This nightmare was aimed at Australian Jews

[PCIntern]

Terrorist attack against the Hanukkah celebrants.

Fuck these Nazis: attacking defenseless people on a beach. I don’t want to hear one fucking word about a “rationale” for this or any sentence which contains a “but” in discussing motive. We know what the motives are and have been since time immemorial: to eradicate Jews everywhere. Period. That’s their game plan.

[Skittles]

1. WTF

horrible

[Coldwater]

2. Bondi beach shooting:

One of the gunmen identified as 24-year-old Naveed Akram

Authorities have identified one of the shooters who targeted civilians on Sunday at Sydney’s Bondi Beach. Police confirmed the suspect is 24-year-old Naveed Akram from Bonnyrigg in Sydney’s southwest, as reported by Daily Mail.


?im=FitAndFill=(596,336)


Link

https://www.firstpost.com/world/bondi-beach-shooting-one-of-the-gunmen-identified-as-24-year-old-naveed-akram-13959660.html

[PCIntern]

4. Yeah...

Let’s rationalize and parse words. . Fuck all these Nazis who want Jews dead. That’s my statement. I stand by it

Why do you think Israel all but annihilated Gaza? 10/7. That’s why. It’s enough of the “we are better than they are” -look what that did for us Democrats.

[malaise]

6. And I stand by mine

These were not Nazis

This is another horrific act of violence

[PCIntern]

16. Malaise:

You don’t know that actually and as far as I’m concerned, the philosophy which pertains to the extermination of any race, creed, or color is Nazism. I have lived among these people. I know them all too well.

See, they don’t parse words: they don’t care if a Jew is reform, Conservative, or Orthodox: we are all the same. They also look to eradicate gays and lesbians and people of color if that were possible. Outrageous behavior needs to be met with same.

[AloeVera]

42. You are saying Oct 7th justified the annihilation of Gaza?

It seems that way to me.

Nothing justifies the murder of innocent people. Jews or Muslims or anybody. Descending to the laws of the jungle and indiscriminate killing of children and civilians in an eye for an eye (or worse, 100 eyes for an eye) is not where we should be heading - October 7th notwithstanding. This is where that will always lead to.

Just my opinion of course. But I haven't stayed silent for over two years on the slaughter of innocents, killed for who they are. Now that more innocents are murdered, though of another creed and ethnicity, I can condemn that too without appearing hypocritical, tribal or lacking self-awareness.

I felt this needed to be said.

[ColoringFool]

5. I Don't Think This Is The Time....

Yeah, Germany was mistreated at Versailles ...

[malaise]

8. Fact

Nazis did not commit this horrific act.

[malaise]

9. Get back to me when you find a link between the surname Akram

and Nazis

That is all

[PCIntern]

17. You're failing to understand

That the movement that these terrorists belong to has acknowledged that they derived much of their rationale and belief system concerning Jews and Jewry from when the Nazis occupied this region. Their “religious” ideology which is another thing entirely has adopted the propaganda dissemination favored by those such as David Duke and those who preceded him and his ilk and the reason is: THE REASON IS….
That it is effective.

Never again. Every attack against us will be met with hundred-fold response.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. "Every attack against us will be met with hundred-fold response" is massive escalation

If there were 100 attackers who killed 1 initial victim, then you might perhaps see it as justified. But if, as in this case, 2 (or 3?) attackers killed 11 people (current figures), where are you finding the 1,100 people to kill in response?

[PCIntern]

20. Again, missing the point...

With all due respect: you don’t have to kill 1100 people, you can make the perpetrators and their supporters miserable for the rest of their lives, instead of just one Sunday morning.

I would remind you that not too many years ago. We would often awaken on Sunday morning and hear about bombing in Tel Aviv at cafés post-Shabbat . I didn’t see a whole lot of posted outrage in those days from the left… It is obvious we have to take care of ourselves. And we will do so.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. I was under the impression you're American, not Israeli

but perhaps you're a dual citizen.

Was there ever a time when more Israeli citizens were being killed than West Bank inhabitants?

The UN Human Rights Office in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is appalled by the killing of 9-year-old Mohammad Bahjat Al-Hallaq who was shot by Israeli security forces (ISF) while playing football in Ar-Rihiya, Hebron, on Thursday, 16 October.

The fatality brings the total number of Palestinian killed by ISF and settlers since 7 October 2023 in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, to 1001. One in five of the victims is a child including 206 boys and 7 girls. The number also includes 20 women and at least 7 persons with disabilities. This does not include Palestinians who died in Israeli detention during the same period.

The figure represents 43 per cent of all Palestinians killed in the occupied West Bank in the past 20 years.

Since 7 October 2023, 59 Israelis have been killed in Palestinian attacks or armed clashes in the West Bank and Israel, including 16 women and 5 children. Twenty-two of the Israeli fatalities were members of the Israeli security forces.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/ohchr-press-release-17oct25/

"make the perpetrators and their supporters miserable for the rest of their lives" is quite different from "hundred-fold response"; maybe it's your communication that makes everyone else "miss the point".

[Mossfern]

31. Honestly?

a "what about" response?

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. In response to a "what about" repsonse

If PCIntern wants to talk about killings in Tel Aviv (after invoking a "hundred-fold" response), when the subject is killings in Australia, then killings by the IDF become relevant. It's less of a jump, literally, than Sydney to Tel Aviv.

[Srkdqltr]

50. 2 grown men killed people. Thats murder. Always and ever. No justification for it EVER.

[muriel_volestrangler]

51. I agree. (nt)

[ClaudetteCC]

22. Nazis and David Duke were not around for the battle of Khaybar in 628 AD and centuries of follow-up

[PCIntern]

25. Jesus H.

Well, they are now. And they’re everywhere.

[ClaudetteCC]

29. Jew hatred goes back much further

A temporal bias to a group that showed up about a hundred years ago isn't very inclusive of a long history of jew hatred, oppression, and killing. Why was a nazi flag not left on the hood?

[Mossfern]

30. Parsing words ....

The word "Nazi" had taken on a broader meaning than just the Nazi party.
You know that. Why pick at details and not respond to actual act and intention?

Would you prefer he use the word "Muslilm?"
After all the perpetrator does seem to have an Islamic name - at least Middle Eastern.

Anything to distract from the real issue ......

[NickB79]

39. The Nazis used extensive propaganda across the Middle East in the 1940's

And a lot of prominent Arab leaders embraced their message, becoming at the very least Nazi adjacent.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler

In this German propaganda newsreel, the former Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husayni, an Arab nationalist and prominent Muslim religious leader, meets Hitler for the first time on November 28, 1941 in Berlin, Germany. During the meeting, held in in the Reich chancellery, Hitler declined to grant al-Husayni’s request for a public statement—or a secret but formal treaty—in which Germany would: 1) pledge not to occupy Arab land, 2) recognize Arab striving for independence, and 3) support the “removal” of the proposed Jewish homeland in Palestine. The Führer confirmed that the “struggle against a Jewish homeland in Palestine” would be part of the struggle against the Jews. Hitler stated that: he would “continue the struggle until the complete destruction of Jewish-Communist European empire”; and when the German army was in proximity to the Arab world, Germany would issue “an assurance to the Arab world” that “the hour of liberation was at hand.” It would then be al-Husayni’s “responsibility to unleash the Arab action that he has secretly prepared.” The Führer stated that Germany would not intervene in internal Arab matters and that the only German “goal at that time would be the annihilation of Jewry living in Arab space under the protection of British power.”

[Justice]

10. They are murders not protesters.

Suggesting their opposition to what Israel did in Gaza as if that justifies killing innocent Jewish people half a world away?

[malaise]

11. Justifying?

I called it what it is - a horrific act of violence.
I merely pointed out that the act was not committed by Nazis.

[DFW]

13. That seems a safe assumption

The chances that a 24 year old in Australia named Naveed Akram was a National Socialist are pretty much zero.

[boston bean]

18. Steven Miller is one and he is Jewish. I think it's the ideology that matters.

[onenote]

28. Maybe they're not "Nazis" -- but folks use that term to describe Trump et al and I don't recall you protesting

Maybe I missed it. But if not, I would expect in the future you will be be consistent.

[Sympthsical]

41. When someone has said in the past Jews have "collective responsibility" globally

There's a very thin veil to the game being played.

It's not about vocabulary at all. It's about getting those licks in, but just under the radar enough (so they think) to avoid sanction.

It's been years of this. I'm shocked it continues to be homed here.

[speak easy]

12. A flag resembling the ISIS flag was left on the hood of one of the gunman's car

[Mossfern]

32. I thought that Trump

had gotten rid of Isis.
No?

[speak easy]

34. No.

Three Americans killed by IS gunman in Syria, US military says
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9d9vpxjp2go

[Mossfern]

37. I guess I should have added the "sarcasm" emoji

I considered it, but thought that it would be obvious.

[Igel]

40. ISIS branched out.

It's in North Africa and West Africa, as well.

US troops have been in Syria straight along. When a politician a few years back declared we had no troops in active theaters of operations, that politician was completely in error as far as the truth was concerned. Perhaps knowingly, perhaps out of ignorance.

[Danmel]

14. I have tears in my eyes

There is no place on Earth that is safe for Jews. No place on Earth. I'm just so tired of this. Just leave us the fuck alone already. We're less that one half of one percent of the world's population. Leave us the fuck alone.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. This is devastating.

[JI7]

21. It's crazy how most Jew haters are mostly from 2 religions

that have a history of invading, colonizing, forceful conversions and just spreading their violence across the world. But they are always blaming the Jews for everything. Always spreading conspiracy.

These 2 groups also play victim the most .

[speak easy]

23. I don't think the Roman Catholic Church played the victim all that frequently,

but the Nazi certainly did.

[Nanjeanne]

26. A horrific act of terrorism. Antisemitism is an evil as is anti (fill in the blank). And heartfelt thanks to

Ahmed al Ahmed, a Lebanese Muslim who owns a Sydney fruit shop, who risked his life to disarm one of the Bondi Beach shooters. Such courage.

[Srkdqltr]

27. It's MURDER. SIMPLE MURDER. you can use any word that makes it , other than.

ITS MURDER.....THERE SHOULD NOT BE JUSTIFICATION. no rationale. IT'S MURDER.
MURDER
Call it Nazi or whichever 'ism . It's MURDER.

[Skittles]

46. by that rationale there is no such thing as a HATE CRIME

IT'S JUST CRIME!

[Srkdqltr]

47. Murder is a crime. Its the ultimate crime. Putting other words with it makes it less.

[Skittles]

49. I absolutely disagree

over and OUT

[jfz9580m]

35. When I look at threads like these

I do feel we misanthropic Green animal rights types are the most neutral when it comes to human wars.

Yes we are never very popular having no culture or group and mostly secretly only sympathising with the planet. We are also not particularly unpopular since we support whoever is getting clobbered more or clobbered in a specific instance. We just exist outside human war that way.

My sympathy was with Palestine in the war, because as horrific as Oct 7 was, that was in no way a proportionate response. And Palestine has been on the receiving end of unfair treatment for a long time. It wasn’t even good for Jewish people or Israel. Otoh it isn’t a reason to imply that every antisemitic attack for ever more is because of that. Nick Fuentes and MTG etc are not antiwar for any reason but antisemitism. Nor are various theocrats of any religion any good.

The dynamics of all these intragroup wars are making this accelerating nightmare worse and a gimme to these Trumpy grifters. I considered whether to shut up or not. But this is a dynamic destroying everything where it’s emotion driven for non malicious people and exploited by the war and terror machine. The war machine is controlled by various elites and the worst type of pushback is mob violence and stochastic terror like this. This fits the description of stochastic terror at any rate.

I have equal sympathy for all groups and equal lack of sympathy as well wrt violence. Really I do..it’s because I prefer animals yes but still ;-/.

King Lear comes to mind wrt the kinds of friends who support anything you do whichever group you belong to. Beware false friends. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind..

And acts of violence should not be somehow justified and the math and numbers of this is tiresome. How about shooting for an amnesty re all intragroup hostilities at least on the left over backlash after backlash after backlash into eternity dredging up more and more history over current priorities like climate change?
No? War is better? Oh well..

I have reason to get how the internet and similar technologies manipulate emotions in the worst ways possible. Even Yasha Levine, a staunchly anti-war voice and one I respect a lot, has started focusing more on how the internet ends up stoking war rather than the reverse even when your are taking the left view. Or at least that’s how I interpreted it and it fit a thesis I had along the same lines that the disempowered persons seemingly left internet use can sometimes help the same war machine.

The point is not that having a position is bad but seeing how it manipulates reality should be understood with more sophistication than this in a web built by Palantir, Google and a bunch of defense contractors where the last thing they want is an end to any war.

[Srkdqltr]

48. The point is. This is murder no matter who or why.

[lostincalifornia]

36. This attack is about Jewish hate, and there are NO EXCUSES that justify it.

[jfz9580m]

38. I agree

I find it tiresome to see an unspoken “they had it coming” dynamic in these types of events.
An implicit “Yes it is unfortunate, but you can understand why..” No..it’s stochastic terror.

And I don’t mean it the muscular national security war mongering ad way. I mean that machine thrives on all this while pretending to condemn it.

There is nothing left about stochastic terror. I am well to the left but that is about thinking critically. The web polarizes the world towards war. Totally makes sense that it was built by defence contracting.

Nathan Robinson (who is well to the left) recently wrote about how alarming it is that outright nazis like Fuentes are getting normalised. And way too much real antisemitism is rising thanks to that wretched war. The worst possible reaction and then

I can’t stand Larry Ellison and object to hatred of Jewish people being coupled to attacks on Ellison.

I have felt sympathetic toward both the (left) Jewish community and the (left) Muslim community and all the people getting clobbered in war zones as we comment about it safely from our homes.

But this is a cancer on society and its dynamics are a nightmare and I don’t trust researchers of the net in bed with the security state to call it out and feel compelled to. It will kill us all-this eye for an eye crap.

[H2O Man]

43. Terrible.

Somehow the madness must stop.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. Of course it was.

Perhaps the shooters were "triggered", y'know by this...



Maybe they were triggered by this:



I mean, how triggering to see a group of Jews together, celebrating!

Also, expect the Hypercacher response too.

Of course, we are reminded how some are "horrified" by this when in fact, like Trump, it is nothing more than a means to an end.

When "Hannukah anti-Semitism" morphs into "Purim anti-Semitism"!!!

[Boo1]

45. I don't think it's useful to

argue about this particular ideology was responsible for any particular act of killing Jews, especially when there are close ties between the factions.

https://gnet-research.org/2021/08/24/connecting-the-fringes-neo-nazi-glorification-of-salafi-jihadi-representations-online/


They are both far-right religous extreemists with anti-sematism as a central pillar of their belief. I find defending one the same as defending the other.

[jfz9580m]

52. There is something to that

A friend of mine follows the anti-fascist researcher Dave Emory who have looked at extensive ties between various extremist and hard right movements which make surprising bed partners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Emory

If you look at his wiki, he does sound like a conspiracy theorist. But from what little I followed of it, it is generally not based in bullshit or lies as opposed to say Candace Owens.Though his thesis or lens may not be one more mainstream people agree with, he isn’t a conspiracy theorist. And some of it is solid like the stuff you posted.

You can see it even with Andre Behring or Savitri Devi etc-a certain attraction fringe rightists have to each other. And the stuff you pointed out.

Genuine extremists generally have more in common with each other than with the mainstream. Generally they are all in conflict mostly as each backs their own brand of theocratic crazy not others. But now and then they cross pollinate.

Dwelling as I do farther to the left than many and not above tongue in cheek references to the Scum Manifesto etc, I think it is important to know and avoid all the violent and crazy stuff.