For the mobs who want to BURN IT DOWN

[graham4anything]

when you finishing burning it down
all that you will have left is burning each other down

because that is what mobs do

The revolution was won in 2008, peacefully. Stop trying to get rid of all that was won
by not being able to follow the script that is being written.
A redwood doesn't grow in a day.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Great post! But ...

This is the latest DU fad. It will pass, not unlike disco music or Earth Shoes, but we will have some painful moments.

[RainDog]

8. why is this a great post?

This person, as I noted below, is the ONLY one who mentions mobs and burning things. It's a post full of nothing but bullshit.

Is that your definition of greatness?

[leveymg]

71. A fascist post. The OP equates criticism with mob violence and says we should all just obey.

We're not building a Thousand Year Redwood Tree or Reich. We just want the progressive leadership we hoped we had helped to elect, twice.

We won't be silenced by this sort of bullshit.

[Justpat]

121. Thank you.

[mmonk]

130. Thanks for a sensible post.

[Yo_Mama]

142. Yeah

Criticism and discussion is the lifeblood of a democracy.

This sort of stuff makes no sense and is likely to weaken the Democratic party rather than strengthen it.

[Sherman A1]

75. Well,

there are those pesky facts, but don't stop him, he is on a roll.

[Alamuti Lotus]

87. On a troll? That's a bit more accurate..

[Sherman A1]

134. I disagree

however, it is possible that there might be "rather interesting and perhaps inexplicable" views on things which we have yet to explore.

The egg nog is strong in some of us.

[RainDog]

2. who's talking about burning it down?

I was gone all through the gun fracas, etc. can you bring me up to speed?

Who is talking about burning and what are they talking about burning?

[JaneyVee]

3. Fill us in on the meaning of the subtext.

[RainDog]

6. I think I may have found the reference for this one

however, the person who made the OP is the one who talks about a mob and burning things down.

No one else does.

If I remember my linguistics class - that's called creating a straw man (i.e. a non-existent entity) in order to attack said straw man.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2094564

iow, the OP is a flaming pile of bullshit.

[RainDog]

16. can you link some of the rabid mob events here?

As I said - you were the only one referring to a mob and burning, so as far as I or anyone else reading this post or the other one know - you're the one who is engaging in witch hunts and mob mentality.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

63. I've asked a few posters last night to do the same thing,

and they couldn't or wouldn't post one link. I was told it was my job to dig for it.


Amazing. Effin amazing.

[RainDog]

66. as I just noted in meta - this post seems to be a meta topic

it deals with feuds between particular DU-ers and not anything that exists outside of this forum.

[graham4anything]

78. No, this post has to do with the main stream media and Ralph Nader

third parties have NOTHING to do with here

[graham4anything]

79. We are talking about the MSM and Ralph Nader 3rd parties in general.

Ralph Nader does not belong on democratic underground because he is diametrically opposed to getting democratic canddiates elected.

Nader=the rightwing media, who supported and financed 2000 and 2004 to stop Democratic candidates from winning

if Nader was serious, the fool would have ran for local or state office

he lied when he said he was an environmentalist, then he defeated Al Gore, the single biggest name environmentalist to run as nominee for President but not win.

[RainDog]

126. If that is honestly the point of discussion

why do you and buzz clik slap one another on the backs about the "usual suspects" and make comments to others here regarding their positions on various issues rather than simply address the (nonissue at this time) Nader and the media that lies to the American people?

That's not what you've done here.

If you want to talk about the lies from the media - you'll not likely find one liberal who disagrees with you on that point.

AFAIK, Gore won the election that the Supremes gave to Bush. Even with a third party candidate and even with Tipper annoying the entire music community with labeling. I didn't agree with Zappa - I thought she was reasonable when parents want to have some sort of idea about music for, say, preteens - but Tipper's crusade against music lyrics didn't do the Democrats any favors among liberals and the right is so entrenched, the labeling of lyrics didn't pull people away from Republicans, or so it seems.

As far as Gore - it seems he doesn't want to be in politics anymore - in the realm of candidate for office. It seems he doesn't want to exist in that world b/c of the compromises and the obsfucation required in order to appeal to a widely ignorant voting population.

It seems that he's no longer fighting that fight. So why are you? Or are you? I don't think you're being honest with this reply. In any case, as I noted below, you don't appeal to anti-authoritarians with authoritarian dictates. ymmv

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

64. anti-posts...

If you mix a post and an anti-post do the explode?

[Dragonfli]

83. It depends on the containment field integrity of the anti-post reacter

It is a dangerous endeavor for a pre-warp post culture.

[datasuspect]

4. BURN BABY BURN

[graham4anything]

10. and what do you have left but nothing and Jeb Bush in 2016

NO they are not the same.

but that is the choice

them
us

there is NO other way

and btw-I am now happy.
those that want more of their "wedge" issues, and wedge issues are all the corny
small stuff we shouldn't sweat over as the late Dr. Dyer said, should run themselves for office and get out the congressperson in their personal district they don't like.

If you want 100 Al Franken's, then elect 100 Al Franken's, but remember, Al Franken when a 60th is needed, votes with the President. When his vote is not needed, he does as he chooses.
Do you see the wisdom in that? I do.

[datasuspect]

24. you know what, fuck that noise

i've lived through nixon, reagan, both bushes, watched the democratic party become something my grandfather wouldn't recognize and the best anyone can come up with is SCARE TACTICS?

[Chan790]

100. +1

Well, not Nixon. I was born during Carter's administration...but I'm not scared of boogiemen either.

You know what scares me? The center-right fool in the White House that we're supposed to ignore is a center-rightist for the good of the party...it's all very The emperor's new clothes to me.

Criticism and dissent is patriotic. Lemmings are not.

[kurtzapril4]

143. Wish I could rec this a few times! n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

65. "there is NO other way "

I thought that there was a third way...not that I would take that path. It tends to veer off to the right.

[sibelian]

92. And wear your crown of ashes with pride, eh?

No thanks.

[datasuspect]

108. then go get a billion dollars, buy a network

and then you get to participate.

[sibelian]

133. Well, there is an alternative, although it's going to be a lot of work

There's always been propaganda. There's always been a "mainstream". Buying your own network isn't going to help, I think, because the process of setting it up in the first place distorts what it can achieve.

The alternative is to encourage people to ignore it, or at least see it for what it is.

[Odin2005]

5. Those who try to make Heaven on Earth cause Hell on Earth.

[BlueCaliDem]

52. I like that line. eom

[Odin2005]

118. Got it from the philosopher Karl Popper...

...in his Magnum Opus The Open Society and it's Enemies, a defense of Liberalism against Totalitarianism written during the depths of WW2. Had he lived long enough to see the Neo-Cons take over the US in 2000 he would have died out of sheer terror.

Libertarians like to name-drop him because he was a friend of Fred Hayek, which is ironic because he supported a strong Swedish-style welfare state, which Libertarians think is TEH EVIL!!!

[BlueCaliDem]

140. I appreciate this back story. You've just helped expand my knowledge

and I thank you for that.

I'm not big on reading philosophers, but I pick up bits and pieces from well-read people like you. So thank you, Odin2005.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

7. We've had an influx of pyromaniac trolls?

Honestly, I'm missing something here.

[jberryhill]

11. Watch out! You might get what you're after

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. Egads! It's my JR High Prom!

We did think we were pretty hot back then...but, combustible? Nah.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

69. Possibly. Perhaps even a fire drake.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

73. Oh great, now Beowulf is going to bail on us, too.

The caver. All that slaying of Grendel and Grendel's mother was just to gain our trust and get us to support him so he could die and his cousin could take over. I've never trusted Wiglaf, I know he's actually a Republican in Geats clothing just waiting to sell us out.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. More of the strangest, most disjointed shit I've ever read.

[graham4anything]

14. it's deja vu all over again. Like 1968,1980,2000

make of it what you will

but fracture will lead to nothing at all.

so what will that get the mobs?

10% of something is better than 100% of nothing
and others are picking up on this statement I have said for many years now

[Luminous Animal]

17. That's cool. You are creating your own 'we want 10%' mob. "What do we want! 10%! When do we want it!

In 5 years!"

A hearty good luck!

[graham4anything]

27. Did Bush give you the 10% forward? Did Bush41? Reagan? Nadar? Zippo. Nothing.

1968 proved it. live and learn
and the great protesters who survived learned that lesson over the years.
the ones that unfortunately did not make it, probably would have learned it

[Luminous Animal]

39. Did Clinton?

Nope.

[graham4anything]

40. Hillary45 will. She will be far to the left of Bill

Bill gave us a surplus and in retrospect, did the best he could in the time he was in
He did give us 10% in his first term and 10% in his second.
I don't include him in my top 5 presidents. But he has moved up in my opinion in retrospect.


Bush43 was a loser who was destined to one term as a loser nothing, until 9-11 happened
Bush was a negative 70% driving us so far backward.

he was reduced to photo ops in classrooms reading about ducks. Who knew it was his alibi.

Bill tried with healthcare and overreached and got nothing. NOTHING 0%
one of the reasons Teddy backed Obama in the first place
live and learn though

you don't overreach,
It's like going to a buffet all you can eat
you get what you can finish, then you go back for more.
Instead of the people that stack their plates so high you look at it and feel like throwing up before you even eat a bite

[Chan790]

101. A pernicious lie I'm getting tired of popping.

You have no basis or subtext to conclude that the former SoS who was a Goldwater girl, ran a primary campaign as more-centrist/conservative than the current President and openly admits to being more conservative than her former-President husband will be more liberal than Bill. There is counter-factually to your assertion a mountain of evidence that she will be no such thing.

It's a bullshit-pie in the sky.

[graham4anything]

102. She was an Alinsky fan. He is a Chicago super liberal. You are the one wrong. either way, She wins.

[Chan790]

107. So is Karl Rove and so was Lee Atwater.

Good tactics is good tactics. Literally, every asshole strategist on the RW has read Alinsky (and Chomsky and Lakoff)...it's why they demonize him so much, it's to scare others off reading it and learning the same tactics. It's the same reason I read Frank Luntz and a lot of other pompous RW gasbags.

Hillary Clinton is not a liberal and reading Alinsky is not proof of anything.

[graham4anything]

117. if she runs, she wins, so it matters little.

[sabrina 1]

128. She will not get my support nor the support of any Democrat I know. We don't need

to go back to the Third Way politics that led to where we are today. We need new leadership in the Dem Party. Enough with the same old politics that have left this country devastated.

If Dems want to lose, they will run Hillary. I think she is smart enough to know that times have changed and the people want new ideas and a return to actual Democratic principles.

Young people especially are now way more informed than they used to be not getting their 'news' from the MSM and having to face the future created for them by the decisions made over the past several decades that were so bad for this country.

Elizabeth Warren I would definitely support, someone who is in touch with the people.

[graham4anything]

137. We know.

You have made that evident 150 times before.

the revolution was won in 2008. Nobody wants anything different than what President obama has to offer.

And it was President Obama who gave her the senate seat anyhow. Without him, she would not have won. It was his coattails you know.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

67. "10% of something is better than 100% of nothing"

So 10% of a bee sting (literally something) is better than 100% of no bee sting?

I'm not sure you have though this through.

[graham4anything]

82. 10% compounded daily equals 100% in 10% increments added on pretty quickly

100% of
nothing leaves nothing you gotta have something- Billy Preston(c)

I get it.

[Bonobo]

13. How can I put this delicately....

What in FUCK'S name are you talking about!??!??!??

[Luminous Animal]

15. The OP is hunting imaginary witches.

[Fumesucker]

22. Someone has been hitting the brown eggnog a bit too hard n/t

[AsahinaKimi]

45. I don't understand these obscure posts...

One where the Op is trying to be clever, and saying a few words, that only maybe a tiny few will even understand, what they are talking about. Its become something of a fad here at DU. Someone writes a topic and then makes a few words, without links or anything..and the rest of us are standing around scratching our heads, wondering what is being said. If someone has something to say, maybe they should just put it out there, rather than let us guess at what they are talking about.. Its frustrating coming across posts like this, because it makes you mostly believe you walked into the middle of something and have no clue as to what is going on, and of course no one is going to help you figure it out.

[Bonobo]

61. Ossharu toori, Kimisan. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

68. honto ni

Bonobon san did you see my posting in Asian Group? http://www.democraticunderground.com/1250750

Torawo torunara torawo toru yori toriwo tore, toriwa otorini torawo tore.

[Bonobo]

70. Just added a few "hayakuchi kotobo" (tongue twisters). nt

[tradecenter]

109. Don't stop him now,

he's on a good rant roll.

[NoOneMan]

18. 2008 was a revolution?

Wow.

I saw it as a strengthening of the system, which identified weaknesses and reinforced itself to prevent collapse; depending on your overall view of our system of production and governance, that could be a good or bad thing.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Hey, quit dissing revolution... my new laundry soap is revolutionary... the TV told me so.

[NoOneMan]

25. Hey, if thats where we are setting the bar

Ok, 2008 was at least as revolutionary as laundry soap.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

72. Speaking of bars...

I was leaving after a Celtics game ended when two guys in front of me started talking to each other.

Guy 1: "Hey, are you goin to tha spoorts baa?

Guy 2: "Fuck that, I'm not goin to tha spoorts baa, I'm goin to Som-mah-vill."


I love Boston.

[Fumesucker]

20. I am the God of Hellfire

[HiPointDem]

23. stupid post

[Earth_First]

26. Yippie kay yay mothah-fuckah!

::enters thread::

::runs around thread waving arms wildly while blasting airhorn::

WHERE'S THE MASHED POTATOES, ASSHOLES!?!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

124. Get with the program

The mashed potatoes aren't dropped onto the crowd until after we all complete our Ralph Nader fecal carvings. For what it's worth, the air horn blasts were right on cue.

[Brigid]

28. I have seen some strange threads around DU in my time . . .

But this has to take the cake. Do I even want to know what this is all.about?

[woo me with science]

29. You know what this reminds me of?

Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 01:47 AM - Edit history (2)

It reminds me of the smearing and targeting by our own government of those who engage in their right to protest as "potential terrorists."

This is about as low and shameless as propaganda can get: insinuating that anyone who voices opposition to this administration's policies is somehow dangerous, mob-crazed, and guided not by principle but by the urge to destroy. And this tactic is becoming disturbingly common; I was the target of such an insinuation just the other day.

What a vile and despicable post this is. This sort of smear tactic needs to be smacked down immediately, whenever and wherever it is tried.

___________________________________________


FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

DoD Training Manual: Protests are "Low-Level Terrorism"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100227662

Guardian UK: Occupy and the militarisation of policing protest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x637214

Why is FBI Manufacturing Reasons to Arrest Occupy Protesters, Ignoring White Supremacist Violence
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12522821

[Earth_First]

31. I had a very similar response typed out...

I retracted it and, well...you see what I ended up with.

Kudos on the response, +1 I agree 100%

[woo me with science]

62. Actually, your post

is probably closer to what despicable smears like this actually deserve in terms of response.

I always debate whether to even feed threads like this, but in this case the rhetoric is so poisonous and so despicable that I think it's necessary to remind people of where this crap goes, when it is backed up by governments. We are talking about smears so despicable that, in even a slightly different context, they can lead to principled human beings' being murdered or put away for life.

We cannot feed or quietly tolerate this sort of garbage on DU. Propaganda has to be taken seriously. Malignant rhetoric like this, that tries to incriminate speech and protest by equating it with the acts of terrorists and criminal mobs, needs to be smacked down hard by the community every single time it is attempted.

[graham4anything]

35. Bobby wiretapped MLK with the consent of JFK. Shit happens.

and if you are old enough to remember, in the 60s, many times people infiltrated groups that were not part of the group

answer me something-do you want some terrorist infiltrating OWS(as they are anonymous, which is a stupid, stupid concept and will lead to nothing anyhow) but do you want someone infiltrating them?

As some people are so quick to quote Les Miz (wrongly) as nowaday, well, the bad guy Crowe played said he was one of the resistance and told them the exact wrong thing.

becareful of what you are thinking you are against.

I welcome them stopping an infiltraitor like the anarchists at the g8 summits do

one would think a true fan of OWS would too.

and they need to run for office in every district, not be anonymous if they want to be adults
playing political adult games. and politics is a sport. One wants to be long term on the winning team. Which may take a decade til its accomplished

if people don't fracture it like 1968,1980,2000

[Earth_First]

38. "Politics is a sport..."

Exactly.

...and exactly why we are sick of playing it your way.

Time for a different system.

You mention that this "game" has been played out since 1968.

Well, some of us have had enough.

If it takes some revolutionary thought to make that happen...so be it.

You are more than welcome maintain the status quo, we'll forge ahead and do the heavy lifting and extend a helping hand to pull you up when we have accomplished our deeds for all of humanity; not just for "republicans" or "democrats"

[graham4anything]

41. quite the other way. How did that nader thingy do you in 2000?

and hating Mike Bloomberg, perhaps the single #1 most GREEN candidate there is, far to the left of Nader and Al Gore combined.

Nader, yeah, he said he was green, and got Bush elected over Gore. Amazingly naive of him except he had ulterior motives. As he founded the inane both are the same crap.

NO both are not.

But I thank Nader for one thing-singlehandedly ensuring there will NEVER be a 3rd party candidate again on the left that people take seriously. Thanks for that one thing, Ralph.

[Earth_First]

44. There is no way you are a Democrat. None.

I've seen some wholesale Nader hating in my days, however your disdain of third-party politics and the option to create a more democratically-elected system of governace is quite fucking bizzare...

Your hatred of even the DISCUSSION of the possibility of another way of politics is of no Democrat I've ever met.

Speaking of infiltrators, you worry me.

[graham4anything]

47. I love President Obama. So does the vast majority of democrats

you have your opinion, I have mine.
I don't let mobs influence my opinions.

Mobs are what got Edwards picked as vp, the singular worst choice ever, even worse than the vapid picks of Palin and Ryan.
And Quayle had a unspoken reason for being picked. He was picked for what 41 knew W did not have, to alleviate it as an issue.
But Edwards, a mob got him picked, and well, I was not part of that mob either.

and yes, I blame Nader for 2000. 100%. What happened in Nov(NADER) came before what happened in December(scotus's 5)
remember the court first ruled 7 to 2 that it had to go back to florida. Had that been it, Gore would have been seated, the 2nd ruling 5 to 4 the same night was the one that said time ran out.

[truebluegreen]

113. What's with the "love" thing?

You "love" President Obama? Whatever floats your boat, dude but that's no way to run a democracy, "loving" the Great Leader.

Tends to make you want to follow wherever he leads, instead of maybe thinking for yourself. Just a little heads up.

BTW, can you dispense with the stream-of-conciousness, over-the-top, content-deficient posts? Running around waving your arms and yelling ooga-booga? It's pretty tiresome. Thanks.

[woo me with science]

42. That post was incoherent, or slippery.

Your original post attempted to spread fear and loathing of "the mobs" who would burn everything down. You insinuated that certain DUers fit that category: those who make "anti-posts."*

Yet now you shift the topic to OWS and try to explain that the government should target OWS because of the possibility of "an infiltrator."

So who, now, are the "mobs" and members of dangerous "mobs" to whom this OP was directed?


Shame on you for this thread.

___________________________________________

*http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2094643

How interesting the term, "anti-posts," is, too. Now that people have finally made clear that they are sick and tired of any post that criticizes administration policy being smeared as "anti-Obama," we get a new, vaguer label for such legitimate criticism, with even more sinister implication attached to it.

Heaven forbid anyone should ever make an "anti-post."

[graham4anything]

43. Twilight Zone- The Monsters are Due on Maple street -go and you tube it.

the original version, not the remake

[BlueCaliDem]

56. Didn't the Occupy people shout from the rooftops that they're NOT Democrats

and NOT Republicans, and they refuse to be put into any political category . . . or something like that. All your links are regarding Occupy - but at least now I know where you're coming from.

This IS the Democratic Underground. Um . . . or is it the Occupy Underground?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

60. +1 n/t

[graham4anything]

30. it's the same people in the threads, but then a mob forms from the same

are they getting their instant gratification they seem to want playing that game?

it's like the pros like Rush and a pro he is
He knows, if he stops being angry, he has no job
gets paid to do it
and could care less about the issues itself long as he has his job
I would not be surprised if Rush is a liberal.
(not hannity, as he is what he is), But Rush knows where his bread is buttered.

whereas Rachel and Ed lost me. If I wanted to listen to Rush's views of the first debate, I would listen to him. I didn't need Rachel and Ed to tell me Rush's views. They lost me forever.
As did CBS when they ditched Dan Rather

as did Tim Russert when he sold Kucinich down the river in that debate
and Bernie Shaw lost his creds with me Dukakissing Dukakis

[Earth_First]

33. Wait, we're pro-Kucinich in this thread...?

Jesus, it's so hard to keep up...

[graham4anything]

36. and Bernie and Al and Wellstone before he was Wellstoned

Wellstone was the real deal
alot of good it did him

get what you can
and accept what you can't
and live with the 10% gain

instead of going for all and getting nothing

Kucinich, Franken,Sanders, they all know that.
And they do work to move the bar from the far right of 1980-1992, 2000-2008 to as far over the middle line as possible. But its a long way to move it after it was so far to the right

instant gratification does not achieve longtime but I guess it satisfies the craving like a sugar rush. One that quickly wears off and then what?

[socialist_n_TN]

122. So you're implying that Wellstone WAS killed.....

and you're OK with that? Or at least RESIGNED to political assassination of left wing politicians???? Personally, that kind of thing makes me angry. VERY angry.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

32. .

[Union Scribe]

34. You have convinced me to drop my torch

and in the immortal words of Homer I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[datasuspect]

37. i want coloring books and crayons

and i will ball up into the fetal position whilst drooling and making fart noises.

[msongs]

46. must worship the dear leader or his bullies will get you...what nation was that again? nt

[graham4anything]

48. the mob are the bullies. Me, I am one individual. NOT a mob

and I don't care if nobody joins me as I am not facebook looking for phony friends.

my views evolve.
but i know a mob when I see one.

[BlueCaliDem]

55. That's what Righties call Obama. Dear Leader. eom

[Lady Freedom Returns]

49. Sorry

Till Soldiers stop coming home in box's, the poor get true help, everyone can get top health care, people really treat each other as equals, and people stop killing each other in senseless ways. I'll keep burning.

[graham4anything]

50. Jim Steinman- Don't feel sad, 2 out of 3 ain't bad

President Obama got us out of 2 wars and is not in Iran

Jeb Bush, can he say the same thing in 2016 if the democratics get fractured, being that his brother started both, thanks the stay home, don't vote meme Ralph Nader threw at the world in 2000 keeping millions from voting and taking enough votes out of NH to give Bush 270
(it was not Florida but NH that was the key to 2000)

and more important than overseas, are the guns here. No gun control can work til the last gun is taken off the street

and no, its not movies. The Japanese made the movies everyone steals from, yet they do not have real gun issues.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

51. But...

We still have homeless, people with jobs starving, bad health care, and senseless killings.

[graham4anything]

53. Change takes years, decades. and 10% compounded a few times equals a helleva lotta good

9-11 bankrupted America. For more than a decade. A hole in the ground in NYC, which love it (as I do) or hate it as alot of people do,is the financial center of the USA
Do you think all that happened with Bush, would have with Gore?
Yet Nader said burn the two parties down.
Nader lied to promote himself.
NO they were not the same.

the fight against corporate personhood was done by the current court that Bush picked.
Gore wouldn't have picked those.
Gore wanted to put SS in a lockbox.

WalMart singlehandedly closed millions of mom and pops and made those people eat up their bank accounts, yet they are not a Wall Street 1%. Even if they are #1 on the charts.

Reagan tore down the unions and the repubs/tea demonized ACORN that only was signing up Americans to vote.

Who said life was perfect?

instead of railing against the President, why not have someone challenge who can win all the house seats in 2014
Instead of the Naderites hoping the dems lose in 2014, so they can whine its because they are not 100% perfect

sells alot of seats for the Naders, Paul's and all who laugh all the way to the bank railing against the system. If Nader really cared, he could have run for Senate like Al Franken did.
But it's easier to whine from the outside and secretly hope to make more whining another decade or two

instead of working for more 10% gains that slowly add up compounded on top of each other

Do you think Jeb will get you anything but a negative? (or Rubio or any other repub in 2016)

especially when the Supreme Court is on the verge of changing from 5 to 4, to 7 to 2 or 8 to 1 by 2025.

patience. It's like an advancement in medicine. Yes, people die, but when the cure comes,
all people benefit.
It's also like foundations for medical advancement are now saying-pool the money instead of pitting one cancer against another, and hope that major strides will be seen on all fronts.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

59. Sorry.

I want it now. I will keep fighting till it is done. I will not stop with one or two wins. I will not fly a Mission Accomplish banner till it it is truly accomplished.

I am out to win the whole war, not just a battle.

[Bluenorthwest]

112. Link to a list of casualties in Afghanistan during 2012, the war you claim is over...

Making this list vanish for the sake of some rhetoric is not what I'd call ethical politics. 391 coallition deaths. 300 Americans. And you say we got out of there already?

http://icasualties.org/OEF/ByYear.aspx

[Lady Freedom Returns]

114. Thanks for the link Bluenorthwest. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

54. Again, great post. The usual suspects arrived...

... and tried to knock you off topic, but you resisted nicely.

To the point, I could not agree more. From my observation, liberals do not handle being in power very well. We are great at being the opposition but not being the tip of the spear. We know what we don't like and how to resist it. We know what we want, but we are not good at diplomacy or negotiating.

I suspect that many here would love to see us fall just so we can go back to our righteous indignation at those in power -- as you put it, burn it down.

[graham4anything]

81. Thank you very, very , very much. Your post gave me hope to go on.No Retreat! No Surrender!

It is why President Obama won a landslide victory in 2012.

They threw everything at him, but the TRUE fans don't pay attention to the smears, the rightwing conspiracy, the Naderite or 3rd party sidetracking.

and they waited hours and hours to vote.
And those that could voted early

And in the mainstream media(of which now all is mainstream media, only Al Sharpton stood tall without waivering while one by one the others showed their true colors

prop them up, then ditch them at the one yard line
now that the game was won, now they root for the President to fail like you said above.

They remind me of Lucy.
somewhere the other day I had read that Obama was lucy.
No, Lucy is hated by most, and is only actively around, to show what a great person Charlie Brown is.
Charlie Brown could have kicked the football, or, after one or two times, could have kicked Lucy in the head, ooops. But he took the hits, he rope-a-doped Lucy and the world loves
Charlie Brown. Because the world knows Charlie Brown is a winner.

The Charlie Brown Christmas tree is the prime example.
Charlie Brown saw things that no one else did, in that little tree.
Everyone else wanted a bigger one, but Charlie Brown presevered.
And Charlie Brown brought that tree home and proudly displayed it.

It ended p being the most beautiful tree in the world, and if Charlie Brown had not stood tall,
stood up uto the bullies and the taunts, and the teasing(even his own dog Snoopy laughed and laughed at him), noone would have seen the beauty that was the tree.

Without Charlie Brown, there is NO Peanuts strip.

Without President Obama and the NEXT president being a Democratic candidate, there is
NOTHING. Zero.
100% of nothing will always equal nothing.

Thanks again, and presevere.
When Bruce sang "No retreat NO surrender" he was referring or could have been referring to President Obama getting 10% and getting another 10% and another 10%, etc.
He was singing positive.

He was not burning it all down like most in the media and the comments online under an article are trying to do, which is a negative.

A negative of something is always a negative.

NO retreat NO surrender.

(btw, I had this going full blast election day 2004. The entire voting area heard me drive up.
Didn't happen in 2000, didn't happen 2004.
But the revolution happened and was reaffirmed in 2008 and 2012.

and I 100% hope for a continuation of the Obama years in 2016 and 2020 and beyond

add up compounded 10% and soon it will equal 100% of what we had in 2008 prior to the Jan. 2009 inauguration.

[RainDog]

123. this mutual masturbation is strange to see

however, it does help to clarify things for those of us who are merely rubbing necking in the thread and aren't part of one faction or another on DU.

Even people who strongly support Obama can disagree with a continuation of FISA - EVEN IF Congress rubber stamped it.

If someone has an ethical position, you can't argue that away by calling them a mob or claiming they want Democrats to lose, etc. etc.

This may not matter to you if all you want to do is fight - but if you really want to address issues for many people on the left and in the middle, you don't succeed by resorting to jingoistic "My President, Right or Wrong" statements.

This is the sentiment expressed by authoritarians.

Authoritarians will never convince someone who is anti-authoritarian to abandon an ethical position because an authoritarian tells him or her to do so.

If you have a "beautiful vision" - you don't convince others of its value by posting near incoherent rants about straw men.

[ornotna]

57. May I mambo dogface to the banana patch?

[Rex]

58. Not buying it.

.

[Initech]

74. I like what Bill Maher said on his recent HBO special:

"You can't change the world in a day but you can at least get the smell of stupid out of the room."

[Buzz Clik]

104. Exactly! And the sudden DU-wide decision that some Dem icons are no longer "liberals"...

... is a stupid as it gets.

[img][/img]

But don't tell that to the sheep.

[white_wolf]

76. Anyone who calls 08 a revolution is either lying or ignorant.

A revolution would imply that the old economic structure was destroyed and replaced with a new one. 08 was nothing but a show for the masses. Romney or Obama it didn't matter who won and has rarely ever mattered who won elections. The wealthy will continue running this country whether their frontmen have a D or R beside their name.

[graham4anything]

77. Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

Keep repeating V for vengence was JUST a movie with the Star Wars Swan queen & Hugo Weaving

no matter how cute each of them were

it was just a movie
it was just a movie
it was just a movie

[white_wolf]

80. Wow that made no sense at all.

Seriously next time you post please try and make it coherent.

[TheKentuckian]

86. If you had that little to say and all of that small content was nonsense, could you be coherent?

Come on, Hillary45 beats all, Bloomberg is great, damn lefties!, damn lefties should love Bloomberg more, Nader...grumble...BAD!, never mind them foreign wars, Bush43 bad!, never mind them economics, nothing wrong with the Patriot Act and such that is what governments do and expand it for gun control, take what you get, 68, 80, 2000, Go Hillary45!

[graham4anything]

88. Ashley Judd should wait and challenge Rand Paul. Not Mitch McConnell.

Rand Paul is more important long term to the health of this country.
Mitch McConnell is just Mitch McConnell.
Dick Tracy beat his look alike time and again in the comic and Warren Beatty movie.

Isn't Dick Tracy cool? I always thought so.
and now we have what he had- wristwatch phones
who would have thought.

Isn't Batman cool?

Isn't Superman cool?

Thank You Barack Obama for being here in our hour of need.

Change.
Change means not doing what people did in the 1960s.
Which led in a direct line to Bush/Reagan/Ford and if done the way they did it in the 60s after the greatness was achieved, it will lead circular symmetry fashion back to Bush again.

as Roy Orbison sang "You got it", and when Roy died, we all thought, it isn't fair.
It just isn't fair.
But we still have Roy's music. And he still sounds like he did the day he was born, and the day he died.

Think about it.

BTW- how far do you think one of my favorite people in the world would have gotten if he
ran for President?
I am talking about Ramón Antonio Gerardo Estévez

repeat after me Jeb Bartlett was just a character in a TV show, our placemat between reality and hell and reality again.
There was a reason West Wing started when it did, and when it ended.
Once Barack Obama was elected, it wasn't needed anymore.
It's job was done.

I would vote for Ramon Antonio Gerardo Estevez for President but people would probably put him down and say he is too damn old.(like they say about Hillary, then say, we want Liz, without taking the time to learn Liz is the same age as Hillary.)

of course some will say this post makes no sense.
But then freedom's is just another word for nothing left to lose and the interpretation of that song goes five different ways

(btw-Leonard Cohen's Hallellujah is a raptuous song about a boy, a girl, and orgasm. Though 8million singers sing different verses and have no idea what the song is about)
But they sure did it best when it was used in West Wing. symmetry and all that.

[Leopolds Ghost]

85. Actually it was a very good comic book

Or should I say, graphic novel

Long before they made it into a movie.

[graham4anything]

89. So was a real hero, Dick Tracy

[img][/img]

[Leopolds Ghost]

127. 80 years later and we still don't have wristwatch communicators

Or a pony version of Dick Tracy, I'm afraid.

So you have beaten me in the game of pestering you on this thread.

I did find Calvin and Hobbes though.

[graham4anything]

139. We have Skype and cellphones- same thing. Remember no one wears watches anymore

the time is on eveyrone's cell phone

[Leopolds Ghost]

141. Screw that

I don't want to have to pull out a cell phone to look at the time.

Plus, they track you on those things

[Comrade Grumpy]

135. Quit taking the brown acid!

[Egalitarian Thug]

96. Or both. Hate to kick this POS, but it was already at the top of the page.

I think that there will be some differences between what the President will do and what Rmoney would have done, just not nearly enough.

[Leopolds Ghost]

84. Burn it to the Ground!!!

Mad Stan: BLOW IT ALL UP!
graham4anything: Keep it down, Stan. We're in a library.
Mad Stan: You think this is a joke? Look around, graham! Society's crumbling! And do you know why?
graham4anything: Too many overdue books?
Mad Stan: Information overload, man! As a society we're drowning in a quagmire of vid-clips, e-mail, and sound bytes! We can't absorb it all! There's only one sane solution: BLOW IT UP!

— Batman Beyond

[graham4anything]

90. Paper, Rock, Scissor, Match, vs. Heart, Brain, Courage, Kansas

I will take President Obama forever
He has heart
He has brain
He has courage
He was in Kansas

Do you get it?

[Leopolds Ghost]

125. It's cool, I get it

I'm just being silly.



Slartibartfast: Earthman, you must know that the Democratic Party you lived in was commissioned, paid for, and run by ponies.

graham: Look, sorry, are we talking about the rainbows and unicorns and what-not? Because I'm talking about the Wizard of Oz.

<< Best movie synopsis ever

Slartibartfast: Yes. Well, I gather that's what they wanted you to think. Although I know little of this "Kansas" of which you speak. These ponies, you see, are not quite as they appear. They are merely the protrusion into our dimension of vastly hyperintelligent pandimensional beings. In fact, you're just an element in their computer program...

[Herlong]

91. Sounds like you've been burning one

nt

http://m.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

93. and I am due beer and travel money and many good experiences.

[RagAss]

138. LOL !!! Is that a random thought !

Classic DU memory.

[laundry_queen]

94. This whole thread is full of

[Demo_Chris]

95. Wait, wat?

[Bluenorthwest]

97. Glossilailia? This thread makes me think of Oasis songs and travel money....

nt

[Webster Green]

103. Lol!

Well played, indeed.

[Cal Carpenter]

98. Revolution?

I want whatever you are smoking.

Edit: On second thought, I don't want it.

[Chan790]

99. To you I say...

quislings deserve the flame.

We didn't win shit in 2008...we were fed a bum bill-of-goods and told we'd won.

[Buzz Clik]

105. So true! I mean, look at the vast nothingness that Obama delivered:

* reduced presence in Iraq
* the end of DADT
* health care (extremely flawed, thank you Congressional Dems)
* overhauled the food safety system
* advanced women's rights in the work place
* stopped defending DOMA in court.
* appointed two pro-choice women to the Supreme Court.
* expanded the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP)
* invested heavily in clean energy.

Yeah, we didn't get shit! Shoulda 'lected McCain.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

110. And we need more.n/t

[Buzz Clik]

111. Yes, we do. Obama is showing some steel. Will Congress grow a spine?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

115. "Will Congress grow a spine?"

I am hoping and praying. But there is very little sings of it.

[Buzz Clik]

116. indeed...

[Odin2005]

119. But we didn't get OUR PONY!

[Leopolds Ghost]

129. You got the pony Gotham needs

[WilliamPitt]

106. When you burn it down

All you've done is burn it down
So don't burn it down

- graham4haiku

[Zorra]

120. Bwaahaahaaa...no, wait...I meant

Baa baa baaa

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

131. Can you see the flames from your back porch?

[Cerridwen]

132. You mean the repubs and the tea...

You mean the repubs and the teabaggers, right?

They're the ones stomping their feet, digging in their heels, and trying to drown the government in the bathtub.

If you can't tell the difference between "the mobs", you might try reading for comprehension and learning to discern between "talking points". If those "talking points" start to look the same, you might need to up your discernment settings.

[Jamastiene]

136. Oh, hell. Where did I put my decoder ring?

I know it is around here somewhere. Now I don't know if the eagle is still supposed to land at noon or what? This script is impossible to read without that dad-blasted decoder ring. Oh, where the hell did that thing go? Oh, the humanity!!!!