Should Registered Gun Owners have to be identified in your Neighborhood?

[shintao]

Should your gun totting neighbors be listed in a National Data Bank like Child Molesters, along with gun & ammo information? Do you know what weapons your neighbor has? What ammo he has available? What if a round goes through a wall and kills your child in your home or yard? Do you let your child go play in a gunners home with his children? Their was 5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 & 2009. Do gun owners need a sign in their yard to identify them as the threat they potentially could be to your family?

And would this lead to signs saying, "Home of a Proud Patriotic Gun Owner" signs being posted? Would it actually increase gun users in the neighborhood.

[samsingh]

1. i think that would be going to far

[shintao]

8. That could be true.

I am picking that up from a radio show & they discuss anything. At my last home I just about knew what arms they had when the 4th & 1st occurred and they were out blowing holes in the sky. LOL!

But if guns kill children, and child molesters abuse children, the point is very similar, so why one and not the other?

[samsingh]

12. child molestors committed the crime and could reoffend

a gun can be used for destruction, but not everyone with a gun will be doing so.

[NutmegYankee]

29. WTF

A sexual predator is a convict who was convicted and served time in prison for a sexual crime and is considered likely to re-offend. A gun owner is a regular citizen, usually law abiding, who has committed no crime. I keep my firearms locked up in accordance with state law and am well trained in firearm safety (a state required course for permit to purchase handgun).

I am no threat to children. This is an absolute non-starter for me. If I will be compared or treated as a criminal (child rapists, really?!), I intend to intensely oppose registration.

[dixiegrrrrl]

59. It would have the advantage

of letting law breakers know which homes are NOT armed,thus easy pickings.

[Ikonoklast]

95. If the homes that aren't armed are easy pickings for criminals, where do all the stolen guns

come from?

[Denninmi]

2. Only if the NRA insists I have to be identified because I'm bipolar/ptsd.

Why should they get a pass if I'm scapegoated?

[NCTraveler]

3. No. I don't care if my neighbors are armed or not. nt.

[ThePeoplesRepublicUS]

4. Bad Idea (IMO)

That could lead to all kinds of bad situations. If the Government starts targeting Gun owners by making this kinda crap I could see some people having serious problems with that.

[samsingh]

13. it's not about the government

if the goverment wanted to attack civilians our piddly guns will do nothing.

this is about people's right to privacy, and not creating a target for people to invade and steal guns from.

[Mojorabbit]

5. I could care less if my neighbors are armed either

I already know that both of my immediate neighbors are.

[Barack_America]

6. I would actually worry this could decrease the value of my home.

Who wants to buy a house next to someone with a bunch of assault rifles?

[shintao]

11. I heard one Republican comment........

She wanted signs put in the yards of people on welfare. Hateful witch!!

[samsingh]

14. that serves only to embarrass and no other purpose of public safety

[shintao]

25. People are callous, hateful and resentful

[joelw23]

90. who?

i would, because that person is more than likely a responsible person, and a responsible gun owner. people tend to stereotype the average gun owner as being some redneck from the hills or a criminal. The majority of gun owners are responsible law abiding citizens. there are roughly 4 million gun owners in the US and there are only 36,000 homicides committed with guns. i realize 36,000 is 36,000 too many, but my point is still valid. gun owners are not criminals nor should they be classified and registered like sex offenders. what's next? are we going to make people who carry pocket knives register them? people with box cutters who have factory or shipping jobs? a gun is a tool, and in the proper hands used for what it was intended for, just like a hammer, an axe, or any other tool.

[Lizzie Poppet]

7. There are no registered gun owners in my neighborhood.

Well, perhaps one or two with Class 3 NFA weapons...but that would be it. No registration requirement here...and I'll certainly do my part to see that it stays that way.

[obamanut2012]

17. Here, either, but there are pistol eprmits for handgins

It's a Jim Crow-era thing. So, they could list who has bought handguns. You know, like people hiding from an abuser.

[HockeyMom]

44. No background checks either for the recipient of a gun

as a "gift". Honor system for the person purchasing that gift that they are responsible in who they chose to give guns to. Not right at all.

[Lizzie Poppet]

61. Yes...and I'd like to see that changed.

I strongly support requiring a background check on all transfers of firearm ownership. That won't stop criminals from acquiring them, but it would certainly inhibit one vector.

[Marrah_G]

9. I dont think there should be any public list

I do think there should be alot more regulation then there currently is.

[joelw23]

91. really?

the gun laws in this country do work. The guy who shot up the school in connecticut tried to purchase a gun legally and was denied. The system did what it was supposed to do and kept a firearm out of his hand. He had another outlet to acquire the weapon. That isn't the government's fault nor is it the fault of any gun manufacturer. it is a result of the owners irresponsibility.

[tradecenter]

10. No.

And the names and address' of gun owners shouldn't be available to the public, including journalists.

[obamanut2012]

15. Should victims of stalkers and abusers be publicly identified?

Many women (and also men) who are targets of violent individuals try to keep their location as secret as positive, and many also are gun owners.

I also don't think it's a good idea to have maps showing where the LEOs, COs, and other armed government workers live.

[shintao]

33. I agree with this!!

So we will have large groups of females excluded, who may have mental problems, ad more likely to be around children than males.

The whole idea sucks to me, I just threw it out here.

[Cleita]

16. Maybe those close to a school? n/t

[obamanut2012]

18. Why make that exception?

No one is breaking the law by doing that.

[Cleita]

20. I dunno. Wouldn't it make sense like child molesters being identified if

they are living near schools? Or maybe on the other hand having a ban on keeping guns on a property that is near a school. It seems like a lot of these mass murders by automatic weapon seem to occur in schools so shouldn't we be looking at how to prevent those weapons from being brought on to a school campus to begin with.

[tradecenter]

23. You're comparing child molester's living near schools

to gun owners living near schools? That's sick.

[obamanut2012]

24. Equating gun owners and sex offenders?!

Maybe people on script Oxy and other meds who live near schools should be on a public list and not be allowed to keep their meds at home. You know, drug-free zone.

[Cleita]

28. Both are a danger to children. Sorry about your indignance but the news would suggest

otherwise. Don't throw straw men out about OXy and such. It makes you look silly. For a long time drug dealers have been targeted around schools too.

[tradecenter]

34. How, as a legal gun owner who lives just across the street from

an elementary school, am I just as dangerous as a child molester? That is just the stupidest thing I've heard so far.

[Cleita]

43. Of course it's stupid. Now you guys get it. n/t

[tradecenter]

47. I get it now.

Boy, don't I feel sheepish.

[obamanut2012]

41. It wasn't a strawman

You are damned right I'm ticked that ANY law-abiding citizen will eb added to a list, or excluded from living neat a school, whether it's someone one a restricted script, a gun owner, someone seeing a psychiatrist, or whatever.

This has NOTHING to do with gun control. Nothing.

[Cleita]

46. My real point is that gun storage should not be allowed in private residences anywhere,

except maybe out on the farm or a remote cabin in the woods. Gun owners should be required to store their guns in depots, whether it's gun safes at the shooting range or maybe at their bank or other public spaces that only the registered owner can check out the guns and specify what they will be used for and what period they will be used for before being returned to the depot. I don't think Adam Lanza would have had access to his mother's guns then that easily.

[tradecenter]

52. When you convince criminals to store their guns in depots,

then I might consider it, until then, no.

[Cleita]

62. It makes it much harder for the criminals to begin with. But so

far these mass murderers are not criminals in the classic sense of the word, but people with suicidal wishes who were able to access weapons way to easily. These were legally owned weapons. I feel law abiding and responsible people should be able to own their weapons, but keep them in a safe place away from any residences. That's my opinion.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

69. That would eliminate the most effective means of self defense

Which happens much more often than mass murders

[Cleita]

72. Well, a quick google will disprove your assertion.

Look up Switzerland, one armed nation in the world other than us. They actually require that guns be kept in a depot. It used to be that those military grade weapons were kept in the home because that was their citizens standing militia, something I wish we did here, however, even the Swiss decided it's best to keep those arms out of private residences.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/

For instance, in Israel, they’re very limited in who is able to own a gun. There are only a few tens of thousands of legal guns in Israel, and the only people allowed to own them legally live in the settlements, do business in the settlements, or are in professions at risk of violence.

Both countries require you to have a reason to have a gun. There isn’t this idea that you have a right to a gun. You need a reason. And then you need to go back to the permitting authority every six months or so to assure them the reason is still valid.

The second thing is that there’s this widespread misunderstanding that Israel and Switzerland promote gun ownership. They don’t. Ten years ago, when Israel had the outbreak of violence, there was an expansion of gun ownership, but only to people above a certain rank in the military. There was no sense that having ordinary citizens [carry guns] would make anything safer.

Switzerland has also been moving away from having widespread guns. The laws are done canton by canton, which is like a province. Everyone in Switzerland serves in the army, and the cantons used to let you have the guns at home. They’ve been moving to keeping the guns in depots. That means they’re not in the household, which makes sense because the literature shows us that if the gun is in the household, the risk goes up for everyone in the household.

Oh, and here's a really old BBC article that explains how the Swiss view that gun ownership. It's not that every asshole in Switzerland has a right to a gun. It's because he's required to have one as part of his military duty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm

There are many other articles and wiki pages about this.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

74. Actually it does not address what I said in the least

Firearms are the most effective form of self defense. They are better than baseball bats and cans of beans.

Not having them available since they are locked up at a range, means the most effective form of self defense has been taken away from those who need it.

[Cleita]

78. The best defense is your brain.

Holding a gun only paints a bigger target on you.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

81. Your best weapon is your mind

A handgun is the most effective.

Deal with the threat, and most self defense gun owners will gladly disarm.

[slackmaster]

32. The really scary aspect of it to me is that some of these people actually vote in elections

And serve on trial juries.

[Cleita]

49. These people?

Well, that's really going to win over people to at least listen to your side of the story.

[beevul]

58. The people hes referring to, have no intention to listening to anyone elses side of this issue. N/T

[slackmaster]

63. Your position on this issue is so far off the scale, there is no way we could ever come to agreement

I mean that quite seriously. Supporting publication of a list of gun owners without considering that some of them may be stalking victims in hiding is bad enough. The idea of forcing people to store their personal firearms somewhere other than their own homes seems absurdly authoritarian to me, and I feel it merits ridicule.

[Cleita]

65. I don't support publication of a list of gun owners or other things

that I said on this post. I said those things to make you think. I do support storing personal firearms somewhere else other than private residences with the exception of remote rural locations. It seems our laissez faire gun laws are not working. I for one would not want to be the parent of one of those children who were murdered if I knew it could have been prevented because the perpetrator wouldn't have had access to his mother's guns.

[joelw23]

92. Exactly!!

has anyone else noticed that all these mass murders keep happening in GUN FREE ZONES? let's look at it logically, if you were going to commit a crime you'd go where there are the fewest obstacles and nothing to stand in your way.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. How many school rampage shooters lived close to a school?

Getting into a car and driving a few miles to a school is not a difficult task. Outlawing guns close to a school accomplishes exactly nothing.

[Cleita]

36. Probably not. However, I was suggesting an alternative to the orginal

post that narrowed down the ban so to speak.

[NutmegYankee]

35. Now that is fucked up.

Comparing gun owners to child rapists?! You practically ensure that registration won't pass.

[Cleita]

40. Did I do that comparison? It seems others including you did. I only

pointed out what other laws have been put into place to protect children from those who would do them harm. My, my my, it seems I opened a wound there. Should I have been making the comparison?

[NutmegYankee]

48. Yes you did.

"Wouldn't it make sense like child molesters being identified if they are living near schools" and "Both are a danger to children".

Maybe law abiding people don't like being treated like criminals. Ever consider that?

[Cleita]

50. I know a lot of people who don't like being identified like criminals but they are.

How about women who try to get services from Planned Parenthood.

[NutmegYankee]

53. Then why support or condone it?

The fact that the Fundie Fascists try to invade the privacy of women doesn't justify allowing it elsewhere. Anti-abortion protesters are the steam that oozes off a dog's fresh shit. Certainly not somebody to copy the actions of.

[NutmegYankee]

45. Violation of equal protection of the law.

Drugs can have enhanced charges for proximity because they are illegal in all homes. But any attempt to ban guns within some distance to a school would be taken down on 14th amendment grounds. Not to mention to possibility of law suits for "loss of value" since the property has additional restrictions not listed on the deed.

[tradecenter]

21. Why?

What possible reason would be for that?

[Cleita]

26. Just a thought. If we are going to suggest putting out a public list of gun owners maybe we

need to make it a little less bulky.

[slackmaster]

19. GLADYS!

[GreenStormCloud]

22. In most states guns and gun owners aren't registered. N/T

[Fumesucker]

27. Would this do for an identification sign?

[H2O Man]

31. please stop

[rrneck]

37. you're funny. ntt

[unblock]

38. personally, i'm FAR more interested in knowing who has guns than who is a sexual deviant.

as it is, i can easily find out who has been convicted of a "sex" crime, but have no idea if this is the kind of criminal who would might be a direct threat to my family or if this is merely someone who got drunk one night and peed in an alley.

on the other hand, i have no idea which lawns to make damn sure we stay off of because the owner has a shotgun and maybe an itchy trigger finger.


having said all this, i'd rather ALL this information be kept private.

[Rex]

39. No.

.

[bluestate10]

42. No. But the serial numbers for their guns should be on a national registry.

The connection between the gun and the owner should only be available to law enforcement, similar to auto license plate numbers.

[NutmegYankee]

51. And I could support that as a gun owner.

It has the added benefit of allowing retrieval of stolen weapons when recovered by authorities. What scares me is the joy by some on DU at seeing innocent people's names and addresses posted on a website. I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU, so I may be a bit more sensitive to privacy concerns than most.

[HappyMe]

55. That seems like a good idea.

Lists of names and addresses is a bad idea.

[JEFF9K]

54. good

I think it's a good idea.

[jody]

56. Just implement Poindexter's Information Awareness Office and quit beating around the bush.

[Rex]

98. Done. Been done long ago.

I think DOT is just now catching up.

[Skittles]

57. no

it is a legal activity and smacks of fascism

[KT2000]

60. I assume most are

I behave as if most neighbors are armed and will shoot at anything that moves on their property. There have been times I wanted to return a pet to their own yard but did not because I did not want to be suspected of being a prowler and shot.
One neighbor shoots (illegally) into the ground in front of deer that are near his property.

I assume a level of insanity exists with gun owners. Some - not all - are itching to shoot at something. I stay away from the neighbors I believe have weapons.

[tabbycat31]

64. They have been in my parents' neighborhood

[Piazza Riforma]

66. Nobody's personal information should be released to the public

sans warrant or court order. Only police and other authorized people should be able to access databases.

[LeftInTX]

67. It won't do any good

Most crimes are committed with unregistered guns.

[-..__...]

68. "5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 & 2009"...

is a misleading number when placed in the proper the context of your post

Of that number, 308 were "accidental or undetermined" (%5.36).

3,892 were homicides.

Tell you what... I'll agree to a National Database of Gun Owners (and I'm assuming this would be easily accessible by the public), only if a national Database of Convicted Felons is established first (easily accessible by the public).

I'll put a "Warning... Home Owner Possess Firearms" sign on my front lawn, the day I see a sign reading "Entering High Crime (or Gang Activity), Area" posted in applicable neighborhoods.

[slackmaster]

70. You also have to include some adults, i.e. those age 18 and 19, to come up with a figure that high

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

[ProgressiveProfessor]

71. I find this sign somewhat apropos

Similar one here:

[DisgustipatedinCA]

76. Of course you do, because you celebrate death

If my neighbor put such a sign up, my neighbor would be very, very sorry in the end. No guns required for us non-cowards.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

80. No I find it apropos because it tweaks those who's undies are way too tight on some of this

I expect a similar sign may go up in Westchester County where the map outed the neighbor of one of the editors, IIRC. That editor has been having a serious bad week.

If you did threaten or physically attack that neighbor, it would make you no better than those who threatened and initiated violence for other slights, real or imagined. It might even get you put in jail or killed. Hot heads are such easy pickings...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

84. Your conditional if is in the realm of fantasy.....do you always create your own reality?

I never said anything about threatening or physically attacking a neighbor. It's telling, on a couple of fronts, that this is what you came up with from what I posted. First, everything you say here should be suspect, because you're making things up as you go along. Second, I'm not some guntard fuckwit, and as such, I don't go around communicating threats. But I still promise, if my neighbor were stupid enough to put that sign in his yard, he'd be very sorry he did. See how that works? No threat was communicated, no threat is needed. In fact, my neighbor is a pretty nice guy, but we were talking hypothetically, you and I. And in that hypothetical, it would be a singularly bad idea for a neighbor of mine to point such a sign toward my house. That will be all.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

85. You were the one making hypothetical veiled threats so it was your fantasy

As I said, hot heads are easy pickings...self righteous, humor impaired, ideologues included

[RomneyLies]

73. I would take all guns being registered, BUT...

the data is only subject to legitimate law enforcement searches, and never from a squad car.

Gathering the data and making it subject to legitimate law enforcement efforts is far more important than it being open to the public.

[arely staircase]

75. impossible

we don't register our guns in texas.

[rustydog]

77. No

[DollarBillHines]

79. Burglars would love it!

Why break into an armed house when you could take a far less dicey route?

A really well-armed house which contains other really cool shit more than likely has a gun safe.

[Major Nikon]

97. They would also know which homes have guns they can steal

Any burglar competent enough to check such a registry should be competent enough to check to make sure nobody was home before they burgled the place.

[Stand and Fight]

82. ABSOLUTELY NOT. n/t

[MightyMopar]

83. Yes

[farminator3000]

86. yes, they should, just like car owners. i, personally, wouldn't ever care or look at the list.

why not? got something to hide?

[friendly_iconoclast]

87. "why not? got something to hide?" That you, Admiral Poindexter?

[Union Scribe]

96. There's a public registry of car owners in your area?

I've never even considered such a thing.

[farminator3000]

100. people have them in driveways and garages, so they're right out in the open?

i've never seen someone driving a concealed car...

[RebelOne]

88. Yes. There is already a registered sex offender list in my state.

Why not a list of registered gun owners?

[CBHagman]

89. I suspect it's a privacy issue...

...and doubt very much proposals such a public database would fly, at least not in most areas of the country. I also wonder what the rate of compliance would be.

[AzSweet]

93. bad idea is right!!!

I'm sorry,..but REALLY??? One big thing I've noticed about the teapartier extremists, is that they dont look all the way down the path...and from alot of what I've read here lately, neither do the far left extremists. And before I'm accused of being a troll..or whatever, some of the decisions the President has made are way too far to the right for my liking. But c'mon people...Think about it!

[backwoodsbob]

94. seriously?

you just posted gun owners..even legal gun owners..as equal to convicted child molesters?

And people wonder why we can't have any real discussion of gun laws that could make a real difference

[S_B_Jackson]

99. Luckily, I do not live in a state/city with a registration scheme...

Frankly, it's none of their business.

Following Hurricane Ike, and two weeks without power, I have a very good idea of which of my neighbors have firearms and at least some of what types of firearms they have. Some I knew or suspected had firearms, some surprised me.

These neighbors have proven themselves over the years to be responsible in their gun ownership and usage, so I am not overly concerned about the likelihood of stray rounds and for my part, the designated "home defense" firearm is loaded with #3 buck so as to avoid the issue of overpenetration.

Yes, I let my children, when they were younger, play in their homes, just as their friends play(ed) at mine, now that my children are over the age of 16 and both drive, I don't generally tell them who they may or may not "play with" or where.

This desire to know everything about one's neighbors by state monitoring is dangerous and I do not support it.

[OnionPatch]

101. Child molesters have a record of molesting children.

If a person has a record of shooting people, then yeah, go ahead and post their address.

[otohara]

102. Children Home Alone, W/ Guns

and friends, not a good idea.

Damn right I'd want to know. I did find out there were guns in a household down the street once and the mom took off leaving
the kids and my kid in the house. They were checking out the guns.

That was the last time my kid went in that house.

[lynne]

103. I foresee an increase in unregistered weapons -

- if that becomes the case.