I've had it with this place

[loyalkydem]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by SYFROYH (a host of the General Discussion forum).

This place used to be fun. This place got me through the last 12 years or so. I would often come to this site to hang out with people i thought were truly progressive. I would hang out here, read articles so I could be prepared for when ever I would encounter a right wing troll.

Then President Obama got elected in 2008 and I truly felt that history had been made. That finally we can move forward. But then, I started noticing something that really concerned me. I started noticing democrats opposing the President at every chance they got.

Many would make excuses saying that he needs to do more. Or that he needs to step up his messaging. From 2009 to 2010, all I kept seeing from the hard left are attacks after attacks. If we stepped up and defended President Obama, we were told that we are "Obama apologist" of which I am proud to be an apologist.

But then I noticed another growing trend here on Democratic Underground, Obama naysayers. Oh they can pretend that they care, they hide behind comments like, "I can be a democrat but I am also critical of the President," or "I'm an independent and I love to critically think.

Some of the same folks who claim to be critical thinkers never give a reason why they are jumping on the President. Then what I feared the most happened in 2010. Progressives stayed home. I recently read that in 2010 only 20 percent of our total party came out to vote. Many of whom citing that they were disappointed in President Obama and that they felt he was not worthy of his vote. And as a result, many house seats switched from Democrat to Republican and Republicans not only took state houses but they took Governor ships as well.

Lord did I not realize how volatile 2011 would turn out to be for the democratic party. It all started in Wisconsin when Governor Scott Walker went after collective bargaining. He did not specifically mention that he would do that and it caused a firestorm on our side. Now, the entire time I was cheering on my union brothers and sisters I kept thinking, where were all of you during the mid-terms? Obviously you did not go out to vote during the mid-terms.

I couldn't help but recall this article, http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/72361-progressive-caucus-leader-warns-dems-may-stay-home-from-polls-over-health-bill. Going off topic for a bit, I remember my progressive friends being very upset because we did not get medicare for all. People kept accusing the President of listening to people like Bill Nelson who took Single payer off the table but eventually we got a deal only because of reconciliation.

But back to Walker, it took 9 months and a couple of law suits for us to finally get it on the ballot. Then Ohio Governor John Kasich tried the same thing with SB5 which was able to get on the ballot and be defeated. Then we went into 2012 and the election season.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Hillary Clinton, big time, but what pissed me off the most was the fact that people were calling for Hillary to be placed in the VP slot and throwing Joe Biden under the bus. I screamed for months that this wasn't going to happen and people kept telling me that "You're exposing yourself again."

I want our party to be unified behind our leaders. I don't care if it looks like we're kissing someone's butt. The election is over and its time to unite behind President Obama and stop this infighting in the party. it's getting me seriously turned off of politics and it's really making me not want to come to this site any more if every five minuets I have to see another anti-Obama thread in which I can't even tell if I'm reading it from an actual Democrat or if its a Republican pretending to be a democrat.

Please forgive my ranting, but I had to get this off my chest.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. We aren't republicans, we don't have to march in lock step.

I'm about as progressive as they come, and I've had plenty of criticism for the president, but I sure as hell didn't stay home in 2010, and I didn't vote third party in November, although the thought crossed my mind. Stop blaming us for wanting a better world and not settling for the status quo. I'm sick of it.

[madfloridian]

21. Exactly right, Blue in AK

[smokey nj]

59. Well said!

[TDale313]

60. Abso-fuckin-lutely. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

92. It's funny ...

you say, "We aren't republicans, we don't have to march in lock step", then wonder why we don't get republican results, i.e., lock-step opposition.

I understand wanting a better world; but understand ... It ain't coming yesterday. As a veteran of the Civil Rights Movement, I can attest ... It comes, in this democratic republic, in baby-steps. And, in my opinion, it is the baby-steps of progress that result in lasting change.

[UtahLib]

118. Very well said - and you didn't even have to scream it. I am grateful. n/t

[BlueStreak]

121. The Republicans are lock-step around their central philosophy

"Institutional Democrats", as opposed to the people who work hard to get them elected, are nowhere close to the principles their backers believe in.. You cannot expect us to link up in lock-step behind a set of governing principles that are only a little different from where Bush/Cheney were.

We were promised change, and that is what we expect.

[primavera]

163. But change didn't come about by itself

The Selma marches, the Stonewall riots, the march on Washington, Rosa Parks' bus boycott, all of these pivotal moments in history that accomplished for us the change that we enjoy today occurred because bold, visionary progressives refused to accept the status quo and demanded something better.

[roguevalley]

124. I am and always have been an extreme left leftie.

I am a LIBERAL, not a progressive. I have lived a long life and gotten the shit kicked out of me for it too. I have been a state and local union officer, helped teachers who were getting fired keep their jobs and stood up for LIBERAL views all my life. I am not a lock step goon. You don't have to agree with me and I would hope people have the courage of their convictions not to be passive. Civility I will always agree with. Group think, no. HOWEVER, I will have my say. I will have my thoughts and opinions. I am no spring chicken. I have a masters degree and I research what I believe. NO ONE has the right to step on that. I am tired of cry babies whining about how someone else thinks. Put them on ignore. The masses will route out the poseurs. But everyone else? NO one has the right to tell them what and how to think. Last time I looked, that was the difference between me and them.

Oh, by the way. Hi, Blue honey. How much snow did you get. I'm scraping about two feet off of stuff. Your post, Blue, was awesome. Of course.

[loyalkydem]

155. Thank you

This is what I started doing for those who start acting like I don't have a right to express myself. On ignore they go.

[limpyhobbler]

2. ok see ya

[darkangel218]

3. lol! nt

[loyalkydem]

4. because we can't agree is why I have a problem and I have every right to blame the source of the

problem.

[calimary]

6. Well, it sure beats some republi-CON underground!

Yeah, it gets a little bit rough around here. It's still a refuge for me, and some of the best sourcing and posts and manifestos I've read anywhere. Here's hoping you don't give up on us completely!

[cui bono]

77. The source of the problem is yourself if you can't stand to hear criticism

of flawed leadership and policy.

This is a place to get Dems elected and discuss policy. Not a place to fawn over a Democratic president even when he keeps moving further and further to the right, more so than Reagan on SS, and offers up old Republican policy as new Dem policy. If you can't handle it then you should leave. Although I have the opposite problem with this place. There are too many people who defend PBO even when he proposes and enacts Republican policies. They defend him just because, no real reason given except for the tired old "list" and "multi-dimenional chess" memes. They are empty and useless in any real discussion of actual results and current policy discussions.

[FredStembottom]

103. Thanks, cui.

Now I don't have to type all that!

You have to wonder what the point of this website would be if the only message was: Hurray for whatever policy comes along (so long as it is labeled Democratic).

As I always say, I am happy that so many DU'ers are economically well=off enough to view politics as an episode of American Idol. The rest of us need the policies that will save the very lives of our decaying friends and families.

Politics ain't bean-bag.

[roguevalley]

128. the op can 'blame the problem' but so what? they don't own the truth and

I am of the opinion that a lot of this kind of thinking comes from people much younger than me. I am afraid, youngin's that a lot of our posters grew up since reagan and the idea that you can have your own opinions and still be a dem might be a new idea. Or, they could just be wankers.

[1StrongBlackMan]

105. I often feel the same way ...

but lease understand ... there is an element of DU that may be Progressive; but are not, Democrats. There is another segment of DU that are Democrats; but are not all that Progressive. Then there's a third element of DU that are neither Progressive or Democrats; but rather, view the political world in absolutist terms (as exhibited by the gop) while braying of their independent thinking ... all the time puzzled why their independent thinking/action doesn't net the results of the lock-step gop.

It seems to me, many come to this board for the explicit purpose of denying their own real world reality ... In order to get anything positive done, you must compromise.

Hang in here ... Read the OPs, or linked articles, and merely scan the comments. You will soon see who posts fact and reasoned argument (some of which you will disagree with) and those that post hair on fire, speculative nonsense for the sole purpose of having something to say.

And to those seeing themselves in what I've written ... Yes, I am being intentionally dismissive.

[leftstreet]

5. Where is this 'hard left' of which you speak?

Perhaps it sailed outta here long ago on a Governor Ship?

[Doctor_J]

20. Hard left - people who want universal HC

oh, wait. That's 2/3 of the electorate. It must be the ones who don't want SS benefits cut. No, that's 60%. Maybe it's the ones who don't want pot users to clutter up the prisons. Nope. The ones who want some gun control? Nah.

This OP uses lots of Limpballs code words. He'll be happier at freeperville.

[leftstreet]

22. Sounds like a country full of commies!

It's a good thing we've got political parties to keep us all in line

[BlueCaliDem]

35. You should reread the post. It's clearly explained therein. I read it

so what's your problem?

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. Look in a Mirror. n/t

[Make7]

7. If the first black President can't even end racism in America...

... then what good is he?
[font style="background-color:#ffffff; color:#ffffff;"]Not intended to be a factual statement.[/font]

[Number23]

72. Could you explain your post, please?

'Cause it doesn't make even the tiniest, most microscopic bit of sense.

[Make7]

125. The President gets criticized for many things.

Some of which he has little to no power to do anything about [font style="font-size:0.9231em;"](like my unserious, idiotic, over the top example)[/font], and some that he has the ability to do something about and therefore deserves criticism.

Grouping all criticism in one category could make for a very frustrating DU experience - one needs to discern which criticism is worth discussing and which is worth ignoring.
[div style="display:none;"]http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002155714#post32

[roguevalley]

133. make 7, put them on ignore. since the ruling classes aren't even doing

our bidding after this last election, who cares? NO one on this board is going to change a damned thing by a comment. There are yahoos running around here who are talking up the sainthood of GHWBush. Slam them. THe rest? Who cares?

[Cha]

83. Oh for Fucks sake..

[Glaug-Eldare]

149. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:50 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Oh for Fucks sake..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2082910

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Unacceptable language

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Dec 27, 2012, 08:58 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

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[Cha]

156. Thanks

[Cha]

89. So that was sarcasm?

If so.. I apologize for my previous reply.. but, it's hard to tell sometimes.

[GodlessBiker]

8. I think we should unite behind the President, but criticize him when necessary.

We're not potted plants, you know.

[loyalkydem]

11. But every single thing he does?

[GodlessBiker]

13. Do people here really do that? Criticize every single thing he does? Every single thing?

There is some criticism, but I think that is healthy. The President should know we are looking over his shoulder as we follow him.

[loyalkydem]

14. I have one eye and I see it every single day

[Make7]

19. Remember the uproar when he signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act?

Yeah, me neither.

[loyalkydem]

50. Good point

maybe I'm worried for nothing. I'm just really worried that we're going to get our buts handed to us in 2014. I love my country and I love my party but I do not want to see Republicans take control of both houses.

[freshwest]

87. If DU is any example, yes, we will get out butts kicked out of government for good in 2014.

Thanks for a good rant and I appreciate your time here at DU. It is NOT a safe haven for Democrats or working to get them elected. The traditional issues don't matter to most, unless they can find something to terrify people with and end up with the same results as 2010.

I cannot believe most of the people doing the attacks were hurt by the GOP majorities, or they would not be saying as some have, that for 'this or that' they will not vote in 2014. I've read this on every big Obama bashing thread.

I know many people who left DU because of this and more who are not posting now. Even if someone makes a happy thread to rejoice of some good news or action, they are jumped on.

During the election some who posted campaign photos were so disrespected and name called that they left. That was during the campaign, and as soon as it was over, it began again.

And I don't think it's going to change, either. The so-called criticism is not fact-based for the most part, just a seething hate that looks for any issue to attack. There are never any solutions that work in the real world.

Calls for bloody revolution are not what the Democrats do. Calls for never compromising is not part of being in a democratic government where all persons are regarded as equal and their ideas hashed out.

The way Obama is being gone after is not based on what the reality on the ground is. Rather, it's an attack on his character, and then broad brush attacks on the Democratic Party from whatever angle they can be made. A false equivalency has been sold to Americans by media, CT pundits and Libertarians. And many here bought it,

I can only conclude some are not affected by the GOP's attacks on women, gays, emigrants, labor and many other causes. The GOP consistently go after to destroy so many people in our society, and the government itself, yet some apparently support the same things by standing by and letting them take power. Instead they keep on pushing the CT version that both parties are the same. Hell, no.

[defacto7]

126. ^this^

Well said!

[arely staircase]

108. I have read many posts where people

dismiss that accomplishment.

[Make7]

151. DU'ers criticized the President for signing that? Really?

I don't recall anyone doing that. Perhaps you could provide an example or two?

[roguevalley]

137. Uproar about Lilly Ledbetter here? Where? Just asking.

[RetroLounge]

113. Hyperbole

Look it up



RL

[roguevalley]

135. every single thing? Who are these people? All of us? I don't see it.

[loyalkydem]

9. Thanks calimary

I'm so frustrated with this place right now. It always seems the naysayers have the loudest voice around here and those of us who love and support the President are told to shut up and get in line

[Blue_In_AK]

12. I can't count the number of good progressive dems who have been TS'ed

over the past few years. You haven't been paying attention.

[loyalkydem]

15. I'll take your word for it blue.

I'm just terrified that the naysayers will do just like 2010, stay home and then we'll be in worse trouble for 2014. That's my biggest fear.

[Fumesucker]

27. That is not what happened in 2010

It wasn't the left that stayed home in 2010, it was the beloved centrists who couldn't be bothered to vote.

That ugly lie has been debunked so many times and yet still gets dragged out and waved around like a bloody shirt every time someone wants to take a jab at "the left".

[loyalkydem]

33. Then explain to me

why we lost so many democratic seats. explain to me why we lost so many governor ships?

[Fumesucker]

47. The centrists you love so much either stayed home or voted Republican

Why don't you try to inform yourself of actual reality before pointing the finger at everyone else?

This subject has been beaten to death on DU and still the lies keep flying, some here are every bit as bad as Fox Nooz.

[loyalkydem]

52. I do not accept that answer.

[Fumesucker]

78. What, you think the "fighting moderates" turned out in 2010 to do battle for sensible centrism?

You have been informed as to the facts, whether you accept them or not is of no moment to anything other than your rapidly diminishing credibility.

[leveymg]

142. Previously alienated voters -- poor, young - turned out in 2008, didn't in 2010. That's the pattern

that emerged when I looked closely at the numbers in VA, which is a purple swing state. It's not the politically active Dems (left or center) who stayed home, it's that those who had their hopes raised and let down went back to being alienated by the political process. Fortunately, most of them came back to reelect Obama this year.

One could say that had the left progressives been happier they would have worked harder at GOTV and gotten more of the disaffecteds to vote. Well, maybe. But, what at the centrists, how come they aren't equally culpable?

[cui bono]

80. Since you keep calling a group "naysayers" are we allowed to call another group "Obamabots"?

I refrain from doing so but should I if people are going to use "naysayers"?

[bahrbearian]

25. I'm going to alert on your post, because next thing I can assume is, you'll be posting the #7

[loyalkydem]

31. I'll do better than that. I'll put you on ignore so I don't have to deal with you

[bahrbearian]

41. I wasn't even replying to you

but don't let the door hit ya.

[BlueCaliDem]

42. Oooh touchy . . .

also a syndrome of the Emo-Progs.

[Blue_In_AK]

48. Oh, no, not the dreaded #7!!

[bahrbearian]

62. I knew you'd post that.

There is a lot of short term memory in this place.

[cui bono]

91. My experience is quite the opposite. The people who criticize Obama are talking about policy

that he is pushing for or enacting, or using those as examples and evidence, where as the people who don't want to hear it are the ones who are starting threads just to ridicule those with criticism of worry of PBO doing something like cut SS. I have been told several times that progressives are not needed. And usually I get replies that don't address the issue I've brought up but simply say if you don't like it we don't need you, or even just a stupid picture that says nothing of any substance.

I see a little of that from the people who are critical of PBO but only sprinkled in the mix of all the posts that actually talk about policy. On the pro-everything Obama does side I see the opposite ratio of a few posts that actually discuss policy sprinkled into a mass of posts made as insults.

[roguevalley]

144. + a zillion, Cui

[Bonobo]

10. "The election is over and its time to unite behind President Obama and stop this infighting "

Wait, I thought we were supposed to shut up BEFORE the election... I'm all confused now.

[Doctor_J]

16. Your rant contains an egregious lie

I kept thinking, where were all of you during the mid-terms? Obviously you did not go out to vote during the mid-terms

This is a lie, and I wish the DINOs would stop repeating it. Maybe over at Fox Nation it would fit in. The ones who didn't go to the polls in 2010 were the "Independents", whoever they are. the polling made this fact quite clear, and I personally don't know a single liberal who didn't vote in 2010. So the entire premise of this vanity post is bullshit. If I had to guess, the indys stayed home because in 2008 they were told to expect changes if Obama got elected, but instead, with solid Dem majorities in the House and Senate, almost nothing changed. Gitmo stayed open. Torture continued. Iraq dragged on. Afghanistan dragged on. We got insurance mandates instead of health care. The Bush tax cuts were extended. None of the banksters were prosecuted. No one from the Bush administration was prosecuted. Don Siegelman is still in prison. Pot smokers were hounded. And, finally, the president appeared weak by never challenging the Repukes who were soundly rebuked at the polls.

If you want the party to be unified, you should try to get the president to represent the whole party, not just the Wall Street branch. Check bvar22's tidy list of issues that could be addressed as a bone to the "far left".

Frankly you sound like a troll, and I don't think you'll miss DU that much, and vice-versa.

[A Simple Game]

44. Gee, you make it sound almost as bad as it really was.

By the way I am a non-affiliated voting liberal, and I haven't missed an election in about 40 years.

[Egalitarian Thug]

69. +1 and look at the choices made available to us. We have a binary system of 0/0. n/t

[forestpath]

95. +1 times a zillion!

[roguevalley]

145. + a zillion, Doctor J

[woo me with science]

17. The Third Way is trying so very, very hard...

to make this discussion about loyalty to Obama rather than what the party is actually doing.

How to co-opt a party into corporate, Third Way loyalty
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021488072#post73

Republican, Third Way, whatever
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=195078

[cui bono]

93. Exactly. Making it personal instead of making it about policy.

Then they get their feelings hurt.

[loyalkydem]

18. I'm no troll

I've been here a long time and I don't appreciate you disrespecting me like that. The nerve of some people like Doctor J to accuse me of being a troll when I've been posting here for years and voting democrat in every election since 1992 really makes me angry. I'm doing everything I can to keep from blowing my lid off.

[Doctor_J]

23. Maybe you should re-read the OP

and then re-think your "disrespect" criticism

[leftstreet]

26. 'voting democrat' It should be 'democratic'

You've been here long enough to know that

[Bonobo]

30. Whooops! nt

[roguevalley]

154. anyone who uses democratic improperly is a troll. your girdle snapped, OP.

we see you now for who you are.

[Number23]

43. Please don't let these people get to you

The entirety of their purpose and power lies right in this forum and nowhere else. Always remember that when you see the braying and carrying on.

On election day, I had a veritable rainbow of people coming into my office to check out the election results. Aussies, Brits, Filipinos, Americans, Indians, West Africans, Indonesians, you name it. And not one of them supported Romney and every last one of them thought that Obama has been the best thing for America in decades.

I had people telling me that they could not sleep they were so worried about a Romney win, people from all over the world FULLY believe in President Obama. So yeah, the naysayers have DU:GD and a couple of coffee houses somewhere. That's quite sad when you think about it and certainly explains their near-constant need to shit all over the man and his policies -- the louder you are, the bigger and more significant you'll look to anyone not actually paying attention.

People trust this man. And I am struck by the number of people -- educated, worldly people -- who've said that they actually LOVE him. The 100 or so here and in the "liberal" blogosphere that bring themselves to, errr... "release" by criticizing everything the man does ain't got nothing. And they know it too.

[loyalkydem]

65. Thank you or this post.

[Le Taz Hot]

51. Yeah, and those of us "on the left"

don't appreciate your outright exaggerations and lies. It's been pointed out to you REPEATEDLY that the left did not stay home during the 2010 elections. It's been pointed out to you REPEATEDLY that criticizing Obama's policies is not criticizing "every single thing he does" but only the policies on which we disagree -- like appointing a Monsanto lawyer to the FDA who then quietly just approved frankenfish. If you're going to throw out shit, be prepared for some backsplatter.

If you want to leave DU, then leave. This whole GBCW crap is just melodramatic foot stomping. Bye, already.

[cui bono]

97. What's GBCW? n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

122. Goody-bye cruel world.

[cui bono]

96. Is there a glitch in this thread coding or do you keep replying to yourself?

If it's not a glitch, when you reply you should reply to "this post" or whatever it says, not reply to "this thread".

[Le Taz Hot]

123. For someone who's "been around DU

for a long time," one would think he/she would know that.

[roguevalley]

150. actually, Loyalkydem, you are attacking anyone who doesn't agree

with you all through this thread. You call into question their loyalty to the party, etc. Then you get all bummed out when someone calls you a troll. I have voted all my life and always will. I will however not lock step for someone's policies and that is what people are discussing. If they were discussing Obama himself, it would be tombstoned. You can't call out people and not expect it back. I am insulted by your OP.

[cbrer]

24. NO

It's not about you, it's not about me, it's not about Obama.

We won the White House. Our party is the one for progress and humanity. So having achieved one victory we're off to the next goal. Troubleshooting ourselves and our systems along the way. As usual. This is how we opt for better ways of doing things. And improve those systems when in place.

We move forward.

Your input is important. Reconsider your view and let's put constructive criticism in its place.

Believe me...we have enough enemies OUTSIDE of our Organization.

Peace out

[loyalkydem]

28. I'll give this place one more chance

but the naysaying is getting seriously old and I don't know if I can take another four years of it.

[cbrer]

40. Brother, let me tell you...

As long as you stay a member of humanity, get ready for some frustration.

Get strong, stay strong. When your ideas are right, it helps put the bullshit behind you.

There's too much at stake. NEVER give up. EVER!!

[Cha]

46. Actually, imv, DU is

like two places. One for those who basically support the President because he has earned our trust. And, the other for those who don't.

So, you can use DU for whatever you want.. there's the handy "Trash This Thread" and the "IGNORE" buttons. For me, so far, there's still plenty of real political news going on to talk about.

Hang in, loyalkydem.. This is going to be a great 4 More Years and we Need our Voices Against the republiCONS.



http://theobamadiary.com/

[loyalkydem]

54. I wasn't aware of the trash your thread option

I'll start using that a lot more and although I shouldn't I'm going to start putting more of the Naysayers on my ignore list so I can fully enjoy this place.

[Cha]

57. There ya go

[loyalkydem]

63. Thank you

I just might start to enjoy this again and thank you for allowing me to vent.

[cui bono]

102. And that's exactly the game TPTB want you to play.

Us vs. Them within your own party. That's the wrong game. It's the people vs. TPTB. That's the real game.

As long as you take criticism of PBO personally and put us into two camps we'll never get anywhere and the 1% will get exactly what they want. Especially when those who can't stand to hear any criticism of PBO defend things that help the 1%, like cuts to SS. I never thought I'd see the day when Dems would defend cuts to SS but it has been happening here ever since PBO first brought it up.

As to trashing threads and ignoring, that's not healthy for a political discussion trying to deal with things in the real world. It's important to hear all voices on the left. What do you intend to accomplish by ignoring those who you disagree with?

[Egalitarian Thug]

73. Don't bother. We never really loved you anyway, why put up with the abuse?

[roguevalley]

157. BWAHAHAHA! Egalitarian thug, you are awesome. :D

[Permanut]

29. This isn't a one-size-fits-all, never has been..

I appreciate the wide range of opinion, rants, facts, BS, information, speculation and criticism I find here, and I have no problem in sorting through to find the posts that are the most valuable to me. I ignore the rest, although I seldom put anyone on ignore.

Just putting in my two cents to defend this community, because overall it is the single most valuable source of political information on the planet.

[Texasgal]

32. I'm so sorry that you feel that way.

Myself, I cannot seem to get too worked up over anyone that criticizes our President. I like the idea of "ideas" and the fact that DU is largely made up of free thinkers. It's what drew me here actually.

I support my President, and I have to say that I have not been happy 100% with some of the things he has done. I think talking, debating and understanding some of our issues are a good thing.

Peace to you.

[loyalkydem]

37. Thank you TexasGal. I appreciate what you're saying.

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Teddy's view of this.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

This is no less true today than it was when GW was president.

[A Simple Game]

58. I am glad we broke the color barrier and hope we break the gender barrier

before I am no longer here.

That said, there are many on DU that put President Obama before the Country and that is wrong. President Obama is no liberal and as far as I am concerned would make a better Republican than Democrat. I feel many here worship him because he is the first black President and that is wrong. Any President is only a bump in our Country's road and that is how it should be.

Worship at your own risk.

[DirkGently]

36. No one takes these "shut up critics" threads seriously. No one. Not ever.

[asjr]

38. Please don't give up on us. I've learned more on DU than I

have anywhere else in decades. I've been here 10 years and do not post much but I read almost everything that is written here. Where else can you go to write what you feel? Sometimes I think this is the fountain of "snark", then I read something especially nice and enjoy it. I sometimes think I may be on everyone's crap list to ignore but that is okay too. But if you have a real problem--ill health, death in the family--you learn you are in a family--DU family. They are the first ones at your service. Hang in there!

[MindandSoul]

39. I feel your pain!

I am also puzzled by the constant criricism of our President, and the lack of sensitivity or understanding of the hell he has been put through, not just by the extreme Right, but also by the extreme Left.

I do not know where balanced, middle of the road people can turn to, but Iam proud of what this one man has accomplished in spite of the hatred and the stated pledges to make him fail.

Te progressive have not helped, in fact, they in some way have joined in the stated purpose of making Obama fail.

Don't give up. Wo else but people like you and me can carry a balanced and uet progressive message here?

[roguevalley]

160. The constant criticism to you is other people trying to figure out what he's

doing. Unless someone says he's an ugly git, they aren't criticising him. They are discussing his ideas and whatnot which ACTUALLY AFFECT our lives. Given that. we have a duty to speak up.

[loyalkydem]

45. Thank you

for a long time, I truly felt that I was alone. I do feel a little bit better that I posted this.

[Enrique]

49. DU is ignoring FISA to protect Obama

what more do you want?

[Liberal Gramma]

53. I feel the same

DU has been destroyed from within.

[Dirty Socialist]

55. If you think this is bad

Check out the yahoo article about Hillary returning to work. Then check the message board at the bottom of that article. It'll curl your hair!

[loyalkydem]

56. I know about yahoo all too well thanks to Stephanie Miller

[Dirty Socialist]

138. I Can't get Stephanie Miller here

What does she say about Yahoo! Message boards?

[loyalkydem]

143. They mostly make fun of the right wing trolls who post on yahoo

If you got internet, download iheartradio and look for KTLA or if you got Current TV you can watch her on current.

[Purveyor]

61. The 'dancing on the graves' of those who have died or about to die has just about finished this

forum for me.

This place is doing FreeRepublic...proud, without abandon.

[BlueCaliDem]

64. You have every right to rant, and I'm 100% in agreement with you.

Remember, not all members here are Democrats. Many are Emo-Progs - people who listen to the bile from Ideological Purists like Jane Hamsher, Glenn Greenwald (although he's a Libertarian), and the oh so successful (NOT) Dennis Kucinich, and then come here and hate on the president. Sure, on occasion they vote for Democrats because, well, where else are they gonna go?

A lot of really good DUers, long time DUers, have left this place because of the vile and shortsighted vitriol against this president on a constant basis. It flows on a daily basis, blaming him for not being more of a dictator than a president. I've had more negativity from some DUers here than I get at Huffington Post for chrissakes!

I usually go to The People's View. There are a lot of Democrats there who have been here as well (remember Deaniac?), but who now go there because this place has gotten pretty toxic for anyone who has the unmitigated gall to support President Obama.

[loyalkydem]

68. Thanks for the link, going to check it out tomorrow

I knew i was not the only one who felt this way.

[cui bono]

114. LMAO!!! Wait a minute...

Emo-Progs aren't Dems?

Kucinich isn't a Dem?

What about Bernie Sanders? I think you left him out.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.............

I'm pretty sure you left off the sarcasm tag. You did didn't you? If you really were serious then I (kind of) apologize for my response and I usually try not to be too abrasive, but that was FUNNY!

[Egalitarian Thug]

66. So let me see if I understand your disappointment. We elect a Democratic Congress, both the

House and the Senate, in 2006. They proceed to give the simpleton in the White House everything he asks for and refuse to use the power we gave them to change anything.

So we elect a Democratic President with a greater majority than has been seen in 70 years and extend the Democratic majorities in both the House and the Senate based on a campaign promising hope and change. Then that newly minted President proceeds, not only to continue and expand the policies of his predecessor while simultaneously barring any options to pursue justice for the crimes committed by that administration, he appoints people that ensure that there will be no hope nor change for the foreseeable future.

But in spite of all this, we're supposed to back him up because he is a Democrat and things could be worse.

Really?

[Poll_Blind]

85. See, when you use facts and stuff like that...it just ruins it for everybody.

PB

[woo me with science]

131. Well, that about sums it up.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

67. Thus is Democratic Underground... not Democratic Circlejerk.

is a discussion and political debate forum. people are allowed to disagree to a certain extent.

[roguevalley]

164. awesome onetenthofonepercent

[RKP5637]

70. It's a big tent. Some days I like it that way, other days I don't, but I enjoy the

big tent. I see/hear all kinds of people under this tent. I have never fit in with those all wanting to be the same, so I like the big tent. Sometimes I like the craziness of DU, and most of the time I do.

[Samantha]

71. I am not an Obama naysayer -- I have written many positive things about him here

Last edited Thu Dec 27, 2012, 11:05 PM - Edit history (2)

However, when he was elected in 2008, in a speech on election night, as he ended it emotionally, he said some words like "You will not like everything I do." And then he said something complimentary like he had gotten so much more from the people in the campaign experience that he could ever give to them. I took his words to be simply honest and from the heart. I thought he thought he knew he could never live up to the high expectations of the masses. It is one thing to run a campaign, but it is quite another to govern.

I do not believe many people here heard these words or if they did, took them literally.

There is also the fact President Obama during the campaign never pretended to be liberal. I have always looked at him as closer to the Blue Dogs than the liberal camp. But he sure has done a great job against all of the adversity he has faced, and no one can take that away from him. I believe he will go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents we have ever had. And he has had some extremely impressive achievements; no one can take that away from him.

He also said "make me do it", referring to measures he might not be pursuing but which his base wanted addressed. He invited criticism; he invited pushing and shoving by his base. And that is all to his credit.

So perhaps you might like to think about these things for a moment before you become totally disheartened about the way the people here at DU criticize the President. I myself am really taken quite aback about the chained SS COLA but never in my small world have I thought it is all about me. It is just like President Obama says (shades of the Rolling Stone) -- you can't always get all that you want.

I hope you stick around. You are going to need DU again. We all go through these cycles you describe....

Sam

[loyalkydem]

75. Thank you for your kind words Sam

The more I hear from people like you the better I feel.

[SidDithers]

74. Take heart that a thread like this one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022042825

in support of Obama can garner 280+ recs. there are more DUers who feel as you do than you think. They might not be the loudest DUers, but they're there.

Sid

[WilliamPitt]

76. 11-year DU veteran.

Funny how the "new normal" requires one to be ashamed to be a Democrat.

Used to be a point of pride.

Still is.

Because being a Democrat is nothing to be ashamed of.

We have a lot of work to do.

But because that work HASN'T ALREADY BEEN ACCOMPLISHED WHAAARGARBLE...

...some look to piss on the laborers for not finishing the bridge.

Yet.

Any jackass can tear down a barn.

It takes an activist to build one.

So.

Grab a shovel.

[Fumesucker]

90. And any jackass can lie about easily verifiable facts

Like who stayed home and who voted in 2010.

If you want to lessen divisions on DU then stomp on people that lie about who votes Democratic and who does not.

[serbbral]

79. BRAVO!

I hear people constantly talking about staying home in 2014, repeating 2010 all over again. When I hear that I think about what Michael Eric Dyson stated on the Ed Show, that Obama NEEDS a cheerleading section. He needs people in Congress who are willing to work with him, not against him at every turn. Stay home, DON'T COMPLAIN.

[loyalkydem]

81. Welcome to DU

thank you. You summed up my entire reason for posting this. My biggest worry as I said over and over again is that Republicans will gain more seats and thus will make President Obama's last 2 years hard to get anything done. I'm already seeing signs of this.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

82. This isn't a monarchy.

I'll criticize the president whenever I damn well please.

[loyalkydem]

84. Just like I have the right to ignore people like you

[TDale313]

94. Exactly.

You're not gonna get everyone to agree. We shouldn't all agree with the President on everything. If a thread really bothers you, trash it. If someone makes comment that you find irritating, put em on ignore.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

104. Suit yourself.

[GeorgeGist]

86. Obama describes himself as a moderate Republican.

[elleng]

88. I agree.

Thanks.

[L0oniX]

98. Is there anyone who is above being criticized? NO!

No one is perfect. Anyone who thinks they are above being criticized is a self important egotistical sociopathic asshole. No political party will ever get better without criticism and or introspect.

[union_maid]

99. Thank you

Great post. Thank you. I could not agree more. And, for me, at least, it's not about not being critical about decisions with which you don't agree. It's about attacking with as much vitriol as that which comes from the right.

[MotherPetrie]

100. Here are my criteria: If I criticized BUSH for doing it, I'm gonna criticize OBAMA for doing it.

Because when I get screwed over, it actually hurts more when the screwer has a D after his name.

[AlecBGreen]

130. yup

I donated to, knocked on doors for, called for, and voted for President Obama (twice). That doesn't mean Ill take BS from him (or any other politician) lying down.

[quinnox]

101. Maybe its time for the Barack Obama group to make a comeback

I know there are several Obama devotees who get very upset when anything is said that is not admiring or glowing or even is a little bit negative about their grand and near perfect image they have of their beloved president. The BOG was a safe haven where strict control was in force so no unpleasantness was tolerated or allowed to be said about Obama. This is the kind of supportive environment that perhaps these especially sensitive folks need.

[AverageJoe90]

106. I used to be a regular Obama critic myself before joining DU.

I hear what you're saying. TBH, I definitely CAN understand the frustration that many are going thru, but it would be nice if we could try to unite behind our President for more than just elections and stuff.......

[AlecBGreen]

139. sure, we all want that

"...it would be nice if we could try to unite behind our President for more than just elections and stuff..."

if he proposes something I agree with, I'll get behind it. If he pushes things I oppose, I will oppose them.

[loyalkydem]

109. I never knew we had a BOG here on DU

what happened to it?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

158. See

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1102

[ywcachieve]

110. loyalkydem, I co-sign everything you said. I too, am a Democratic loyalist.

These folks here will not be satisfied until Repubs control Washington, again. Then they will be happy.

Weeks after his 2009 swearing-in, Dems went to work, trying to snatch defeat from victory. So-called Democrats were bashing President Obama because he could walk the water, and perform other miracles.

[TransitJohn]

111. Obama himself told us to hold his feet to the fire

Your ranting is nonsensical.

[loyalkydem]

112. My ranting is just as important to me as it is to anyone else Transit

I don't have to put up with you or anyone who thinks like you either

[AnotherMcIntosh]

115. There is a Barack Obama (Group) which is more in line with what you have in mind.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1102

[loyalkydem]

116. Thank you for posting this. Bookmarking

[cui bono]

117. LOL. Your bubble is just yourself? n/t

[ywcachieve]

119. I would like to find a POSITIVE Democratic site, too.

This place is so negative about all things Democratic.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

159. Simply go here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1102

[loyalkydem]

120. Check a couple of post up

a few people did post some good sites that I plan on checking out tomorrow, but you're right this site has become so dreadfully negative that I have started using my ignore button more and more and I will be using my trash thread feature more and more.

[Honeycombe8]

127. I hear ya and know what you mean. Hopefully it'll get better.

But I'm thinking of leaving the forum for a while, too.

[stupidicus]

129. says the cat that's been herded

and that seemingly thinks everyone else should just sit down and shut-up if we can't support everything our elected leader does or says.

it sounds to me like you think we should all be like the Bushbots I've battled for so long

but hey, it's not like rightwingers have a monopoly on that kinda thinking or action, as you made abundantly clear here

I always provide clear and concise reasons why I'm jumping on BHO, as do all the others I read around here that do.

What's the matter, have you found your "we should rally around the guy no matter what he does" spiel to be inadequate as a defense of or for most of those criticisms?

Of course you have.

ANd the "hard left" is a figment of your imagination stemming from you failing to notice the rightward drift of the dem party in DC.

It's also a put down rightwingers use to hide their own extremism and extremists. You aren't supporting that drift rightward, are you, with this none too subtle dig at those of us that represent what dems use to be and pursue?

Your "apologies" aren't a case for anything but your willful acceptance of that rightward drift. I can only speak for myself, but I'll try not to miss you if you say "toodles". The last thing we need is having people like you around telling us how much we do or don't care. We criticize because we do care.

that's really complicated, ain't it?

[ywcachieve]

132. President Obama won a second term, IN SPITE OF YOU GUYS,

attempt to sabotage his presidency.

[loyalkydem]

134. stupidicus You can go on ignore too

That way I don't have to be subjected to your insulting rant.

[stupidicus]

148. thanks for conceding the validity of my remarks

and like I care about being ignored by someone who can't/won't defend their work.

I do however find it highly amusing that after posting that insulting indictment of those of us who dare to criticize BHO over this and that, that the only defense/justification for it you could muster was that kind of projection..

[Big Blue Marble]

136. Are we loyal to our values or loyal to a single person?

We are about living in sync with our deepest values. We care about those
who society leaves behind, the children, elderly, the minorities, the poor,
and the ill. We support unions, the workers, and women.

These are the values of the true Democratic Party. It is Obama and
the establishment party that have turned from our values. They are
willing to sell out the traditional values of our party to the oligarchs.

Clarify where you stand and what you stand for. It is it a person or is
it a party? Is it your values that matter or loyalty to the president?

[Chemisse]

140. I really wish we could all be happy with our president.

And sometimes it seems that people are scrambling to find ways to post negative things about him, just because it is so darned fun to complain.

But then he does something that would make Reagan blush, something that makes it very clear that he is right of center, at least by traditional ways of measuring. And much as I would like to gloss it over and think it is all some part of a grand plan, I really can't just ignore it.

I too am annoyed at those who attack him with such glee. But, on the other hand, I can't condone giving him an auto- rubber stamp of approval, just because I want everything to be made of hearts and roses and little wagging puppy tails.

[loyalkydem]

147. Thank you

this is why I started this thread. Because there's a sub set on here determined to attack the President over "anything" and if we step up to defend him, we're told to shut up and we're told to leave when we don't like what's going on. Well I'm done being nice, people that don't like what I have to say, they can go on the ignore list. I'm going to start treating democratic underground the way I treat facebook.

[xxxsdesdexxx]

141. I agree with every thing the OP said. K&R.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

146. I think we are unified. BUT, why not have open and multi-faceted discussions about every thing

and anything we want to talk about here? Including the pros and cons of what Obama does and doesn't do.

Otherwise, why bother even being here? I am definitely not interested in being involved in a forum where everyone blindly approves of everything Obama says and does and where opposing viewpoints are squelched. No growth and intellectual thought there.

I think we are unified - but not lemmings.

[loyalkydem]

152. Here's what pisses me off

People react to "rumors" not an official that's about to be voted on. Now if we all reacted to something that is actually going in front of both houses then yes I can justify the criticism, but to react to rumors something that may or may not get brought up for a vote? Really

[stupidicus]

162. that be right

there's likely not a poster here that didn't vote for BHO, and many of us did so despite all of the complaints we had prior to voting for him.

this is the same kinda stuff I read and was fed here pre-election for being critical of this and that.

These efforts to silence dissent are about as "undemocratic" as it gets, and contribute far more to people losing interest around here and in the wider political arena than anything that will result from the dissent itself.

That seems to remain beyond the grasp of far too many. And besides, there's nothing inherently bad with conflict, because that's how problems are solved.

That's Comm 101...if I remenber my college coursework accurately

[thelordofhell]

153. President Obama made time travel easier

[NeeDeep]

161. Don't forget their are those who are paid to come and kick sand

paid shills by every right wing/corporate group on the campaign trail. Paid by the posting, paid to call radio talk, paid to confuse and demoralize. If you've gotten thru that minefield, your tried and true. Keep eating your spinach!

[aikoaiko]

165. Locking.

Sorry for the late lock, but this OP is a more appropriate for meta than GD. Please repost there to continue the discussion of DU.

[loyalkydem]

166. That is so very true

they had me so rattled up tonight I forgot that some people on here may not actually be democrats.