Where are the Genocide Joe protest voters?

[Johnny2X2X]

Come on out. We remember you hammering President Biden and Kamala Harris over Israel's war on Gaza.

Israel is bombing Lebanon, Gaza is completely destroyed and Israel kills people there daily. Even the West Bank is seeing violence. And the guy you helped elect is bombing Iran mercilessly without an exit strategy at all.

Not voting for Kamala doomed Gaza to complete destruction and they aren't even close to done destroying the people there yet. Not voting for Kamala doomed Iran to a fate similar to Gaza. This is what your protest votes wrought. Come out and take a bow.

[Scrivener7]

1. They're not here on DU. They never were.

[Johnny2X2X]

2. Oh yes there were

There absolutely were posters here stoking those flames albeit more subtly.

[Scrivener7]

4. .

[eShirl]

7. they left after their mission was done

[Johnny2X2X]

8. Saw some posting this weekend

The tact was that, "Biden and Harris just refused to stop funding Israel." As if that was within their power.

[obamanut2012]

26. Some are still active posters

[mcar]

11. You are correct - and they weren't subtle, IMO

[krawhitham]

34. +1

[betsuni]

38. Yes there were, long long threads of them. Experts like Malcolm Nance ignored.

[Cirsium]

59. What are you doing?

What are you doing if not "stoking those flames?"

[JustAnotherGen]

66. Agree

A few weren't even Americans - but they liked popping off at the mouth. I think most have quietly tip-toed away.

[Skittles]

97. haha

it's like the "I NEVER VOTED FOR HIM!" excuse

[obamanut2012]

25. Oh yes, they were

Most are still here actively posting.

[JustAnotherGen]

67. I stand corrected

I probably have them blocked. I thought perhaps they just left DU.

[Klarkashton]

53. However there were quite a few cheering on the genocide.

[Cirsium]

57. Amen

This gets old, doesn't it?

[FalloutShelter]

3. 100%

[Bettie]

5. Are you expecting a large number of those voters

here on DU?

You will be disappointed.

[JBTaurus83]

6. Couldn't agree more!

The outrage over human rights seems to have subsided.

[Buzz cook]

31. Are you kidding?

At the end of this month there is going to be what may be the largest nation wide human rights protest in America's history.
Are you planning to attend.

[Arazi]

42. Are you talking about the No Kings rallies?

It’s quite possible they will morph into predominantly human rights rallies (there have always been LGBTQ supporters there) but as of now the No Kings rallies are a melange of anti-ICE, anti-war, pro-democracy, anti-Trump, anti-corruption etc AND pro-human rights.

Not solely human rights.

And from past posts, it appears most DUers attend them.

[JBTaurus83]

77. I do attend rallies

Such as “No Kings” here in Philly. I believe the original poster may have been referring to the “Free Gaza” protests which I’ve heard nothing about since the Orange Terror was reinstated.

[AloeVera]

9. For some reason this popped into my mind:

"In certain quarters the quest for scapegoats had begun. It was important to know whose fault all this was. It was important to know if things were going to get worse. Maybe there were identifiable persons, destabilizing persons, who were somehow responsible for the destabilized world."
- Salman Rushdie

And then I found this:

I could not ask for forgiveness for something I had not done. As scapegoat, I could only bear the fault." — Daphne du Maurier

[erronis]

152. Good quote from Daphne du Maurier. A translation: Damned if I do; damned if I don't.

[mcar]

10. They're still protesting Kamala, believe it or not

[Johnny2X2X]

13. I believe it

It was insane when Biden was President, they were acting like Biden was the President of Israel and then Kamala somehow magically had control over US aid to Israel as if she ran Congress who allocated the money. And I have seen the Iran attack even being blamed on them because, "They continued to fund Israel."

There's no reasoning with some of them and the Right absolutely funded their nonsense during the elections.

[pimpbot]

19. some idiot was still yelling at biden about this the other day

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15598933/joe-biden-gaza-deaths-confrontation.html

How insane do you have to be to start up a conversation with an ex-President about something that wasn't under his control and now is DEFINTELY not something he can do anything about.

[PunkinPi]

16. I was at her book event in Richmond on Feb 2nd and two of those idiots showed up...

and started yelling about Gaza/Palestine, the crowd was having none of it and they were loudly booed and quickly escorted out. I truly believe they are an Op.

[mcar]

23. They always were an op and too many well-meaning people fell for it

Have they ever protested TSF? I asked this same question a few weeks ago here and was told they don't because they could get shot.

It's pure theater and part of an ongoing attempt to depress the Democratic vote.

[Bookreadingliberal53]

30. Nope they know they would get assaulted at a Trump rally nt

[mcar]

125. Sure. So let's go protest someone who a)

is not longer in office and b) actually tried to do something.

[Alliepoo]

65. I know they are

All over the place on BlueSky. I’m sick of them.

[mcar]

69. There are days when BlueSky is unreadable

because of it.

[Alliepoo]

129. Absolutely. I used to find it

More enjoyable. I agree with you!

[erronis]

153. Probably have a few members of the "Brooks Brothers Riot" involved.

[Cha]

111. Mahalo For Reminding Us of That, mcar...

I saw that.... Are they scared to Protest PEDOs that are decimating the Middle East?

[Arazi]

12. *Bitter laugh* It was always mostly an op stoking those protests

In order to harm Biden/Harris in the 2024 election.

Putin’s puppet is performing perfectly. No need to wind up the people atm

[Nixie]

14. Great question! Imagine believing a piece of shit billionaire proven con

man is your choice for peace. A corrupt billionaire real estate developer and his cabal with evil streaks, and that’s a choice for peace?

I remember well the active campaigns against Biden/Kamala, and for absolutely impossible, unrealistic demands. Your phrasing was perfect: “come out and take a bow.”

[betsuni]

15. Hamas as freedom fighters: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Ask Nelson Mandela."

A very complex problem requiring diplomacy and cooperation becomes a simple all-or-nothing black-white moral purity test. Genocide Joe and Killer Kamala -- the slogans had been chosen and signs printed. They're responsible for genocide and war crimes in another country they have no control over and that's that, reality ignored and replaced by assumptions of terrible motivations. Moral purity tests only work to defeat Democrats (the most important thing) so of course no slogans about Trump and no need to stir up anger and disgust for voting purposes.

[PunkinPi]

17. I'd love to know where their funding came from. nt

[yardwork]

21. Their funding came from Russia and China.

[Buzz cook]

29. The same place the anti Trump rallies get funding.

I'm still waiting for my check.

[Johnny2X2X]

18. And no one did more than Joe Biden to try to end the Gaza bombing

I've actually gotten to confront some friends about their Gaza positions in the last year. I said to them, "not voting for Kamala guaranteed the total and complete destruction of Gaza. In fact, BiBi and trump went on TV and explicitly said their plan was to kill or eject 100% of the people living there so they could sell the land off to developers."

It was just deflection in response, "Well, we hold Democrats to a higher standard..."

And there is no real ceasefire, Israel bombs Gaza and kills people there regularly. There's still not enough aid getting in and people are dying from lack of food, lack of clean water and medical care. They turned that entire country to rubble and the damage escalated significantly when Trump came back into power.

[yardwork]

48. The propaganda from Russia is deeply embedded in many progressive groups.

[Johnny2X2X]

51. I still hear complaints about the 2016 Democratic Primaries

There are Bernie supporters who are still convinced by the videos from Nevada.

[yardwork]

54. Same! They're just as disinformed as MAGA.

Same people funded the disinformation.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Biden isn't the president anymore. But in my neck of the woods, a lot of the same people are protesting military actions

against Iran. Anti-war protestors don’t get nearly as much coverage, of course.

[BluenFLA]

22. They're laying quietly

And will go after the next Dem president with whatever new purity test they come up with.

[betsuni]

45. That Democrats are corrupt, rig primaries, bribed and controlled by AIPAC is a constant conspiracy theory.

Just like the constant "corporate Dems" bribed and controlled by billionaires CT.

Dread the next stupid "movement." Blaming Democrats for not stopping war, being complicit, has to start soon and promoting third parties as the only morally pure choice is already happening.

[yardwork]

49. That's happening in my congressional district right now.

[Quiet Em]

24. All the crossings into Gaza are closed, again.

There is very little humanitarian aid or food getting in. Civilians are still getting killed in strikes.

These people were either incredibly naive and ignorant, or they were working on behalf of electing the con artist all along.

[yardwork]

50. They were fooled just as MAGA were fooled.

[Gaugamela]

27. We need to get fucking AIPAC out of Democratic Party politics so our

presidential candidates can distance themselves from genocide with simple moral clarity.

That’s the lesson here.

[Buzz cook]

28. I'm right here.

I believe Biden made the US complicit in genocide. I also believe he tied Harris' hands regarding Gaza and that may have cost her the election.
I never used the phrase genocide Joe and I did vote for Harris. But "clap harder" is not an effective political strategy.

[leftstreet]

33. +1

[Johnny2X2X]

39. How did Biden do that?

He was the lone voice trying to end the war on Gaza. He doesn't control US aid to Israel, Congress does. Joe Biden was the loudest voice trying to get Israel to stop, but in the end, he wasn't the President of Israel.

[Celerity]

70. Biden plans to send $8bn arms shipment to Israel - 4 January 2025

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpvne94v1rdo

The US Department of State has notified Congress of a planned $8bn (£6.4bn) arms sale to Israel, an American official has confirmed to the BBC. The weapons consignment, which needs approval from House and Senate committees, includes missiles, shells and other munitions.

The move comes just over a fortnight before President Joe Biden leaves office.

Washington has rejected calls to suspend military backing for Israel because of the number of civilians killed during the war in Gaza.

In August, the US approved the sale of $20bn in fighter jets and other military equipment to Israel. The latest planned shipment contains air-to-air missiles, Hellfire missiles, artillery shells and bombs, the US official said.

snip

https://www.cfr.org/articles/us-aid-israel-four-charts



snip

Are there any conditions or restrictions attached to the aid?

Transfers of U.S. military equipment to Israel, as to other foreign governments, are subject to relevant U.S. and international law. The president must notify Congress [PDF] before selling foreign powers major weapon systems or services valued above a certain dollar threshold, and lawmakers are allowed a period to review the sale. For transactions with Israel (and other close U.S. allies), the threshold that triggers a fifteen-day congressional review ranges from $25 million to $300 million, depending on the defense articles or services.

Congress can block a sale through a joint resolution, although this has never happened. In special cases, the president can bypass congressional review if they deem that a national security emergency exists. President Biden used this expedited waiver process for both Israel and Ukraine, and President Trump used it for Saudi Arabia in his first term and Israel in his second. For smaller transactions that don’t meet the dollar threshold, no congressional review is required.

The United States cannot provide security assistance to foreign governments or groups that commit gross human rights violations, a red line enshrined in the so-called Leahy Law. Some legal scholars and other critics have alleged that the United States has not applied the Leahy Law with regard to Israel as it has with other Middle Eastern countries.

Any military aid that the United States provides to recipients must only be used according to agreed-upon terms and conditions, and it is incumbent on the U.S. government to monitor the end use of the equipment it provides. For instance, the Ronald Reagan administration banned transfers of cluster munitions to Israel for several years in the 1980s after it determined that Israel had used them on civilian targets during its invasion of Lebanon.

snip

[Jack Valentino]

102. The PRESIDENT has to sign those aid bills, he absolutely DID have a say in it....

and he should have done more to threaten their US aid gravy train over the Gaza genocide!


I've been a huge supporter of President Joe Biden, but he was absolutely WEAK with Israel!


YES, he tried to get them to stop, but only with words. Money speaks louder than words.

[Jack Valentino]

104. And I didn't say that--- DID I ?

I was simply correcting a false claim that the President has no power over aid bills to Israel, which the previous poster was claiming...


And I DID vote for President Biden in my presidential primary,
and for Kamala in the General Election...

so don't try to put words into my mouth that I never ever said!

[Jack Valentino]

108. And I NEVER approved of those words being used about President Biden or VP Harris---

but I absolutely DO approve of those words now being applied
to the Israeli military and the state of Israel ! No apologies.

As far as an 'ally responding to a mass murder of its people',
that argument grew stale after the first 20,000 civilian casualties in Gaza.... !

Sure, President Biden probably could not have prevented it---
but that doesn't mean that we should help PAY to make it happen!

As far as I'm concerned, that was his biggest failure as President!

(and it probably did play a major role in our 2024 loss---
although the worldwide inflation caused by COVID was probably the major cause)


"I did not say that you said these words" but you did a damned good job of
implying rhetorically that I had at some point....

[Buzz cook]

113. Well we did want to end a genocide.

And I have to say it's tone deaf to paint opposition to genocide as people yelling slogans.
The people that opposed to US policy in Gaza were by and large willing to talk. When people in authority did talk to student protestors for example those protest mostly ended.

It would have taken very little for Biden to have defused the protests. He and the Democratic leadership didn't even try.

[Buzz cook]

116. Yes

I am. It is believable.
I oppose genocide.

[Buzz cook]

112. Biden could have slowed or ended aid

Our laws say that when we give arms to a nation that nation must not use them to violate human rights as Israel is doing. In those cases the law says the arms shipments must stop.

The Biden administration stopped the assessment of whether what was happening in Gaza was a genocide. If it was ruled that the genocide in Gaza was indeed a genocide as it was, Biden could have taken that to the UN and started international action.

Israel without US munitions and with international sanctions would have had to agree to a cease fire.

[DiverDave]

68. So, it's President Bidens

Fault that the Vice President lost?
And what powers did Kamala Harris NOT use?
I suspect you need to ask the same people you get your info from.

[Johnny2X2X]

71. Because of his actions 2 months after the elections no less?

Seriously. Biden suspended arms from reaching Israel several times, but in the end had no choice as it's Congress who controls all of our foreign aid spending.

No one did more to try to stop the massacre in Gaza than Joe Biden.

[Buzz cook]

115. It is possible.

The genocide in Gaza was/is repugnant to the majority of Americans including republicans.
Trump lied and promised to end the war immediately. He cast himself as the peace candidate. And it doesn't matter if he was lying.
Because Biden was not seen as doing anything to end the war he fell into the role of the war candidate. It doesn't matter what he was doing in back channels or his calling for a cease fire. He wasn't seen being active for peace, he was seen giving Israel weapons with an open hand.

If Biden had done everything in his power to get a cease fire and done it openly, would it have flipped enough votes for Harris? Maybe.

[stopdiggin]

32. 'peace' (and a healthy U.S.) are apparently NOT the real agenda ...

That and the fact that suckers and fools are never in short supply.

And here is your success story ...
Enjoy the next three years. Chumps!

[Orrex]

35. During the campaign, I was attacked viciously by those types almost daily on FB

And moments after the election was called, they all vanished.

[SocialDemocrat61]

149. You expect them to actually take responsibility

for their actions? They never have.

[Orrex]

150. Fair enough

I'm sure that you're correct; they didn't actually vanish.

But their attack-replies to my posts ceased altogether on election night.

[Johnny2X2X]

41. I was with Biden, who was doing more than anyone to stop the atrocities

When Trump came in, he did zero to stop them and gave Israel complete support to "finish the job."
.
Joe Biden and then Kamala Harris were the only chance Gaza ever had to survive and too many people here still don't see that.

[Johnny2X2X]

79. Or they dreamed up super powers no President has

As if Biden could wave his hand and stop a war another country was waging on a 3rd country. He couldn’t even stop arms to Israel that Congress allocated, although he did manage to delay them several times.

[AloeVera]

81. There are no "Genocide Joe protest voters" here. So no one will be "taking a bow". Glad to clear that up.

It's a shame you are lumping us all together. Is there a point to alienating progressives?

It won't bring back the 7 million Biden voters Harris lost - I don't mean the minority who switched votes, but the 7 MILLION who sat out the election.

Do you really think they stayed home because a few radicals screamed "Genocide Joe" or "Killer Kamala" at events they probably didn't even see? Or they read my posts and a few others' on DU?

Please. These posts do help to let off steam - I understand that - but they're divisive and counterproductive. And if those 7 million voters realize that not only have democrats not learned anything or changed policy but are actively blaming THEM for Trump - do you think they are coming back??

As for what Joe Biden did or didn't do to stop the atrocities - we are not going to see eye to eye on that, no matter how long I make this post or the facts I lay out before you. I imagine if you were to do the same - though I would love to see your facts around what he did to stop them - I would not change my mind either.

[Eko]

91. 100% divisive and counterproductive.

People act like they owe us their votes, they have to be earned.

[Rob H.]

131. Exactly.

Imagine the people saying it's the height of entitlement for someone to withhold a vote from a candidate who, in their opinion, isn't the best choice or has policy positions they find objectionable hiring someone for a real-world job just because they showed up to be interviewed. That would be completely idiotic but Blue MAGA is a thing, so here we are.

[yardwork]

55. So the obvious solution is to elect Trump! /sarcasm

[AloeVera]

75. The obvious solution would have been to listen to the base - opposed to the Gaza policy by 80%

If memory serves.

Do the right thing, perhaps. Everyone knew what was being done in Gaza was just plain wrong. Even those loudly defending it, I would venture.

btw Trump was not elected by those few overall who switched votes because of Gaza. He was elected because 7 million Biden 2020 voters stayed at home - most because of Gaza. It's what demoralizing the base looks like.

And as long as the scapegoating and denial continue, with no reckoning or accountability - no lessons learned and changes made - do you think they are coming back?

[yardwork]

90. Biden and Harris DID do the right thing.

I agreed with their strategy then and in hindsight it's even clearer that they were right.

You didn't agree with their strategy, fine. But don't pretend there was a quick and easy solution. They would have done that if that magical solution was real.

[Eko]

93. in hindsight it's even clearer that they were right?

What hindsight? That we lost? that polling in 2024, 25 and 26 shows the majority of the US were against it?
Oh you mean that dump was worse. Tell me, what would Harris have done that would have helped? As has been said on this thread the President really has no power to effect the aid going to Israel so how exactly would Harris have done better with a house and senate controlled by maga? I mean if you are now going to say she could have done something to make this whole thing better then you are saying that Biden could have. If you are saying that Biden did all he could which effectively did nothing then you are not giving a reason for people who objected to this whole thing morally to vote. Which is it?

[lapucelle]

124. Imagine the degree of entitlement and hubris it would take

for someone who is neither a member of the Democratic Party nor a US voter to presume to define the base of our party as the folks who whine every 4, 16, or 24 years that "you have to earn my vote" or that "the lesser of two evils is still evil".

Democratic presidential candidates Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris are not, and never were, evil, and we all owe an affirmative duty to vote, even if for nothing else than to protect our vulnerable neighbors here and the marginalized, sick, and impoverished abroad.

Those who stay home are the privileged who take advantage of the permission structures created by very real operations designed and promulgated to depress the Democratic vote.

They are not the Democratic base.

[W_HAMILTON]

61. And the death and destruction only got worse, accelerated, and expanded over the past year.

As I said elsewhere, when you refuse to choose between """the lesser of two evils,""" you end up with the greater evil.

They thought they were punishing Biden/Kamala/Democrats, but they didn't realize they were at the same time doing the bidding of Trump/Netanyahu/Israel.

Dumbasses.

[Johnny2X2X]

85. So now Kamala is evil?

You’re in the wrong website for that garbage.

[QueerDuck]

88. Correct. Good call.

[Eko]

94. Obviously she is saying the war was evil.

[W_HAMILTON]

95. Pretty sure the death toll hasn't gone down.

Gaza as we once knew it will never exist again.

The Palestinian people are now doomed to be forever-refugees.

So, yes, what I said is true. And now that same death and destruction is being wrought all over the Middle East right now, with Americans help leading the effort, in a way it most certainly would not have under a Democratic administration.

And """evil""" is a subjective term. There is inevitably going to be someone that thinks any candidate that runs is """evil,""" but fact of the matter is that there is still a choice in an election and if you choose not to stop the person you think is the most evil because you don't want to choose """between the lesser of two evils,""" you are allowing the greater evil to win.

And that is exactly what happened here.

[Eko]

121. And once again she obvously meant per year. Interesting how you can not see that.

[MustLoveBeagles]

37. How's Gaza doing now chumps?

[Eko]

122. Chumps? really?

I take a deep breath and stop myself from saying what you are. Its not easy. The fact that you have a pic for your avatar of a countries leader that has been attacked by a autocratic government and say that,,,,,

[MustLoveBeagles]

128. The Chumps is for the bad actors

Who wanted to sow division within our party.
Not the activates who sincerely want to help the Palestinians. I actually have a great deal of sympathy for the Palestinians. I think BiBi is a monster and quite possibly worse than trump. I didn't mean to upset you. It wasn't my intention.

[Eko]

133. Thanks.

[MustLoveBeagles]

135. You're welcome

Thank you for forgiving me. I'll do better in providing context going forward.

[Eko]

136. Misunderstanding is easy on here sometimes.

I was just as at fault if not more for misunderstanding you and jumping to a conclusion. So I am sorry as well. What mattered is that you stepped up and explained yourself. Thanks for doing that and again, I am sorry for not just asking for clarification and instead got upset. I don't normally do that and that's on me. I'll do better in asking for clarification, although the last time I did it ended up badly. I am usually really good at not letting other peoples actions dictate my actions and emotions. In my job it requires it but we are all human and err. And I definitely made an error.
Thank you again and I am sorry again.
Keep on keeponing.
Eko.

[MustLoveBeagles]

137. It's quite alright 👍

🤗

[Initech]

40. They were a gaslighting campaign and that's it.

Last edited Mon Mar 2, 2026, 03:03 PM - Edit history (2)

All it was meant to do is to sow distrust in the democratic party and gaslight voters. That's all it was. And unfortunately, it worked.

[Torchlight]

52. That is ironic, no?

Peacewave: the people who did it expect the rest of us to magically forget what they did.

[sarisataka]

44. Do you have your answer?

Unless you meant those large rallies and campus protests. Those people seem to be busy and haven't shown up so far

[Wednesdays]

47. They're out watching Fox News

...telling them how good it is under TSF, and how much worse things would have been for them under Kamala Harris.

[gulliver]

56. Don't rattle the cages of the "Genocide Joe" jerks

We have another election coming up.

[W_HAMILTON]

58. When you refuse to choose between """the lesser of two evils,""" you get the greater evil.

[walkingman]

60. That is the past....

It will require at least a temporary united alliance of moderates and progressives to defeat this regime and defend democracy.

[NoMoreRepugs]

64. I really doubt there's a possibility of an alliance with those jackasses.

[walkingman]

82. It doesn't have to go away, but voters, whether they be progressive or moderate Dems as

well as independents or Rethugs have to unite to stop this madness while we still can. All we have to do is look around the globe and understand that once we really lose our democracy getting it back is a long hard struggle.

I also think that a lot of the progressive/moderate divide is based on generational issues. That will take care of itself over time. There are no perfect politicians we simply have to choose the best option offered and the only way we can create change is at the ballot box.

VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!

[JI7]

62. Those people want Republicans in Office. Even now they are tryng to blame democrsts for Trump getting into Iran war

There was one posted yesterday from common dreams.

[Submariner]

63. Yeah, I want to hear another asshole priest

tell us Joe Biden should not be allowed to receive the Catholics Holy Communion because he believes in a women's right to choose.

I see those catholic priests are back on Fox News aligning shit for the right wing. Bishop Bobbie Barron is the latest pedo enabling clergy figure on Fox.

[Cha]

110. Jesus! They're PEDO Pushers!

[BlueTsunami2018]

76. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a candidate to condemn genocide.

Or to even acknowledge that it’s happening at the very least, which Harris still hasn’t done.

During the campaign she cited Iran as our “greatest adversary”, which they’re not and have never been, and would not rule out an attack on them citing her reluctance to engage in hypotheticals.

Tim Walz said the expansion of Israel and its proxies is an absolute necessity for the United States which is extremely troubling.

I don’t think things would be all that much different on the Gaza situation given these conditions. Of course they’d certainly be much less straight evil and there would be a show of attempting to get ceasefire and all that but what’s the difference if the results are the same? Israel was going to destroy Gaza no matter what anyone said about it. There just wouldn’t be this crazy talk of building resorts and all that on the land.

On Iran, it’s much less likely that a Harris administration would have attacked like this. She would have had real advisers and negotiators in her camp instead of this clown show and would have tried to get an Obama style deal put back in place. Bibi wouldn’t have the Epstein files to hold over her head and she couldn’t be easily bribed by the Saudis.

But we also have to remember that America’s imperialist interests take precedent no matter who’s in charge so who knows for sure?

Everyone complains that the left won’t vote for Democrats but they never give the left any reason to. They’re always too busy trying to collect “disaffected” Republicans instead of people who should be their natural allies. And it’s pretty clear why. Democrats are still capitalists, they still somehow believe that this system can be managed though reform and regulation which it very obviously cannot. Not really.

I, being a practical leftist, voted for Harris for damage reduction. I always vote Democratic for that reason. Unfortunately, we have a binary system so they’re the only game in town if you at least want some bones and scraps thrown your way. Of course I recognized what it meant if these open fascists won. But I understand why others who are just sick of this whole “good cop bad cop” one step forward, two steps back shit we’ve been doing for fifty years and losing ground to the owners all the time wouldn’t.

People want real, meaningful change and only the far right ever delivers on that, much to the detriment of everyone.

If they want votes they have to earn them. Simply not being as bad as the other guys doesn’t cut it with everyone. Give the left a reason to vote for you. Even if it’s just one thing at a time. We have to stop letting the moneyed interests, the tiniest minority in the country, decide everything.

[Eko]

98. The ACA was a mixed bag.

It helped prolong my Mom's life when she got cancer. It let my Dad die because he couldn't afford insulin. The state he lived in didn't expand medicare to help him, but it didn't help him did it? Dead is dead. You can make the argument that we had to go with a conservative health care process cause that is all we could get passed, and I agree with you to a certain point. The other point is that is let my Dad die for a medicine that cost pennies a month and let the insurance companies charge way to much for it in order to help some other people. It protected the insurance companies way more than it did my Dad it seems. It took until 2022 to address that, far too late for him. A late cake sometimes doesn't really help does it?

[betsuni]

117. "'What is it about sixty votes these people don't understand?' I groused to my staff.

'Should I tell the thirty million people who can't get covered that they're going to have to wait another ten years because we can't get them a public option?' ... All the the great social welfare advances in American history, including Social Security and Medicare, had started out incomplete and had been built upon gradually, over time. By preemptively spinning what could be a monumental, if imperfect, victory into a bitter defeat, the criticism contributed to a long term demoralization of Democratic voters -- otherwise know as the 'What's the point of voting if nothing ever changes?' syndrome -- making it even harder to for us to win elections and move progressive legislature forward in the future. ... For the rest of my presidency the phrase 'public option' became a useful shorthand ... anytime Democratic interest groups complained about us failing to defy political gravity and securing less than 100 percent of whatever they were asking for."

Barack Obama, "A Promised Land"

Gravity is a fact, not having the votes is a fact. Medicare was incremental, progress is incremental, no one thought the ACA was a finished policy. Zero Republican votes, needed sixty filibuster proof votes giving each senator a veto -- was a miracle anything passed. Again, nobody thought it was perfect. Those who want Democrats to lose make up slanders about corruption, Big Insurance, Big Pharma, like the lies that Big Banks were bailed out with taxpayer money.

For anyone unaware of the history of the Democratic Party's health care goals and the Republican Party's near 100% obstruction to Democrats, please research. This is a place for supporters of Democrats and facts are important.

[Eko]

118. As I said it was a mixed bag.

I specifically said how it helped one of my parents but was unable to help the other. I specifically said that you could make the case that the conservative health care plan was the only one we could reasonably pass and that I agreed with that up to a certain point. I specifically said how it protected the insurance companies more than my Dad, which it obviously did, or would you disagree with that? Those are the facts. If you don't like those facts then that's on you.The facts are important and I support the Democratic party, if you cant handle the truth and some criticism then maybe you shouldn't be on a Democratic discussion board. As a last thing I want to say is shit, my Dad died because he couldn't afford insulin, something that is absolutely horrible and obviously a failure on our health care including the ACA and you didn't even have the grace to say anything about that. You just came on here and just skipped over that to personally attack me and make a political point. Maybe think about that.
Eko.

[Eko]

120. I slept on this and hence thought about it a bit more.

This is the exact thinking that lost us the previous election. All of us including I can understand Le mieux est l’ennemi du bien or if you have no clue of french its "The perfect is the enemy of the good." We never argued against that, at least those that thought as I do. It wasn't that we expected people to be the best we could imagine, That we expected our party to be that but that we expected our party to not dismiss the concerns we had just as you have done. And here you are pushing that. That hey man, ya, your dad died because our health plan didnt cover that but for you to say that was shit is an affront to all that our party did and that you need to suck it up because,,,,,,. No, I dont need to suck it up. The Democratic party failed my Dad. It let him die. It didnt cause it but it didnt stop it. Its one thing to say that our party didnt have the power to change that, its quite another to be a member of that party and just dismiss it in favor of a political argument and insult people that bring it up. The exact same thing was done to people who lost family members in Gaza or at the min were upset at that. We were told that was the way it is and to say anything was to attack the party when we were just upset about people dying. That we needed to shut the fuck up. We are not gong to shut the fuck up. The fact that you cant understand the difference between politics and actual people makes me think of MAGA, those that believe whatever they want regardless of facts. I am sure you are not a member of a cult, one of those that think a people are destined to inherit a land via a religion. So I ask you to rethink all of this and come to a different conclusion.
Keep on keeponing
Eko.

[AloeVera]

83. Thanks for an incredible post.

Agree 100%. You said pretty much everything I've been thinking.

I thought I had dreamed up that clip with Tim Waltz saying Israel MUST expand. I could not believe it was real. But sadly, it was.

I wish people would really THINK about what this meant. And the rest of your comments.

As I said before, Gaza was always going to end up like this. The dye was cast on October 8th with the first carpet-bombing, and only the willingly blind or complicit would not see it. It appears 7 million voters did see it and the outcome of that should have been realized and course changed before it was too late. That it was not and Trump won as a result is NOT on the voters, protesters or the Palestinian advocates or progressives here or anywhere else.

[Celerity]

147. Here is the transcript from the VP debate where Walz said it:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-vp-debate-transcript-walz-vance-2024/

snip

Walz:

But the expansion of Israel and its proxies is an absolute, fundamental necessity for the United States to have the steady leadership there.

[FascismIsDeath]

84. Meanwhile, in the real world, where adult minded people dwell...

Biden was the only thing holding Netanyahu back to the extent that he could be held back. Harris would've been way less friendly to him because she didn't have the history with him that Biden did.

Neither of them would've started a war with Iran without concrete provocation, anyone that doesn't know that to be true is lying to themselves.

If Biden were still in office or if Harris had gotten elected, the situation for Palestine would be about as good as it could be short of the US military invading Israel (which is something no one should expect anyone to do). And we would not be at war with Iran. We wouldn't have our federal government ripped to shreds. We wouldn't have fired all the competent people and replaced them with evil, racist, shit bags like Hegseth. ICE wouldn't be terrorizing entire cities and killing people for funsies.

I don't want to hear this shit about "scraps" and "damage reduction". We went from having a stable, normal, fairly well meaning government to teetering on the edge of complete fascism. That isn't "lesser of 2 evils". Thats going from " we are going to be okay" to "okay we are probably completely FUCKED".

[Eko]

99. Ah well I'm sure Harris being less friendly would have made a huge difference. Less Friendly lol.

[FascismIsDeath]

132. She told his ass off about Palestine and stormed out of the meeting.

This is a well known verified story at this point. Look it up. I was stating it in a dry way. If you don't already know about this, you really shouldn't speak on it.

[Eko]

134. Thats interesting. I tried to look it up and found nothing about that.

Care to show where that happened?

[FascismIsDeath]

138. Actually she didn't storm out, but she did tell him off, to his face.

She wrote about it in her book "107 Days" and then we have her on camera after the meeting.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sjje2d13lg#google_vignette

Harris’s memoir, 107 Days, was released Tuesday in the United States. In it, she writes that Netanyahu brushed aside Biden’s "loyalty to Israel,” and preferred a president willing to agree to "very extreme proposals" he had for Gaza’s future. "He wanted Trump in the seat opposite him,” she said.

Harris recounts a tense July 2024 meeting with Netanyahu, in which she confronted him over his denial of Gaza’s humanitarian crisis. “His hooded gaze and disengaged demeanour made it clear to me that he was running out the clock,” she writes, describing Israel’s military campaign as “unproductive.”

And then the part we actually witnessed right after:

https://www.npr.org/2024/07/25/nx-s1-5048285/harris-gaza-war

Vice President Kamala Harris, in remarks Thursday after meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said that while she held an “unwavering commitment to Israel,” she “will not be silent” about the humanitarian toll in Gaza.

“I've said it many times, but it bears repeating: Israel has a right to defend itself and how it does so matters,” Harris said. But, she said, she discussed with Netanyahu her “serious concern about the scale of human suffering in Gaza, including the death of far too many innocent civilians.”

In her remarks, Harris reiterated the deal proposed by Biden that would ultimately lead to a permanent end to the fighting, the release of all Israeli hostages by Hamas, and a complete Israeli military withdrawal from Gaza. Earlier Thursday, John Kirby, the NSC spokesman, said “gaps … remain” in the negotiations but “we believe that they are of a nature that they can be closed.”

There are other articles talking about how the whole thing pissed Netanyahu off. Regardless, despite misremembering the detail about the storming off, I believe I made my point.

[Eko]

139. She confronted him about his denial of

Gaza’s humanitarian crisis. I guess that could be looked at as “telling him off” but I don’t think most people would think it was telling him off. Here I am confronting you about how you were so very wrong that she stormed out and that it was a well known and verified story, am I telling you off? Do you have any reporters or government officials or campaign people saying “She told him off” or is that just what you think might have happened because you,,, think it? Is it just you saying that “She told him off” cause that’s exactly what it looks like. Feel free to either add some corroborating evidence or to you know, walk that part back also.
Eko

[FascismIsDeath]

144. You aren't confronting me about shit. I already covered that before you said a word about it.

Don't get it twisted. You need to learn what the word "confronting" means.

You can feel free to research more about it on your own. I'm not babysitting you. You aren't actually interested in the truth of the matter, you are playing a game and I will not play it with you. Go play it with yourself.

My point that Harris and Netanyahu did not get along and she was vehemently against what was going on in Gaza 100% stands, whether you like it or not. You are attempting to push the same narrative as the useless "Genocide Joe" people. You will not use me to that end, PERIOD.

This is all that will be said on the matter by me and you're going to have to learn to live with that. I don't entertain bullshit from disingenuous people.

[Eko]

145. No, you just make things up.

Have fun

[Quiet Em]

80. I think it's time to refresh some memories of what Vice President Kamala Harris said about Gaza

This is from March of 2024.

So, before I begin today, I must address the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. (Applause.) What we are seeing every day in Gaza is devastating. We have seen reports of families eating leaves or animal feed, women giving birth to malnourished babies with little or no medical care, and children dying from malnutrition and dehydration.

As I have said many times, too many innocent Palestinians have been killed. And just a few days ago, we saw hungry, desperate people approach aid trucks, simply trying to secure food for their families after weeks of nearly no aid reaching Northern Gaza. And they were met with gunfire and chaos.

Our hearts break for the victims of that horrific tragedy and for all the innocent people in Gaza who are suffering from what is clearly a humanitarian catastrophe. (Applause.)

People in Gaza are starving. The conditions are inhumane. And our common humanity compels us to act.

As President Joe Biden said on Friday, the United States is committed to urgently get more lifesaving assistance to innocent Palestinians in need.

Yesterday, the Department of Defense carried out its first airdrop of humanitarian assistance, and the United States will continue these airdrops. And we will work on a new route by sea to deliver aid.

And the Israeli government must do more to significantly increase the flow of aid. (Applause.) No excuses. They must open new border crossings. They must not impose any unnecessary restrictions on the delivery of aid. They must ensure humanitarian personnel, sites, and convoys are not targeted. And they must work to restore basic services and promote order in Gaza so more food, water, and fuel can reach those in need.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-the-vice-president-commemorating-the-59th-anniversary-bloody-sunday-selma-alabama

[betsuni]

92. Thank you. It's like the last thing the Killer Kamala Krowd would ever think of would be to actually listen to her.

Quoting and explaining what a person actually says and does is somehow offensive and a sneaky plot to deceive because it doesn't conform to ideology.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

106. I am honestly stunned there are "Democrats" who think Democratic candidates

"...scapegoat and deny, with no reckoning or accountability..." WTAF!

The "reckoning" is happening right now, in the Middle East. It's been happening every day since Piggy 2.0. I guess it was worth it to some people, just to stick it to Democrats, under the self righteous delusion of "accountability."

Democrats have to "earn votes," or else. If the problem isn't about funding Israel, or Gaza, it'll be something else. It will always be something else.

[Ms. Toad]

86. Not this crap, again. n/t

[QueerDuck]

89. Plenty of excuse-making, though. The lack of outrage is directly proportional the the casualties.

Apparently. That makes the virtue signaling performances much easier, I guess.

[luv2fly]

119. Kind of like those folks who endlessly self delete their posts

No apologies when they say something stupid, insensitive or outrageous, just another self delete... and then they do it again, and again, and again... it gets old, no?

[Skittles]

96. those fucking hypocrites

[Boo1]

100. A lot of those people who "you won't find here"

are identifying themselves in this this thread.

[Scrivener7]

123. I see people saying they object to the US assisting with the destruction of Gaza. I see people saying

they wished our leaders had stood stronger against a genocide. I don't see anyone saying they didn't vote for Kamala or wouldn't have voted for Joe, or calling either of them names.

Perhaps you have seen those things I don't see from DUers in this thread. If so, please show me.

Otherwise, it seems people in this thread think there is no discussion to be had about our involvement in Gaza. Do you think there is no room for discussion about that? If so, we will have to agree to profoundly disagree.

[Cha]

101. Yeah, Where the Fuck Are they NOW?!

What the Fuck was their AGENDA?

TY!

[D_Master81]

127. Like all useful idiots

Very quiet. They were useful idiots of the right and I never understood them. Even an ounce of research and thinking wouldve told you we’d be here. I knew we’d be here, nothing about what’s going on surprises me in the least. Trump was always a far right Israel supporter and that’s what he’s doing now. Not seeing it was blissful ignorance I guess

[DavidDvorkin]

130. Mission accomplished.

[vanessa_ca]

143. Living rent-free in your head -eom

[OAITW r.2.0]

151. We've always have had people signing on to disrupt political conversations.

Usually around primary/general elections. The RW idiots that bare their ass are quickly dealt with. It's the "holier than thou" pretend leftists that get us twisted. Splintering the majority is what Republicans excel at.

[DBoon]

154. Putin has decided to fund more credible sockpuppets