The president need not be a trained herpetologist.

[cab67]

Last edited Tue Dec 16, 2025, 06:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I do, however, ask that the president not just make shit up as he goes.

Yesterday, he told a story about a doctor who'd been bitten by a viper in Peru.

Among his claims - "28,000 people die of snakebite every year in Peru." The actual number is closer to 10.

He also mentioned mambas - black and brown. There's no such snake as a "brown" mamba; there are black and green mambas. And unless something went wrong at a zoo, no one in Peru has been killed by a mamba - mambas are native to Africa and do not occur in South America. They're also not vipers, either - they're elapids related to cobras and coral snakes.

The doctor in question was evidently bitten by a fer-de-lance a while back. Fer-de-lances actually are true vipers, though I don't know if the bite happened in Peru.

Important point? Probably not. But it shows how he just makes things up as he goes, and that's not good for any head of state.

---

Useless personal anecdote added on edit: Last year, I encountered a close relative of mambas near Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia - a coastal taipan.

Coastal taipans are among the most venomous snakes in the world. But in fact, the snake was a tiny juvenile (maybe 18 inches long; they reach 8 feet), and although taipan venom is nasty, their fangs aren't very large - meaning it probably wouldn't have gotten through my jeans had it bitten me, much less my boots. And the snake knew I was there long before I saw it and was already clearing out.

But I'd forgotten of a lesson learned long ago - that it's ok to relate such stories to one's spouse, provided one doesn't provide all of the details. I told my wife that the taipan I saw wasn't a threat. But I stupidly added, "Besides - this was a coastal taipan. The coastal taipan isn't the most venomous snake in the world. That would be the inland taipan."

The first time I learned that was when I told my (now ex) spouse about the Mozambique cobra I encountered in a coffee plantation in Tanzania. Saying I saw the snake was fine. Adding that I was out of spitting range went too far. I thought that would have been good information, but reminding her that cobras can spit was more alarming than it should have been.

[Ocelot II]

1. Why was he even talking about Peruvian vipers in the first place?

WTF?

[SheltieLover]

3. Think of his cabinet, perhaps?

[Jerry2144]

4. Professional courtesy?

[Ocelot II]

5. Vipers, maybe, but why Peruvian vipers? Who's talking about Peru at all?

I could imagine how maybe he could come up with some attenuated connection to Venezuelan vipers, but why Peruvian ones? Where does he get this shit?

[eppur_se_muova]

7. Confused w/Venezuela ? Not at all beyond possibility -- in fact, quite probable.

He's got a metavariable in his head for "some South American country*" and whichever one whose name he manages to recall gets popped in there.




*(After all, they're all alike to him.)

[cab67]

14. He was evidently discussing someone in the room.

He's a physician who went on a trip to Peru that included former president Obama's daughters. This led to a meandering digression that would make any ancient river system blush.

[cab67]

12. No viper would tolerate such a comparison.

Vipers are models of patience and, when moving along the ground, grace. And they actually have an important role to play in their ecosystem.

[jmowreader]

10. He surrounds himself with them. Why wouldn't he talk about them?

[cab67]

13. No, he doesn't.

Unlike the scumbags surrounding Old Colostomy, snakes (including vipers) are graceful beings who can teach us much about patience, stealth, and survival in spite of ecological disturbance.

Knowing what I do about them, being called a viper should be seen as a complement. The people currently besmirching the White House have not earned the label.

[BidenRocks]

35. This story had the victim escorting

Sasha and Malia on a hiking trip to Peru. To him it's all jungle with "physical" animals.

Perhaps they were on a mountain visit to Machu Picchu. That never dawned on him.

It was the Obama tie in and his addled brain filled in the details.

I hope the attendees suffered major brain damage from this fantasy spun by a fool.

[maxsolomon]

2. He murdered Truth about 10 years ago.

He is a patholgical lying Bullshit Artist - he couldn't NOT lie if he tried.

[GiqueCee]

6. Reagan was notorious...

... for occasionally taking full advantage of the inherent elasticity of truth as well, but no other president even comes close to Trump as a pathological liar, though there are plenty of Republican politicians that could give him a run for it.

[eppur_se_muova]

8. "To the people of Bolivia, or someplace like that."

President Reagan had a slip of the tongue Wednesday night delivering a lengthy toast at the sumptuous Brazilian banquet in his honor.

Lifting his glass, Reagan offered it 'to President (Joao) Figueiredo and the people of Bolivia ....'

Then Reagan caught himself -- 'I mean Brazil, (Bolivia's) where I'm going next' -- and proceeded with his toast.

[peppertree]

28. And to Brazilians no less!

In general, they're very proud of their position as the largest, most important nation in Latin America - and with good reason.

As recently as the 1950s, they were among the poorest countries in the region (albeit the most populous by far already).

Up to 1952, they had a smaller GDP than Argentina's - despite having over three times more people.

Today - it's the world 8th largest economy on a PPP basis (Argentina, a modest 29th).

The worked very hard to get there - and even under dictatorship, they took care to have pro-industry and development policies (unlike Argentina - which since '77 has mostly been taking on foreign debt to finance offshoring by its own craven elites).

Suffice it to say, they did not take kindly to the gaffe - which many believed was intentional.

I'm sure it wasn't, as Reagan was already starting go around the bend by then.

A real gent and statesman compared to Snoozalini though.

[Pinback]

55. "Snoozalini" -- Bwaah!

First time I’ve seen that one!

[peppertree]

56. Why, thank you.

Don Conleone is the gift that keeps on giving.



"I've got the best names..."

[cab67]

58. Brazilian scientists take a very dim view of colonialist attitudes.

This comes up in my own field because it's illegal to export fossils out of the country that weren't collected before some point in the 1940's. But illegally shipped fossils still show up in rock shops and, from time to time, museum collections outside of South America.

One case in particular comes to mind. A group of European and American paleontologists described what they thought might be a very primitive kind of snake with all four limbs. We already knew of snakes with hindlimbs - Haasiophis and Pachyophis from Israel come to mind - but all four? This was new. It was from Brazil.

There were all kinds of ethical issues with the study. The specimen was in a private collection on loan to a museum, for example. That's generally a no-no; if a specimen doesn't have a catalog number from a recognized public-trust institution, journals typically won't consider manuscripts including them for peer review. No one was willing to explain how the specimen got from Brazil to Germany. Worse, the paper was written without the input of any Brazilian scientists - and there are several Brazilian experts on snake evolution and fossil reptiles.

And because of the way it was acquired, information was lost. We didn't know where, exactly, it was from - we could tell it came from a particular region in Brazil known for fossils, but without knowing the precise locality, our understanding of its precise age and paleoenvironment are limited.

That the specimen later proved to be a different kind of reptile distantly related to lizards, and not a snake at all, added to the confusion. And when that was revealed, the specimen's owner took offense and retrieved it. Now, it's no longer available for direct study. (This is one of the reasons it's considered unethical to work on specimens in private collections.)

A lot of my Brazilian colleagues wrote extensively about this case. There are perfectly good museums in Brazil, there are perfectly qualified Brazilian scientists who could have collaborated on the project, and we have no idea whether it was legally shipped out of the country. This struck many of them as coming from the kind of attitude that allowed European colonial powers (as well as the US) to strip their overseas possessions (and even places they didn't control) of their natural and cultural patrimony. I think they're right.

To this day, if I want to look at crocodile remains (modern or fossil) from Africa, I don't inly go Nairobi, Addis Ababa, or Dar es Salaam. I also go to London, Paris, and other Western cities. Whether they should all be repatriated is not a simple thing, but it's a legitimate discussion to undertake.

I occasionally have people bring me things they bought at a rock show, or maybe even at an outdoor market in Brazil. They ask if we're willing to accept it as a donation for our paleo collections. I have to respond that we can't touch it - it would be way too ethically problematic. I won't report these people or anything - they genuinely didn't know there might be a law against buying such fossils, and so far, none of the specimens I've been shown has been anything other than a well-known species - but if they hoped they could write a donation off on their taxes, they're disappointed.

[peppertree]

63. True. 'Colonialist attitude' is the GOPee's middle name.

Under Snoozalini, as you know, it's become official U.S. policy to only support right-wing regimes - far-right-wing ones, and no matter how sleazy.

Your president shares a lawyer with your country's top convicted narco?

No problemo. Here's $20 billion - and a big, orange thumb on the scale just in time for your mid-terms (which he would've otherwise lost - and bigly).

Three amigos: Convicted Argentine drug trafficker Fred Machado, Trump-backed President Javier Milei - and their shared lawyer, Francisco Oneto.

Machado flashed a Trumpian thumbs-up in a Texas court last month.

[PatSeg]

9. Things just pop in his head and then leak out of his mouth

No real thought process involved.

[erronis]

11. Only about one-half. The others end up in his Depends.

[PatSeg]

30. Ha, ha, yeah I think you're right

[markodochartaigh]

15. Fun fact: There are no poisonous snakes.

There are venomous snakes though.

[cab67]

22. My daughter knows this.

She's the only person in her fourth-grade class who seems to get it.

[markodochartaigh]

25. About half of the adults that

I have mentioned this to require an explanation.

[cab67]

31. and I'm willing to bet about half of those don't understand the explanation.

The common simple explanation I've heard is thus: if you bit it and die, it was poisonous. It it bites you and you die, it was venomous.

[IronLionZion]

24. Have you ever bitten a snake?

there could be poison inside

[cab67]

34. I've never had a reason to bite one.

I've gotten bitten many times, though never by anything with strong enough venom to harm me. I've taken pictures, because one can often tell the kind of snake based on the tooth pattern in one's skin. It's useful in my classes.

I've been bitten by crocodylians, too. Not very big ones, but crocodylians nonetheless.

You should hang around a group of people like me. What's the largest animal that's bitten you? What's the most dangerous animal that's bitten you? How many species have bitten you? What's the coolest parasite you've brought back? What's the most interesting disease you've been vaccinated against? Standard topics of discussion.

[PurgedVoter]

53. This is arguable since there are snakes that have a good chance of being poisonous.

While not poisonous on their own, rhabdophis keelback and garter snakes can collect toxins from their prey and end up being poisonous.

[obamanut2012]

16. We saw a Fer de Lance in Costa Rica

[cab67]

21. very lucky!

I've never had the privilege.

[IronLionZion]

17. The point is to be very afraid of anyone brown or black

since you can only trust snakes that are orange





If an orange snake bites you, just say "thank you sir, may I please have another".

[cab67]

19. Those are gorgeous snakes.

People forget how spectacularly colorful snakes can be.

[shakeyslim]

18. The president need not be a trained herpetologist

He just likes to say "Viper". Kinda sounds like "China"

Very tinny words. Not woody at all

[relayerbob]

20. That is 10 over the span of 2000-2015

So, less than 1, really.

[cab67]

23. no, it's ten per year.

which, based on my calculations, is somewhat less than 28,000 per year.

[AZ8theist]

26. What do you expect from a demented, senile IMBECILE?

I would hate to be a fly on the wall of Dotards empty skull.

[SuzyandPuffpuff]

27. Thank you

Slam damn dunk! 47 is an idiot

[SusieCreamcheese]

29. Snakes on the brain.

Trump told a story on the campaign trail about a kindly woman who brought a snake in from the cold, only to be fatally bitten. When she cried out in agony, asking him "why, why, why?", the snake said, "you knew I was a snake when you took me in". I always thought this story a perfect analogy to Trump (the snake) and his voters (the woman). They knew he was a snake and voted for him anyway. Now we all suffer daily from his venom.

[FakeNoose]

32. It's the snakes that fall out of trees that scare the bejesus out of me

I'm OK with the snakes on the ground because I think I can outrun most of them.

[cab67]

36. True story -

I did my postdoc at a large natural history museum in the Midwest. I won't name it.

Around that time, someone there was studying flying snakes. They don't actually fly; rather, they flatten themselves out and flutter down like a ribbon. They're harmless.

They cleared out a whole stairwell for this person to conduct their experiments. They figured it wouldn't be good for a visitor to have a snake land on them.

[Hassler]

33. The Confabulator in Chief is hemorrhaging brain cells

By the KFC bucketful.

[Javaman]

37. Not only 10 people but 10 people over 15 years nt

[cab67]

38. pretty sure it's ten per year

this wouldn't really surprise me, either - there are some highly venomous snakes in remote areas of Peru where getting immediate medical care is not so straightforward.

But it's still way less than 28,000 per year.

[Javaman]

39. I have to find the article

I could be wrong but I swear it was 10 over 15 years. Let me see if I can find it

[cab67]

46. I might be wrong as well.

[Javaman]

40. Yup you're right.

I have to check my reading comprehension lol

It was 2150 snake bites were treated at health facilities between 2000-2015 resulting in about 10 deaths per year.

[cab67]

47. I appreciate the fact check.

If I'm wrong about something, I want to know.


That said, the number you cited and mine differed by one order of magnitude. Twinklesphincter's was off by three.

[tavernier]

41. When we were going to Costa Rica to zipline,

they told us about a yellow snake, called an eyelash snake that was the most venomous in the country. Lo and behold, walking in the queue to the area where we were being seated and strapped in to zoom through the forest, there was the eyelash snake very calmly wrapped around a part of the fence post. It was tiny, but absolutely gorgeous in color and not the least frightening. Yes, I think snakes are beautiful and I don’t have fear of them because for the most part staying within a distance and not intimidating them is the key. I did take a couple of pictures but sadly I don’t have the technology to post them here. But you can see them on Google, just put in yellow eyelash snake, Costa Rica. However, the bullet ants in South America scare the crap out of me and they were all over the trees where we were zip lining from post to post. They are about an inch long and can put you in the hospital with one single sting, and they’re not one bit pretty.

[cab67]

43. I encountered driver ants in Kenya this past summer.

I was fascinated, but also (having seen the soldier caste's mandibles) determined that they never get on me.

Eyelash vipers are gorgeous. But like a lot of things, they need to be admired from a respectable distance.

One can admire dangerous wildlife without putting oneself in danger.

[tavernier]

48. Mr eyelash was especially interesting since it had wrapped itself

in a zig zag pattern. Zip line staff seemed completely uninterested; possibly thought it unreal.

[sinkingfeeling]

42. I have seen a fer-de-lance in Costa Rica. My gardener killed one 2 weeks ago and brought to the house to show me!

[cab67]

45. why did he kill it?

Honest question. In many parts of the world, killing venomous snakes is routine. I spent enough time living in Texas to know this. But was the snake an actual threat, or could it have been driven away?

(I ask knowing that "it was an actual threat" can be a legitimate answer. It depends on where the snake was.)

[sinkingfeeling]

50. He said it started to flee when he encountered it within 20 feet of my pool, but then

turned around and attempted to strike him.

[Wiz Imp]

44. I talked about this in a previous post

It was in response to this:

He said he won every county in Texas along the border. That is false. Harris won 2 counties along the border including the one with by far the largest population (El Paso County which Harris won by 15%). Most of those border counties are very low population counties. There were only 3 counties along the border (in addition to El Paso) which had as many as 16,000 votes. Trump won those by 2%, 2.9% & 5.8%. Hardly landslide victories.

He also told a rambling story about a snake in Peru. I honestly didn't pay much attention to what he said there, but I did hear him say this snake was the most venomous in the world.

In reality, non of the 12 most evnomous snakes can be found anywhere in South America (or anywhere else in the Western Hemisphere) so the snake his story was about wasn't anywhere near the most venomous snake in the world. Most of the most venomous snakes in the world are found in Australia, a fact that I'm sure Trump has no clue about.

He also said 28,000 people die each year in Peru of snake bites. In reality, there's only about 2,150 total snake bites each year in Peru, and of those, only 10 people die.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sweaty-trump-rambles-about-snakes-and-thirsts-over-ivanka-lookalike/

[summer_in_TX]

49. His brain is undergoing frontotemporal dementia - on top of the malignant narcissistic personality disorder

https://open.substack.com/pub/frankgeorge8675309/p/dammit-its-not-alzheimers-heres-why-c9f

A key symptom found in FTD is confabulation. This is seen when a person creates confident, detailed fabrications that fill gaps without any awareness they’re false. As the brain’s frontal lobes and their networks degenerate, one effect is that a person’s ability to evaluate whether a memory is accurate weakens.

In fact, confabulation is used as a key indicator for FTD.

[snip…]

A result of confabulation, disturbing but true, is that Trump could likely “ace” a lie detector test (as opposed to a cognitive test) because he truly believes what he says.

FTD patients believe their invented story is true.

[rampartd]

51. "besides, its the coastal taipan" got my ho ho ho this morning.

it made me think of the "african swallows or european swallows" line in holy grail

i once killed a 6 foot timber rattlesnake. long story, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
killing snakes is instinctual, isn't it? genetic
might we learn to kill snakes at sunday school?

either way we need to distinguish the garter snakes from the copperheads and leave both kinds alone before we mess with either.

[pansypoo53219]

52. most blather out of oompa's hamburger hole is bullshit. if he was poor at a bar, he's be a crank.

fucking idiot gnewz.

[yardwork]

54. My takeaway is that Trump is afraid of a lot of things.

He's afraid of sharks. He's afraid of venomous snakes.

[MadameButterfly]

57. It's so refreshing to listen to real expertise on this

and any subject, from you and others in the thread, with some humour thrown in. Thanks
I'm still laughing about biting snakes and whether they would be poisonous if we did.

[efhmc]

59. Sorry if this has already been addressed. But I learned ages ago that a viper is a general term for many snakes.

I think all of or most of the poisonous snakes in Texas are vipers. Especially our repug government officials.

[cab67]

60. Coral snakes (which occur in Texas) aren't true vipers.

They're elapids related to cobras, mambas, and several Australasian forms (e.g. Pseudonaja, the Australian brown snake, which is unrelated to the completely harmless North American brown snake, Storeria).

Hognose snakes (also found in Texas) are also mildly venomous, and they're also not vipers. They're colubrids more closely related to garter snakes. But their venom is not dangerous to humans.

I know the term "viper" is sometimes used in a broader sense. I'm reacting as a herpetologist. (I did my graduate work at UT-Austin and greatly miss the reptiles from Texas.)

Lots of taxonomic words have multiple meanings. The best way I know to distinguish a seal from a sea lion is to bring a mammalogist along with me. If I say, "Ooh - look at the seal!" and don't get smacked in the back of my head, it really was a seal. I mean, it's not like I'd ever confuse a crocodile for an alligator, which should be a capital offense.

And as I said before, no snake should be demeaned through comparison with right-wing politicians. Vipers, like all snakes, are dignified creatures with a real role to play in the world.

[Conjuay]

61. If a viper bit tRUMP

I wonder if the snake would survive...

[cab67]

62. Why would a snake be interested in Twinklesphincter?

I doubt Orange Julius Caesar would be willing to let a snake come close to him, much less provoke a bite.


Someone once shared a cartoon with me commenting on the very broad overlap between two things - awesome gifts for scientists and things supervillains want to do to James Bond. Lower me into a pit of snakes? Slow down a little - I want to identify them!

I suspect the Orange One's reaction would be less enthusiastic. Not comparing him with James Bond, who would react calmly with knowledge of what to do; rather, he'd behave like a toddler.

(And before anyone complains about this - yes, I know herpetophobia is a real thing. I could get my Dad to leave a room merely by bringing in a 12-inch-long garter snake, and he's the bravest human being I've ever met. I was expressing a desire to see the Count of Monte Crisco behave in an undignified manner on camera.)