I am assuming that those who still cherished a hope that our military

[niyad]

would hold as a bulwark against krasnov and company now know better?

[Polybius]

1. I think there's a huge difference between this and them shooting protesters

I still don't think they would do that. I hope I'm not wrong.

[TBF]

3. Assignment for today: Read about Kent State.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

They will not hesitate to shoot protestors if they're told to.

[Alliepoo]

6. Exactly.

Sickening.

[TimeToGo]

7. National Guard, though

Can’t say if it will make a difference today.

[ColoringFool]

15. Should Not Have Had Loaded Rifles On Campus. At PSU, 1969, I....

Walked right behind them as PA State Police entered our Admin Bldg, Old Main---which had been taken over by students protesting the Illegal Invasion (we have had our share, no?) of Cambodia as well as the larger Vietnam Conflict---and watched the police lay down their Billy Clubs BEFORE taking any removal actions. No killings or beatings.

[TBF]

38. You know EXACTLY what they will do. nt

[ColoringFool]

13. Or NON-Protesting Students Walking In The Vicinity (Kent State).

[niyad]

4. I wish I could share your hope.

[MuseRider]

14. Just the memory of that

amazes me that it is still so clear.

We can't go through that again. It is engraved in my mind and probably all of ours.

[Irish_Dem]

28. Polybius I think you are wrong.

I wish to God you were right.

[Traildogbob]

31. It's the

Private $60,000 bonus army that is anxious to shoot us that we must worry about. Those recruitment adds were plastered all over the football games time slots.
Their budget is already in the many billions and growing. But we can’t feed children or get health care for Americans that send tax cash that is used for ICE’is.
This army of J6ers are as ready to shoot us as an army of Rittenhouse's. Don’t doubt their loyalty. Any more than we should doubt the cabinet will do as told and beyond, to favor dear leader.
Ole Riit shot and killed protesters. Is a free man. Actually a MAGA hero. And he had no $60.000 bonus to do it.

[uponit7771]

34. Ive lost hope in them now

[Jack Valentino]

48. They've ALREADY done it--- just not with actual bullets.... yet...

Shooting a priest in the head with a rubber bullet or tear gas or whatever it was??

Just one small step to real bullets, and what the ICE agent shot at him could have been lethal regardless!

[Blues Heron]

55. They're already shooting protesters in Chicago, they shot a woman 5 times and lied about it.

The answer is yes, they have and will shoot protesters. There’s no question about it.

[Polybius]

67. That was Border Patrol

We were talking the US military.

[Blues Heron]

70. Same shit -us agents with guns, camo, and ammo. Just a different branch, but the bullets are the same - us bullets

You’re splitting hairs here.

[Polybius]

72. No, I'm not splitting hairs

Border Patrol are like cops. I still believe that the US military would do it. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I haven't been proven it yet.

[jaymac]

59. 4 dead in Ohio

Remember the song? Crosby Stills Nash? It could absolutely happen.

[Polybius]

68. I meant the actual US military, not ICE, Border Patrol, or the National Guard

I should have been more specific.

[AllyCat]

60. I don't see this as a huge difference. This is about

Abandoning the constitution. If they’ll follow orders to attack a sovereign nation without cause, they’ll shoot protesters.

[Polybius]

69. Most in the military are young and may not have known much about Venezuela

They may have thought there was a probably a good reason to attack. Poor kids can't ask why, they just have to say "Yes, sir!" or disobey.

[LoisB]

2. Indeed. I think this falls under "unlawful orders". Reminds me of Bush the Lesser invading

Iraq.

[markodochartaigh]

17. So far it reminds me more of

Panamá and Noriega. I sure hope that it doesn't get to the Iraq stage. The US already has a new flunkie to prop up in Venezuela. I hope that there is still room for that hope. Hopefully. Maybe.

[Solomon]

22. How can it not be the same as Iraq!? The boots on the ground are to protect the oil we're gong to steal. You can't

steal the oil without making sure the refineries keep running. Do you not think there will be Venezualans who will object to this!?
Jesus, people need to wake up to who we really are. What we have become.

[markodochartaigh]

24. I think that it is possible that Venezuelans will be used to protect the oil production.

I think that it is possible that the rest of the country will devolve into a dystopian chaos like Somalia.

And I believe that you understand, as I do, that the US didn't just "become" what we are last night. Go back as far as you want. All of the treaties with Native Americans broken, taking half of México, the "Pacification of Samar" in which Gen. Jacob H. Smith ordered all residents over the age of ten to be killed. And of course what happened to Gen Smith, or Lt. William Calley from My Lai when they returned to the US to face "justice".

[yankee87]

23. First for me

Thought of that also. I can't believe we are now the world's terrorists.

[LoisB]

27. I agree with you in a way and yes, let us hope it does not get to the "Iraq" level so far as

boots on the ground but I fear this crap has just started.

[MerryBlooms]

62. Yes, brought back all same memories for me too

Difference though, US sending bogus temporary government, and how many troops to protect them? And, if there are riots and attacking residences of the bogus US rulers, how many attack helicopters videos where there be of protesters being killed in the streets? 🤔

It's trump, there is No long term plan or solution

[Alliepoo]

5. Nope.

Congressional republicans are all in for Donvict and whatever his heart desires and it appears our military is more than willing to obey any illegal order he gives.

[FakeNoose]

12. That could change quickly when they receive angry phone calls and nasty-grams from their constituents

Once those start, the public protests won't be far behind.

Even the Repuke Representatives and Senators know how embarrassing those can get.

[Jerry2144]

8. The Reich-wing cancer has metastacised into all parts of our country

When I was in the service last millennium, there were too many reich-wingers. They will always follow orders of the authoritarians and will deem those orders lawful and ones from Democratic POTUS or liberals unlawful.

How do we even get that cancer gone, or at least driven into remission, when we finally cleanse the White House, Congress, and the Supreme(ly) (religious) Court? That cancer is keeping us from being great and living to the full potential of our ideals

[niyad]

9. I wish I had an answer as to how we cleanse.

[Irish_Dem]

29. Too many people are getting richer, more powerful from the GOP blight.

Our enemies have weakened the US so they can rise to power.

The GOP is fine with this.

[Duppers]

36. Our neighborhood

Is full of reichwing, retired military. Strangely, they all seem to be very assuming & shocked when we proudly announce that we're Democrats.

[Crowman2009]

10. Given how I witnessed the military being overrun by self-righteous GOPers, I knew this wasn't going to happen.

Especially amongst the ones making a career out of it.

[niyad]

11. Especially after they got rid of all who might have stood up to them.

[Lonestarblue]

16. Based on the quick success with Venezuela, does anyone think an attempt to take over Greenland is next?

It seems no one with power in the US will stop Trump, and there’s a big question whether NATO even has the power to stop him, even though they would be obligated to come to Greenland’s defense.

[malthaussen]

20. Have to wait until we pull out of NATO officially...

... otherwise we'll be obligated by treaty to defend against ourselves.

-- Mal

[popsdenver]

25. With no real main stream media anymore

People in America don't know anything about what is truly going on, except of course the MAGAots that watch Fox News, and what they are told is going on is totally 180 degrees from reality.

What everyone needs to know about Greenland, is that PUTIN wants it badly, and is once again using his lap poodle Trump to obtain it for Russia. Putin also wants Canada and Alaska..............WHY? because the un-fathomable amounts of natural resources located there and under the ocean floor in those areas. He also wants to open a MAJOR northern passage from the northern Atlantic to the Northern Pacific, which would cut tens of thousands of miles off normal ocean trade routes.....

By owning the entire main stream media, and Fox News, the Republicans can operate in the shadows while all this is going on...

[orangecrush]

18. Yeah so much for that

[malthaussen]

19. Southern Command certainly won't.

But we knew that already, they've been murdering civilians on the high seas for weeks.

This is kind of surprising for the US: naked aggression without the merest fig leaf of a casus belli. Well, surprising for the nation, individuals have done similar things all along. After all, that is what bullying is about.

-- Mal

[róisín_dubh]

57. Yeah we've always been good

about lying about our true aims.

This is going to be very bad for Venezuelans. Most don’t realise how bad just yet, and based off the glee of South Florida Venezuelans, most of them don’t seem to care.

I’d certainly appreciate some condemnation from the UK-but Starmer is as useless as tits on a bull.

[malthaussen]

21. It will be interesting to see what we've gotten ourselves into.

A quick "coup" to take out the "enemy" leadership is exactly the sort of thing these clowns would come up with, and crow and call it "victory." One wonders how the Occupation will go. Historically, we've not done very well administering conquered territories.

-- Mal

[RockRaven]

26. People who spouted that crap or reposted hopium/copium grifters doing so

should be embarrassed.

[choie]

30. Whoever believed that?

It wasn’t true in Vietnam, Cambodia or Iraq. It will never be true.

[niyad]

37. We saw any number of posters here saying that, oh-so-hopefully, since 20 Jan.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

49. Well now we can all wallow in the told ya so's

and be shamed and bullied.

Oh woe is us, it's the end of the world, no more elections, time to roll over and die.

Is that better?

I have several family members who are military veterans, and a good friend's son left his leg in Afghanistan. Maybe have some respect for those who are NOT MAGAts and their families.

[niyad]

56. Your disdain is noted. However, you are not the only one with military

connections in this thread, by the way. What krasnov and company have done to our military in these last 11 months is almost beyond belief.

[Dawson Leery]

32. A soldier but takes orders

There is a reason uniformed services do not want high IQ persons.

[popsdenver]

39. Hey

Wiki................... "McNamar's Morons circa 1967-68

[Skittles]

40. WTF

that is utter bullshit

[MorbidButterflyTat]

50. Agree.

This whole thread is shameful bullshit.

[Skittles]

53. I don't think many people understand restrictions military folk live by

those who SHOULD be asking the hard questions are in CONGRESS but they, like the mainstream press, are utterly failing WE THE PEOPLE

[niyad]

64. Some know them all too well.

[BidenRocks]

33. Here we are again. Regime change!

It worked so well in Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, etc.

We are a hammer and every problem is a nail.
The lack of any reasonable diplomacy is something the founders would revolt against.

The entire premise for this would not pass the congress. Drugs?

Bullshit!
Chump took out the competition
He's not the "Brain", but he's trying to "take over the world"!
I want NO part of this shit!

SILENCE IS ACCEPTANCE!

[Bettie]

35. I did have some hope there

that is gone as of today.

They will do as they are told, even if what they are told is to go door to door and kill entire US families.

[TomSlick]

41. I'm not convinced that the order to strike Venezuela

was the type of patently unlawful order that a service member is obliged to (or safely may) refuse.

I think Trump, Hegseth, Rubio, and the Joint Chiefs are liable for prosecution for conducting an aggressive war under the Nuremberg principles and the UN Charter. However, I don't see liability going down the ranks.

[Scalded Nun]

42. Again, unlawful orders abound. And our military leaders..nowhere to be found.

Disgusting.

[surfered]

43. Moral courage in the abstract collides with the reality of career, home mortgages, kids in college...

[Callie1979]

44. Well, we had Panama & Grenada that were similar operations so I still have hope.

[niyad]

45. Why?

[Callie1979]

58. Because there's not much difference between the 3 operations.

Everyone knows Maduro needed to go somehow. Should it have been THIS way is debatable. But he had warrants, & he's trashed that country.
Removing him being "illegal" is possible but its MUCH different than moving against our own citizens.

[Indyfan53]

46. Don't trust the military

They have made their allegiance to the pedophile known. They can be turned against dissenters at anytime.

[BootinUp]

47. I understand and agree with your opposition to the recent action but,

I am not sure that I would agree that a person in the military should have deduced they were being given an illegal order. With the information I have heard so far, it seems like the plan was well designed and carried out to minimize collateral damage. Now, if we don't want limited actions, like this one, to be taken by our government, then we have to get the right people in office, we have to convince our fellow Americans to vote better. But I wouldn't expect efforts to change the military in the way you suggest to be fruitful. And this latest action is quite different than the boat strikes where there were clearer lines crossed with regards to indiscriminate killing.

[calimary]

51. Yep. Some people only learn the hard way.

But then again, if you really and sincerely believe something, and you've believed it all your life, it's hard to accept that what you've cherished (and many Americans have fought and bled for) is kaput. Taken out. By some soft jerk who never served or shed a drop of blood for his country, but who somehow manages to get out of the harder (or bloodier) stuff, so far.

[doc03]

52. What makes this any more illeagal than Veitnam

or Iraq?

[ShazzieB]

61. Those situations were much more complex.

Last edited Mon Jan 5, 2026, 01:02 AM - Edit history (1)

I don't agree with either of those wars, or with the reasons the U.S. got involved in either of those situations. I'm not qualified to rule on the legality of either, but I definitely believe they were both wrong.

That said, I'm not sure what the legality or illegality of either has to do with an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation that was a complete surprise both to that nation and to the American people. Many experts are questioning the legality of that, and rightly so, imo.

[doc03]

63. It has been obvious with the military buildup that we were going to war

for at least the last three months.

[ShazzieB]

71. A lot of people have certainly been expecting something to happen, or fearing that it might.

But I don't think that anyone could have absolutely known for sure what was going to happen, much less when. Did some guess? I imagine so. But this seems to have come as a complete surprise to most, including members of Congress on both sides of the aisle.

I'm no expert on international law and am therefore not qualified to rule on the legality of this situation, but a lot of people who are much more knowledgeable than me are raising the alarm. Here's just one video on the subject. Maybe it will clarify why many see this as at least potentially illegal. If not, the many, many threads and links that have been posted on DU may help.

It's late, and I need to get to bed, so this will be my last post for the night.

[EX500rider]

66. How was Vietnam "illegal"?

We were allies with South Vietnam, allies frequently help each other in a war.
We didn't try to conquer the North, we tried to help defend the South.

[Bread and Circuses]

54. I had ZERO expectation that today's military would ho or their Oaths....

I’m sorry to say that.

They Pemtagon is a cesspool of extremists and the white men in uniform want to kill…

Yes, they will shoot on citizens .

[Kennah]

65. ICE will shoot people. They already have.

Even if the military won't, they certainly won't stand against ICE, so ...