Slogans: Abolish ICE vs. ICE Accountability or something like that...can we discuss?

[NoSheep]

I have read that "Defund the Police" alienated black-and-white-thinking fence sitters. Seems a lot of folks that we need to get votes from were unable to consider the nuances of what that might mean.
will "Abolish ICE" do the same?

I want to abolish ICE, dismantle ICE, arrest ICE and prosecute ICE and imprison ICE.
Anything progressives say is so over exaggerated by the right and gets spun to mean: "they're going to shoot my babies up with dope and make them have a sex change and let "illegals" take our jobs"

This is such a serious issue because we KNOW they are going to try to steal every vote they can. The slogan must be something they can't spin. Hold ICE Accountable is easier to defend on the "news". I think we can ABOLISH it when we take our government back.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. If you want to abolish ICE, why would you say anything else? There are enough people out there trying to make peace

with or reform or "dial back" concentration camps and violence squads.

[NoSheep]

6. My original post explains why

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. "Anything progressives say is so over exaggerated by the right and gets spun to mean: "they're going to shoot my babies

babies up with dope and make them have a sex change and let "illegals" take our jobs"

If this is true -- ANYTHING you say will be exaggerated -- then why not say what you actually mean instead of trying to avoid what will happen anyway?

[gab13by13]

2. I like Prosecute ICE

[Nanjeanne]

3. Abolish Ice works for me.

[newdeal2]

4. IL Senate candidate is running ads saying Abolish Trump's ICE

That leaves a lot of wiggle room if that’s what you’re after.

To your point, many voters say they want a strong border and all violent / criminal immigrants deported. If the new slogan doesn’t address that, it’s not going to do Dems any favors.

[leftstreet]

5. Can't alienate voters who approve of death squads

apparently

[NoSheep]

7. You have a good point there

[Wanderlust988]

13. But you can alienate people who want to get rid of felonious undocumented immigrants, and I support that too.

[leftstreet]

15. Are there many?

We've let the GOP whip racist mania over this for decades

How many felonious undocumented immigrants are currently roaming the US? How did they get in? Where are they living? What are the failures of law enforcement further up the chain from the point of a gun blowing away a white male nurse in Minneapolis?

Border law enforcement enjoy massive, MASSIVE piles of money

And yet...

[Wanderlust988]

17. What's many? If you have a rapist in your city that shouldn't be in the country, that is one too many.

So if we a few hundred felonious undocumented immigrants, that's not enough? We need to have 50,000 or more to do something? What is the magic number?

So if they drive a car with a DUI and keeps getting DUI's, but eventually kills someone...that's ok cause it's just a single person? We just accept it and move on.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. This "what if" always makes me laugh because for it to be relevant, this society would have to actually give a shit

about rapists in communities.

[leftstreet]

28. Most people would call the cops

In their own city, neighborhood, etc

The US does not lack for law enforcement

[JCMach1]

9. There is no fixing it... Abolish

Might have to be entire DHS at this point.

[pecosbob]

10. FUCK ICE works for me.

The Great Big Beautiful FUCK ICE Bill.

[LuvLoogie]

27. Aye

[mjvpi]

30. I'm with you. No wiggle room.

We need ICE to stop dead in its tracks. If there are nuanced negotiations , they can start from that point.

[NoSheep]

33. I feel you Pecosbob

[Prairie Gates]

11. Abolish ICE

[Wanderlust988]

12. The OP brings up a serious point. Our side is horrible at messaging. Abolish is just not a good term

I think we should think bigger. Not reforming ICE, but reforming DHS as a whole or a wholesale reorganization of government law enforcement agencies. I think that's more politically palatable than just saying abolish ICE.

[Prairie Gates]

14. Part of being good at messaging

is sticking with the goddamn message instead of "rethinking" it and "rebranding" and namby-pambying every two months.

[Wanderlust988]

16. We stuck with Defunding the Police and it killed us and got Republicans elected

it's stupid. Abolish ICE is noble, but some person will have to be in charge of immigration laws.

[Prairie Gates]

18. That's what you say

I say we didn't go hard enough and let's not fucking repeat that mistake.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. We Can Still Have ICE But Not Like That

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. More Bodycams To Record Violent Enforcement Of Imaginary Lines

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. Include Vegetarian Options In Detention Centers That Have Modern Conveniences 😤

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Please Stop Making Me Aware of The Violence Our Enforcement Agencies Perform

[Dawson Leery]

23. I prefer "Abolish ICE Death Squads, Jail ICE, ICE Their Pensions"

[NoSheep]

34. I like Jail ICE

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. ICE Accountability Through A Three-Person Panel Appointed by a Republican For Lifetime Employment

[Prairie Gates]

26. Yup: we lose because we mistake weak positions for rhetorical savviness

The country is begging Dems to go hard, and we're back to this consultant-tested Clintonite nonsense, even as ordinary people put up barricades in the streets of Minneapolis. And it's not just the political insiders, but half the damn party activists, as seen here. Unbelievable.

[LuvLoogie]

29. How about Get Rid of Loser ICE

RID LICE!

[maxrandb]

31. Don't overthink it

ICEholes
ICEstapo
ICEnapper
ICEraper
ICEcrotum (like "I scrotum)"
Vanilla ICE-is

These all work

[Ms. Toad]

32. Defund the police didn't work because even most of the supporters didn't really mean it.

So we had to spend a lot of time and energy explaining we didn't really mean take all the funding away from the police. And then since some people really did mean take all the money away - and others meant something different completely different - there wasn't one unified message.

This is completely different. Abolish ICE means exactly what it says. As far as I'm concerned, unlike the police, ICE serves no positive purpose. If there are tasks for which it is needed, there are obviously overlapping agencies (like CBP) which can pick up the shack.