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TygrBright

(21,276 posts)
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 05:09 PM Nov 20

Two difficult things covered (so far) in Ken Burns' "American Revolution"

I get tired of Ken Burns' mannerisms and tropes and then he dazzles me again with a new docuseries. In this case, "American Revolution". I haven't finished it yet but am looking forward to it.

To be fair to my history minor and subsequent history reading, nothing so far as been entirely "new". But it has been easy to 'read past' some things, without seriously contemplating them and fitting them into the larger historical context, and considering their lasting implications. So far, Burns has done an excellent job of covering two of those things:

First, the extent to which the desire of the more powerful and wealthy colonist entrepreneurs to grab and exploit lands belonging to Indigenous nations figured into the train of events severing them psychologically from England and its rule. The way it played out made me think of some of the things today's oligarchs use to rouse the rabble and consolidate their power. As new land-hungry colonists arrived, it was easy for the propagandists of the time to stir up discontent with England's policy of "hands off" lands on the other side of the Appalachians.

England wasn't doing this 'to be nice to the natives'. They sought control over a fast-growing and diversifying colonial population, and to do that with limited military and civil authority resources, they needed to control the size of the colonist-occupied territories. The politics between the many remaining intact Indigenous nations, England, the other European powers, and the various colonies, were far more complex than I knew.

And that led to the more powerful and influential among the colonial leaders and propagandists making the most of England's other attempts to control and/or generate sufficient revenue from the colonies to support the costs of their colonial in-place military and bureaucratic infrastructure. Which, when examined objectively, were not unreasonable goals, but Lordy did the Brits ham-handedly find their way to every worst-choice scenario they could in trying to implement such things. This contributed to the long, dark root of America's "You're not the boss of me!" strain of libertarian psychosis.

The second thing, and it's odd how diametrically and conceptually opposite it is to that first thing, was the nature and ubiquity of the "Committees of Correspondence/Inspection/Safety" as things edged closer to the flashpoint. They were essentially vigilante groups enforcing approved anti-British, pro-Revolutionary rules.

The Commitees' self-appointed jurisdiction applied to almost all aspects of people's lives - whether or not they supported aid to Boston, whether they spoke kindly of English authority or insultingly of Colonial leaders and their actions, what pamphlets they read (or just had in their homes) what they ate or drank (NO boycotted English products or even local products that might resemble "British" wares), who they did business with. And whether, when publicly hauled before a forum of their neighbors, they spoke correctly about their views and agreed vigorously enough with the approved doctrines or apologized abjectly enough for some infraction.

Which sounds very Cultural Revolution, to me. Very authoritarian, even. God help the uncommitted individual going about their business and making a spot of mild tut-tuttery about the mobs forming around the taverns to revel in, shout agreement with, and get increasingly rowdy in response to fiery speeches. What must it have been like for them? While they may have been in a minority, the choice given them between fear-based compliance, and going over to the Loyalists entirely must have been a painful one.

They weren't really nice people, most of those Founding Fathers. They kept slaves, they believed in liberty for white male property owners, and what they REALLY wanted was freedom from any restraint on land-grabbing, commercial exploitation, and building their own wealth no matter the potential damage to anyone else.

And yet, they managed to define a framework for self-governance and a set of ideals for its purpose that changed everything. They set the course for a long, difficult effort to bring about a system that increasingly allowed more and more previously disenfranchised people into the big tent of self governance, checks and balances, equality under the law, and power sharing.

I sometimes wonder whether, if we could wake all those Founders up today, how many of them would find themselves cozy quarters at the Heritage Foundation and in the new White House Ballroom with the other oligarchs, and how many of them would be hollering their lungs out at the next No Kings march.

musingly,
Bright

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Two difficult things covered (so far) in Ken Burns' "American Revolution" (Original Post) TygrBright Nov 20 OP
Yeah.. Takes quite a bit of the luster off the "morally pure" motivations that some have abscribed to hlthe2b Nov 20 #1
Thanks for reminding me that Trump gets to preside over our 250th Birthday. I remember the Bicentennial very well and it artemisia1 Nov 20 #7
i shudder on the fact that u know who will preside over that . AllaN01Bear Nov 20 #11
I've said it before - I don't think they, the FF, really understood what they were creating. Solly Mack Nov 20 #2
Thank you canetoad Nov 20 #3
Alexander Hamilton would be a Trumper obamanut2012 Nov 20 #4
I've only watched the first episode...I took notice of those two specific narratives. pecosbob Nov 20 #5
I'm surprised you're surprised... appmanga Nov 20 #13
Land hungry indeed catchnrelease Nov 20 #14
When you come from a continent where it's nearly impossible to own land... tinrobot Nov 20 #19
Tonight's episode is entitled 'The Soul of All America.' elleng Nov 20 #6
Yes, we have more than a few ghosts in our closet. Biophilic Nov 20 #8
I'm really liking this series Bayard Nov 20 #9
extremely well said! and on points not generally well known or understood. brava ! -(nt)- stopdiggin Nov 20 #10
The smartest thing the King/Parliament could have done, give them (us) a vote in Parliament. 3Hotdogs Nov 20 #12
Funny, you answered the question anyone might have cachukis Nov 20 #15
A third one is how violent the colonists were. El Supremo Nov 20 #16
I've heard it said that if we lost the revolution, or there was no revolution every thing would be SO different. We'd Fil1957 Nov 20 #17
To be clear, I'm firmly pro-Revolution, and glad it happened, and glad we won. TygrBright Nov 20 #20
I, like many who've grown up in the U.S. recieved a thorough indoctrination in school about how great the revolution Fil1957 Nov 20 #23
True. Without a revolution, there would not be a US/Canadian border tinrobot Nov 20 #21
One other thing I forgot to mention, we would be united with Canada. We'd eventually become an "independent" country Fil1957 Nov 20 #22
If the continent of America was much closer to England than 3,000 miles, OR ended at the Appalachians, there would have Fil1957 Nov 20 #18

hlthe2b

(112,597 posts)
1. Yeah.. Takes quite a bit of the luster off the "morally pure" motivations that some have abscribed to
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 05:24 PM
Nov 20

those colonial leaders and our founding fathers. Not that the very act of a revolution against an imperialistic megapower like the British monarchy wasn't amazing in the long history of the world, but to paint all as pure heroes sans any less benign motivations--especially with the backdrop of slave-holding and black fighters- has always had me a bit disbelieving. Then add the backdrop of the exploitation and cruelty toward Native Americans and... well.

It is complicated (as they say)...

It does make bearing the coming 250th anniversary celebration--with Trump-MAGA lies and reframing--somehow easier to accept. It seems it has always been so.

artemisia1

(1,308 posts)
7. Thanks for reminding me that Trump gets to preside over our 250th Birthday. I remember the Bicentennial very well and it
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:13 PM
Nov 20

was very well done. Now we are going to be parading a gold statue of the Donald through the streets in Philadelphia and have "exotic dancers" tweaking at the White House. No celebrations in the Rose Garden, though.

Solly Mack

(96,271 posts)
2. I've said it before - I don't think they, the FF, really understood what they were creating.
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 05:32 PM
Nov 20

K&R

Thank you. Really enjoyed reading your post.

canetoad

(20,053 posts)
3. Thank you
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 05:36 PM
Nov 20

For your detailed observations and thoughts. I've often mused about the beginnings of Australia vs USA and how we ended up with completely different societies. When this series becomes available, I intend to watch it with great interest.

obamanut2012

(29,125 posts)
4. Alexander Hamilton would be a Trumper
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 05:42 PM
Nov 20

Burr tried to overthrow the US Government once and should have hanged for it, but today? You are looking at someone like Vance, but smarter.

pecosbob

(8,296 posts)
5. I've only watched the first episode...I took notice of those two specific narratives.
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 05:53 PM
Nov 20

Firstly, just how land-hungry EVERYONE was at the time and secondly how often violence on the loyalists was a trademark of the rebels.

appmanga

(1,367 posts)
13. I'm surprised you're surprised...
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:53 PM
Nov 20

...landholding was not just the path toward wealth acquisition, but it was also (in most places) the path to suffrage. Wealth and being part of the political process were highly important. Last night's episode described how a person with enough money could avoid being drafted by paying someone to take their place, something that stayed possible even beyond the Civil War. The Revolution set the standard that for this country, wars will be fought by the poor under the leadership of their privileged betters. When we look at this country's history, it's almost the same thing over and over. The 19th Century had its industrialists and railroad barons, the 20th had petro-barons, financiers, and automakers, now it's the tech-barons and media companies. And the only time we do well overall as a society is when we pull and shorten the leash on the ultra-rich.

catchnrelease

(2,124 posts)
14. Land hungry indeed
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:58 PM
Nov 20

I've also only watched the first episode so far, but it really interested me that our 'beloved' founding father who never told a lie (I know it's a myth) first president George Washington was a land speculator West of the Adirondacks. So not only a slave owner but a land thief too.

I have always enjoyed learning about the real history of this country vs the cleaned up versions we learned in school. One of my favorite books was Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong by James W Loewen. And think of what it's going to be like in the future for students after the maga re-writers get done with it! I truly hope that doesn't happen.

tinrobot

(11,937 posts)
19. When you come from a continent where it's nearly impossible to own land...
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 07:39 PM
Nov 20

Owning your own land to farm is a really, really, big deal.

Quite a few immigrants came from places where they had to farm other people's land. The class system in Britain and Europe prevented them from ever rising up to become land owners.

Biophilic

(6,374 posts)
8. Yes, we have more than a few ghosts in our closet.
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:16 PM
Nov 20

Which, I believe, we might just be beginning to seriously face and, if we are very, very lucky and strong, begin to expel. This nation has some horrific shadows as well as some amazing strengths (our people).

Bayard

(28,322 posts)
9. I'm really liking this series
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:35 PM
Nov 20

I have also appreciated how First Nations issues are covered, how they started losing their homes as soon as greedy colonists showed up. The issue of slavery has not been sugar-coated either. Most of these men were wealthy landowners with mega-farms, and hundreds of slaves. The touting of freedom is ironic.

BUT, it is a good story.

3Hotdogs

(14,962 posts)
12. The smartest thing the King/Parliament could have done, give them (us) a vote in Parliament.
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:50 PM
Nov 20

The item before this body is the imposition of a tax on tea/paper. All in favor, signify by....

All not in support, signify by.....

The motion carries 181 to 13.

there, ya got yer representation.

cachukis

(3,611 posts)
15. Funny, you answered the question anyone might have
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:59 PM
Nov 20

visiting some off the track Texas or Oklahoma town. Why would anyone live here?
Land.

El Supremo

(20,419 posts)
16. A third one is how violent the colonists were.
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 06:59 PM
Nov 20

So far, is has only been touched on. But they were nowhere as violent as the French later.

I usually don't like revisionist history because it mostly disregards the mores of the times. Burns, as usual, has incorporated it again.

What I like the most is that he has corrected many of the myths as he said he would at the beginning. One example was the the Hessians were in poor shape after celebrating Christmas at Trenton.

Fil1957

(490 posts)
17. I've heard it said that if we lost the revolution, or there was no revolution every thing would be SO different. We'd
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 07:03 PM
Nov 20

be more British culturally and speak with British accents etc. Well that's not true. If anyone wants to know what America would be like in that situation, to find out, just go to Canada, that part of British North America that DID NOT revolt.

Informed by the Canadian experience, it's fair to say if there was no revolution, things would be pretty much the same with some differences. Slavery probably would have ended sooner. Instead of George Washington on the dollar bill, we'd have the reigning monarch on our currency.

We'd probably have a better health care system. We'd still would have gone to war as an ally of Britain in World War I and II, we just would have gotten involved sooner.

In most ways things would be about the same as they are now if we'd lost the revolution. For example, when Queen Elizabeth passed, American flags were lowered to half staff on government buildings. That of course, would still happen if we lost the revolution

TygrBright

(21,276 posts)
20. To be clear, I'm firmly pro-Revolution, and glad it happened, and glad we won.
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 07:43 PM
Nov 20

Frankly, the Brits managed to fuck up just about every place they ever colonized, and their imperialist greed and ambition wrecked the world in dozens of ways over more than four centuries. The list of their atrocities is easily as long if not longer than America's, if only because they were at it longer.

And look at them post-Brexit, with the money-laundering capital of the world dropped right onto their national capitol, co-conspiring with Russian oligarchs and Chinese billionaires. Not exactly a beacon of light to our common humanity.

Bless their hearts.

For all its flaws and all the turds in our punchbowl, at least America's aspirational vision of what we should be encompasses one of the world's more appealing concepts of equality under the law. And until our little oligarchic cabal enabled MAGA's xenophobia for their own benefit, we built our strength on diversity and welcoming migrants to make us stronger, smarter, more adaptable, more creative, and more flexible. It's always been our edge.

So, yes, for all its flaws, I still back those skanky old white shiteheels in throwing off the British yoke.

It's just a good bit of what we've done since that we could stand to clean up and make some serious amends for.

patriotically,
Bright

Fil1957

(490 posts)
23. I, like many who've grown up in the U.S. recieved a thorough indoctrination in school about how great the revolution
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 08:05 PM
Nov 20

was. In addition, I have ancestors who fought on the American side. One even received a gift of a small telescope (or spyglass as they called it back then) from General Washington himself.

But when I look at our country now, and who is in charge, I cannot honestly say the revolution was either good or bad.

I am an agnostic on the issue.

tinrobot

(11,937 posts)
21. True. Without a revolution, there would not be a US/Canadian border
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 07:47 PM
Nov 20

But I wonder if the westward expansion would have happened in the same way.

Would France still have sold the Louisiana Purchase? Would we have still acquired Texas and California from Mexico?

Interesting to ponder.

Fil1957

(490 posts)
22. One other thing I forgot to mention, we would be united with Canada. We'd eventually become an "independent" country
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 07:58 PM
Nov 20

merged with Canada, but the government would be a parliamentary system, and probably not in Ottawa, but somewhere more centralized. And of course we'd be part of the British Commonwealth.

Westward expansion would likely would have happened, but slower.

Fil1957

(490 posts)
18. If the continent of America was much closer to England than 3,000 miles, OR ended at the Appalachians, there would have
Thu Nov 20, 2025, 07:07 PM
Nov 20

been no revolution.

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