I can see why some Democrats are holding their fire.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

You can be appalled at the recklessness of the operation while being in awe of the efficacy of it. I see a lot of celebratory tweets from MAGAS on twitter. I suspect they will age like milk. Trump said the Venezuelan vice president told Little Marco she was sympatico with their plans. She went on state tv to say she emphatically wasn't, and demanded Maduro's release. Hold on, lads and lasses, things are about to get spicy.

[RockRaven]

1. To anyone claiming success, refer them to Bush's "Mission Accomplished"

and how it went after that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. I just realized GWB didn't actually say "Mission Accomplished"

It was written on the side of the ship. I suspect "We're going to run Venezuela" is going to age as well.

[RockRaven]

9. While Bush didn't utter the words, the banner was provided by WH staff.

Setting aside who said it and how, the sentiment was woefully premature (and called out as such by the more rational/objective types at the time).

And that was well over a month into the invasion/occupation. Anyone talking shit and taking victory laps hours or days into this scenario is a damn fool. The proof of this type of pudding is years and years in the making.

[HAB911]

6. Iraq 2.0

[Lovie777]

2. The duly elected president in 2024 will try and take control................

I think the US will try and stop it.

[Sympthsical]

3. I think at least some of Maduro's allies were in on it

But they cannot be seen as being in on it.

Say what one will, but it is astounding how clean that operation was. I'm trying to think if there's any precedent for it. Even Noriega took 11 days to badger out of the Vatican embassy.

It feels like this wouldn't have been so insanely effective unless there are assets sitting inside the regime somewhere.

Of course, Trump being Trump, he has to run his mouth, because he thinks he's the most brilliant person in the room. If people inside the regime did help, the default thing to do is to keep that to oneself. If only for the sake of stability, so the people currently wielding power in the country don't start blasting at each other and devolve things further.

It's also difficult for DU to realize, I think, that Venezuelans overwhelmingly support this. So there's a trap where privileged Americans (let's be honest here) start telling Venezuelans how they should feel about this. I have a friend in Columbia at the moment, and I was yapping at him at 2am. People were thrilled but extremely nervous about a refugee situation. But no one is crying for Maduro this morning, and I think a lot of politicians are hesitant to be seen supporting his remaining. Condemning the illegality and Trump's authoritarian impulses while also not being perceived as supporting Maduro is a tightrope some Democrats are going to feel like they have to walk.

I don't know what to think. Don't like the action. Really apprehensive about instability and opening a can of worms that devolves and requires more involvement. Definitely do not want the U.S. running the country. Democratic elections should be the world's demand once the condemnation ebbs (and it will ebb quickly).

We'll see what we see. But yeah, Venezuelans are not nearly as pissed as DU and social media ecosystems are. Which probably says something. But, this has a very real possibility of morphing into a "Careful what you wish for" scenario for them.

[Keepthesoulalive]

10. Then let the people of Venezuela solve their problems

Whenever we go into a country to save it, the country is normally left in ruins. He’s trying to steal their oil. These are the most incompetent people since Bush 2. How did the last war work out?

[Sympthsical]

15. I do not disagree with you at all

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. F. Scott Fitzgerald

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function,"

You can believe Trump and Maduro are equally bad in their own way, and it's good that the latter is gone, but the lack of foresight makes it infinitely more likely than not it turns into a debacle.

[Sympthsical]

16. Yep. Apprehension is my overwhelming feeling

This can go sideways in about a dozen different ways, and the more Trump talks, the worse I feel about the prospects.

The man has a singular talent for pissing gasoline when a fire extinguisher is required.

[EarlG]

17. In the early days of the Iraq War

I recall a handful of befuddled folks -- not many, mind you, but a few -- thinking that because Bush invaded Iraq, it meant we had to stand up in support of Saddam Hussein. Uh... no.

I think most of the opposition to this latest action, on DU and social media, is not because people are fans of Maduro, it's because people don't think that the US should go around deposing foreign leaders, occupying their countries, and stealing their resources. There was certainly plenty of opposition to the Iraq invasion in the early days, but it really gathered steam after "Mission Accomplished" and the realization that the invasion was going to be a years-long occupation and rebuilding project, which would cost billions of dollars and the lives of thousands of US troops.

There's no doubt that a lot of Venezuelans disliked Maduro and are happy to see him gone (same for the Iraqis and Saddan Hussein), but that is today's story. As you say, we'll see what we see as this plays out over the weeks and months ahead. Any political message from Democrats is going to have to depend on events on the ground in Venezuela. Obviously all this shit literally just went down, so I'm not surprised that politicians are still figuring out how to respond.

That said, my guess is that plenty of today's Dem leaders learned lessons from the infamous Iraq War vote and how FUBAR these situations can get. In some ways, Trump might have actually done us a political favor by not forcing Democrats to go on record first, before taking this action. He has set himself up to take all the credit, and all the blame.

[Sympthsical]

18. 100% agree with you

The political implications and how different politicians may choose to handle the current moment may be a bit muddled in this current moment.

In some ways, Trump might have actually done us a political favor by not forcing Democrats to go on record first, before taking this action. He has set himself up to take all the credit, and all the blame.

This is very insightful.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. MAGAS are saying we should take their oil and give it to Americans at extraction cost

Besides being a war crime it would spell doom for American oil production. More oil=lower prices. Less oil=higher prices. The sweet spot for American oil producers is $65.00 a barrel. The cost to extract a barrel of Venezuelan oil is around $10.00.

[Captain Zero]

4. We have a DUer saying VP of Ven. is in Russia

So. First casualty of any war is the truth.

Trump saying VP of Venezuela has been sworn in as president there.

[Johonny]

7. It is the weekend. So they have time

No reason not to let this play out, badly. Monday is a long time away and many are out of town still.

[senseandsensibility]

8. Holding their fire is not a good strategy in my opinion

Saying you are taking over another country for their oil is not justifiable by any measure. Spending money to invade other countries instead of using the (taxpayer) money for healthcare is universally unpopular. Dems have plenty to work with already and need to keep it simple. Getting bogged down in the details is not productive at this point. And then there's Gov. Polis, who is cheering trump on with abandon. He posted a one hundred percent cheerleading response with no reservations at all.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. He's going to look foolish when it goes sideways.

[Scrivener7]

24. But how does that relate to Democrats holding their fire? It IS going to go bad, but

are you saying we should wait till it does? That doesn't change anything, and it's pretty squirrely.

This was wrong for many reasons. There's nothing wrong with our listing those reasons.

[Hugin]

14. They have faith in the touch of...

Shit. The US is so far off the rails it’s pricing pontoons.

[uponit7771]

19. There's **NO** good reason to hold fire. Pedonald technically committed US to war without congress

[BannonsLiver]

21. I agree

Let the media give him his flowers then wait for it to unravel in the days weeks months to come. If we had any kind of propaganda apparatus I’d be amplifying the betrayal of America First to magats with the hope of causing a few more to peel off.

[gulliver]

22. How do we know the Venezuelan veep wasn't sympatico?

Maybe Rubio told her they wanted her to demand Maduro be returned...

[MarineCombatEngineer]

23. I'm with you on this, despite my abhorrence at this illegal invasion and kidnapping of the leader of a

sovereign nation, the planning and professionalism of the US Military Special Forces was, IMHO, superb, there are very few other countries that could pull off such a feat, the UK's SAS or the SBS, for one, Chinese SF, Israel's Mossad, and maybe 2 or 3 more.

Don't misinterpret my words here please, I'm 100% against this illegal invasion and kidnapping, my admiration, as a retired service member, is for the US Military in keeping the casualties low and, so far, no reports of any US causalities.