It's useless to argue with Trump supporters.

[yardwork]

The response to the attack on Venezuela is a good example. A majority of Republican voters support the action, even though one of their main reasons for voting for Trump was that he promised to focus on America and stop international involvement.

Trump just invaded another country and kidnapped their president. Trump says he's in charge of Venezuela now. This seems like the kind of international entanglement that many of his voters would dislike, but they're all in. Suddenly, it's "the best use of our tax dollars."

Why? Because they trust Trump. No matter how outrageous his words or behavior, hundreds of millions of Americans trust him. They figure there's a good explanation for everything he does. They believe he is a good, kind, strong leader who is using his own money to help America. NOTHING changes their minds.

Trump's supporters also believe that all Democratic politicians are crooks. They think Democrats are weak, misguided, criminal child abusers. Nothing we do or say changes these Trump supporters' minds.

I don't know how we can fix this. History suggests that the U.S. (and the world) will have to go through some terrible things before we come out the other side.

I'm sorry be so negative but I think a lot of what we're trying is a waste of time. Our only hope in my opinion is for some very strong Democratic leaders to emerge and start talking about what matters to the brainwashed fearful Trumpsters. Their clinging to Trump is fear-based, and that's the only way to approach them. Like frightened animals that will bite and claw at anyone who tries to save them.

[Clouds Passing]

1. It's useless to reason with Dumpy supporters, as they have no ability to reason.

[DBoon]

4. Their minds are full of fear and anger

A full lizard brain, purely reactive with no analytic capability

[B.See]

25. No ability... and more importantly

no DESIRE to reason. The greater the effort the greater the resistance.

Tell em something... "do you have proof? links?"

show them proof, links... "that's fake news.,"

denialism... willful and stubborn ignorance.

[yardwork]

29. Not all Trump supporters are poor at reasoning.

Many of them are successful small business owners, farmers, doctors, lawyers, military and first responders, nurses, teachers...

They have demonstrated the ability to reason and use facts in their lives and careers. They have a blind spot when it comes to Trump. The many different posts in this thread show why.

Over decades a lot of Americans have been conditioned to despise Democrats and trust Republicans. The reason for this is that most billionaires prefer to keep their stuff, not share, and squirrel away more and more. They are opposed to sharing. They are opposed to community. They're opposed to most of what the Democratic Party stands for, so they made sure we were demonized.

My point is that millions of people trust Trump no matter what he says or does. That's a big problem for democracy. Millions of us are living in a totally false alternate reality, and it's not clear to me how we fix that.

[dalton99a]

2. It is a waste of time and energy.

[B.See]

21. Or like I said DOZENS of times,

like talking to afkn BRICK.

[Johonny]

3. They all lack morals and brains

Most are racist first, thinking second type people.

[BootinUp]

5. The only way to properly present this is as more of

A mess than it was and with no way out of it and that Trump is going to make it even worse..

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

6. Trump jayes those that they hate, and acts on it

The anti immigration action has made his supporters weep with joy. Him insulting non white groups makes them weep with joy.

For this they will allow him to act a fool, enrich himself, destroy America's education, science, library, justice, health systems.

Or maybe they hope Dems will pull us out of the death spiral.

[MIButterfly]

7. I learned long ago not to talk politics with my right-wing uncle who's now 91 years old.

He had a reason (excuse?) for every single thing DJT did in his first term. EVERYTHING. He is so brainwashed by Fox News and its ilk. He never had a single opinion that Rush Limbaugh didn't pull out of his ass. Now that Limbaugh's gone, I have no idea who tells him what to think and absolutely no desire to find out.

He and my mother (his sister) used to argue politics every time they got together. It was an exercise in futility. She didn't change his mind and he didn't change her mind. They would just scream at each other and it always ended up in bad feeling. After she passed away, he tried to get me to debate him but I refused. I told him he was entitled to his own opinion but I happen to not agree with it and let's keep at that. If he starts, I bite my tongue and believe me, it isn't easy. He says the most ignorant stupid shit I've ever heard in my life and I either wait for it to pass or I change the subject. Only once did I respond and it was a complete waste of breath. He is too far gone down the right-wing rabbit hole and at his age, he's not going to change. And guess what? Neither am I.

[OMGWTF]

18. Why the fk do you even spend time with this moron? Who gives a damn if they are related.

My New Year's resolution for the last decade has been to keep fidiots and jerkholes out of my life. I recommend this to everyone.

[Oneironaut]

8. IMO, Trump supporters don't believe anything.

They’re nihilists who hate you. A debate to them is just a game to see how much they can frustrate you by making up points on the fly. It’s completely pointless.

They just want to make you look stupid because they think all political debate is useless. They prefer to be ruled instead and chase a high from seeing those they perceive to be weaker than them get crushed.

[Doodley]

9. They trust Trump on all the issues because he is the only 'politician' who they feel gets them (ie. their bigotry).

They don't need proof for anything Trump says because he ensures that every issue, in some way, connects to their bigotry.

[malaise]

10. The best explanation

Arrogance , hypocrisy and a lack of decency.
It’s always about making money and American superiority
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1611904720259169

[OMGWTF]

19. No Character

“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”

― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

[malaise]

20. Perfect

Rec

[multigraincracker]

11. My response....

Trumph says his base are Billionaires and the Uneducated.....You don't look like a Billionaire.

[Efilroft Sul]

12. Orcs are not intellectualists. They only know blind loyalty, anger, and nihilism.

[JI7]

13. They like him becsuse he is a bigot like them

They are ok with the grifting, sexual abuser, fraud and other things done by him as long as he keeps hurting certain people.

They are not honest.

I agree that it's a waste of time.

[Ping Tung]

14. "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason

“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”


Thomas Paine

[chouchou]

15. Worst thing I could say is: They ARE Trump.

[B.See]

26. and he, THEM.

[chouchou]

39. Your words are True

[Mysterian]

16. A cult of millions, created by right-wing control of the mass media

Right wing billionaires control what the American people see and hear on TV and radio.

https://www.freepress.net/who-owns-media

[yardwork]

28. I think that this is the main creation story.

It took decades to brainwash many Americans into believing the Democrats are bad, any Republican is good, and so Trump was inevitable.

[wiggs]

17. Not just invading other countries...pulling back on US interests as well. Safety nets, education, intelligence

readiness, health care, environmental integrity, ally reliability, economic stability...all in state of diminishment. America First?

And what was the Argentina bailout about? Is he blackmailing or bribing every western hemisphere country to allow US control?

[hibbing]

22. One of the main reason they voted for Trump

I don't believe that for a second. Kind of like the teabaggers were worried about economic issues.

Peace

[Fil1957]

23. Everybody on all sides of the politica spectrum used to agree on the provable facts. They might have different opinions

on how to respond to said facts, but we all lived in a common reality. Not anymore.

Combine that with the cult and the propaganda that goes with it, minds are much harder to change than they were in the past.

There is some good news however. He and the Republican party are engaged in policies that are unsustainable, and as a result they will destroy themselves.

The bad news is that it could take years, maybe longer for this to happen, and there will be a lot of innocent people who will suffer in the process.

[Bengus81]

27. Yep....Watergate comes to mind

[Fil1957]

33. This is MUCH WORSE. The corruption of this administration is at levels many many times that of Watergate

in terms of scope and magnitude. In addition, during Watergate very few people who were not part of the Nixon administration were hurt.

With the DJT criminal administration, an estimated 500,000 to a million people have DIED already as a result of just one illegal action: the withdrawal of funds for USAID.

That's just one issue, and he's just getting started.

In short, comparing this administration's activities to Watergate is like comparing a firecracker to a hydrogen bomb.

[Bengus81]

40. I was just replying to your first line of your post,not the point of severity

Which in a way is more important. Fifty two years ago Republicans would do the right thing with a criminal like Nixon who like Trump tried to steal an election. Republicans would have voted to throw his ass out of office and Nixon damn well knew it.

Today....shit your lucky if one or two of them will stand up,and that is why what Trump is more criminal than Nixon could ever thought of doing.

[OldBoss]

24. It's useless to argue with hardcore Trump supporters ...

I agree that hardcore Trump supporters will never change their stripes. Anyone who invokes TDS is not worth a nano-second of my time. However, in my purple county I’ve spoken with plenty of people who hate Dems/Libs but are increasingly uncomfortable with Trump. But the billionaires are winning, they created all this hate and like you I’m honestly unsure how to fix it. There’s no appetite to break up media monopolies, regulate industry, reverse Citizens United, etc.

[yardwork]

30. My concern is that they might sour on Trump but not the GOP.

As long as they still hate Democrats, they will vote for the next GOP huckster.

Unfortunately their hatred for Democrats is misplaced. They are exactly wrong about both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. (Unless they're billionaires - they are the only ones for whom supporting Republicans makes rational sense. Everybody else does better under Democrats.)

[H2O Man]

31. It's useless to argue.

Recommended.

There is no gain in arguing with anyone. However, in this context, it is important to remember the "three groups." The first already agree with you, the second already disagrees. No need to argue with either. The third group are the undecided. And those are the ones to reason -- not argue -- with.

[yardwork]

32. I'm feeling pretty discouraged.

Thanks for this post. You remind me not to give up hope.

[valleyrogue]

37. There are literally tens of millions of people of voting age who don't vote,

and that is who Democrats should target. The Trump supporters are completely hopeless. Their stupidity and stubbornness make them unreachable.

[Skittles]

34. yup

Try to imagine what their reaction to President Harris doing this would have been.

[UTUSN]

35. K&R for, yip futile to communicate with them.

[valleyrogue]

36. They are just like Trump, complete assholes.

Trump has made assholery into a virtue, which includes hatefulness, selfishness, and bigotry.

[TomSlick]

38. Arguing with MAGAts violates one of my basic rules to live by.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It accomplishes nothing and irritates the pig.