General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Chained CPI" Americans (across the board) GET IT:
"In order to strike a budget deal, would you accept Changing the way Social Security benefits are calculated so that benefits increase at a slower rate than they do now or is this something you would find unacceptable?"
The December Washington Post/ABC poll :
60% of all adults oppose (60% to 34%)
57% of registered voters oppose (57% to 36%)
68% of Democratic voters oppose (68% to 26%)
54% of Republican voters oppose (54% to 40%)
56% of Independents oppose (56% to 36%)
65% of liberals oppose (65% to 29%)
57% of moderates oppose (57% to 38%
58% of conservatives oppose (58% to 33%)
It would appear that Americans across the board can see with their own eyes the reality that returning Congressman Alan Grayson pointed out in his recent DU post: that the current CPI calculation methodology ALREADY UNDERSTATES inflation.
It would appear Americans are unwilling to be fooled again by those who believe they can dress up the slashing of earned benefits as "technical" accounting adjustments.
That scam has been long ago exposed: A few years after the Boskin Commission slashed SS benefits by rigging CPI to understate inflation, Greg Mankiw, chairman of George W. Bushs Council of Economic Advisers from 2001-2003, seeing no reason at the time to continue the charade, publicly admitted the truth everyone already knew: The debate about the CPI was really a political debate about how, and by how much, to cut real entitlements.
On the issue cutting Social Security by means of again cooking the CPI calculation books, Americans across the board are in agreement, with the House Progressive Caucus, with the AFL-CIO, the AARP , MoveOn.org, Disabled American Veterans.
This appears to be a defining moment.
The Republican strategy is clear: Demand that DEMOCRATS initiates, pass, and OWN the issue of slashing Social Security. Regardless of how much Republican leaders may want to cut Social Security, through chained CPI or otherwise, they are unwilling to be the party to propose and own the issue. Their recent plan avoided "chained CPI" like the plague. The Republican strateg is to manipulate Democrats into betraying their base.
Will a disgraced & defeated Republican Party now succeed in manipulating Democrats to do such a thing?
Will we learn from the past?
In 1997, as the Boskin Commission's fraudulent rigging of CPI was on the verge of implementation, The Atlantic published an eerily prescient "How to Re-Write Economic History" which illustrates the profound attraction that cooking the books has for politicians:
Revising the CPI would get the Republicans off the hook of deficit reduction, while simultaneously advancing the interests of business. This, however, would occur at the expense of working Americans and the elderly. Revising the CPI would get the Democrats off the same hook, but at the cost of another shameful desertion of the constituencies they claim to represent.
- - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/97apr/econhist.htm
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It should be 90% or more disapprove IMHO.
onecent
(6,096 posts)KansDem
(28,498 posts)Albeit, by a very slim margin:
57% of moderates oppose (57% to 38%)
58% of conservatives oppose (58% to 33%)
But still, very revealing...
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If you look like you're doing something, moderates often like it.
JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)One percent is about calculations when presenting to results, and means nothing.
Look at the other side of that same presentation: conservatives approving is 33% while moderates approving is 38%. Now that is truely strange.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)with this little splinter party, the Progressives?
Ainnit just amazing that the majority of the people are represented by small minorities in Congress and not at all in the White House?
Altogether, it just goes to show ya how fucked the system truly is, and how far from a (small-d) democratic vision we have wandered.
Gubmint is owned lock, stock & barrel (if ya don't mind an old gun phrase) by the 1%, and nothing can make it clearer than this.
The single upside I take from this picture is that in fact the majority of the public hasn't fallen for the propaganda, even though they have been deprived of the institutional means of expressing their political will.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the Chained CPI, 'a sneaky way to cut benefits', is because of all the Progressive Organizations along with AARP which has a huge membership, taking the trouble to make sure people understand what it means.
Four years ago we were all willing to wait when we saw things that made us uneasy, but not any more. The coalition of organizations that formed before the election, stated that while they would vote for Dems, they no longer trust either party to look out for the interests of the American people, especially the most vulnerable of them.
I know I receive tons of emails each day from all these organizations which I signed up for since the coalition formed and they are doing a tremendous job of educating the people.
We have more means today of getting the word out than when we had to depend on the MSM. The Social Media has also been doing a great job of spreading the information to millions of people.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)from the tight control that the governing elites once maintained over it. That's one reason I'm not quite as concerned as I might be over the increasing consolidation of ownership that is currently taking place. They're consolidating a dinosaur.
The social media age is in its infancy, but it can no longer be stopped short of shutting down the world's Internet system, and by now they can't do that without wrecking their own systems. In a short 20 years, we have all become transformed by this new thing. The new information revolution will be as profound in its effects as the Gutenberg revolution, which brought us the modern world.
Always in the past we have had one-to-many communications. The people in power had the megaphones/papers/broadcast stations, and we had two options: Attend to the messages or don't attend to them. This is a few-to-many system.
The social media are bringing us into the many-to-many era of communication. You might write something, I might write something, anybody might write something (or post a video or whatever) that suddenly goes viral. Each of us now has the potential to transmit our own thoughts and knowledge to the rest of the world. This is very different from anything that has gone before.
We have laid the groundwork for humankind to become a leaderless organization.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)And by "they" I mean the republicans, Obama, and Pelosi.
I am livid about this lie we are told.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)In fact I'm confident they will get it GOOD AND HARD.
Hat tip to HL Mencken
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)In offering these cuts, the president is ignoring 68% of Dems and 60% of the electorate.
byeya
(2,842 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)the majority of people are not in the mood for another.
The Democrats picked up a couple of Senate seats; polled more than the republicans in House races by approx. 2 Million; and won the Presidency.
And this is the argument we're having and the legislation we're facing?
We should be talking about Medicare for All and how to achieve it quickly; cutting the military establishment in half and firing all the mercenaries and consultants; saving he planet from climate change; raising the minimum wage; approving EFCA and modernizing labor law with jail terms for bosses interfering with organizing, etc.
What kills me are the democrats on this board arguing that a deal including chained CPI is no big deal.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)are a small minority, here on DU attempting to excuse this by pushing the fantasy that this is some kind of chess game.
Each time SS is mentioned in the same discussion as the Deficit, it pushes the narrative that there is some truth to that. Any Democrat worth the title would make sure that no hint of that lie gets into the public dialogue. Instead we have Pelosi claiming that the Chained CPI will 'strengthen SS'. Either she has been completely deluded herself, or she thinks we are stupid.
No wonder she won't answer her phone.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Conservative Dems (of which there are far too many) and their GOP counterparts will have their way on this issue no doubt and, after many decades of wistful thinking, finally succeed in seriously wounding a social program they despise. Gutting Social Security and Medicare are the golden ticket that "fiscal cliff" talks were designed for.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)goddamned phone to your rep, regardless of party, and give them a piece of your mind on this issue. I just find handwringing and assumption-making when there is still time to act to be counterproductive.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I have called. I have also signed at least half a dozen or more petitions sponsored by MoveOn, Creedo, FDL, Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich. It will amount to nothing in the end. It isn't "learned helplessness", it's simply "facing reality". The reality IS that we have two political parties that lie strategically well right of center, and the remnants of the old pre-DLC Democratic Party are too few to prevent changes that the right wants. Ask yourself, why didn't Obama talk about his desire for chained CPI during the primaries? Oh, many of us knew it, and even talked about it only to be quickly shut down and ridiculed for having such thoughts by DU's resident third-way mafia. We're fucked. You know it, and I know it.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Your words say you have no hope, but words are often used to hide facts. Your actions say you think don't believe your own predictions. And they are predictions. Folks who tell me 'I see the future, and I take many actions I think are meaningless' strike me as being at odds with their own minds.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)there is no life. But I can also see the reality of the situation at hand. There is nothing magical or prescient in observing reality as it unfolds.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)carried out I believe, of publicly exposing all Dem Senators who either remain silent at this critical time, or who like Pelosi, try to sell the lie that the Chained CPI will strengthen SS. We are all much more informed now than we ever were, and a threat from the coalition of Progressive Organizations together with all the other huge organizations such as the Unions and AARP to primary any Dem Senator who does not come out now and oppose this disastrous policy, rather than as they have done in the past, follow the Dem Leadership and support their choice, might just move a few of them to do what is right.
This is going to be a fight, something in the past they really haven't had. There is a change in the political atmosphere now and there are more of us than there are of them. United the people have a lot of power. Up to now, we have not been this united.
Paul Ryan said in 2005 to Bush when advising him to use his political capital to privatize SS, that 'SS is no longer the Third Rail of politics'. And we all know what happened when Bush believed that. He was sent home by the American people with his tail between his legs.
I am very hopeful that our Reps will get the message that we are not as stupid as they thought.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They have no reason to listen to the 98%.
None.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Yes, he can be pushed
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Many of the items in the so-called "market basket" are staples that are basically price-controlled by the subsidies we give farmers.
The government cannot admit the real cost of inflation because that would sent the Federal budget into chaos -- in 2 ways:
1) much of our government expenditures are pegged to this fake CPI
2) if the real inflation rate were publicized, that would drive interest rates up and interest is a huge part of our budget.
merrily
(45,251 posts)more than a majority of Congress.
Where were we when the Third Way was taking over our Party?
Where are we now?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)as to which party bears responsibility. When that piece drops into place, the lever will be pulled.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Per the OP. Amazing, isn't it?
And the Third Way... unspeakable. They're crawling DU claiming it's necessary/inevitable/all the fault of Progressives and so forth.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)He is a lot less grouchy than you. He takes his medicine with a smile. He loves the warm "trickle down" by the 1% and their government henchmen. He is a pragmatic realist, unlike you, the professional leftist.
We need our own "safe haven" forum where 3rd way dems can be given the boot.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Another plan to hurt working people and their families. It's downright shameful.
Impose a tiny tax on the fast Wall Street trades, and if the trading leaves our shores, so be it. Fast trading is a scam. We can clean up the stock and commodities market and come closer to balancing our budget at the same time. Without fast trading, ordinary people might be more willing to invest in America.
Tax Wall Street, not Main Street.
midnight
(26,624 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)but I have to wonder...Are Obama and Pelosi so completely unaware of the polling figures on chained CPI, or raising eligibility age, etc. that they must be phoned to inform them of how the public feels about these issues? Or, are they fully aware of what the public polling results are and yet, quite simply, just don't care?
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)swayed with enough pressure.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I'm planning to live into my 90s and my husband isn't. I don't get survivor benefits from his pension since we weren't married when he retired, so I'm going to need every penny I can get my hands on.