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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow Elon won the last Election for Trump
https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/she-won-they-didnt-just-change-theA bit complicated to explain, but access to the voting machines was gained through the battery back ups
From the article ---
Musk activated 265 brand new low Earth orbit (LEO) V2 Mini satellites, each equipped with Direct-to-Cell (DTC) technology capable of processing, routing, and manipulating real-time data, including voting data, through his satellite network.
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OLDMDDEM
(3,188 posts)government contracts. He should be prosecuted for this. Of course that will never happen under this administration. A new administration could prosecute though.
yellow dahlia
(5,935 posts)Look at all the government contracts.
And he got to destroy USAID.
And he got to steal our data.
The destruction and the corruption were the motives.
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)Thiswillhold are grifters who traffic in conspiracy theories. They have never presented 1 piece of actual true evidence to support their claims. It should be against the rules to post material from thiswillhold or Election Truth Alliance. It's all garbage. The same people who are so sure the 2024 election was stolen laugh at MAGAs saying the same thing about 2020. The evidence supporting either claim is the same - there is none.
Hopefully, someday these people will get past their denial and accept that just because the election didn't turn out the way they expected or wanted it to doesn't mean it was stolen.
PuraVidaDreamin
(4,619 posts)But lately many conspiracy theories have morphed into conspiracy realities.
returnee
(928 posts)You're speaking pure both-sides-ism. TSF’s sweep of the swing states, escaping the margin for automatic recounts, was so improbable the Harris/Walz should have called for recounts. I suspect the only reason they didn’t is because TSF set a trap by complaining so much about 2020 that anyone else who didn’t believe the results after that would be called a conspiracy theorist. As was said upstream, to paraphrase, there are actual conspiracies in this world.
Now, I don’t know this website, and maybe they’re full of shit, and I’m no expert, but I’ve been noticing anomalies in elections for years, some in democratic primaries. Also know, American history is replete with rigged elections.
h2ebits
(1,002 posts)This was documented, probably at least six months ago, but it was online. It was never made public through MSM to my knowledge. I think that every one of us who sees this article should send it to the secretary of state in our state of residence and I certainly plan on doing so.
kimbutgar
(27,257 posts)So I wasn’t that far off in what he did.
yellow dahlia
(5,935 posts)It was obvious something was wrong at the time.
yellow dahlia
(5,935 posts)Thanks for amplifying this reporting and data. This Will Hold is doing great work.
This is an illegitimate administration take over. And the reason is obvious - the destruction is the point.
tritsofme
(19,900 posts)Post a link from a credible source that proves what you say is true?
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)You can follow the link to the evidence that disproved their lie about a precinct in Pennsylvania having 430+% turnout.
Botany
(77,352 posts)You can just do a simple search and see that Eaton had bought Tripp Lite, you can see that Musk’s
Doge Boys were going through voter d-bases and loading an A.I. program to manipulate the returns,
you can see Peter Thiel’s Palantir using a program that was called Digital Janitor that did not flip or
change votes but hid evidence that it had happened, you can see where Eaton went into business
w/Palantir, you can see where Eaton went into business with Musk’s Star Link and its direct to cell
technology… D. T. C. …. and with Tripp Lite loading Firmware patches on Dominion Voting Systems
and E.S.&S.’s Musk had access to the Central Tabulators and Operating systems of a huge % of
America’s voting data.
Read the next one or two in the series that show both Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton got a big
“Undervote” where people showed up to vote but skipped voting for President. The same thing
happened in Ohio’s last 2 senate races with the democratic candidate getting an undervote there
too.
The numbers make no sense.
https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/how-did-43598-of-voters-cast-ballots
Initech
(108,799 posts)After WaPo and LA Times both were systematically and hostily blocked from endorsing Harris by their billionaire owners after the debates. The only way Trump "won" both of his debates is that he wouldn't shut the fuck up. That was an absolute red flag that something was up.
The billionaire owners of this country knew the outcome before we did. They all must go to prison. 
Botany
(77,352 posts)He masturbated mic stand and then simulated giving a blow job to the microphone in front of
an audience and T.V. cameras.
He disgraced himself @ Arlington National Cemetery and showed disrespect to the men and women
women who are buried there. That alone should have cost @ least a million votes.
He went to Arnold Palmer’s home town and talked about the size of his dick.
And two or three different times he said publicly that he didn’t need anymore votes.
Evolve Dammit
(21,779 posts)bluestarone
(22,199 posts)
Evolve Dammit
(21,779 posts)OGBuzz
(321 posts)Donald Trump on the 2024 campaign trail......"I actually tell our people we don't need your vote, we got so many votes we don't need them, we just don't want to see votes stolen".
He also cheated in 2020 and couldn't believe when he lost to Joe Biden. That's why he is so obsessed with it. In his own corrupt and diseased mind he thinks that the only way he could have lost 2020 is if Biden out-cheated him.
2016 was thanks to a disinformation campaign coming from Russia and Eastern Europe. The internet was flooded with anti-Hillary messaging. And James Comey of course.
Botany
(77,352 posts)but a massive misinformation too. See Hillary’s emails.
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)They are lying about how all the swing states were just over the recount threshold, split ticket voting isn't proof of fraud, we all know why you'd see voting differences between mail/early voting and election day voting patterns (Trump tried this as "proof" he won in 2020).
These guys get disproven every time someone posts their substack.
Dave says
(5,427 posts)There is no smoking gun proof that what is proffered here actually occurred, there also is no proof that it didn’t occur.
There are very strange anomalies in the election data. They remain unexplained.
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)If I said there was evidence martians changed the outcome would you think you had to prove they didn't? If I said Trump won in 2020 would you both sides it?
No. These guys are known liars and deserve to be treated as such.
Dave says
(5,427 posts)There are a few in the White House, no?
All I suggest is keeping an open mind to what is PLAUSIBLE.
(I’m at a car dealership getting a car inspected, otherwise I’d dig up some of the examples of anomalous data.)
✌️
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)Dave says
(5,427 posts)Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)Pausible (Definition):
(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.
"a plausible explanation"
Conspiracy theories regarding voting machines are neither reasonable nor probable.
questionseverything
(11,846 posts)Can you see inside the puter? Of course you can’t and neither can anyone else
Hand counted paper ballots are the only way the average citizen can oversee the counting process… it shouldn’t take an act of god to look at those ballots
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)So why were Trump and the MAGAs claims considered ridiculous but it's perfectly reasonable to claim the 2024 election was stolen? 
questionseverything
(11,846 posts)Was they hand counted the paper ballots in full public view
I believe that should be the standard in presidential elections , otherwise we are just trusting the “last best hacker “ to decide who we want to lead our government
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)https://apnews.com/article/pennsylvania-hand-count-ballots-election-machines-42e72c9aaac3b1552032370ba5e8c8a9
Refusing to acknowledge true things doesn't make them any less true. You can assert that you think you know for certain Biden won in 2020 because it was hand recounted, but that doesn't make it true. We know he won because he got more votes as shown through the initial count. And we do know that hand recounts are more accurate across many studies. Also you didn't see every ballot get reviewed and individually tabulated. You're still taking someone else's word for it.
Skittles
(171,741 posts)not a surprise
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)And I do keep an open mind the the plausible, I just have a much higher standard for plausible than people I know lie to me.
Take their lie that 435% of eligible voters turned out in a Pennsylvania county here:
https://thiswillhold.substack.com/p/how-did-43598-of-voters-cast-ballots
But as Kaleva pointed out that's false:
https://the.democraticunderground.org/100220967788#post23
source:
https://www.norcopa.gov/corecode/uploads/document6/uploaded_pdfs/corecode/GE24%20Precinct%20Level%20Summary%20Results_1290.pdf
When I know that they lie because I can go to the source data and it doesn't match repeatedly, I stop considering what they are claiming.
Dave says
(5,427 posts)Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)It can't be proved that fraud didnt happen, so that is evidence that something must have happened. If someone believes fraud occurred, it is up to them to prove it.
paleotn
(22,230 posts)I was yelling at you this morning on another topic. So stop agreeing with me! Or me agreeing with you. Or something like that. 
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)I don't have to agree 100% with somebody to still respect their opinions.
JT45242
(4,049 posts)As far as I know there has never been a county flip from one election to another of xxx to zero. Mondale was a huge chunk to like 2.
That's the one that I wish they had recounted paper ballots.
The not recounting any paper ballots has bothered me the whole time. Even a 10 percent audit would have felt good to see if percentage was in line.
paleotn
(22,230 posts)You and I also can't disprove that Santa swooped in from the North Pole and changed the votes. Or aliens. Or a bunch of kids in mom's basement.
I agree, there are anomalies. The whole damn election was an anomaly. I still can't figure out how the Dems did a clean sweep of statewide offices in NC, eliminated the Puke's veto proof majority in the legislature, yet Donnie still won the state. Weird. But even if the odds are small, they're not zero.
And seriously manipulating an election nationwide is a task I don't think even tech bros have the muscle to do. All sort of different voting systems and software, some ancient, between states, and even within states. The whole thing would take a ton of people and someone, somewhere is going to talk. They always do. So far, nada.
So...I need more proof before I commit to out and out theft. Don't underestimate the stupidity of voters. With the right propaganda and a weird election to start with, that might have been all it took.
Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)I find it odd that some of the same people who claim there is no proof of Republicans accessing the vote counts to change the totals are not interested in hand counted paper ballot recounts.
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)But sure, if you want to have a recount, feel free if you can raise the money, it's not going to change anything and then the conspiracy theory will move to fake ballots or something.
Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)In 2004 the exit polls showed ES&S machines had a bias against Kerry that was greater than the expected margin of error in 16 states. Other companies' machine counts were on the money compared to the exit polls. According to the exit polls, Kerry won 15 of those states. There were numerous threads here with excellent write ups. So what happened? The exit polls are now "adjusted" to match the official results.
Who needs conspiracy "theories"?
Frankly, I don't see that the voter suppression practiced by Republicans is always enough. Last time they purged millions of Black and inner city voters, took away drop boxes from Democratic districts, had fewer machines in Democratic precincts, and still had to resort to bomb threats to keep Democratic numbers down. I still think that adjusting machine totals is not a bridge too far for Republicans. But I can be persuaded, by hand counted paper ballot recounts.
You might want to read this:
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EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)We know with absolute certainty that hand recounting is less accurate and takes a lot longer.
Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)Oh, wait, no they didn't.
If stastics are the answer, why don't we just poll a few thousand people and declare the winner?
What is the statistical probability that the 2004 vote count would be outside the margin of error from the exit polls in 17 states? What about when 16 of those states favor W over Kerry? What about when 15 of those states were outside of the margin of error, in favor of W, enough to change the winner of that state from Kerry to W? What is the statistical probability of that?
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)I provide evidence that hand counting is clearly less accurate. You responded with hand counting didn't change the results in Georgia or Arizona as if that is evidence that hand counting is more accurate which wasn't tested. Please provide evidence that hand counting is consistently more accurate. I don't think you can.
Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)that hand counts cannot be compared to machine scanner counts if hand counts are not done.
I don't understand how anyone could demand proof but not allow the proof to be obtained. It isn't logical.
As I have said, I will accept proof that the 2024 election results were accurate, if recounts are done.
And this still doesn't take Republican voter suppression into account. If the polls are right, they will have to purge perhaps twenty percent of Democratic voters to win much of anything in 2026. They could try, but my bet is that they have to alter machine counts in some states, and they will.
Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)I read the NPR piece. It showed that scanner counts were from 0.05 to 0.13 % more accurate. But this assumes that the machines were not hacked. This assumes that the machine counts were not altered. I am not willing to make that assumption without proof.
And I don't understand how anyone would think that elections are not important enough to spend whatever it costs to make sure they are right.
tintinvotes
(145 posts)Post a link from a credible source that proves what you say is true?
mopinko
(73,732 posts)Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)the attached story after being so sure that it would prove "something". Also funny how all of us in the reality based community said that this is exactly what would happen.
https://westchester.news12.com/judge-dismisses-rockland-election-results-lawsuit-seeking-recount-of-2024-results
State Supreme Court Judge Rachel Tanguay dismissed a lawsuit filed by SMART Legislation that was seeking a hand recount in 2024 presidential and U.S. Senate election results in Rockland County.
Judge Tanguay's decision stated they "lacked standing" and other legal requirements.
In a statement to News 12, Rockland's Board of Elections says they plan to "continue to administer and certify election results in accordance with all applicable laws and procedures.”
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)The worst part is, the article opens by citing the Rockland County lawsuit saying it had definitely uncovered fraud. That lawsuit was dismissed in November or December (see post #12). For the life of me, I can't fathom why any self repecting person would continue to believe this nonsense.
Dave says
(5,427 posts)That does not address the content of the suit. It just says the people suing for a recount do not have a right to do so.
(I did not read the article so I easily can be off base.)
Bluestocking
(653 posts)If we don’t win the midterms in a landslide then I will believe the conspiracy theories
I don’t buy it, Biden controlled all the three letter Agencies before and for 2.5 months after the election, it’s inconceivable that the most advanced technologies on earth, possessed by these agencies would have not noticed foul play.
questionseverything
(11,846 posts)These Agencies were led by very competent people, their loyalties were to Biden not to Epstein or Trump. For example, the lead US cybersecurity and communications Agency, the NSA, would have picked up any anomalies. And the NSA was not protecting Epstein as you seem to think.
Response to azureblue (Original post)
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Midnight Writer
(25,420 posts)If Elon can control the vote count, why is he still giving millions in campaign donations to Republicans (who are losing their elections)?
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)RetiredParatrooper
(169 posts)Among other things, the people around Biden lied and Trump somehow came across as the more honest candidate. Had Harris been able to run for more than 100 days, it is likely she would have won.
fujiyamasan
(1,703 posts)I hope the party’s leadership doesn’t entertain this crap and rather focuses on learning from the many mistakes that were made.
There are also a lot of brain dead idiots in this country. It’s not really a surprise Trump won.
stillspkg
(191 posts)Projection has been the tool for a long time: Blame an enemy for what you are doing. Many things DT has blamed Democrats for turned out being his own doing. I remember seeing the self-satisfied look on his face regarding the pending election outcome. And, Elon Musk, does have the tools and ability to do things others cannot or possibly detect.
I will not hang my hat on any idea that blames Democrats for the last Presidential Election results. Trying to be one step ahead this kind grifting is a difficult process especially when the tools are owned by the grifter. We can only fail when we get bullied into closing our eyes and ears.
P.S. Who would imagine DT's goons could do a "grab and go" with Fulton County Election data.
Even if they have to return it, they've already gotten away with it.
misanthrope
(9,496 posts)I think chalking it up to the centuries of evidence showing American racism and misogyny is to follow Occam's razor.
oldmanlynn
(821 posts)Or are we still in the same boat today?
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)
wolfie001
(7,692 posts)There's no way those mother-fuckers aren't involved in election shenanigans in both those states. Destroying ballots and reprogramming computers. 
Wiz Imp
(10,024 posts)But that is a completely separate issue from the 2024 Presidential election was rigged by Elon Musk nonsense.
I don't have any problem with someone doubting the complete validity of some election results. But that is not an excuse for latching on to ridiculous conspiracy theories that clearly have no basis in reality. While I have my doubts about some Florida results over the past 20 years, I fully accept those results as I have no hard evidence that they weren't legit.
wolfie001
(7,692 posts)Zero honesty, zero integrity and 100% racism and hate. Just my thoughts
questionseverything
(11,846 posts)Them
mr715
(3,576 posts)Was he complicit? Did Kamala Harris suppress data about her own victory?
It is conspiratorial nonsense. Elon isn't as smart as people want to believe he is. He's lazy, self-interested, and myopic. He's a supervillain with no talents.
Don't ascribe ability to Elon. He couldn't do it, and if he tried, Biden was President and was responsible for our national security.
Give it up.
philly_bob
(2,433 posts)Trump whines constantly about stolen elections, and Dems don't want to sound like that.
Witness the confusion in this thread. The Dem Party should hire some statisticians and publish the results. And be ready for 2020 shenanigans.
Jedi Guy
(3,478 posts)In order to believe that the 2024 election was this blatantly and obviously stolen, one must necessarily believe that the entire Democratic Party, from Joe Biden on down, was too stupid, too cowardly, or too unconcerned to say or do a damn thing about it. One must necessarily believe that Kamala Harris herself was too stupid, too cowardly, or too unconcerned to contest the results of the election.
One must believe that some rando in his home office stumbled across evidence of a vast and sinister conspiracy while Joe Biden, with all the power of the various intelligence agencies at his beck and call, either couldn't find this obvious evidence of foul play or was aware of it and simply decided to do nothing about it. One must believe that Kamala Harris, his Vice President, the person who was cheated out of her rightful win, meekly conceded defeat rather than standing up and fighting for what she knew to be right.
It does not stand up to logical scrutiny. It just doesn't.
I get the impulse to believe that the election was stolen, I really do. Believing that the election was stolen allows us to sidestep the unpleasant reality, which is that a truly depressing number of Americans wanted the orange shitbag back in office.
More important, though, is that falling into the trap of wishful thinking is dangerous in that it encourages us to forego examining the lessons to be learned from the loss.
tritsofme
(19,900 posts)Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)I don't believe that the entire Democratic party has to be involved in, or even tolerant of the stolen elections from the past 26 years.
Republicans own enough media to stifle any voices that want to protect elections. They badger any people in the Democratic party who speak out. They naysay any investigations. They promote the voices of "reasonable" people who claim that hand counted paper ballot recounts will not find any malfeasance. After all, hand counts showed that Biden won Georgia and Arizona in 2020, so we don't need to recount when Trump wins. So what if recounts were paid for in 2016, but not done.
I think Joe Biden could have wanted to save his family from the death threats and the public humiliation. I think Kamala Harris loves her nieces, and who knows how many threats were made against them. But maybe they just listened to consultants and pundits who told them not to sound like Republicans.
It never fails to amaze me how people can put words into my mouth, and then say terrible things about me for thinking that way. It's right up there with thinking that one mistake negates the whole of the arguments on that side of an issue.
We know Republicans have a well funded organization to purge Democratic voters. From Florida in 2000 to Crosscheck, and right up to the present day.
We know that the Brooks Brothers riot stopped a recount in Miami Dade County. We know that Gore made the mistake of asking for a partial recount. We know that butterfly ballots confused people who wanted to vote for Gore. We know the Supreme Court stopped any recounts. We know that the media recount showed that every statewide recount scenario in Florida gave the state to Gore. Too bad....
I'm not going to apologize for the terror I feel when I see my country stolen from the people who live here. Elections are not my only area of interest, unlike some people who argue against recounts. I know that recounts are a necessary part of healthy elections.
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)You're making up scenarios like Harris having her family threatened or consultants and not considering that maybe you're wrong and they aren't all cowards.
Chemical Bill
(3,171 posts)Let's see a hand counted recount of all the paper ballots in the swing states, and we will find out. It seems to me that too many people cannot admit that I could be right. I am ready to admit I am wrong, if proof exists. Why don't people want to see proof?
Proof exists that Republicans make laws to supress the Democratic vote. Why would they stop there, if they could hack the machine count? It makes no sense to think that Republicans would stay within the laws that they warp.
MaeScott
(971 posts)I mean, they fall out of orbit so much there’s concerns about debris. So what if a few more that were used for this purpose just de-orbited?
Covers tracks. We all should figure they cooked the tabulation somewhere somehow
tritsofme
(19,900 posts)Jack Valentino
(5,053 posts)more than an eyelash in the popular vote margin.....
fujiyamasan
(1,703 posts)They both have giant egos. They would be bragging about it.
Laws don’t apply to them anyways. After all, the Supreme Court basically said so.
EdmondDantes_
(1,807 posts)It's a weird conspiracy that isn't internally consistent
Kid Berwyn
(24,432 posts)
1968 - Nixon-Agnew dealt with North Vietnam to sabotage Paris peace talks
1980 - Reagan-Bush dealt with Ayatollah hostage takers
1988 - Bush pardons Weinberger and other Iran-Contra traitors to avoid trial and exposing his own role
2000 - Bush-Cheney count on GOP-leaning Supreme Court to “win” Florida and, thus, US election
2016 - Trump calls on Russia for help to defeat Hillary Clinton
The record is clear: In Presidential election after Presidential election, Republicans get away with treason.
We hear, “It’s just politics.” Then we are told to, “Move on.” And the GOP gets away with it, again. And I do not understand the joy so many have in shouting down anyone who wonders why that is.
Treason has become a regular part of life in today’s USA and The MAGA faithful think it’s normal to be NAZI and the flipping state, such as it is, knows best. Thank Elvis the MAGA delusion has not spread to everyone.