OK, you ban Semi-Autos, they start making them at home

[shintao]

Even if you could ban all the guns you hate the looks of, they can make a new one at home.

[img][/img]

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/12/open-for-business-the-3d-printed-gun-store/

[rhett o rick]

1. You cant be series. It's simple to pay out cash for a killing machine. Too much work

for the nitwits to actually do some work.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

2. That's why we have laws

In our hypothetical situation, the one where we ban all the guns whose looks we hate, there are also harsh penalties for running afoul of the ban. If you like your death machines so much that you manufacture them against federal law, then maybe life in prison just what the doctor ordered.

[shintao]

4. I would imagine you are right

After he masacres 30 children in a classroom, he will probably get life in prison

[DisgustipatedinCA]

8. yes, you're right. But he'll get 50 years with no parole just for possessing it

...no extra crime necessary, beyond possessing the banned firearm.

It's time we lock up these rabid motherfuckers and throw away the key.

[baldguy]

3. If you ban child porn, they start making it at home.

And if you don't think they're equivalent, then you didn't read or haven't understood the article you linked to.

[shintao]

7. Not sure where you went with that???????????

The article is about making 3-D guns, so I have no clue what you are reading. LMAO!

[baldguy]

19. Thank you for proving my point.

And thank you for displaying the abject stupidity of the standard RW points.

[billh58]

25. Another paid NRA/Gungeon

poster attempting to agitate and disrupt with diversionary bullshit. I wonder how the NRA pays them -- by the talking point, or by the post?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. So you are still saying "all gun owners have blood on their hands"

Even if they make them at home?

[baldguy]

23. Look at the premise of the OP.

Your reading comprehension skills are seriously deficient.

[NoOneMan]

5. Mass shootings would then ironically result in Darwin Awards

Its not the worse that could happen

[XRubicon]

6. Who is going to do that?

"Law abiding gun owners"? They'll need to keep it secret or go to prison, Maybe you mean "criminals"? They have that shit anyway - in your paranoid dreams.

[2on2u]

9. I've been making twinkies at home for a few weeks now.... hope I don't get caught. n/t

[jmg257]

10. OK you make a semi auto, you go to jail for say 10 years...how many

will want to make them? You possess an illegal semi auto, go to jail for say 5 yrs. Sell a contraband semi auto, go to jail for say 15years. Commit a crime with a banned semi...go to jail for say...20 yrs.

So what will these potential felons do with these guns after they take the great risk to make them?

[shintao]

26. What risk?

They are making them at home! You go shoot the school up and drop the gun and run. You make anew one tomorrow for robbing the store or bank with. No serial numbers, nada

[jmg257]

30. Yep - build an illegal gun, go shoot up a school, then run away...

All to do over again tomorrow but with banks! Wheeeeee

NO risks there!



Edit: but hey...if it lets you keep ahold of your myth that there is nothing we can do so lets do nothing....no fear...ssshhhhh...once they're illegal, you can always keep yours risk free...no one will ever know!

[AverageJoe90]

38. That's one of the things that worries me personally.

Unfortunately, there are indeed a few crooks with that kind of skill. If somebody gets murdered with a homemade weapon and if there's no fingerprints on it when it does get found, how will investigators be able to figure out who did it without already knowing who owned it first?

[bluedigger]

11. From the looks of it, we can worry about that in a couple of decades or more.

Just because one company in Texas has the capability and will to make some dubious lower receivers that fail quickly in real use is no deterrent to effective gun control.

[billh58]

32. When you use common sense

and reasoning, you're just not playing fair because it tends to confuse these NRA trolls. Like all Tea Party right-wingers, if you take them off of their NRA-prepared script, they tend to lose their concentration and become all flustered.

We need to use small words, talk s-l-o-w-l-y, and try not to laugh as that will cause them to become even more incoherent than they normally are.

With just a little practice, we CAN learn to communicate with them using the NRA dialect of troll gibberish.

[RomneyLies]

12. All this will do is end up having 3D printers treated lie high definition color printers.

You can print money on many color printers, so they are tracked.

[frazzled]

13. Feeble reason not to make a law

If we have traffic laws, people will still run red lights. Let's not have any traffic laws.
If we have tax laws, people will still cheat on their taxes. Let's not have any tax laws.
If we institute laws that prohibit murder, rape, arson, and assault, people will still commit crimes. Let's not have any criminal laws.
If we institute laws that prohibit dirty factory emissions, some companies will still pollute. Let's not have any environmental laws.

Sorry, but these excuses are not convincing. Reinstate the assault weapons ban (whatever version we can pass) now. Ignore all the "buts" and "you don't know the differences" and all the other bullshit arguments the gun proponents have been intimidating us with for years. We're not listening to them anymore. Pass some laws. Pooh.

[shintao]

28. Well why don't we just write a few red light, tax, arson laws?

That will do as much good as writing the gun law, even according to you. Maybe you can get creative!!! Write a law to install cameras in all registered gun homes, and hire a million observers to keep watch for you.

[backscatter712]

14. That's not a reason to give up on a ban. n/t

[Hoyt]

15. You mean gun owners aren't so friggin "law-abiding" after all.

[Taverner]

16. This is true.

Sad, but true

[XRubicon]

17. Who is They?

[Taverner]

18. They = people who have access to welding equipment

A friend of mine used to make guns.

Gunsmithing is not as hard as it might seem...


Just something we will have to account for, and prepare for...and by that I mean any gun legislation will have to address this issue.

[XRubicon]

20. Ok... I guess I need to adjust my tinfoil hat to your frequency

I'm sure he could weld up a semi auto uzi on a Saturday afternoon. Meanwhile back in reality, 3D printers that print in metal are very expensive and take intellect to operate (not an I phone app) so I am not worried.

[Schema Thing]

29. oh please. People just aren't very handy, in general.

most men could barely change their own oil anymore.

And so what anyway... the few who can build guns would take their sweet time learning and building. It certainly wouldn't be the NRA mass production/consumer situation we have now. And frankly, for the most part, something hand crafted is going to be treated like the heirloom it is.


I've seen the youtube where the guy builds an Ak47 out of a shovel. It isn't easy no matter how hard he tried to make it look like it is, and the guy knew his shit both about guns and about crude metal craft (which is far more rare than machining - and machining isn't all that common a skill).

[molonlabe91]

33. you need real men

I have no idea where you are from, but out here you don't drive until you can do a proper tune up. Real men don't visit salons, spas, or other places like that. Come out to the real world. I promise you will never want to go back.

[Schema Thing]

37. oh go away, troll.

[Matt_R]

49. I don't know where you live, but

you seem to be banned. So I have nothing else to say on the matter.

[ProfessorGAC]

53. Duh!

Just sayin'!

[spanone]

21. sounds like a threat to me....you can make dynamite a home to

maybe we should make that available at bomb shows.

[Mopar151]

24. Have you all been living under a bridge?

Long before 3-d printers existed, gun parts were made by "traditional" manufacturing techniques - casting, forging, andmachining.

Advances in machining have made casting and forging largely un-necessary for prototype and short-run work - I know, I have done this sort of work for 30+ years. Even detailed pictures to copy, or sketches by someone familiar with the gun (or suture inspection machines, or the machine that makes "Pictionary" boards) is enough for me to make one, given enough time and a couple machine tools that will fit in a gararge.

This is relevant to the discussion here - because an outright ban will simply serve to drive the whole mess underground. And besides, there are waayyy too many semi-autos and "bananna" clips in circulation to make a dent with seizures, without starting another "War ON" (say, Drugs, which has worked soo well 'til now....)

I think perhaps that we should look at reclassifying Semi-Autos capable of holding high-capacity clips (and the clips themselves) to a class which requires an FFL or similar, as machine guns are now. A "buyback" program for those unwilling to undergo a rigorus licensure program would be a fair thing to do.

[AverageJoe90]

39. Makes sense to me, Mopar. n/t

[bluedigger]

41. Indeed, handcrafting of firearms is not the problem.

The problem is common availability at cheap prices. Reclassify them and slap a prohibitive transfer fee on them (with proceeds going to buybacks). Make them unattractive to collectors and "hobbyists".

[Politicalboi]

27. Make it a 40 year sentence if caught with one

No if and or buts.

[pediatricmedic]

44. We already have one of the largest prison populations on the planet

How is this useful again?

[billh58]

51. We have one of the largest

prison populations on the planet because of right-wing, neoconservative, Republican, NRA-sponsored mandatory sentencing laws for non-violent crimes. This large prison population is decidedly racially lopsided as well. To these asshats, it's perfectly okay for a white guy to carry a fucking .357 in public, but don't let us catch you scary dark people with ANY amount of marijuana, or we'll either shoot you, or lock you up.

These false equivalency talking points from NRA followers are getting shop worn people. Please come up with something a little more creative could you?

[malz]

31. So we should do nothing, right?

[molonlabe91]

34. :-)

Nice looking pistol.

[XRubicon]

35. Do you have any children?

[billh58]

36. Awww, the nice troll

has gone bye bye to eat its pizza...

[bhikkhu]

40. Ok by me.

So nutjobs have to work a bit harder before their killing sprees, what better suggestion is there? Make it easier? Do nothing, like we just don't care? Pretend there are no killing sprees?

[drm604]

42. When you start your argument with a strawman like "guns you hate the looks of"

you lose all credibility right from the start.

It isn't about looks. Nobody thinks it's about looks. You're simply trying to divert the conversation and make your opponents look stupid.

Here's a clue. When you use idiotic talking points it isn't your opponents who end up looking stupid.

[billh58]

46. You would think that

trolls would have figured that out by now, but then again the Gungeon only has a few talking points to pick from.

[sir pball]

50. Except the last AWB and to an extent the currently proposed one

ARE about looks. Controlling semiautomatic detachable-magazine rifles "with such-and-such extra features" is a purely cosmetic metric. Flash hiders, bayonet lugs, threaded muzzles, even the Dreaded Evil Spray-Fire Pistol Grip add no practical function or usefulness to the rifle. I used to own a completely innocuous-looking rifle (Ruger Mini-14) that was entirely legal under AWB1 - it had no flash hiders, or bayonet lugs, or even a pistol grip. Old-fashioned wood stock, at a glance it looked like Grandpa's 30-06. Hell, my dad has a Browning semi-automatic 7mm Magnum, it's even less scary because the metal is dark blue.

And it's just as easy, fast, and effective to empty the magazines and reload either of them as it is the latest greatest Bushmaster. If you support the currently proposed AWB, you ARE for banning "guns you hate the looks of" (e.g. with a pistol grip or muzzle decoration). I'll admit I don't know your position specifically and you may very well simply and more logically consistently support blanket bans of detachable-magazine semi-autos - full stop. If you do though, you should be fully on the "looks" bandwagon for your own reasons.

[billh58]

54. More smoke and mirrors

from the Gungeon. Most people don't even know what those things that you mention look like, or what they do, and don't really fucking care. Recent polls show that most Americans want the carnage to stop, and they want guns that are meant for the efficient killing of children and their parents heavily regulated. That is called reasonable gun control.

Spouting NRA talking points about the technical details of what is, or is not, a fucking assault weapon is your only defense against the real issue which is the easy access to guns of ALL types. You can have your fucking semi-automatic, high capacity weapon, or any other gun, but you must show a definite need to own one, and if approved to buy one through a licensed dealer you can't carry it in public, you must register it, you can't sell it to anyone without going through a licensed dealer, you must show that it is secured as specified by strict regulation, and you must have valid liability insurance for the fucking thing.

And I don't care how many fucking doo-dads it has, or doesn't have. It's a killing machine, and serves no other useful purpose.

[billh58]

62. And once again, no one

gives a rat's ass about the technical specifications of a fucking firearm. If it is capable of semi-automatic, high capacity rapid fire it is designed to efficiently kill people. The general public has absolutely no need for any weapon that fits into this category regardless of its technical "functionality."

As for the "lethality" of these weapons, dead is fucking dead. Whether it was from a currently "legal" gun, or not, who gives a shit except you gun fetishists? When the final laws are passed, it will make absolutely no fucking difference what it looks like -- ALL rapid fire guns will be banned, or made extremely hard to purchase and own. You want a rapid-fire gun, then jump through the hoops Bubba.

As far as your "official" membership in the NRA, or not, if you support their policies and spout their talking points, then you're an NRA "duck."

Thanks for the offer, and I'm really, really flattered, but I'm happily married. Besides I don't fuck things outside my own species...

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Actually if you want good policy you should care.

I told as much to congress critter. I give a rats ass how the gun looks. I care about the internals of the firing mechanism.

If it can spit out 4-6 rounds a second instead of one...that is a huge difference. If we can reduce the rate of fire of the bushmaster to one round a second, I am good with it...incidentally that is the rate of fire of a hunting rifle that uses a manually operated bolt.

How the weapon looks will lead to BAD policy which once again will be easy to defeat by the gun manufacturers. A cosmetic change here or there and we're legal...once again...whoohoo!

[billh58]

70. Yes, my Queen. As you wish.

What part of "ALL rapid fire guns will be banned, or made extremely hard to purchase and own" did you not understand? Once again, I do not give a rat's ass what the fucking gun looks like, only what it is capable of.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. At a policy level you should.

I am not a gun nut, having been downrange from fully automatic fire, semi automatic and manual riffles I have a clue you lack.

I could care less how gnarly they look...and while I agree that a class III license would be best, I realize my prince what is possible. A well designed AWB might be possible...good policy design means you learn some of this shit.

I am sure you got no idea what a class III is, 1934 and how we death with the Tommy problem. Look it up, that is what you want...in the current environment it ain't gonna happen...due to the NRA. Would be a good policy goal to work for in a decade or so. By the way my liege have you donated to the Brady Campaign? They need money to be able to counter the NRA.

But if you think the actual workings don't matter, you are dead wrong. This is how good policy is written. See 1934 legislation vs it looks scary AWB I.

[billh58]

73. Oh, my. Another lecture from an "expert."

I spent two tours in Vietnam, and have been both uprange, and downrange. I know fucking well what it looks like, and feels like. Clue this. Since I came back, I have never held, nor fired a fucking gun again.

And yes, I am aware of the Class III designation, and actually there were still illegal "Tommy Guns" in the hands of criminals when I was growing up.

Now, as for the technical details about a killing machine, once again I could give a rat's ass. If they are capable of rapid-fire (as determined by a law, and your one round per second sounds like a fair measure) they should be banned. I don't care if they have bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, or any other cosmetic feature.

Now please go find someone else to lecture to, as I really, really don't give a shit what you think or say.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. So if you spent time in the bush

you know exactly what I am talking about and why it matters.

Now have you donated to the BRADY CAMPAIGN? What is more, do you even know who they are? If you do not, use the damn fracking google. Those are the GOOD FRACKING GUYS, and they need you damn fracking money to fight for GOOD SENSIBLE legislation.

And lecture... I only answered in the same frackling lecturing tone you took.

Oh and one last thing, if you think you will be able to BAN HUNTING RIFLES, that are manually operated, you are delusional. And I say that as one WITHOUT one. There are places in this country that you still need one...

[billh58]

75. Yes, I have

donated to the Brady Campaign, and MAIG -- not just once, but at least four times a year, including just over a week ago in answer to their recent campaigns after the Sandy Hook mass killings. I have been a member of both, and on their mailing lists, for years. So don't assume that I am just some armchair "Internet" activist.

And yes, you tend to lecture. I have seen your snarky replies to others all over DU, and I have never been one of your admirers. It appears, however, that we are on the same side of the guns issue, and for that I commend you.

This NRA-framed bullshit about the way a fucking gun looks, or how it is manufactured can not be the criteria on which gun regulation and restrictions are based. The regulations must be based on a weapon's potential fire rate, and its ammunition capacity. And that's only a start.

There must be strict regulations about registering ALL guns, background checks for ALL gun sales (including private sales), and extremely harsh penalties for using a firearm in the commission of a crime. These ridiculous SYG laws must be repealed, and the issue of concealed-carry licenses/permits for only those who can show a dire need.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. What you want is the extension of the 1934 laws

to all gun ownership in the country.

Politics is the art of the possible.

It is a laudable goal... but right now it is not possible. What is possible, if we strike while the pan is hot, is AWB, limits on clips and the big one, closing the damn gun show loophole.

And you lecture as well, so presume whatever you want.

Have a good day.

I will now proceed to trash this thread, since having rational discussions is impossible.

[RC]

57. It is the mind set of those attracted to the "Bushmaster" style, military knock-off, assault rifles.

The Rambo and Dirty Harry wanna-be's. Other than the sheer numbers, it isn't the semi-auto's themselves that are the problem. It is the 'look n feel' of the military knock-offs, that can easily be made fully automatic with the simple addition of rubber bands or a bump stock that feeds the fantasies of the people that are attracted to that style of gun, that are the main problem.
Think of the posters that want to arm the school teachers. Have armed security roaming the halls. Locked-down prison security in public schools. Think of the people that think because two weapons operate the same way, they are somehow the same. No, they are not! It is the look n feel thing that is the difference and the main problem.
Anything except common sense banning the military knock-off weapons that are being used in most of the massacres.
And while we are at it, we need Canadian style licensing and control of ALL hand guns. It is paranoia the makes people think they need one for home or self defense, when they are out and about. They only "need it" because other people think they also "need" to carry "protection" when away from home. More NRA talking points to sell more guns to an already over saturated populace.

We need to first neuter the NRA. Then we need to go after the weapons manufactures with heavy regulation on what they can sell to the civilian population. There is no reason we can not put the terrorist provisions of the Patriot Act to a good use for a change.
Just because it won't be all said and done by midnight on December 31, 2012, does not mean it cannot be done.

[pediatricmedic]

43. Have you seen the videos of the Pakistani gun markets?

They don't need fancy machine tools or 3D printers to produce thousands of firearms per day.

In the US where the average garage has better tools, we could easily produce tens of thousands of firearms per day. All of this unregistered and part of a black market. Not that we need to, we could import millions of illegal firearms per year without many problems, our borders are fairly open.

This will go just like the war on drugs, how are we doing on that again?

[drm604]

45. Other countries manage it somehow,

and we seem to be keeping full automatics off the market.

Do you have a cite for the Pakistan claim? What kinds of firearms are they producing?

[billh58]

48. Good choice of comparisons,

and a fine example of what a fucked up country we could become if we don't put the brakes on the proliferation of guns on our streets. Thank you so much for reminding us of why we need more gun control, and also for reminding us that Pakistan is one of the world's largest suppliers of heroin as well (war on drugs). Seems the two go hand-in-hand doesn't it?

And then of course, there's the Taliban who are just a short walk from getting their hands on the country's stockpile of nuclear weapons. Now that's the ultimate "cold dead hands" gun-rights wet dream isn't it?

Yep, Pakistan is to be commended for having such a large supply of guns for their citizens to use against fellow Pakistanis, and all in the name of Allah. I can just imagine the Westboro Church and its followers being armed, and praising God by killing gays with a semi-automatic assault weapon. Just gladdens the heart, doesn't it?

[RC]

58. +100 Good post.

[XRubicon]

61. Good luck Macguiver

Uncle Bob may be able to make a prison quality non repeater using his welder and a black and Decker drill but I don't see AK47's being mass produced like they are now.

[SoCalDem]

47. as long as it keeps them busy at home, maybe they will leave us all alone

[samsingh]

52. why don't we try the ban and then revisit it in 5 years

to see if it worked or not.

[wandy]

55. I used to think that it was only freepers and the like......

That were so gullible as to think that all you need do is set an AK-47 on you're flatbed scanner, press copy and have a fully functional gun pop out of you're printer.

[dembotoz]

56. remember heath kit radios

kits have been around for a long time

i work with small buisnesses
there are a whole shit load of small machine shops out there

with a set of instructions....
advertise as a father son bonding activity--teach the kid skill he will need to fight the socialist obamas.....


i bet it is already being done

i know a number of deer hunters who would LOVE to brag how they built their own deer rifle.

[ellisonz]

60. Bullshit.

[Nye Bevan]

64. Lanza would not have been able to (nt)

[rrneck]

65. It doesn't matter how good a weapon you have

as long as it is better than the other guys weapon.

[dembotoz]

67. or you use yours first

[rrneck]

68. True. nt

[Kaleva]

66. Why stick with semi-auto? It's just as easy to make a full auto weapon.

[Eleanors38]

69. Who'd thunk we would have computers made in a garage!?

No doubt a combo of technologies will make gun-making a basement proposition for men and women who can't change their car's oil; the major affect on when will be the decision to prohibit or not prohibit -- the former will speed things up a few months.

But in the interim you would need a huge, super well-funded, domestically entrenched smuggling empire to supply the product you picture in a reliable manner.






Know of any?

[NashvilleLefty]

71. Which means we should do nothing, right?

Just accept our fate and let innocent children be slaughtered, is that what you're saying?

Then again, if even one child's life is saved, isn't it worth it?