Epstein's sex empire was 'KGB honeytrap':

[SamuelTheThird]

(Daily Mail...I know...)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15516349/Epsteins-sex-empire-KGB-honeytrap-Paedophile-financier-Putin-Russian-girls.html

The files include 1,056 documents naming Russian President Vladimir Putin and 9,629 referring to Moscow. Epstein even seems to have secured audiences with Putin after his 2008 conviction for procuring a child for prostitution.

[RockRaven]

1. The "pee" in "pee tape" was a capital "P" for "Pedo"

As in: "Putin has Trump on a pedo rape tape"

[Lulu KC]

42. What a tragic disappointment

We were all so naive.

[roamer65]

2. FSB/GRU.

I have no doubt of it. Also believe Mossad was a destination for Epstein’s kompromat.

[peppertree]

37. +1

"Can you believe it, Vlad? We have proof the Orange Pig rapes 13 year-olds, his party knows we do - and the first ones to circle their wagons around him, are the Bible thumpers!"

"What a country."

[Bread and Circuses]

3. We knew this.. a global CSA criminal syndicate has been operating for years

[Bluetus]

7. Do the math. This was not a sex operation.

Epstein received something around a billion dollars in money transfers from all over the world. There is no arithmetic that gets you there from running a sex operation. Figure that a high-end prostitute might go for $2000 (and these weren't necessarily top class "escorts" -- they were mostly young girls that were abused and vulnerable). At $2000 per service, you would need 500 million services to bring in that kind of money. Moreover, the Trump/Epstein clientele are not people accustomed to paying like this.

The money came from extortion (how much is Bill Gates paying to keep it secret?), money laundering (you have Putin's attention) and payoffs by spy agencies for the Kompromat.

Speaking of the Kompromat, Congress and the media are talking continuously about redacted documents. We know that the FBI impounded lots of the actual Kompromat (videos and pictures) Where are they? I don't expect that to be released publicly, but we know Epstein must have had thousands of sex tapes. That's the core of the operation. Where is that stuff? Emails can be debated about context. Videos will be very clear evidence. Why is nobody even asking about this?

[Bluetus]

9. Gates' divorce gives some insight into the reach of the Trump/Epstein operation

This article pulls on a few of those threads. But it is the proverbial tip of the Iceberg. And then imagine Trump and Epstein shaking down 1000 people this way over the years.

https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/bill-gates-wife-melinda-epstein-files-3qsm9qvwg

[travelingthrulife]

14. It was any kind of blackmail. Money laundering was a big part of it.

But there were also special fantasies like beating and murdering the kids.
Trump has been a mob boss his whole life. He's got dirt on everybody.

[Bluetus]

18. Provingonce again that you don't have to be smart to be a billionaire

You have to be ruthless, self-absorbed and driven.

How crazy is it that all these people walked right into the Trump/Epstein trap?

"Well, it seemed safe enough, you know, private jets to a private island and all the sex a man could ever want. What could possibly be wrong with that? I mean if Trump recommends it, it must be OK."

Bill Gates is the new Bill Cosby.

[harumph]

21. It was both.

It was a sex operation leading to tacit or more overt blackmail which led to (among other unearned favors), lucrative contracts with E's hedge fund. Epstein leveraged his recordings and other documentation any way he could for investment management contracts and look-the-other-way favors. He fashioned himself a player and he was for awhile, until he got "played." He was no doubt funneling info to Putin and other interested parties. He was an immoral but relatively clever sleezebag catering to others like him. Immoral is a term that covers pretty much all the folks in control of our government at present. Some are more clever than others - but none are as clever as they fancy themselves.

[Bluetus]

24. Lots of rich people pay for sex one way or another.

Rich people backing orgies is not a story by itself. That has been going on for thousands of years -- basically since the invention of money, or even earlier.

It is all the other things that are 1000X bigger, that make this such an important story. But the MSM persists in telling the least significant part of the story.

[Celerity]

25. Your maths are way off. By a factor of 1000.

You said:

Epstein received something around a billion dollars in money transfers from all over the world. There is no arithmetic that gets you there from running a sex operation. Figure that a high-end prostitute might go for $2000 (and these weren't necessarily top class "escorts" -- they were mostly young girls that were abused and vulnerable). At $2000 per service, you would need 500 million services to bring in that kind of money.

$2,000 X 500 million equals $1 TRILLION, not $1 billion.

[Bluetus]

29. Correct 500,000 services

And do you think Epstein billed out 500,000 sex transactions? Obviously not the case. That money did not come from pimping. It came from extortion, money laundering, and sales of Kompromat. This is not a sex story. Sex was just the bait.

We need to focus on the 99% of the story, not the salacious 1%

[Celerity]

49. I was only disputing the '500 million services' part, not the rest. nt

[Irish_Dem]

27. Bluetus, a question.

If you add in a drug trade along with the sex operation, how much money are we talking?

Yes but Epstein was not just selling high class callgirls, he was selling children.
Wouldn't that price be higher than for adult hookers?

Yes I agree, money was being laundered, bribes were being paid.
Extortion.

[Bluetus]

30. He wasn't paying those girls $2000 per service

And the people he entrapped were probably not paying ANYTHING for the services. Sex was just the "atmospherics" to open the door to the big money.

And I haven't seen any evidence that any of his harem were what anybody would call "high class escorts". I mean Bill Gates had to get antibiotics.

[Irish_Dem]

35. Interesting.

-I agree, I don't think he was paying the kids anything.
Possible he paid the parents some money.

-I think Epstein provided anything his customers wanted.

-Why would these rich guys keep coming back to the island?
If they were not paying him, didn't they get suspicious?
Wouldn't word travel that Epstein was running an extortion ring?

Of course maybe the rich are used to people doing things for free
to impress them.

[Bluetus]

36. "If they were not paying him, didn't they get suspicious?"

I don't think we can judge these people based on our own life experiences. Nearly 100% of these people were born into privilege and have never known anything but. They have always gotten what they wanted and when they got into trouble somebody always paid somebody off, so they have all literally been above the law their entire lives.

Yes, if somebody invited me to a private island to hang with the most powerful people in the world and have as much booze, sex, and drugs as I wanted and it is all on Trump on Epstein, I would certainly be suspicious. But not these people.

I don't think Gates is a stupid man, but he obviously got very deeply into this. I wonder how far in Gates was before he realized, "Hey wait. There seem to be an awful lot of Russian oligarchs and Russian women here."

Prince Andrew is more understandable because such arrogance is the very definition of royalty. Robert Kraft and Lex Wexner? Probably just horny old guys, already well on the path to dementia.

Most of the rest are probably explainable as ambitious assholes who would jump at any chance to be seen in a powerful crowd.

[Irish_Dem]

38. Yes I agree.

I thought of Prince Andrew too.
He was used to people paying his way for everything.
He never paid the tab for anything.

People like Wexner are the same.
Has his name splashed all over Columbus.
People used to honor him all the time, he was special.

Probably the same with the other rich guys.
They didn't get rich by spending their own money.
Used to people making over them.
Or hoping to get in their good graces.

I think Epstein had to get the goods on these johns fairly quickly.
Right from the start.
So by the time they wised up, it was already too late.

These rich johns were not just after sex.
They could get that anywhere, anytime.
Adult sex was easy for them to obtain.
They didn't need to go to an island for that.
They could probably get child sex as well.

Epstein was offering a chance to do more?
Beating up or killing the kids.
And other forms of torture.
This also gives him more leverage.

Most of the MAGA cult does not care if Trump rapes women or children.
Murder, torture them might be a bridge too far.
Maybe not.

[Bluetus]

41. It is a dark business, but I think you nailed it.

[Irish_Dem]

39. What about the drug trade.

Maybe I missed your answer.
If we factor in drug trade money, what kind of money are we talking about?

I think Epstein supplied some drugs of course.
I don't know if it was a money making part of the business or not.

[Bluetus]

40. I doubt it was much

I think Epstein was smarter than that. His superpower was bankstering. It is a lot easier to get away with huge crimes in an industry where the product (money) is imaginary and more can be created at will by the central banks any time they feel the need.

You get hooked up with the international drug cartels and you could find yourself hanging from a rope in a dismal cell late at night.

D'oh !

[Irish_Dem]

43. I think you are right.

Putin is said to have become quite rich via a sex and drug trade.
But he has an entire army and mercenary group to fight the cartels if need be.
Once you are deep into those people, life gets complicated.

Of course Epstein provided booze and drugs, but the main attraction
were the victims.

Ha, you and I both know Epstein was not killed by a drug cartel.
They usually leave a calling card to warn others.
Also it was a sloppy job.
Cartel could do much better.

[Bluetus]

45. No need for drug gangs to kill Epstein. He was already in jail

and no threat to their drug business.

The people with the big motives to kill Epstein were the ones he and Trump had blackmailed over the years, and anybody Epstein could harm by cooperating with the Feds. In other words, fellow money launderers.

Problem is, that narrows it down to about 500 people with huge motives for Epstein to be dead. The key is that 2 weeks before his death, his lawyers started the process of proffering to get a plea deal for Epstein. Find out who he was going to throw under the bus and probably found the person responsible for his murder.

[ColoringFool]

44. It Was Both.

[walkingman]

4. I still think Trump is a Russian agent - sounds conspiracy theory but it seems obvious.

[roamer65]

5. 2014 US Treasury FinCEN report of TajMahal casino laundering Russian mob money.

It’s hard to know where the borderline is between the Russian government and Russian mafia.

Dump is very much owned by both.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long

[ret5hd]

6. i still think melania is his "handler"

[Bluetus]

16. I doubt it. She is not that smart.

But it is clear that Epstein was the person who made that connection. Was it love at first sight for Trump or did Melania have a different job to do. The way that Trump discards people, one expects he would have dumped her long ago, yet she is still there.

So maybe she really is on an extended assignment to watch and report. I guess you could call that something like being a "handler". Clearly she is not calling the shots. Nor was Epstein. He has been dead almost a decade and a Melania is still on the job.

[BattleRow]

48. The Queen of Diamonds...re Manchurian Candidate

[SergeStorms]

23. I think she was the "honey"......

that Putin gave Trump in order to squeeze every bit of information out of him. Trump was an unbelievably easy asset to obtain for Putin. Money and women: Donald Trump's raison-d'etre. Putin could steer Trump like a creepy 7 yr. old with a remote control drone trying to peep on the hot teenage girl next door.

And boy! did that pay dividends!!! Putin is inside the White House now, and it all started with a Slovenian sex worker.......

[Johonny]

8. Putin has everything on him

As does several other countries. The Steel dossier shows Trump had a lot of information out there. How much more too secret to reveal . . . We won't know. We may never know.

[Mysterian]

10. Conspiracy theory?

Every fucking thing he does damages the USA and helps Russia.

[bluestarone]

12. Yes that needs to be a daily news item.

Loudly that he's a RUSSIAN in the white house!

[BradBo]

11. Pure Honeytrap.

[leftstreet]

13. Are there a lot of Russian ties in the Epstein files?

Not sure Russia is the country Epstein's blackmail entrapment scheme benefited the most

[travelingthrulife]

15. They went after all the autocrats and oligarchs too. Everybody smooching Trump's ass

right now is likely in there in some way. There is no logical reason to revere this monster otherwise.

[quakerboy]

28. It does seem odd

The Russian agent theory doesn't seem to cover the full spectrum of what we have seen.

What influence did the Russians have to quash investigations in the USA in 2005-07. I dont at all care for shrub, but I dont recall even whispers that he might be a Russian agent, and his administration was running things at the time.

Also.. It all stayed basically quashed under Obama and Biden. Neither of whom is beholden to Russia. And Biden and his administration had every reason to expose it all given the strong Trump-Epstein ties. Russia didn't have the pull with the Biden admin to keep it all locked away.

I think a more realistic look at the situation makes it likely that there are layers, a multi-country intelligence and influence effort. Russia is the easiest and likely the most obvious perpetrator, but I'd bet other countries had a hand in this project as well.

[SamuelTheThird]

31. It's russia and israel

Just like maxwell's father, who apparently worked with the kgb, mossad...and MI6

[yardwork]

33. I see things differently.

Even before the Supreme Court handed the election to W, there was a well-funded smear campaign against Al Gore that resulted in the election being close enough to steal. Much of that astro-turfing was coordinated by the NRA, which has been funded by the Kremlin for at least that long.

In 2004 the smear campaign against Kerry was next level. Kerry had chaired a Senate committee investigating crimes in Eastern Europe. Valerie Plame was outed - she was investigating nuclear threats in Eastern Europe.

After the USSR collapsed what took its place was chaos and greed led by very evil people.

Why didn't Obama and Biden blow the lid off the election interference? I don't know but I suspect that they thought it was better for national security to keep things quiet and "look forward" - a mistake the Democratic Party had made too often.

I doubt that Obama or Biden knew much about Epstein or what he was doing. I think they underestimated what we've been up against. So did Gore and Kerry. So did many Republicans, imo.

[surrealAmerican]

46. It may not be.

It seems he would work for whoever was willing to pay him - a free agent blackmailer.

[czarjak]

17. Russia was never not the enemy of the people!

[yardwork]

19. That's been obvious for years.

[Botany]

20. Considering the email exchanges between Maxwell and Melania and that Melania might have been

…. getting her girls which she installed into Epstein’s stable of “young women” for his child sex
trafficking operation and were some of those girls provided by Putin? And did Putin use those
young girls’ sexual services to get Kompromat on various rich men? And did Epstein/Musk also
provide young boys and men to people like Les Wexner and Lindsey Graham so they could then be
black mailed and extorted? Remember how fast Lindsey Graham became a big time Trump
supporter after his Columbus Day 2017 golf outing with Trump?

[Rebl2]

22. Was Epstein

a Russian agent like DT?

[malthaussen]

26. It's the Daily Mail. If "you know," why are you posting it? n/t

[SamuelTheThird]

32. Because in the past couple of years they sometimes have good articles

[yardwork]

34. It's ok in GD, as a starting point for discussion.

[BattleRow]

47. And how was Epstein chosen to be the conduit for these machinations

Out of so many,so few are chosen..but by what parameters?