As a 60 year old retired teacher and father of a grown daughter, something with the Epstein still troubles me

[Chasstev365]

Yesterday on DU someone posted a heart wrenching 30 minute interview with "Katie Johnson" from 2016. I.am in NO WAY BLAMING THE VICTIMS, so don't accuse me of it! I am just genuinely puzzled by the following:

How can a 13 year old fly in NYC alone and the parents were fine with it?

How could they not know where they were staying and whom they were with?

How could the 13 year come home and appear fine after being sexually abused?

How could a 13 year receive payment and the parents not know that they suddenly had $100's of dollars of her own money?

We raised our daughter to be savy about things and have what I call a BS detector. I always instilled in her what John Lennon sang in I'm Stepping Out": "If it don't feel right, Don't Do It."

I'm just struggling to understand this horrible exploitation. .

[yardwork]

1. Some parents are bad people.

[malaise]

3. THIS

Rec

[OldBaldy1701E]

7. Completely and 100% THIS.

But, a solid and decent same-sex couple cannot adopt anything other than a cat in some states.

Just remember that amazing line from the movie Parenthood.

(You can skip to 1:40 if you want to skip the scene and just hear the line. But I recommend watching the scene. That movie needs to be shown in every maternity ward every day, in my opinion.)

[Chasstev365]

21. I've often thought of that scene from Parenthood, but still...

[OldBaldy1701E]

23. You also worked at a school.

When I was working, one thing that amazed me was just how true that last statement is. And, this was a private, Catholic school.

Okay, here is a short one.

I was working in the after school department at the time, and a parent had just arrived to pick up their child. I also had one child sitting on the bench by the window because her parent had called and requested them to be ready when they arrived. (Valet childcare, how wonderful.) The child sitting at the window watched as the arriving parent came in and signed her child out. The child came from the back and they hugged and walked out of the door. I could hear the parent asking the child how their day went and what fun things did they do. The child was all energy as they talked about their day and the parent was attentive and engaged with what the child was saying. It was then that I noticed the child sitting on the bench. That child was watching all of this and waited until the pair had gone from sight before they turned back around in their seat. I watched as they sat in silence for a moment, and then, quietly (but not so quiet that I could not hear what they were saying) said, "Huh. I have never seen that before."

They were referring to the fact that the parent was actually listening to the child and talking about what the child was talking about. As I had gotten to know the family of the bench sitter, I understood their confusion. That family was far more interested in appearances rather than actually raising their kids. A very well off family that had deep ties to the power elite in the city. But, only on the outside.

Sadly, there were a number of those parents at the school. If something like this had come up, I have to say that I would not have been overly surprised to learn that those parents had no idea about any of it..

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Not all parents are like you.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Many grown ups are steeped in their own drama

or assume their kids' lives will be by destiny mostly like their own. The parents are not in tune with the culture and trends that subsequent generations face.

[haele]

11. Definitely this. Many young people enter parenthood as emotional 7 year olds.

They aren't really capable of feeling maternal/paternal or taking responsibility for themselves, let alone another being.

Having kids was either forced on them as "one of the things they do to show they're grown up" or they got pregnant and either couldn't or wouldn't get an abortion and go on growing up.

[Ilsa]

5. These girls probably felt ignored or unloved by

their parents, and sought approval from other adults.

Some of those girls knew they would need to be able to support themselves very soon, and a massage license would provide them with a decent income without a college degree. The parents no longer had a teen begging them for money, why ask "why"?

The girls' brains were still very immature and gullible, exactly what Maxwell and Epstein needed to supply their sex trafficking business.

(No judgment of you.)

[allegorical oracle]

8. Some teens (male or female) can be immaturely sure that they know more than

their parents. Plus, as one child psychologist put it recently, "Their brains aren't fully baked, yet." Seemed to me that Katie may have had uncaring or troubled parents, so she struck out on her own and encountered vicious predators.

[Swede]

6. Epstein and Maxwell scoured the world for girls that were vulnerable.

They were very good at that.

[hlthe2b]

9. I agree that she had irresponsible parents who may well have ignored her. But the question about appearing "fine"

after sexual abuse (sorry, Chasstev365, but I have to call that out as it shows you know little about sexual abuse in either gender, but especially in young girls). They almost always feel overwhelming shame, and in some cases, they may have been threatened. The power differential between an incredibly wealthy, established man and his enablers, AND a 13-year-old girl who apparently has little in the way of adult supervision, is almost infinite. Who do you think she would go to? As you have already pointed out, she had little in terms of parental supervision.

So, please think about the latter. Otherwise, you come off as either not believing her story or blaming her for being the victim. I know you don't believe that, but that is how such comments are frequently perceived.

[Chasstev365]

12. I knew some would attack me for this

You are right that I may not fully understand the ramifications of sexual abuse; I admitted that when I said I was genuinely puzzled by these events.

However, how dare you accuse me of blaming the victim! Blaming the parents, absolutely, but YOUR perception that I blamed the victims of way off base!

You have ever right to express your OPINION, but its just an opnion, just like my opinion.

[hlthe2b]

13. I did NOT attack you. I tried to educate you. In fact, I stated "I know you don't believe that.."

in reference to victim blaming. You need to re-read what I ACTUALLY wrote and consider that, rather than reacting in such a defensive manner.

And NO, what I wrote is not mere opinion. I worked on a counseling and suicide hotline for two years in college with these and many other victims. I know what causes MANY of them to not report. Not to mention that there is actual PUBLISHED data on this issue. Don't believe me? Go ask to speak to the unit at your local police department that deals with these young victims.

[Chasstev365]

14. You strongly implied it

[hlthe2b]

16. You just confirmed that this is an issue about which you are needlessly defensive but need to self-educate.

Accusing me or any other DUer for merely trying to give you both the benefit-of-the-doubt and to educate you about an issue about which you clearly are lacking information and background only proves the point.

Again, you were not attacked. I agree that you did not mean to blame the victim.

[Chasstev365]

18. OK; perhaps I over reacted. Thanks!

[hlthe2b]

19. Have a nice day

[Irish_Dem]

10. Abusers are able to target children without protection or supervision.

Even intact families with parents who are out to lunch for one reason or another.
Work, drugs, booze, mental illness, etc.

Serial killers and rapists are notoriously good at identifying these kind of children.

Also Ghislaine targeted the beauty pageant girls with ambitious parents.
Gislaine told the girls and the parents she was going to introduce the girls
to men who could further their pageant dreams, etc.
The parents apparently bought the story.

Some of the girls may have been told they were going to work on the island. The money
may have been good so the some parents didn't ask too many questions,

Yes children can be brutally raped and appear somewhat normal afterwards.
They have been threatened perhaps, or told to keep quiet as it is part of the pageant process, etc.
Or that their parents will be angry with them.

Generally abused children will not talk about what happened, they are scared, shocked, traumatized.
But you will see it in a big change in behavior, not eating, sleeping or becoming withdrawn,

The girls could say they did some work on the island to make money, or some of the "pageant donors"
gave them the cash.

Bless your heart Chass, you are quite naive about how cunning and diabolical these rapists were.
And how they cooked up the stories they needed to provide cover for their crimes.
And how some parents are indifferent or too busy to give a damn.

Also the psychological reaction that children have is well known.
They just shut down and won't talk about it much.

If you recall, Trump concocted an elaborate scheme to convict E Jean Carroll to be alone
with him in a dept store dressing room. That he was shopping for a girlfriend and tricked
E. Jean with that story so he could rape her. She is a sophisticated, smart adult woman and fell for it.

The same with Story Daniels, who kicked herself when she realized Trump had tricked
her into being trapped in his bedroom with guards at the door.
And she is a very bright woman of the world.

So tricking girls and their parents would be easy for the rapists.

[Justice]

15. One survivor's mom had cancer

Epstein said he would get her into great doctors if she cooperated, and later threatened to exclude her mom from best doctors - said he knew the doctors and would tell them to not treat her.

[debm55]

17. Some parents don't care.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. The curtain is beginning to open.

I think many of us have a hunch that there is a dark culture hiding in the shadows and pulling the strings. The abuse of children doesn't just come down to sexual abuse, but in Sarajevo, they were even being shot for sport. Until we can control the excessive accumulation of wealth in this country, or control its ability to buy power over the rest of us, we will continue to live with these seemingly contradictory ethical and moral standards.

[Blue Full Moon]

22. You are looking at this from what you know now.

This was viewed as a legitimate business with people who were looked at as being as having intrigrity. Wouldn't have been any different that school trips. Sometimes those have bad actors also. So not bad parents who mistreated children.