Dr. Nolan Ryan Williams, neuroscientist/psychiatrist, pioneer of Stanford SAINT protocol for depression, dies by suicide

[crimycarny]

I was devastated to learn that Dr. Nolan Ryan Williams passed away on 10/8/2025 by suicide. Dr. Williams was a brilliant neuroscientist with a large resume, including Director of the Stanford Brain Stimulation lab. He was dedicated to finding better treatments for brain diseases such as depression, and he pioneered the groundbreaking Stanford SAINT treatment, which the FDA gave special "breakthrough" status due to its efficacy for depression.

It was actually on DU that I first heard about SAINT and Dr. Nolan Williams, and after reading the article posted on DU about SAINT, I emailed Dr. Williams, who took the time to reply. Looking back, I'm amazed that such a busy and brilliant man would have taken the time to read and answer an email from a random mom, but he did.

The death by suicide of a man dedicated to finding treatments for depression highlights the baffling complexity of this disease. It should also wipe away the myth that those who end their life by suicide did so due to simplistic answers such as not having access to help, or not having someone to talk to, or others not seeing signs. If anyone would know the signs, it would have been Dr. Williams. If anyone had access to the best treatment possible, it would be Dr. Williams. It's not that simple. Dr. Williams understood that, which is why he relentlessly pursued not only better treatments but also making those treatments available to everyone.

I'm just devastated. What an amazing man. A Eulogy for Nolan Ryan Williams from a colleague: https://thefrontierpsychiatrists.substack.com/p/a-eulogy-for-nolan-ryan-williams

[sinkingfeeling]

1. My sister was a psychologist who taught suicide prevention. She killed herself in April 2017. I was furious as I threw

away her course materials.

[crimycarny]

2. Oh don't get me started!

First of all, let me say I'm so sorry for your loss. Losing someone to suicide is one of the most painful losses. So much second-guessing, so much stigma from those who are (lucky) not to understand it's not as simple as society, including Suicide Prevention campaigns, paint it as.

Until we recognize that psychological symptoms are no different than physical symptoms when it comes to being a manifestation of underlying disease, then we'll be stuck right where we are. The brain is run by circuitry. Some circuits control mood, some control movement, some control sight, hearing, feel, etc. We'd never assume that if someone is blind, for example, they should simply tell their brain to see. Or if someone has Parkinson's, they should tell their brain to stop their physical tremors. Yet we assume someone who is suffering depression can 'think' their way out of it.

[Racygrandma]

14. I have a nephew who committed suicide

Thank you for explaining this to me. There is a lot of suicide on his mothers side

[crimycarny]

29. I'm so sorry to hear that

Suicide loss is the most painful loss one can experience, and it affects so many. I know my world is absolutely shattered after losing my son.

[electric_blue68]

8. {hug} So sorry.

[hlthe2b]

3. A tremendous loss for all who knew him and were helped by him, but I never blame anyone in cases of suicide

I just think that is so damned wrong, while anger is understandable. And yes, my family has been touched by it as well.

None of us can be inside the head or feel what the person was experiencing. What is common is that those who go into some fields of psychology, psychiatry, neuropsychiatry, and related fields do so because, on some level, they are trying to understand what is going on inside themselves. And they do, at least for a while, all during the time they are undoubtedly helping others.

I'm saddened for all who lost him, his patients (who hopefully will continue to benefit from his work), his family, of course. But, I just hope on some level he was at peace and that future work by others may help us better understand this very complicated issue. But, I lay no blame for his loss on anyone.

[Silent Type]

4. Used to do talks for pyschiatrists when I worked for a State Medical Society. Loved placing my handouts as docs were at

lunch. Their doodles left at their seat were a trip.

I'm a doodler too, but those shrinks were way out in Stephen King land.

Depression is horrible, even if you get it under control, one event can throw one for loop.

[multigraincracker]

5. I always think of the theme song from Mash.

[wolfie001]

12. Oh yes

Timely post. Wow.

[SheltieLover]

6. I wonder if this is the same type of transcranial magnetic stim John Elder Robison underwent?

And now I wonder if this brilliant doctor was possibly on the autism spectrum.

Robison explains in his book that he felt very sad after transcranial magnetic stim, because he felt the pain of the separation from others he had lived with and the harsh content of others' cruel comments to and about him.

RIP, doctor.

[TexasBushwhacker]

15. My depression has been turned around by Ketamine treatment

It has helped me process a lot of long held grief, including grief over everything I lost through years of being depressed. There are times when I've come out of my Ketamine sessions and my eye mask was just soaked with tears. That's okay. Tears are healing.

[JoseBalow]

7. It's not easy to fight monsters

Sometimes, the abyss stares back.

[popsdenver]

9. Possibility

of a health problem........??????????????

[haele]

10. FWIW, Suicide is not always an escape from severe depression

It is a way of ending a future that would be intolerable to the person.
A future of constant Pain
A future of Disgrace
A future without an Identity or Anchor.
A future full of despair.
A future watching failure after failure of everything you've been working for, and you just don't have the energy to start over.
Or just an overwhelming "I want the world to stop".
It can be a selfish impulse, it might be a temporary weakness, it could be staring into a long, dark, lonely time of the soul and stepping out into it.
It could be thinking "there's nothing more I can do to support those I care for than to die" - or a big ol' angry "F*** all you takers, I'm out of here" when one realizes they're surrounded by moochers, feckless idiots, or emotional vampires.
Suicide is a complex choice on how to deal with a burden one just doesn't feel they can deal with anymore.
Yes, we all think about that step, that trigger, that twist of the wheel and then come to ourselves. Some people are considered "suicidal" due when making a snap decision to push limits or reacting to resolve a catastrophic situation without regarding their own safety, especially if they get injured or die for their actions. No "rational" person would be driven to do what they did.
The complexity behind a suicide is one of the reasons there's such guilt and stigma involved with the act. But it's still a choice that person made, no matter how flawed we might perceive it after the fact.

[JMCKUSICK]

17. You wrote this so elequantly Haele,

I see myself several times on that list and I call myself a coward for not having done it a long time ago.
It's almost like the fear of nothing is worse than my known pain.
That failure one is especially poignant.
The Pain one is the most obvious, and the future without identity or anchor will probably be the one that gets me there.

[haele]

32. When I was even 10 years younger, I was invincible.

Two knee surgeries, severe arthritis, and looking at having to continue working four to six more years into my early 70's with a deteriorating, painful body as the primary support of a disabled spouse, an emotionally fragile stepdaughter and two grandkids - in this economy, well, it's daunting and there are days that I look at what's needed to pay the bills and take care of everyone and what's in my employer's insurance policy....
Well, I'm sometimes finding myself in the F*** y'all state.
It's not a good headspace to be in.

[electric_blue68]

11. Really sad! Strength to all who mss him.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

13. Sad!! RIP

[twodogsbarking]

16. Depression can get ya. It don't care who you are and at some point neither will you.

[Lemon Lyman]

18. Jesus

He's the scientist in this video (begin seeing him at the 1 min 28 sec mark). It was SUCH a good segment:

Direct link to CBS site if YT won't play:

https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/L6H2v7VpaYJxwjCnmn6ZZKZxHlHwO3Bu/

[crimycarny]

19. I used to share this same video all the time

To educate others after my son's death from suicide. I particularly like how Dr. Williams states that this treatment helps patients suffering to realize that their condition is their brain circuitry and not something they are doing wrong. He seemed so pleased with this treatment not only helping the condition, but helping remove the stigma. It's just so gut-wrenching to see Dr. Williams in this video, only to know now that he is gone.

[Lemon Lyman]

20. I'm so sorry

I'm sorry you lost your son to this disease. It's horrible.

[crimycarny]

23. Thank you

I wish the Suicide Prevention Campaigns would make it clearer that many times those suffering from suicidal ideations don't show obvious signs. I didn't know that. I wish I had. My son was going to work, still hanging out with friends, and was literally laughing with those same friends just hours before ending his life. I've since learned this is extremely common, so many had no idea their loved one was suffering. Even those who did know and did everything under the sun to help their loved one, ultimately, their loved one lost their battle.

[Lemon Lyman]

21. -

This was a good video from CBS Sunday morning about mental health too:

Their servers must be having trouble. The videos aren't always playing right away. Of course the commercials on YT play just fine.]

Direct link to CBS site if YT won't play:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/glenn-close-changing-minds-about-mental-illness/

[crimycarny]

24. Great video

Thank you for sharing!

[hunter]

22. I found everything about that eulogy alarming.

I'm probably the kind of patient who would have run from Dr. Williams office screaming, never to return.

Christianity? Artificial Intelligence? Transcranial magnetic stimulation? Stanford?

Noooooooo!

I'd have to drive over the mountain, strip off my clothes, and jump into the surf to wash that off.

( Don't worry. In Santa Cruz the cops are used to that sort of thing. So is the Pacific Ocean. )

This is a sad story and I don't think it's going to get any better than the obituary his wife posted on his web site.

[crimycarny]

25. Be grateful

That you can be so cavalier.

For those dealing with severe suicidal ideations or have a loved one who is, you'll grab whatever lifeboat comes your way. I am not religious, but I would have driven my son to church myself if it helped him. I would have spent every last dime I had to get my son TMS treatment if it might have helped. I wouldn't have cared less if the doctor who helped him was from Stanford or Timbuktu. If that doctor was a Christian, an atheist, or a satan worshipper. None of that matters when you are fighting for your life or your loved ones. Whoever can help, whatever can help, is what you will try.

[hunter]

26. I've been there myself, including hospitalizations.

I've been kept alive by drugs that made me feel like crap or fuzzed my mind, intensive therapy, and yes, some of that has worked. I'm still here.

Worse than my own misadventures with that sort of depression, I've had family and friends who have killed themselves, or tried to kill themselves, and I attribute some measure of my diagnosed PTSD to those experiences.

One of the reasons I quit my last psychiatrist (similarly world class, I have connections...) was that he seemed a little too interested in some of my stories, and a little too excited by certain drugs he wanted to try. There are places I'm not willing to go and I tend to be paranoid when I'm at my worst.

If something bad does happen to me, at my own hand or through my recklessness ( I can and have been a real trip sometimes... ) I wouldn't want anyone burdened with guilt... okay, maybe if they pulled the trigger or pushed me out the window. But even then... I have a knife scar on my arm that reminds me not to blurt out whatever pops into my head, especially to an angry person threatening me with a knife. Most of all I don't like agency taken from me, even in a locked psych ward.

If I've learned anything, it's that acceptance is important. I have to accept myself that this is a physical problem; accept myself as someone with an erratic mind that strays into some very dark places where nobody can reach me. I'm a bright guy but I'm not going to fix this by force of will no more than I could send myself back in time by force of will, which I've sometimes wanted to do.

Beyond accepting me as I am, it's also important that others accept me. But it's no longer essential to my well-being that everyone accepts me, or even that most people accept me. There are people in my life who have accepted me, even at my lowest points. I don't let people who cannot accept me, for whatever reason, live in my head.

By lifetime experience I've learned that when I'm heading downhill the first thing that flies out the window is my ability to judge my own mental state and my actual situation. I've managed to build a social safety net for myself, even some mental safety nets within my own self (that I do not trust), but the reality is I walk a high wire. That's just the way it is.

Okay, I sound cavalier. And I may not have walked such a high wire as Williams walked, or some of his patients walked. There is an anger behind my comments and it's probably best I keep to myself for now. I'm not angry at Williams, I'm not without sympathy for those who loved him. Nevertheless there are aspects of U.S.A. society that kill people. DU is a political site and my post was political.

[crimycarny]

28. I so appreciate your sharing

Thank you for sharing, and I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles. I wish you could have talked to my son. I think no one can truly understand unless they are battling the same disease themselves.

That is one thing I'm learning through this awful process of trying to understand this nightmare, and that is there are some really sh*tty psychiatrists/counselors out there, and that our current treatment approach is horrible.

In the first few months after my son died, I had called my insurance company to find out why they didn't cover my sessions with my grief counselor. My grief counselor had lost his wife to suicide, so he truly understood the unique loss. But apparently, he didn't have enough letters after his name, so the insurance company was balking at paying him.

In talking to the insurance customer service person, I mentioned that I didn't see how I was going to continue on without my son. I wasn't talking about suicide; I was simply talking about not knowing how I'm going to navigate this painful new world (thus the need for grief counseling). The agent was able to get the sessions covered, and we hung up.

Imagine my surprise when 24 hours later, my middle son woke me up (from some precious sleep that I'd finally been able to get) and told me the police were at the door. Imagine my panic as just a few weeks before my same middle son was the one who answered the door to the police, telling me my oldest son had died by suicide. At the time, I had a daughter a few hours away at college, so of course I feared the worst.

I opened the door and was ordered to step outside on my front porch. Apparently, the insurance agent had contacted the local police after our conversation 24 hours earlier to report that I was "wanting to harm myself" (not at all what I said). Friggin' 24 hours later, they show up at my door. They talked to me like a criminal who had called in a bomb threat. There was zero empathy, more like contempt. I'm standing out there on my front porch, in my pajamas, with the police interrogating me and all the neighbors watching. It was humiliating. I had to convince them I was not at risk of harm before they went away. I told myself right then and there that if I was ever truly suicidal, I would NEVER ever tell anyone.

That is the system we have. No wonder people are reluctant to reach out.

I absolutely believe there is PTSD associated with losing someone to suicide, let alone several. There is also a genetic component to it. My son inherited my OCD type anxiety, which caused him to ruminate about his fears and perceived failures. But he was sooooo good at hiding it, I know that now. He hid behind humor, making everyone laugh. I still can't believe I didn't see his pain. I'll never forgive myself, never.

Thank you again for sharing. I have a lot of anger too. The system is so screwed up.

[hunter]

30. .

[Melon]

27. We should have assisted suicide.

Not for depression, but you don’t know what he was dealing with. Some diseases are terminal. Some diseases you with were. With those….there is some relief knowing there is a way to end it if needed.

[crimycarny]

34. I agree

Our medical advances have allowed us to keep people alive for longer, even with terminal illnesses that may cause great pain and suffering. Those same illnesses would have ended a person's life much sooner if not for some of the medical interventions we have now. But why extend the suffering? If someone has an irreversible illness that will end in suffering and pain, as well as thousands of dollars to be kept alive, why not allow that person the choice to die with dignity? To die surrounded by friends and family while the person is still able to communicate and isn't in excruciating pain?

[Another Jackalope]

31. I had a close call a couple of months ago.

I've suffered from undiagnosed BPII for the last 50+ years, heavy on the depression. The cycles could last from months to years. Then eight years ago I sat with my soulmate as she attempted to end her life in a horrific fashion. It failed, and two weeks later I sat with her again as she received MAiD (Medical Assistance in Dying - I'm in Canada, thankyouverymuch).

My depression got worse of course, and didn't let up. A couple of months ago I realized that there was in fact a painless, dignified, accessible exit available. What a relief! I immediately bought the necessary piece of kit on Amazon...

I'd been under the care of both a very good therapist (the sixth time was the charm) and a psychiatrist who is doing her best. I had just enough objectivity left to realize that buying the tools was a major step over the line from ideation, and I made a good choice. I disclosed my actions to my therapist, who was able to talk me into disposing of the goods. I also disclosed it to my psychiatrist, who put me under closer watch and bumped my meds. After discussions, neither called in the first responders.

But it was those discussions that went to the heart of the matter and helped me regain some long-lost objectivity about myself. Being able to vent without limits or fear of judgement was the key for me. It may not be for others, but it's way better than letting the inner pressure build up and blow.

Nobody but my medical team knew anything was that seriously wrong. It's very hard to tell from the outside. I haven't had any recurrences, but I now have two professionals and my own reawakened sense of self-preservation standing watch.

Life can be a tightrope walk without a net. If you get into trouble, please tell someone you trust what's going on - they probably won't know unless you say something. It takes a bit of courage, but the payoff can be life-changing.

[crimycarny]

33. i know have had a glimpse into that mindset

After my son died, I had a time where I went into a very dark tunnel and started doing some planning myself. While I was able to get myself out of that mindset, I've never forgotten how logical it seemed. It also had nothing to do with a lack of love from my family or a lack of love for my family. It had nothing to do with not having resources to get help or not having friends I could talk to. That period of time gave me insight into my son's mindset and provided a glimpse into perhaps why he didn't reach out. He didn't want to; he saw no other choice. Sort of like being inside a burning building and your "choice" is to burn alive or jump.

I'm grateful you still had a small part of your brain that allowed you to reach out. I just wish more people understood that this "suicide tunnel", as it's often called, is not something you can understand from a rational mindset. We want explanations that come from a rational mindset, and that is why the answers remain elusive. Hearing others explain their thinking, at the time, is crucial to a better understanding than we have now. For example, it's not as simple as having a 988 number to call. When someone gets to that point, it's often too late. I'm not saying 988 isn't a good thing, but it's not a catch-all solution.

That is why I'm hopeful for better treatments and maybe earlier intervention. Dr. Nolan Williams found that younger people in his study had a bigger response to the TMS treatment. He theorized that since younger brains have more plasticity, being able to reset circuitry at a younger age helps to reduce the risk of the brain "hardwiring" towards depression. It makes sense to me. I have epilepsy, and there is a phenomenon called "kindling' where the brain "learns" how to have more seizures if they aren't brought under control. Sort of like creating a path through a field of grass. The more it's walked on, the easier it is to take that path. So the more seizures a brain has, it creates that path. However, if you can stop the traffic, the path of grass will grow over, and it's no longer the easier path to take.

Thanks for sharing your story. I wish you the best.