enough members to pass this on their own.

If they need our help because they can't get enough of their own members to vote for it, that's not our doing. That's their disarray, and it's the fact that this budget sucks.

If they need us, they can ask for help. We'll give it happily, but not for free. And our price is pretty cheap: just don't gouge all Americans on healthcare costs, and fulfill their own promise to release the Epstein files.

Otherwise, they can work it out with their own members.

This is on them.

[EdmondDantes_]

27. They. Literally. Do. Not. Because. Of. The. Filibuster.

Typing. Like. This. Does. Not. Change. That.

I get the urge to blame Republicans for everything, but you can only control what you can control, and you almost always have some agency.

[Groundhawg]

29. Republicans do not have enough votes even if every one of them vote for it.

[Kaleva]

38. There are not 60 Republicans in the Senate

Which is the number needed for the Senate to advance the bill

“Wednesday’s vote marked the third time in two weeks that the House-passed continuing resolution failed to advance on the Senate floor — but it was the first time senators voted on the issue while the government is closed. The measure needed 60 votes to advance and failed 55-45, the same margin as Tuesday’s vote.“
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5531239-senate-funding-bill-shutdown-vote/amp/

[W_HAMILTON]

26. Fuck that. REPUBLICANS entirely own this.

Republicans can change the Senate rules to ram through a Supreme Court nominee for a seat they hijacked, but they can't keep our government open? Our government that they have COMPLETE CONTROL over?

It's on Republicans and only Republicans. If they need Democrats to bail them out, they should acquiesce to the small demand Democrats are asking for in exchange.

[Iggo]

17. We offered to negotiate. They said no. They shut down the government.

[adam_vermont]

7. Yes, it is painful. At some point we have to make a point.

And the r's are not negotiating at all, and they can't be trusted. They aren't spending the money that is in law from last year, illegally. So how can you make any deal? So the move is to cave again and prove that we are weak, even when we are using the only power we have? They don't have the votes either, unless they vote to change the rules. It's time to break things...things are out of control. Funding this bastard of an executive is unethical on its face. They lie about everything, threaten Democrats with military violence calling us terrorists, commit atrocities. Screw em. Let them break it even further. The citizens who still aren't paying attention need to see that things are not normal. We need to shut it down.

[Pototan]

8. I agree with all that

but the most votes wins. In this case 8 votes are needed to open the government. But I'm making the same point over and over again. Trump and the Republicans don't care if the government ever opens again.

[SKKY]

12. As much as I respect Schumer and Jeffries, we're not winning the propaganda battle...

...and whatever they're trying to do isn't sticking. I have no idea why. So, the only thing left to do is to cut some Dems loose, let them pass a CR, and when the ACA credits run out, and healthcare prices spike as they're expected to, beat the Republicans over the head with it for the next 12 months.

[kimbutgar]

37. The media is not pushing the Democratic narrative but the repuke one

I think the Democrats are doing the best they can in this corporate media landscape.

But unfortunately people have to suffer the consequences of republicans controlling all three branches of government. And there is going to be pain to corporations when they start experiencing losing corporate profits and suffer the consequences of repuke government rule. SADLY!

[Maru Kitteh]

13. Pardon my French (or don't)

But seriously. Fuck that noise. Capitulation is *precisely* how we arrived in this situation and can only harm the party and the public further. These are not normal times.

[dwayneb]

15. Would tend to agree with you

We are at war. And in this particular battle it's a face-off. Plenty of armies have retreated and regrouped to fight another battle on another day - and that is what we will need to do in the end here as well. It's just a matter of when.

I am sure that someone in the MAGA camp is doing the math - how many MAGA supporters are using ACA and how many of them will be royally screwed by this change. I think they have concluded that they don't need that voting bloc and they are ready willing and able to dump them in the ditch. Of course a third of them will STILL goose-step to Trump and MAGA I am sure they've anticipated that too.

[quaker bill]

16. More is needed

a token shutdown is insufficient, there actually needs to be inconvenience for large numbers of people. Not necessarily irreparable damage, but the pain needs to extend beyond some civil servants. The token news story will be forgotten in a week or two. If "He gets the Dems to cooperate", he will mark it as a win, and so will his base. If his base stops getting paid for a bit, it will seem far less like a "win". If his base experiences some inconvenience, perhaps he will cut some level of a deal, and call that a win. This would be a better choice.

[BannonsLiver]

20. You've sadly lost the plot.

Last edited Wed Oct 1, 2025, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)

[H2O Man]

21. No thank you.

[Pototan]

22. I respect your opinion

but what is the end game?

[Torchlight]

23. I think Mr. trump's shitdown will assist Dems in the mid-terms

He owns this tantrum and a year is long time for him to stamp his feet and hold his breath, ensuring no one forgets.

[Silent Type]

24. Yep, we don't "hold the cards." I'd hold a big press conference announce we are going to vote for extension because

enough GOPers have committed to reinstating ACA premium subsidies, Medicaid expansion, and Medicare PAYGO waiver.

Then, every week our leaders need to be all over media pounding message that up until November. If at that point GOPers won't do anything, we'll at least have some extra momentum going into midterms.

[Autumn]

25. No thanks, I'll pass on that. Republicans own this shit show It's. All. On. Them.

Bipartisanship and "vote for me I'm not as bad as the other guy' just doesn't fucking cut it. You want to win an election?Champion the change the American people need and want.

[Walleye]

28. They're struggling to pass funding. That landslide mandate they keep talking about exist.

[Raven123]

30. So are you saying we will have the votes in 7 weeks?

Are you suggesting the GOP will negotiate in good faith?
Are saying the House and Senate will come to an agreement that Trump will follow?
Are you saying we won’t be in this exact same place in 7 weeks?

You make some good points. I guess I don’t see that it is better to fight later than fight now.

What am I missing?

[Pototan]

36. No. Maybe we can get the extension

of the ACA tax credits, but at that point we look like the folks who can govern.

Shutting down government is what Republicans want, and we shouldn't assist them in that cause.

[Raven123]

41. What would be your negotiating strategy?

[Pototan]

45. Again, we don't have the votes

so our strategy options are limited, if there are any at all.

Hence, my OP, "We don't have the votes".

We need to win elections.

[kimbutgar]

31. I'm just afraid that they will intentionally keep the government shut down to let the orange turd do a coup

The miltary will not be paid and services ended and he will cause suffering to the American people and even the magas will be hurt. And he (and miller who is his Rasputin ) will threaten us and maybe even bomb states that are against him. We live in dangerous times. I have watched too many of those dystopian movies to be concerned.

AND I HOPE TO GOD I AM WRONG!

[intelpug]

54. Bombing states

If the military winds up not being paid or funded then how, is he going to bomb any states?

[kimbutgar]

60. I'm sure there are some magaloon pilots who would obey dear leaders orders !

[Klarkashton]

32. We won't have "the votes" 7 weeks from now either. Last time we gave up they gave 38+ billion to ICE.

[Hekate]

35. I can just hear the braying of "caving" and "spelunking" and "treason" already

What the GOP has in abundance that we never have had, is a well-oiled propaganda machine and believers to pass it along.

Make it your business to counter the GOP’s message every day in every way. Everybody who wants a different outcome could do that.

I’ve read that people want Dems to stand tall against MAGAGOP in Congress. Well, they are, and it’s damn painful, isn’t it? I have read this ad nauseam. I get the impression that my fellow DUers hold Schumer and Jeffries in utter contempt for not doing this sufficiently (in their eyes) and now that they are —

Many Dems are getting on the tv-machine to tell our side of it. Notice them! Encourage them! Have their backs! This shutdown, first promulgated by Newt Gingrich (R) is all on the GOP. Don’t say otherwise, and don’t let anyone else say otherwise.

[Pototan]

48. When the Republicans held their votes

to shut down the government, they failed every time. Sticking together on this tactic has never worked for either party.

[LyfeTimeDem]

42. Democratic Party affiliation is growing....

Republicans are shrinking


https://news.gallup.com/poll/692978/democrats-regain-advantage-party-affiliation.aspx

[Ms. Toad]

50. It's not about anger. It's about ensuring reasonably priced access to health care.

AFTER the last continuing resolution was passed - Republicans passed a second bill withdrawing funding which was already committed to Medicaid.

Why on earth, after that stunt, should Democrats trust Republicans to negotiate restoring the funding which they cut in a separate bill - AFTER - the last threatened shutdown?

Standing firm now is the only substantial possibility to get Medicaid and the subsidies for the affordable care act funded. If Democrats cave now, there is zero chance of funding health care at the levels which existed before the monstrosity the Republicans like to call the "Big Beautiful Bill."

[lostincalifornia]

51. I agree with you entire assessment, except one thing needs to be added. The Democrats must get

out on the airwaves, social media, and ads explaining in clear language what is happening, and exactly what the republicans are doing, denying subsidies to the ACA so people lose their coverage, which means losing their healthcare, and stealing funding allocated to Medicaid.

It needs to be agressive, frequent, and scare the heck out of people that millions will lose their coverage.

It has to have the impact of the "Daisy commercial", which Goldwater lost against, except the stakes this time are that millions will lose their healthcare coverage.

[Ms. Toad]

53. From what I've heard so far, their message is stronger than any I've heard recently. n/t

[lostincalifornia]

55. I hope so.

[MichMan]

58. The problem is that when the enhanced subsidies were included in the American Rescue Plan they had an expiration date.

That 2021 bill was to provide relief in multiple areas to address some of the effects of the pandemic. Everyone knew at the time that these enhanced ACA subsidies were temporary and would expire this year.

[Ms. Toad]

62. That is not the part I was commenting on.

I was very careful to restrict mu comment to the Medicaid cuts which were implemented in the so-called Big Beautiful Bill.

Yes, the other is also a big problem - but it isn't the reason that the premise of the OP's thinking is unsupportable. The reason that Democrats can't just agree now and negotiate later is because the last time they did that, Republicans turned around later and selectively clawed back programs which were already funded.

[in2herbs]

52. It is already nearly impossible for D to win elections because of heavy gerrymandering, and with this supreme court

I have no faith in our elections.

It seems to me you forget that there is no truth in journalism any longer. The truth of what Ds have done for the country and the economy since Bush is never printed or printed with bothsiderisms attached.

We may not have the votes but we do have the votes to keep the Rs from completely destroying our county. Why aren't you promoting your opinion to the Rs?

F45 and the Rs can't be trusted. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if F45s real intent was to shut down the govt and NEVER reopen it.

[regnaD kciN]

56. If you think caving will help our chances to win upcoming elections...

…you’re living in a fantasy world.

[edhopper]

57. So you are saying

Allow the GOP to double the cost of healthcare and hope those devastated by this will not blame us?
Good plan.

[Pototan]

59. How is shutting down the government going to prevent that

They love the government to be shut down.

[edhopper]

61. The budget you say the Dems should help pass

Will do that.

[Rebl2]

63. I agree with you