It's clear now. Our military will carry out illegal orders.

[2 Meow Momma]

Maybe not all, but I think I heard that a 3 star general relayed hegseth’s order to kill them all and soldiers carried out the order.

Do we trust that soldiers won’t “shoot them (protesters) in the leg” if the order is given?

[Irish_Dem]

1. What's next? "Kill them all" orders on US soil against Americans?

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Is it clear?

The boat attacks so far have been carried out by a handful of people (drone operators, pilots and their chain of command)- not sure how you generalize that to every service member in every branch, especially when there have been several reports of both CO’s and enlisted making statements affirming they would refuse to carry out illegal orders.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

4. Thank you,

the OP is branding most service men and women as, well, for want of a better word, criminals and that's just pure, unadulterated bullshit.

[2 Meow Momma]

10. Ok, some carry out illegal orders and some don't.

I agree that I was painting with a broad brush.

If some do and some don’t, what might that mean for those in the streets that are in the way of traffic or in the way of t*ump holding his upside down bible? What percentage of military carrying out illegal orders would it take to significantly change freedom in this country?

[slightlv]

14. This is what i have

Against the "modern tech army." It makes killing and war seem like a video game. It makes it too easy to kill people. I'm glad in that it protects our soldiers but not everything needs a hammer.

[paleotn]

15. Thanks. It's like they WANT things to get out of control.

They NEED things to get out of control. Some kind of strange psychology not limited to the right. It's like the flip side of rightwing "FEMA camps" freak out during Obama's admin. Some on both ends of the political spectrum seem to feed on fear for some strange reason. If they can't document it, like the OP apparently cannot, they just make it up from whole cloth.

[Bev54]

22. Apparently carried out by Seal team 6 members. Should they not know better?

[bucolic_frolic]

3. This was as much trial balloon as incident. / nt

[yaesu]

6. All involved should go to prison for a very, very long time. Lets hope an international court will get the ball rolling

this fascist country needs to be spanked, hard.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

7. Trashing this thread for the nonsense. nt

[sop]

8. Remember the U.S. soldiers who gunned down civilians from Apache helicopters in Baghdad back in 2007?

The airstrike killed 12 civilians, including two Reuters journalists. In a follow-up strike the crew fired on a van whose driver was attempting to help the wounded, killing him and wounding his two children in the vehicle. The classified video footage was later leaked to WikiLeaks by U.S. Army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning, and released to the public in 2010 under the title "Collateral Murder."

The video and audio, which included the crew's casual commentary and laughter, caused a global outcry and prompted human rights organizations to call for an independent investigation. No legal action was taken against the Apache helicopter crews. A U.S. military investigation concluded the actions were justified under the rules of engagement. The only person to face legal consequences was Chelsea Manning, who was arrested, convicted and sentenced to 35 years in prison. Manning's sentence was later commuted by President Obama.

[RockRaven]

9. It has always been clear that some will. Look at US history, ffs.

The only question was amount/degree/rate.

[Dan]

11. Some might not shoot,

Some will shoot them in the legs,
Some will shoot them center-mass,
And
Some will die.

[erronis]

12. And some will shoot with malice and glee. ("When can we start using these?")

[paleotn]

13. Soldiers? What were they doing? Swimming?

Last I checked, Army guys could drown in a wading pool. (interservice humor)

The key here is...."I think I heard that" Or are you hearing what you want to hear and extrapolating from that? Link? Evidence?

[2 Meow Momma]

21. I should have written "service members", not soldiers.

Glenn Kirschner has a podcast in which he interviewed Former JAGs Working Group Dan Maurer. They’re the group that opined that the killing of the 2 survivors constituted a war crime. My info on the “I think I heard” statement came from him. It was hard to believe so I stated my post to reflect that it was hard to believe. He didn’t give evidence but it does seem like hegseth would give an order to someone that is in command of whatever military service is in charge of that operation. Just makes sense, so it’s very uncomfortable to think that other than hegseth, several military personnel are carrying out orders like this.

Edited to say in addition:
So as you can easily find out, I didn’t make anything up as you accused in an above post. You can hear it for yourself. Also, I REALLY don’t want our service members carrying out illegal orders and causing that kind of chaos. I’m one of those in the streets (or on the sidewalk where it’s legal) but it would be stupid to not consider the possibilities of problems that might arise.

[duckworth969]

16. Even if once is too much, two words: Kent State

[LilElf70]

17. Two words

Supreme Court...


Does no one believe in the constitution any more?

[AverageOldGuy]

18. Two other words:

My Lai

[Aussie105]

19. It is a worry.

For every soldier who refuses an illegal order there are 10 who have been trained to not think, who will do it.

The whole 'do not follow illegal orders' has never been tested in real life.

If you are relying on young males trained to blindly follow orders to have a clear and ethical internal dialog, I have some bad news for you.

American soldiers ordered to shoot and killing American civilians? It has happened before and will again.

[COL Mustard]

20. And that Admiral

Received a fourth star a month later, and overall command of US Special Operations.

[2 Meow Momma]

24. Thank you! I thought I heard that right. nt

[BaronChocula]

23. Thus far we have

police shooting protester with "nonlethal measures." Fascism is a slippery slope.

[Blues Heron]

28. We have them shooting live ammo at protesters not just non lethal. They shot a lady five times and she lived

It was in chicago

[BaronChocula]

31. Yes but

I was responding the event of peaceful protesting. Ms. Martinez wasn't even protesting. The thugs are accusing her of impeding an arrest by blocking their vehicle as well as endangering them (of course). According to Martinez's attorney, bodycam and witnesses confirm thugs rammed her car making first contact. So according to her side this was just a case of blatant deadly police misconduct.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. 28 of 77 national Guardsmen shot at Kent State, the rest refused.

There was a number of guardsmen who turned around and refused to shoot at them. Only 8 lower level people were eventually charged but got away with it. The officers who were there stated that they had not ordered the shooting order.

If you can’t charge people for killing and wounding innocent students inside the U.S., it doesn’t look too promising. They knew exactly what soldiers were there. Although I believe that Nixon was President at the time and we know he was a lawbreaker. It may have had a different outcome if someone else was President.

[Bread and Circuses]

26. That's my thinking too. The military will kill civilians in the US.

Yes, a few may refuse orders . But most just follow the alpha dog.

[Blues Heron]

27. Correct, there are no orders the military will not follow - which boat strike did they refuse? None of them

Trump could order them to nuke Canada and they most definitely would.

[WarGamer]

29. The problem is... WHO judges legality?

JAG?

Judges?

SCOTUS?

[PragmaticLiberal]

30. I actually believe soldiers wouldn't carry out that order.

Well let me rephrase that: MOST soldiers wouldn't carry out that order.

[LexVegas]

32. Jesus Fucking Christ.nt