We Just Giving Up?

[angrychair]

I have now seen several posts from people basically shrugging their shoulders and "guess we just move on" from a catastrophic shit show that happened less than 24 hours ago.

The entire point of the shutdown was the ACA subsidies.

Not SNAP. Not the Epstein files. Not the VA. Not any other reason but the ACA subsidies.

The Senate Democrats literally shut down the government for the ACA subsidies. People suffered. Ran out of food. Lost their jobs. Lost their pay. Unbelievable stress and anxiety.

For 40 days

Then Senate Democrats just go: "nah, nevermind" and cave, gave Republicans everything they wanted in the first place and failed to achieve the objective of the whole damn reason they had the shutdown.

Best case tens of thousands of people die.
Most likely outcome is the entire healthcare system will collapse.

We lied to people and if none of you think that wont have consequences in November we will all soon see.

I for one am not letting Schumer or these 8 Democrats off the hook. We got screwed for no damn reason at all.

[leftstreet]

1. I see the midterm mailers already

OMG The Republicans voted to cancel YOUR healthcare

Vote for us

[usonian]

11. I see the midterm mailers already ...

DEMOCRATS HAD A CHANCE TO SAVE YOUR OBAMACARE AND CHICKENED OUT.

[Seinan Sensei]

46. DACO

[RockRaven]

2. IMO there is no way to spin this to avoid a conclusion of major strategic failure.

Most voters are not ever going to be deep in the weeds. The superficial view of this situation is a disaster -- Dems appear feckless and weak. That appearance is a result of the decisions made and actions taken, and so could have been otherwise.

[AZJonnie]

21. One could argue that when the bill comes due and millions see the result, Dems are in a good position

to be able to say "we did EVERYTHING we could possibly do, the public did not elect us into a position where we controlled government, and we even let the government close to try to save them for you, but once people started starving and millions were working without pay, we had to give in because outright starvation is more pressing than health care". That type of thing.

The counter argument is that could have done nothing, i.e. just funded the government without a fight over the subsidies, and THEN leveraged the anger over the increased premiums, saying "hey, it wasn't us, we didn't have the power to stop the GOP from screwing you over, so vote for us instead next time"

Because I'm not sure which, in the end, would be more politically effective, I defer to the idea that the shutdown was better because at least they TRIED to stop a broad swath of the population from losing their coverage or having their premiums explode, even if there was not really a practical path to making the GQP acquiesce.

[Volaris]

36. I think the 3rd option SHOULD BE the democratic message:

'We, have NO POWER. Your vote saw to that. So, have the day you FUCKING VOTED FOR, and if you starve, and want it stopped, next time you will vote DIFFERENTLY. Sorry, but.....not fucking sorry; elections have CONSEQUENCES.
Be sure and complain to your non-maga neighbors, im sure they'll LOVE YOU FOR IT.'

[AZJonnie]

40. Your idea falls generally under my 2nd option :)

I do think a reasonable case can be made for both avenues re: the shutdown, because Democrats are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't conundrum. The GQP are pretty resourceful when it comes to putting our side into such situations, I have to frustratedly concede. Then the media SUCKS about putting their sides spin front and center in every f****** article and providing minimal pushback or explanation of our side of the debate. The reality is our side is at a MASSIVE disadvantage against somebody as pathologically ruthless as IQ47 is, esp. when he's completely cowed the media (and it's all being bought up by his billionaire buddies).

[LuvLoogie]

38. major strategic failure? Pffft. This was sabotage. A knife in the back.

The special election sweeps scared the donor class. Mamdani's win really scared them.

We were shived by our own.

[Bozvotros]

50. I want to know why these 10 Democratic cowards were not outed before this capitulation.

Someone (Schumer and others) knew these Senators were going to sell us out long before this, but kept it quiet to keep the pressure off them till it was too late. Schumer must be forced out today. Same goes for Jeffries in the House who is supportive of Schumer still. This was a total disgusting betrayal from our so-called "leadership." More words fail me.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

3. I would hope not

It's just that many are upset and feel the need to vent. At the end of the day, we need to pick up the fight frustrating as it may be.

[angrychair]

9. I cannot

Schumer is controlled by Mango Mussolini now. He makes him dance like a little trained poodle.
Twice this man has had his hand in forcing Senate Democrats to approve a Republican CR with no benefit of Democrats.

I am ashamed and embarrassed that we the Democratic Party caused all this chaos and hurt so many people for absolutely no reason in the end

[usonian]

14. He has done it twice now (not to mention ACB's nomination)

But, be of good cheer.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

15. I'm right there with you.

Again, they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[people]

17. Agreed

What was the point in letting people suffer for 5 weeks if we were just going to cave. Looks very bad and 100% weak. If democrats were going to cave why begin this process of holding out?

[USS_Dauntless]

49. The only reason the Senate exists

is to royally FUCK us in the ass. With no dinner and no lube. I'd give both of my nuts for someone like AOC or Elizabeth Warren to replace Schumer. DISGUSTING!

[orangecrush]

4. Kick

[Happy Hoosier]

5. No. But let's not kid ourselves....

a small group of so-called Democratic Senators is simply unwilling to fight.

[Cirsium]

10. More than that

There is no way that just by coincidence those who voted with the Republicans - the exact number of them that was needed! - just happened to all be among those who are not up for reelection. They worked closely with the party leadership to carefully craft this surrender.

[Marie Marie]

32. Spot on Cirsium

[Happy Hoosier]

72. Totally agree.

This was orchestrated. Shameful.

[Cirsium]

73. The worst thing

The worst thing about it is that it seems to have been done for the purpose of cynically manipulating us, the Democratic voters.

[H2O Man]

6. Just warming up.

Recommended.

[niyad]

7. 7 Dems. 1 Ind.

[QueerDuck]

8. Ridiculous. Stop it.

Thousands and thousands who have no place to turn for food because SNAP has been shut off can now feed their families. ACA is a fight for another day. We're not in charge. We are the minority party. It sucks but that's reality.

I learned long ago that you can't get everything you want, instantly, all at once. So... we do what's possible, and keep trying to move the needle toward the things that we care most about.

This whole hair-on-fire and Veruca Salt tantrum and "Democrats suck" messaging that I'm seeing online and elsewhere does nothing to advance our cause or to make the party stronger or more unified. It plays directly into the "both parties are the same" nonsense that the fringe extreme likes to cling to as justification for voting third party or not voting or for advocating for "leave it blank".

[Cirsium]

12. You stop it

How about you stop maligning and attacking your fellow Democrats?

"Can't get everything you want, instantly, all at once??"

"This whole hair-on-fire and Veruca Salt tantrum??"

Is your rant meant to "advance our cause" or to "make the party stronger or more unified?" Please.

[QueerDuck]

22. Oh good grief. I'm doing no such thing. I know that it can be difficult to face reality...

and it can be disappointing and frustrating. The desire to attack-the-messenger when faced with the unvarnished truth is perfectly natural too. However, I assure you that I'm not the enemy... I'm not offended and I do understand and forgive you.

[Cirsium]

54. No one said you are the enemy

"It can be difficult to face reality?" Clearly you are implying that those who disagree with you are having difficulty facing reality. Can you not see how insulting that is? Attack the messenger? Is that not exactly what you are doing?

You understand and forgive me?????

[QueerDuck]

61. No. I'm attacking nobody. I'm the messenger telling the truth that is hard to accept.

Yes, I forgive the unfair attacks and insults. No, I'm not "insulting" anyone either. People may perceive honesty as being "insulting" but honesty itself is NOT an insult. I cannot be responsible for other people's feelings or hypersensitivities. I'm just telling it like it is. I'm being honest. Honesty is not always pleasant to hear. Honesty is not always easy to accept. But, that's not my problem either. No, you did directly state that I'm the enemy... apologies... clearly my words were misunderstood... my point was to remind you that we're on the same side. How's that? Clearer now?

[Cirsium]

67. You are not a victim

I haven't made any unfair attacks or insults.

[QueerDuck]

68. Again... I forgive you.

The hostility toward me is not deserved, but I understand. I'm not a "victim" ... just a target.

[angrychair]

16. Are you ignoring my point

The whole reason SNAP ran out was BECAUSE OF THE SHUTDOWN THAT SENATE DEMOCRATS FORCED TO HAPPEN TO PROTECT THE ACA SUBSIDIES.
SNAP ran out because Senate Democrats forced a shutdown to restore ACA subsidies.

Then they caved and got nothing.

Getting SNAP flowing again is not a win. It's a sign of our failure to achieve the objective.

Senate leadership failed us. Those 7 Democrats and one Independent failed us.

[edisdead]

19. The shutdown was a stupid idea to start with

It was NEVER going to result in what we wanted because THEY do not care aboot the Gov shutting down. They knew this the first time and smartly decided to not shut the gov down.

Now the Republicans own all of it.

[lark]

27. That will not be the story - watch and see.

It will be Dems caved and sold out the working class and poor. Good luck with the midterms, this just put us behind.

[QueerDuck]

20. It's clear to me that the expectations were unrealistic to begin with. Therefore...

the most probable outcomes were always going to be unacceptable and disappointing for many. I tend to focus on what's possible. While I hope for great things to miraculously happen, I don't expect them. While I'd welcome miracles, I'm not angry when they do not materialize.

It's wrong to hold the party and party leadership responsible for one's unrealistic expectations. They do not have magic wands.

[angrychair]

24. I didn't create that expectation

Democratic Senate leadership did. They forced the shutdown to protect ACA subsidies. They are the ones that failed the expectations they set. Not me. Not anyone else.

[QueerDuck]

25. I never said you did. It's all politics. They were also hoping for a better outcome...

but the reality is that something needed to be done. And now thousands and thousands of SNAP recipients can feed their families. This is a fight for another day. Keep in mind that "goals" and "expectations" are two different things. They had goals, you had expectations. If your expectations were realistic then you'd be less angry. I'm disappointed too, but I'm not angry at the party or leadership.

Instead, my anger is focused where it's deserved... AT THE GOP.

[angrychair]

29. I'm not rewarding them

For creating a crisis and failing to achieve the whole point of why they did it in the first place.

I'm just supposed to go "no big deal" and reward them for what they did by supporting them

[QueerDuck]

30. They made no promises, they had goals, but this time it failed. Yet you expected victory. These are your expectations...

and if you don't want to "reward" the Democratic party with your support... well... that's on you. If you want to abandon the party because of your own personal unmet expectations... again... that's on you.

As I said before, I have high hopes and I share the lofty goals... but I manage to keep my expectations in-check and I'm not going to abandon ship because of an outcome that does not benefit the party or our country.

[EarthAbides]

34. Food VS Healthcare

It's up to We The People to get our democracy back and we can't do that if most of us are starving...

The promises made with this deal will be broken, the Epstein Files will never be released and the fascist pig will continue to destroy our democracy on a daily basis until we rise up. The fascist pig was never going to give in, the moderates had to step in to make sure people did not starve!

It is time for us to Rise Up!

[QueerDuck]

37. Now vs later. We are not "in charge" and this was a battle we were always going to lose. Always!

To the best of my recollection, the "shutdown party" has never gotten everything they wanted. We are working from a position of weakness. We are not in charge. We are the minority party. The GOP controls EVERYTHING (all three branches, the courts, and the media.) What exactly were you expecting?

Yes... I agree. We need to "rise up" by supporting our party and by placing the blame WHERE IT BELONGS... in the lap of the GOP. (Attacking Democrats is not the way to "rise up".)

[0rganism]

41. The ACA is mortally wounded, this *was* the fight to save it, and our champions folded like cheap suits

The consequences of this capitulation are considerable. First, and most obviously, the Democrats lost whatever shreds of credibility they had been building over the last month through a principled stand to preserve ACA subsidies and enable people to afford health insurance. That's all gone now. Kaput. The enthusiasm Dems were building among young people especially has been set back; they'll need to see significant changes in leadership going forward to possibly restore their support. Possibly.

Then there's the situation with the ACA itself. Those subsidies that were the cause of a 40-day shutdown? Yeah, they're probably doomed. The promised vote in the senate? Subject to filibuster. Needs a few Rs to support it. Far from a guaranteed pass. Then there's the house where it might not even get a vote this year, effectively killing the ACA exchange plans. Then, assuming it passes the house, it heads to F47's desk.

I'll give you 3 guesses as to what F47 will do with former-president Obama's signature legislative achievement. Do you honestly think he'll sign these subsidies into law on their own? If he does, it will only be to reallocate the funds through his amazing "rescission" superpowers. But far more likely, he makes a big deal out of NOT signing it. There are few things that would fill his shitty little "heart" with glee more than wrecking "Obamacare" and replacing it with his "Great Trump Healthcare Initiative" or whatever which will operate as both a massive grift and a direct propaganda outreach that will hit mid-2026. Were you thinking of voting for someone in 2026? Well here's a $2000 check to use for "healthcare investments", don't let it impact your voting decisions, right? Just remember which party trusts you to make "your own decisions" about your healthcare.

Over many years, Democrats have been shuffled into the unenviable position of advocating for private health insurance companies as a national-scale solution to providing affordable healthcare to the disadvantaged (aka most of us). This is the year where it really bites us in the ass.

Basically, as a result of this ill-conceived maneuver in the senate, the 2026 midterms are now up for grabs. Sen. Schumer threw last Tuesday's momentum and good vibes into the trash. We'll be fortunate to maintain the seats we have, let alone to pick up new ones.

Hair-on-fire? Veruca Salt? You haven't seen shit yet. Just wait until a year from now when we'll be arguing on DU about "stolen" elections and "useless" young voters again, trying to beg off the questions of how we lost the union vote and remained in the minority in both houses when "the wind was at our backs" and all that.

[QueerDuck]

43. Again... we were NEVER going to win this fight. Never.

Blaming Democrats for an unpreventable loss makes zero sense. If y'all want to continue trying to sabotage the Democratic party with those types of accusations and attacks, that's not up to me.

[0rganism]

51. We'll never have more leverage to continue the ACA funding than we *had* on Saturday

If the whole thing was doomed from the start, senate Democrats could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by letting the CR through after a few days of performative resistance rather than 5 weeks of useless discomfort inflicted on the whole country. If this shitty deal was the best we could hope for, we could have gotten it in week 1. Now we get to eat shit for a long-term shutdown that accomplished squat-diddly.

But my point is, we HAD leverage, the GOP was on notice, there was a chance of success, especially after Tuesday. More voters were blaming Republicans for the shutdown by >10% margins. Imagine the massive disruptions to Thanksgiving travel and shopping blamed entirely on Republicans dead set on taking away food stamps and health care. The Republicans were looking awful on this. One more week and the GOP leaders would have been ready to deal. All Democratic leadership had to do was... NOTHING. And they failed. Completely.

Oh well. The ACA is dead. Sen. Schumer pulled the plug and paved the way for whatever F47's team comes up with as a replacement. There's still a robust demand for affordable healthcare, and the Democrats just abandoned the struggle to influence the form in which it arrives. Don't expect voters to swoon longingly over their long-lost Obamacare benefits next November.

[QueerDuck]

52. No we didn't. It was an illusion. A fantasy.

We lost the ACA when Trump was elected. This was always going to happen. The "uncommitted" and the "leave it blank" advocates guaranteed it.

Please put the blame and the scorn where it belongs and where it's DESERVED. (Hint: not with the Democrats.)

[0rganism]

55. We'll never know now, will we?

Like most Democrats, I'll put the blame squarely on Sen. Schumer and the 8 assholes who betrayed our trust and turned 5 weeks of principled resistance into worthless political tantrums performed at the expense of the nation.

At least we can agree that the ACA is gone now. We might differ on our opinions regarding time and cause of death, but it's gone.

If your goal is some kind of apologetic for the senate vote, you'll need to try harder. It's not selling here, and there's few venues friendlier to institutionalist Democrats than DU. Good luck with it; FWIW I respect your struggle more than Sen. Schumer's capitulation.

[QueerDuck]

60. No... "most Democrats" are not indulging in this type of self-destructive behavior...

and are placing the blame where it belongs. "Most Democrats" are rational and realistic and understand that we are NOT in control, and that no "shutdown party" has ever won what they claimed to have wanted. Our only advantage here was publicity and reminding people who is actually responsible for the misery being inflicted upon us.

What good purpose is being served by trying to "BLAME THE DEMOCRATS" for something that's NOT our fault?? I encourage you and everyone to keep fighting, but it's very important to put the blame where it belongs (hint: in the laps of the GOP... and in the laps of the folks who advocated and encouraged the "uncommitted" and "leave it blank" movement.)

PS and FYI: "institutional" is not a synonym for "realistic".

[0rganism]

63. OK, we'll see more of what the polls say RSN, but from what I'm seeing so far it's not looking good for Schumer's 8

PS and FYI: the "BLAME THE DEMOCRATS" ship is sailing ahead full steam; as a leadership apologist, you've got your work cut out for you. Good luck.

[QueerDuck]

69. DU is a microcosm and does not represent...

the greater outside world that understands political realities. My objective is only to state the truth and reality... I cannot be responsible for anyone who willfully denies the truth or who embraces fantasy. Those are personal decisions that are beyond my control.

Lol @ the characterization of me being an apologist... amusing

[0rganism]

71. Ah, so DU "does not represent the greater world that understands political realities", very nice.

DU is but one of many such unrepresentative forums. I've been on a few since yesterday, and have yet to see anyone outside of DU defending senate Democrats' actions yesterday, hence my uninformed opinion of what's representative of "the greater world". Since you profess greater insight than us simple inbred DUers, please point me to any forum where a majority of self-proclaimed Democrats support said actions. Currently, from polls I've seen, the Democratic congressional minority has approval ratings sub-30%. Among Democrats, 47% of those who disapproved of the Democratic party listed insufficient resistance to F47 as a reason for their dissatisfaction. Schumer himself was rocking a solid 29%, a mere -22% net rating.

Doubtless, Sen. Schumer's grand strategy will turn this all around by next November.

> Lol @ the characterization of me being an apologist
As the legend goes, if the foo shits, wear it.

[SocialDemocrat61]

53. If democrats win back one or both

chambers of Congress in the midterms, they’ll have a hell of a lot more leverage.

[0rganism]

58. IF. Used to be a "when", now, thanks to the senate's stupidity, it's definitely an "if".

We had enough leverage. A year from now? Who knows.

[SocialDemocrat61]

64. It's always an if

I personally don't have the ability to tell the future. If I did, I would have won the Powerball by now. 😉

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!

(Animal House reference)

Of course, the job now is to sort out the Nazis from the Allies from the Vichy and the Quislings…and make sure we wield whatever power and leverage we have fearlessly and unhesitatingly.

[QueerDuck]

39. Great flick. I only saw it ONE time... in an actual theater.

Never on HBO, never on VHS, never on DVD. Belushi was a comic genius.

[Patton French]

23. "The Senate Democrats literally shut down the government..."

No, they did not. The pukes hold every arm of government and thus are responsible for making sure funding bills pass. As the deadline approached and after it passed, the pukes refused to negotiate in good faith and rejected the Democrats' good faith proposals to reopen the government. No, the Democrats did not literally shut down the government.

[lark]

26. Yeah, Moses just said he would not bring the ACA vote to the House floor.

Dems caved for zero gain and for the rich and personally I feel bummed to the max. There wont be a vote in the House and every working poor person in America is fucked beyond belief.

[beaglelover]

31. And it will then be 100% the GOP's fault. That's a win.

[BannonsLiver]

59. Then what?

I can accept that strategy but the follow through is rather more tricky. At what point would the party ever have 60 votes in the senate to restore the ACA in the future?

[Red Mountain]

35. There wouldn't have been a vote in the House

I am annoyed by the whole situation. The shutdown would have, at best, resulted in a symbolic vote that wouldn't have gone anywhere.

Same thing with the Epstein files.

Both might result in providing some future political ad fodder that the fickle American public may or may not give a shit about.

I hate to say it. Pisses me off. But it wasn't a good fight to fight.

Not if it meant people going hungry and Federal workers having their lives wrecked (again, even more) in year one of this absolute cluster fuck of a presidency.

Time for a new contract with America. Spell it out, line by line and tell us how we're going to get there.

[spanone]

28. K&R

[Javaman]

33. I haven't but I have given up on our senators to have a spine nt

[berksdem]

42. I can say it any other way other than

this is a huge failure.

[SocialDemocrat61]

45. Not all senate democrats

Just 7.

[QueerDuck]

47. Oh look! A reasonable voice. Thank you. But... sadly, you'll be drowned out by a chorus of irrational hatred.

I do understand how disappointment can affect people's emotions and responses... but it's amazing how so many people are eager to attack and blame Democrats when they should be blaming (and attacking) the GOP.

[Escape]

48. The Impotent Eight taught the Republicans a lesson.......

...Extortion works...

[yellow dahlia]

62. No. We are not giving up.

We are WE THE PEOPLE.

Congress isn't doing their job. The "executive" (Article 2) has been hijacked. The Judiciary is only able to do so much, right now.

The Constitution says WE are the government.

I just read the newsletter sent out by Indivisible in response to last night's capitulation. Are you an Indivisible member? I will share it on GD.

We the people are in the fight. I believe we can keep the momentum, despite how tired some of us are.

[angrychair]

65. Good comments

I am an indivisible member but haven't looked at my email in several days. I'll give it a look.

[yellow dahlia]

66. Ezra is a great communicator. Eloquent writing and cogent summary.