Trump mistake #1 as I see it: Bringing the Maduros onto US soil

[Jersey Devil]

Rather than kill them or take them to Guantanamo, where they could rot forever with no due process, he chose to take them to the United States, where they are entitled to all the due process afforded to any other person put on trial under the Constitution.

This raises so many issues that have never been dealt with before, starting with the legality of kidnapping a foreign head of state and bringing him here with no due process whatsoever under extradition laws or treaties. Then there are issues of immunity very similar to those ruled on by SCOTUS in Trump's own criminal cases. Even if Trump crosses that bridge successfully, the US must prove to 12 jurors that the Maduros were personally behind all the drug trafficking and that somehow foreign heads of state are subject to US weapons laws when they never have stepped foot in America. These are not easy issues. And, ultimately, what if they are found not guilty? How stupendously disastrous would that be for the US?

[Emile]

1. Trump looking for a big payout to give him a pardon.

[Lovie777]

3. That's called conflict of interest..................

the DOJ and US AG are extremely incompetent and will make the conviction a clown show and further embarrassing the USA.

A duly qualified defense attorney can beat this.

[MLWR]

19. If that happens, a case could be made

that trump had him kidnapped and held for ransom.

[relayerbob]

39. Who will actually make the case?

No one.

[Hey Joe]

27. Ding, ding!

We have a winner!
I fully expect something like this.

[relayerbob]

38. Exactly

And this is likely just part of an overall scheme. It's not an accident that Russia and China have paid only minor lip service to this and no serious defenses were put up. He pays off Trump with a pile of crypto and gets pardoned and deported to somewhere like UAE or Dubai.

[EdmondDantes_]

42. Russia and China have other reasons for that

They both would be happy taking Zelinskyy or the head of Taiwan. They don't care if Trump gets richer.

[Irish_Dem]

2. Trump has been kidnapping people on US soil for a year now

Supreme Court and Congress are just fine with it

[Jersey Devil]

4. Not the same

People deported are sent out of the US under civil laws which do not afford the same protections as those put on trial under criminal laws. For starters, there are no juries for deportation.

[Irish_Dem]

7. You are talking the law. I am talking reality.

Two different things.

[Amaryllis]

25. You are right. Many are not being deported but just held in holding facilities.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Yes. Kidnapped and held in detention camps.

Hitler would be so proud of the US.

[sop]

6. Trump is "taking his ICE raids global."

[Irish_Dem]

8. Yes Trump is taking illegal kidnapping and detention on a world tour. :(

[Turbineguy]

5. Or Maduro can just flatter him and he'll get a pardon.

[Ol Janx Spirit]

12. Maduro and his wife only need to start telling the court and Faux Noise...

...how badly they were treated by the Biden administration when they invaded their country and took them in the middle of the night....

There's a non-zero percent chance that Turnip will not remember it was his Administration and pardon them.

[Hope22]

9. But, but, but....

I thought only US citizens were entitled to due process!! ………….

[IronLionZion]

10. Legal analysts on the news have said the opposite

Bringing them to trial in the US is precisely why this administration will face no legal consequences for how they captured them. The criminal charges and arrest warrants were filed during Trump's first term, just classified until now.

[Ms. Toad]

18. I hadn't run across that yet.

I'm glad it is being discussed - which may help temper Trump's goals of taking over the world.

All of Trump's bluster about running Venezuela was just that. But it is frightening bluster - especially to places like Greenland, which her is actively threatening. So the more this is viewed as a quasi-legal action of bringing an individual to the US to be tried, the harder it is to use it to justify invading a country in which there is no hint of it's leader violating US law.

[unblock]

32. How long before Donnie claims Greenland is a major fentanyl hub?

So far the charges against Maduro in terms of violating u.s. law seem to be, well, trumped up.

[Ms. Toad]

36. I agree as to the charges against Maduro -

But my only context for international law is contracts and patents. And, although I've taught criminal law, my practice is nearly 100% civil. That said, the indictment read to me as without basis in reality. But I haven't yet read the legal documents which would provide me with a better basis for comparison as to the parts which seem particularly fishy.

And, of course, the circumstances are different - involving a formal extradition - not an extra-territorial capture supported by the military (as their role has been described).

[patphil]

11. We played this game before with Noriega, president of Panama.

He spent time in a US prison and was passed to France and then back to Panama, where he died in prison.
Just like Venezuela, Panama was a drug distribution center, not a producer.
The big differences were that Noriega was also involved in weapons traffic, and, of course, Panama was a lot smaller than Venezuela and had no oil.

[Farmer-Rick]

13. Maduro didn't become president of Venezuela

Because he comes off as a make up covered, buffant hair-do, demented, slurring, psychopath like pedo Trump.

He is a powerful personality. This won't be as easy as the pedo is predicting.

[TBF]

14. I doubt there will be a trial -

a "suicide", plea deal, and/or pardon - any are more likely

Meanwhile, get those mineral rights shored up, and Epstein who?

[Ms. Toad]

15. The only chance for his actions to be legal,

It's to arrest him on New York soil. Read the indictment, which is the legal framework for the action. It specifies arrest in New York.

It is possible to try sometime like Maduro and get a conviction - it was done with the former president of Honduras (the one Trump just punished.

It is blatantly illegal for Trump to invade a foreign country with whom there is no legitimate basis for military action and to capture it kill it's leader.

The legal posture is that the military was only involved to protect the justice arm in its extradition process.

I still believe the action is illegal - the circumstances of getting Maduro here are very different than the president of Honduras, who was legally extradited. But this was done under the color of law. What you suggest has no such protection.

As for presidential immunity - I know that has been suggested, but that decision was an interpretation of the US Constitution, as to the President of the United States. It doesn't extend to the President of another country charged with violating New York law.

As for all of Trump's boasting yesterday, he was doing what he always does when he has an idea he wants, but those with any legal training know won't fly. Those in the background create legal cover, them let him run his mouth. They did it very successfully with the flag burning executive order - while everyone was busy reacting to Trump's yammering about a new law and very specific penalties, they didn't bother to read the actual order, which said nothing about either one.

So yesterday (and still today), people are reacting to Trump's regime changed yammering, and ignoring the carefully crafted legal document - which provides legal cover ONLY for capturing Maduro and bringing him to the US for trial. The rest of what was being said yesterday i will destroy and pretense of this being a legal action. Trump doesn't care, but those running this particular show do.

[flashman13]

16. Just one more "stupendously disastrous" stupid thing Trump has inflicted on America.

I'm still scratching my head over the machine gun thing. Wuh??

[hardluck]

17. Not a mistake but the act that provides the veil of legitimacy

This is actually very similar to the arrest of Noriega and most of the issues you outline were resolved in that case. The district court’s opinion provides you with a good outline of the facts and issues and their similarities to the current action.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/746/1506/1757098/

[ihaveaquestion]

20. How likely is it that any trial will take place before Jan, 20 2029?

If Maduro has any competent legal team at all, shouldn't they be able to delay an actual trial until after we have a new DOJ in place?

Case dismissed!

[VMA131Marine]

22. A competent prosecutor will probably be able to get a conviction

As I pointed out in another reply, there is a precedent: Manuel Noriega.

[COL Mustard]

29. If Maduro is lucky

Lindsay Halligan will be the prosecutor.

[VMA131Marine]

21. There is a precedent- Manuel Noriega

The Bush I regime captured him in Panama and put him on trial in the U.S. He was convicted and died in a U.S. prison. If there are any competent people left in Trump’s DOJ I’d expect them to follow the same playbook.

Noriega’s problem was that he started out by cooperating with the CIA and then when that relationship went south we went in and got him. Like Maduro, Noriega was not at all a nice guy. But I thought Trump had campaigned on not being the World’s policeman. There are lots of really terrible regimes around the world; are we going to go kidnap them all?

[Jersey Devil]

28. Noriega was extradited, Maduro was kidnapped

I think there is a big difference

[IronLionZion]

40. Noriega was captured by US military invasion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega#Capture

[ChicagoTeamster]

23. Guantanamo is a US govt installation. They would still be required to get due process there.

Wherever the US flag flies, the US constitution applies.

[Jersey Devil]

30. Not so for Iraqis and 9/11 actors

Some are stll there, no trials, no habeas corpus

[Melon]

24. Wasn't the same done with Manuel Noriega?

[Jersey Devil]

34. Noriega was extradited, not kidnapped

At least the US operated under color of law with Noriega. With Maduro there isn't even a pretext of following the law.

[AverageOldGuy]

26. Remember one thing:

The Not-So-Supreme Court has ruled if the President does it, it's legal.

[rampartd]

33. the precedents were set with noriega, weren't they

u think it is crazy to think that is law has jurisdiction in venezuela or panama, but this is not new.

[Doodley]

35. Most world leaders know Trump is a pathological liar and sociopath and will see this as a show trail, a kangaroo court

without an honest presentation of the facts.

No matter how they feel about Maduro, it isn't going to make America look good, in part because Trump has made his motives obvious. It is all about Trump's ego, power and money by grabbing the oil. How can the same man (Trump) order the kidnapping of a nation's leader to enrich himself and also be trusted to deliver a fair verdict, because Trump's influence over the DOJ means he is judge and jury? America will be seen as judge and jury. Meanwhile, Venezuela will likely descend into chaos, and people will ask how are things any better.

As for Maduro's wife, that will be hard to prove she is also guilty of crimes against America, so it will be a lot of BS, and a lot of expert witnesses who are only there to serve Trump. Any rational person will see it for what it is.

[relayerbob]

37. Maduro's going to pay him off and move to Dubai

You are assuming that anyone involved gives even a glancing notice as to legality

[LetMyPeopleVote]

41. Rubio: Venezuela strikes 'a law enforcement operation,' not 'invasion'

The trump administration is taking that there was no need to notify congress because this was NOT a military operation but a mere arrest or law enforcement operation

Rubio: Venezuela strikes ‘a law enforcement operation,’ not ‘invasion’

— USpolitics 🇺🇸 (@uspol.skyfleet.blue) 2026-01-04T21:33:57.887Z

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5672165-rubio-defends-venezuela-arrest/

Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on Sunday that the U.S. military activity in Venezuela this weekend did not require congressional approval because it was a law enforcement operation, not a prolonged invasion of a foreign country.

In an interview on ABC News’s “This Week,” Rubio defended the operation against claims that it was illegal.

“It wasn’t necessary because this is not an invasion. We didn’t occupy a country,” Rubio told George Stephanopoulos, when asked why congressional authorization wasn’t necessary.

“This was an arrest operation. This was a law enforcement operation. He was arrested on the ground in Venezuela by FBI agents, read his rights and removed from the country,” Rubio continued.

U.S. forces carried out a stunning operation overnight into Saturday morning to capture and arrest Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife and bring them back to New York to face charges related to drug trafficking, terrorism and firearms. Maduro is in custody at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, N.Y.

[Jersey Devil]

43. Were we assisting the Trumpezuelan Police?

I used to think Rubio was intelligent.