Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:21 PM Jan 2012

A Reverse Income Tax: A Bold Replacement for Social Security, Welfare, Food Stamps, and others

There are two basic arguments against social welfare/safety net programs. The first is that it creates less economic incentive to work because one starts to lose their benefits once they find employment. Why work a person take a minimum wage job when your economic benefits remain the same? The second is efficiency. We as a nation have multiple agencies directing checks to a lot of different people. In some cases, they aren't really "checks" but means to pay for things with lots of regulation on the individual. For example, the society wants to control what a person can buy with food stamps. The problem is, all that control comes with administration costs. For example, 14 percent of all money that goes towards food stamps goes towards administration costs.

WIth these two arguments in mind, let me suggest a radical solution. It is the reverse income tax. If you make up to 50K a year, the government would simply credit you with 30K a year on your pay check. Once you make over 50K, the government starts to take this money back until your income reaches over 125K. Over that amount, you are taxed on all your income at the same rate. This would be a simple tax on all income and replace all other federal taxes. I imagine that money over 125K would be taxed higher rate then it is taxed today. For retirements, one could simply increase the payout to 50K a year once a person reaches 65 age.

This basic concept would replace all social safety net programs, including welfare, food stamps, unemployment and other non nonmedical programs. The benefits would be twofold. One, it is efficiency. The government isn't trying to control the money or regulate it. It is simply giving it to lower income and middle class Americans. One could eliminate the Social Security administration, for example. I imagine the administration cost could be lowed to 1 or two cents for every tax dollar. The program could be administered simply through the IRS and done so in the same way they take a monthly tax from workers. Second, there is no reason for a person not to take a low paying job and get into the American work force. If someone is living off of the 30K from this program, getting a 20K a year job would simply give them an income of 50K. That would provide a decent livelihood for them.

The other aspect is that this would create a huge middle class that could buy stuff and keep the economy going.

Thoughts?

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A Reverse Income Tax: A Bold Replacement for Social Security, Welfare, Food Stamps, and others (Original Post) BrentWil Jan 2012 OP
The negative income tax was discussed in the Nixon Administration. immoderate Jan 2012 #1
Friedman did propose it.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #5
I had an uncle who proposed it in Canada. Studied it in university. From what I can remember it applegrove Jan 2012 #10
Well, even if they couldn't get a job, 30K a year is a decent safety net... BrentWil Jan 2012 #29
I like the idea notadmblnd Jan 2012 #2
actually, I think the idea has been around for a while, and I like it.... mike_c Jan 2012 #3
No it has... BrentWil Jan 2012 #6
Oy. Anything to get rid of SS. Nt xchrom Jan 2012 #4
it would likely be better than SS and would serve all the same purposes, in any event.... mike_c Jan 2012 #7
Please provide reliable authoritative citations xchrom Jan 2012 #11
People don't get 50K in SS benefits per year when they retire. That is what I am saying to give BrentWil Jan 2012 #13
Provide your authoritative background xchrom Jan 2012 #17
Its my fucking OP BrentWil Jan 2012 #23
You're not an expert - provide your authoritative links. xchrom Jan 2012 #35
I'm sorry-- the OP isn't mine and I don't have the inclination to research it's claims for you... mike_c Jan 2012 #16
Then don't assert it as though it's so. xchrom Jan 2012 #20
Here is some links... BrentWil Jan 2012 #25
I am proving a theoretical idea BrentWil Jan 2012 #26
It's fantasy - at best. xchrom Jan 2012 #34
2010 Social Security adminstrative costs: 0.9% muriel_volestrangler Jan 2012 #8
You are properly right on SS BrentWil Jan 2012 #15
Um...we're already there. At least in regards to efficiency jeff47 Jan 2012 #9
Yeah, I will change the OP now... 14% overhead is still high, however BrentWil Jan 2012 #18
Isn't there a big donut hole at 125K? How would this affect inflation? n/t Zalatix Jan 2012 #12
How so, you simply start paying once you cross the 125K threshold. BrentWil Jan 2012 #21
Yeah here's my response. Bullshit. lonestarnot Jan 2012 #14
are we just no longer having any civil discourse on DU? mike_c Jan 2012 #19
I agree. Nothing wins an argument like saying bullshit... NT BrentWil Jan 2012 #31
No thanks. I paid into Social Security, and I don't want a tax credit. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #22
It wouldn't be a tax credit BrentWil Jan 2012 #27
Another way to look at it is as a guaranteed income. Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #30
I've been making a similar argument for 30+ years. Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #24
Much easier to simply give the money... BrentWil Jan 2012 #28
Unfortunately, people are too tied to the competition thing without thinking it through... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #32
Well, this doesn't do away with the competition.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #33
It does away with the worst part of capitalism competition. Hunger, homelessness... Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #40
It helps.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #53
Who know how much mental illness is a result of a failure to thrive Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #54
That is unknowable.. but mental illness is something that should be handled by a society.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #55
No thanks MFrohike Jan 2012 #36
I am arguing for greater "unemployment or social security benefits" for all BrentWil Jan 2012 #37
If you think so MFrohike Jan 2012 #42
I like the basic concept, but of course the devil is in the details. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #38
I don't understand the logic BrentWil Jan 2012 #39
If the low wage employee made more money, ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #43
No.. under 50K of income, 30K in benefits.. working or not working NT BrentWil Jan 2012 #45
Oh, I misunderstood the plan. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #46
My take quakerboy Jan 2012 #41
I hate to go all Republican on you.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #44
Then you dont get quakerboy Jan 2012 #47
Let me rephrase... BrentWil Jan 2012 #48
They already are pretty near meaningless quakerboy Jan 2012 #49
There is no system human's won't decry BrentWil Jan 2012 #50
Thats true. quakerboy Jan 2012 #51
Thats the other benefit of my plan.. BrentWil Jan 2012 #52
Neither plan has a shot quakerboy Jan 2012 #56
 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
1. The negative income tax was discussed in the Nixon Administration.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:29 PM
Jan 2012

I understand it's also been proposed by Milton Friedman.

Having said that, I think this is the easiest vehicle to implement the wealth redistribution our economy needs. Makes a lot of sense.

--imm

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
5. Friedman did propose it..
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:42 PM
Jan 2012

Basically, said if the problem is the poor don't have enough money, then give them money. Wasn't a fan of centralized systems and planning. In this case, it does make a lot of sense and would eliminate many of the problems with the current system.

I don't think todays GOP is going for this idea.

applegrove

(118,642 posts)
10. I had an uncle who proposed it in Canada. Studied it in university. From what I can remember it
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:28 PM
Jan 2012

rewards low income people for getting a job, then getting a better job. But the jobs do have to be available.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
29. Well, even if they couldn't get a job, 30K a year is a decent safety net...
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:57 PM
Jan 2012

Plus, it creates a middle class. They buy things and spend the money.. That creates jobs.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
3. actually, I think the idea has been around for a while, and I like it....
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:38 PM
Jan 2012

Of course, it presumes that the government's function is to administer the welfare of it's citizens, rather than bludgeon them while corporations bleed them dry, so a fundamental philosophical realignment would be necessary....

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
7. it would likely be better than SS and would serve all the same purposes, in any event....
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:47 PM
Jan 2012

It's not "getting rid" of SS if it's really "replacing SS with something of equal worth."

The notion that SS is untouchable is inherently CONSERVATIVE if it means we oppose improving it!

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
13. People don't get 50K in SS benefits per year when they retire. That is what I am saying to give
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:34 PM
Jan 2012

them

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
17. Provide your authoritative background
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:39 PM
Jan 2012

That this is how it would work out.

Once a program goes to the senate & house work ups - things don't come out like you describe.

Please provide citations - how does this happen?

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
23. Its my fucking OP
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:47 PM
Jan 2012

Read it. That is what I am saying I would do. It is my fucking idea (Well Krugman, Friedman, and Reich might have helped)

What research do you want?

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
35. You're not an expert - provide your authoritative links.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:32 PM
Jan 2012

You present as though you're an authority - you are NOT.

Do the fuckin work at the out set.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
16. I'm sorry-- the OP isn't mine and I don't have the inclination to research it's claims for you...
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:37 PM
Jan 2012

...but on the face of the proposal the OP outlines, in which EVERYONE gets credited with a social welfare check, the system would essentially be SS for everyone, equivalent to Medicare for everyone. There is nothing inherently wrong with that proposal, and it could indeed improve SS, if only by reducing administrative costs.

No one wants to destroy the social safety net SS represents. Personally, I would only support proposals that strengthen it-- but a stronger safety net that isn't SS is fine with me, as long as poor and working class people benefit.

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
20. Then don't assert it as though it's so.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:41 PM
Jan 2012

Once in committee - it isn't going to come out like this.

You're supporting the OP - let's see the evidence.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
26. I am proving a theoretical idea
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:53 PM
Jan 2012

And saying, what would be the downside or upside. I am not commuting myself to supporting any bill or anything piece of legislation.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,312 posts)
8. 2010 Social Security adminstrative costs: 0.9%
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:49 PM
Jan 2012
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/admin.html

Where does your "60 cents out of every dollar goes to these different adminstration costs in most social safety net programs" come from?

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
15. You are properly right on SS
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:35 PM
Jan 2012

I will reword my OP tonight or tomorrow when I get the time and I was writing from simple memory. However, the .9 number does show the effect of economy of scale. If you combine everything, efficiency really would increase.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
9. Um...we're already there. At least in regards to efficiency
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:58 PM
Jan 2012

Administrative costs are much smaller than you think they are.

Brookings, who absolutely and completely detest food stamps and overstate the costs as much as possible came up with about 14% administrative costs. http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2008/03_food_stamp_isaacs.aspx

I believe where your 60% confusion comes in is the Feds pay for 60% of the administrative costs incurred by the states. That would be 60% of Brookings's 14%, aka 8.4% of total spending, aka 8 cents per dollar.

As for your plan overall, how long do you think it would last when the right starts claiming everyone getting money from the program is using YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO BUY DRUGS!!!!1!!!!111!!!!!

Plus, you are targeting Social Security, which already has administrative costs below 1%. It's really easy to administer since eligibility is universal. Your proposal requires hiring a slew of tax investigators to prevent people from hiding income and thus receiving a government pay-out. That's expensive.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
18. Yeah, I will change the OP now... 14% overhead is still high, however
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:40 PM
Jan 2012

14% is still high and it would save a lot with that program.

I will reword the OP. The 1% administration cost of SS does show an economy of scale effect. One system giving out checks would be a lot cheaper.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
21. How so, you simply start paying once you cross the 125K threshold.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:42 PM
Jan 2012

All tax revenue would come from money earned over 125K by an individual or 250K by a couple.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
19. are we just no longer having any civil discourse on DU?
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:40 PM
Jan 2012

You know, the redneck asshats I used to have as neighbors in South Carolina used to respond "Bullshit!" whenever they needed to be especially articulate and reasonable. Otherwise they'd just grunt.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
22. No thanks. I paid into Social Security, and I don't want a tax credit.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:44 PM
Jan 2012

I'm happy with Social Security. It costs very little to administer it.

Change the things that are wrong -- like the low taxes on hedge fund incomes and private, for-profit health insurance, and leave the things that work, like Social Security just the way they are.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
30. Another way to look at it is as a guaranteed income.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:57 PM
Jan 2012

It would open up a world of innovation and creativity. It would mean Social Security from the moment you enter the workforce until the grave.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
24. I've been making a similar argument for 30+ years.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:51 PM
Jan 2012

The inefficiencies are not only rife in administration but in enforcement. I've witnessed (and advocated for) women being investigated for welfare fraud because they bring in a bit of extra money by taking in laundry or baby sitting. The investigations entail multiple home visits, neighbor visits, tailing the "suspect" and her children; resulting many times with three felony charges (3 strikes) being brought against the recipient an arrest (police costs), children taken away (family services costs) and a trial (public defender and court costs). The system is as insane as Ron Paul.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
28. Much easier to simply give the money...
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:55 PM
Jan 2012

And start taking it back once they are safely in the middle class.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
32. Unfortunately, people are too tied to the competition thing without thinking it through...
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:07 PM
Jan 2012

Capitalism is a competition and as with all competitions there will be those who will excel, and there will be losers. Though in capitalism, unlike a marathon, the losers pay with their life rather than celebrate the finish with a bottle of gatorade with family and friends.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
33. Well, this doesn't do away with the competition..
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 11:16 PM
Jan 2012

Your first 125K would be basically tax free.... But I don't think the tax rate should be high enough to discourage people from trying to bring in more income.. nor does it need to be.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
40. It does away with the worst part of capitalism competition. Hunger, homelessness...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:29 AM
Jan 2012

unrelenting boot on the neck from the state and society.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
55. That is unknowable.. but mental illness is something that should be handled by a society..
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 12:06 AM
Jan 2012

What ever economic system you put forward, some people will fall through the cracks because of issues with mental illness. You should deal with that. Maybe, local communities could direct the use the 30K for people that are found mentally incompetent. Just a thought.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
36. No thanks
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:00 AM
Jan 2012

This is, in effect, a very big welfare check. Welfare has been, is, and likely will continue to be extremely vulnerable to the partisan swings of government. This "thought experiment" would ask us to trade the invulnerability (as far as it goes) of Social Security for the constant political sniping associated with the dole. No thanks. You wouldn't achieve any efficiency gains if the rules were changed every 2-4 years, which isn't out of the question given the recent political climate. Instead, your agencies would spend more time determining new tables of payouts and eligibility, which would raise the administrative costs which, in turn, would lead to greater criticism of "failing" government programs.

In short, no thanks. I do generally agree with the policy of subsidies over tax incentives because it's far easier to track a check than money you didn't receive but this idea is just wrongheaded in terms of American politics. You'd be better served arguing for greater unemployment or Social Security benefits. Hell, you'd be better off arguing for a merger of the two in order to create some kind of lifetime minimum income.

It would require some restraints on spending, though. First because any money the government spends, it has a right and duty to ensure it's spent for legitimate and necessary purposes. Second, to ensure that the money isn't spent on useless purposes, like gambling, addiction, and the like. It's not unreasonable to expect that those on some form of government assistance not use that assistance for counterproductive purposes. It's not unreasonable to require it, either.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
37. I am arguing for greater "unemployment or social security benefits" for all
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:29 AM
Jan 2012

First, anyone that makes under 125K would get some money and everyone making under 50K would get 30K. The vast, vast majority of Americans would get this, and it would not be very unpopular once in place. I am not buying this popularity argument. If this ever passed, no one would be able to touch it.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
42. If you think so
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:37 AM
Jan 2012

FDR believed the payroll tax was the key to preserving Social Security because it gave each recipient a concrete stake in the program. He felt that nobody would ever be able to take away the money that people had contributed precisely because it could be shown that they had contributed. It would be damn hard for some "conservative" to come along 80 years later and kill the program because people would be incensed at the theft of their money.

I really don't like the idea because, which I failed to say before, I don't like transfer payments unaccompanied by a work requirement. Perhaps your idea does have such a requirement, but I didn't see it. I would prefer something like the jobs guarantee, where government provides employment to cover the slack between current unemployment and full employment.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
38. I like the basic concept, but of course the devil is in the details.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:39 AM
Jan 2012

We would have to see a comparison of the numbers in order to make an educated decision.

One interesting aspect of your plan is it would probably eliminate raises as rewards for low paying jobs. What would be the point of going from $9.00/hour to $9.25/hour? However, employers could reward valued employees with additional vacation days.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
39. I don't understand the logic
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 12:57 AM
Jan 2012

If you are making 20K under this plan, you would be in reality getting 50K. Why would an employee not value making 55K by making 25K from the employer? 5K more is 5K more.

The problem is when you start to slowly take the benefit way once you reach 50K of income. However, if you look at the scale, one loses the benefit when they reach 125K of income. That means, that their income has to go up 75K to lose a 30K dollar benefit. In other words, for 2.5 dollars one makes over 50K, the government would take 1 dollar. I don't really think this is a huge problem for those jobs either.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
43. If the low wage employee made more money,
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 02:22 AM
Jan 2012

wouldn't the employee receive less tax money?

Wouldn't a 20k salary receive 30k in benefits, while a 25k salary receive 25k in benefits?

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
41. My take
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:37 AM
Jan 2012

No. I don't like creating different classes of people. People will use anything to look down on others. higher income persons would feel that much more justified in demanding greater power under your system.


Instead I would propose a different system. A Flat Tax, Flat payment system.

To make up specific numbers, an across the board 75% tax on all income of all types, no matter what the source.

Then to make up more numbers, 7.5% to go to national defense. And 7.5% to provide national health care. 7.5% to education, 7.5% for other government functions.

And the remaining 45% to be divided equally among all US citizens meeting any of the following criterion: Currently working. Having worked a total of 30 or more years in the US. Being over the age of 65. Being injured or ill in such a way that work is impossible or prohibitively difficult. Any situation that would currently qualify one for Unemployment, SS, SSI, SSDI, etc.

Everyone pays in a flat percent of their income, thus retaining a flat percent of their income, preserving the good that comes from the profit motive, allowing creativity and innovation to flourish. And everyone receives a flat equal portion back, whether you are a millionaire or a burger flipper.

There are issues to be dealt with. What about kids? What about people who are doing volunteer work to benefit the community. What about churches. What about local taxes and issues, and Im sure there are any number of quibbles with the apportionment to particular divisions of the government. But I think the general idea is sound.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
47. Then you dont get
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 05:51 PM
Jan 2012

Then you don't get a share of the total that gets paid back.

If you chose to be homeless, that's your right. But when it is a choice, not a situation forced on you, it would seem to be a silly one, generally speaking.

What this would do is increase the amount a minimum wage earner takes home, and mellow out the income distribution curve. High earners still earn more. Its just that everyone gets at least a chance to make due.

At minimum wage you would take home $21754 a year (25% of $7.25*40hours a week*52 weeks= $3770, Per capita Us Income 39945*307 million*45%*1/307millionth share=$17975). Keep in mind that this is with your health care paid for, after tax money.

At Mitt Romney's income, I would quite be willing to make $5,442,975 (21.7 million*25%=5,425,000, same share of total=$17975)


In fact, I am fairly certain that the share number is actually higher than what I have represented, for a few reasons. For instance if you include all income, not just income earned from working, the per capita number should rise, and with it the end share number. I am just having no luck finding good numbers for that at the moment.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
48. Let me rephrase...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:38 PM
Jan 2012

I ain't working very hard .

The benefit of my plan is an adknowledgement of human nature. If you take 75% from every working, you make any raise for a mid-range working pretty near meaningless.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
49. They already are pretty near meaningless
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:02 PM
Jan 2012

Here's the thing... If you don't work hard, there's always someone else who will. We have an overabundance of labor as compared to the needs of our country. So the level of acceptable work remains an issue for you and your employer to work out, same as it is now.

The having a job itself is tied to the money(with the exception of those who are unable to work). All my idea does is level things out, while still leaving that 25% as your incentive do do better, to earn more, etc.

The detriment of your plan is that it inherently goes against human nature as well. Human nature is not a single faceted thing. In the case of your plan, those paying into the system will decry it and attempt to destroy it. And they will be joined by the many others who have been convinced that it is unfair to take cash from those hard working "job creators" and give it to the lazy poor.

This is why Republicans are still in existence as a party, despite their clear plans to destroy SSI, Unemployment, Medicare, medicaid, and all our other social safety programs. Just about everyone, even those many republicans who pay no income tax themselves and live off government programs, believe they are better, they are good, and those lazy other(welfare queens, blacks, youngsters, pick your preferred scapegoat) are milking the system. Make it flat, across the board. You take away the "unfairness" that they like to complain of. You nuke a significant portion of their talking points all at once. Flat tax. Give the tax money back to the people. Etc.

It becomes a lot harder to rationalize complaining about someone else getting money from a program if you, and your mother and your cousin and your favorite WWE star and your favorite NASCAR driver and your favorite musician and your elected state representative and your pastor all get exactly the same payment from exactly the same program.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
50. There is no system human's won't decry
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:20 PM
Jan 2012

However, in our system (Democratic) it is the number that decry it. Social Security is the least at risk program because it is a benefit that all Americans get it at a certain age. Less then 10 percent of the population make more then 125K. I would argue that not all those people would oppose it. This system would give extreme income mobility to many and the society would have more people that breach the 125K mark. Your last paragraph makes my point, perfectly. If everyone is getting it, the program would be popular. (Once in place, would be very difficult to get in place)



We do have a lot of labor. However, if you create this system, you create a system in which increased labor out is not encouraged. This is a systematic problem that could lead to huge long term problems down the road.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
51. Thats true.
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:06 PM
Jan 2012

Your system only pays out to some. Mine pays out to everyone. And that potential 10% left out of yours are the ones that control the vast majority of the resources. Even if you add some income to everyone in the bottom 90, they still control a much larger portion of the resources.

Our ideas provide the same benefits, I believe. I believe mine is more fair and harder to take issue with (once you get past the initial "they gonna take how much of my pay?&quot

Increased labor out is not really desirable. In my opinion. We have maybe more man hours than we need to accomplish the work that needs done to keep our society running. We either need to reduce the available man hours or increase the work that needs done. But there are only so many floors that need sweeping, only so many burgers to flip, and so many spreadsheets to make. I'm going off topic here, but we should really be reducing the work week to 30 or so, with a pay increase to make it viable.

BrentWil

(2,384 posts)
52. Thats the other benefit of my plan..
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:35 PM
Jan 2012

It will increase the amount of work that will be done. It will create a huge middle class. This will push consumer consumption through the rough, and the economy will keep expanding. This will ensure the continued technological advancement of our society and ensure the United States continues to be an engine of global economic growth.

Plus, my plan is more sellable, honestly. Not that either one has a realistic shot of becoming reality, but for our culture, I think it is a better match.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
56. Neither plan has a shot
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:13 AM
Jan 2012

And I think I could make an argument that any world that would allow one would allow the other. Of course in that world, its entirely possible neither would be necessary to begin with.

That said.. We don't need more work done. We don't need more consumption. We have everything we need, excepting technological breakthroughs. and those are not something that we will get by throwing increased production/consumption at the universe. What we need is more time for parents to spend helping their kids with homework, more time for people to cook a healthy dinner, etc.

This idea of limitless growth is killing us. We need sustainability. What you describe sounds a lot like cancer to me, growth for its own sake.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»A Reverse Income Tax: A ...