Gas issue not a problem for my family

[Eddie18]

One of our cars is a 2025 Subaru EV Soltera. No gas, no oil, etc Range of 240 miles.

The other vehicle is a 2025 Jeep Wrangler 4XE plug-in hybrid. We fill it with gas when we hit half a tank as the work commute uses EV power and no gas. We have filled it 3 times in the last year and use gas on occasion to keep fuel fresh.

While gas is not a problem, the gas coming out of the GOP political vehicle is annoying.

[TBF]

1. My husband is very happy with his Tesla right now -

he's got a y model that he bought used and he actually really likes it (this was before Elon went absolutely bonkers). I have an older Hyundai that I'd like to replace with a newer hybrid.

[Melon]

31. I had the same car. Tesla Y. Very good around town.

If I traveled to a different city I stopped taking it. Hotels and long drives plus electric was horrible for me. But around town which was 90% of my life it was great.

[MineralMan]

2. Oh, you're still reliant on petroleum products.

Yes, indeed. How do you suppose the electricity you use to charge your EV is generated?

How about your home's HVAC system?

Do you buy things at stores? How do you suppose they get there?

Do you ever fly somewhere on an airline?

We all depend on petroleum products.

[BannonsLiver]

3. That seems a tad unfair.

Not everyone is cool enough to have a Kia Soul as their primary whip. 😉

[MineralMan]

6. I realize that. I'm a lucky man, to be sure.

[MineralMan]

11. To Bring You Up to Date:

Our original first generation 2013 Soul got replaced in 2019 with a 2020 third generation Soul. In 2021, we replaced my ancient Ford Ranger pickup with a 2021 Chevy Trax AWD. Both cars are paid for and aren't driven more than a couple thousand miles per year. Since I'm now 80 years old, I expect they are the last two cars we will own. The Soul now has 18,000 miles on it and the Trax has 8,000.

The Trax was built in a factory in Seoul, South Korea, just a few miles from the factory where the Soul was built. Both cars are decent little drivers with no defects I can detect. We like them. They do everything they need to do, and get babied by living in a garage.

Like I said, I'm a lucky guy. I have two cars I like to drive around when I need to drive around. Each gets filled with gas about once a month. No charger required.

[Old Crank]

24. We do what we can.

How you fuel a car, gas, diesel. electric or combo all have issues to some degree. But with EV and hybrids you get hit less directly from gas price hikes.
Now delivery people are going to get killed. Farmers who have diesel equipment and have to buy fertilizer aren't going to be in good shape. So food prices are likely to go up. The economy is interconnected.

I haven't had a car in nearly 11 years, this summer. If I need one for travel I just rent. The last one was a Renault Clio wagon, diesel about 60 mpg equiv. We are lucky. I can bike around. I have a grocery store 200 yards away. I can bike all over town weather permitting and pay $60 per month for a transit pass that covers all modes. We will have to see what happens with that if this 'excursion' lasts much longer.

[MineralMan]

26. Using as little energy as possible is a viable way to

extend environmental safety. I don't use much, myself, frankly. I'm old. I don't get out so much any more. Of course, I have a home that uses energy, as do most of us.

[Old Crank]

34. I'm not far behind you

for age. Trying to stay active. Trying to keep myself out of the doctor's clutches.....

But is is hard when one billionare uses 10,000 average person's CO2 amount....

[gab13by13]

4. Yup,

there's a difference between crude oil that is made into gasoline and diesel, and oil which is made into all sorts of things.

I believe the US is oil independent but not crude oil independent. Don't quote me on that.

[Melon]

32. I don't understand that and I've been in the industry

Oil is oil. There are different grades but for the general public it’s oil.
The US is advantaged due to our supply position on oil and also because we crack natural gas for ethylene and (normally not advantaged, propylene). We were getting 5% oil from the gulf.

[stopdiggin]

5. and you might have added that our entire system (economy + .. ) is effected by

petroleum price The WORLD economy (not to mention every U.S. citizen) will be inevitably impacted - and no one is going to skate by unscathed ... Everything from your hair product - to the ramon noodles you're nuking in your microwave ... Factoring in a cost ...

Other hand - not sure if the OP was actually trying to make that kind of point ...

[MineralMan]

7. Yes. What point was I trying to make?

None really. Just pointing out that understanding the real place that petroleum products have in our life is more important than bragging about owning an EV.

[Eddie18]

14. Cost is key

I don't use a landline phone anymore
No cable TV, just streaming
No Comcast but Hulu
No typewriter anymore
Occasional doctor visits via Internet
The EV chargers are low voltage as patience is a virtue
I can turn on lights, alarm, thermostat, humidifier via my phone
I bank on my phone including deposits
I vote by mail like Trump recently did in Florida
I make restaurant reservations on an app
I check weather on my phone
I make travel arrangements on my phone


In other words, you don't manage change ... you lead it

[IbogaProject]

21. Electric cars generate less emissions than petrol ones

And the emissions from electric plants are at least partially away from traffic. And as this goes and rules come in about batteries being servicable we will all drive electric cars. Only vehicles with special uses like traveling across the Yukon or Alaska and other rural areas will need to use gas directly. Electric cars have some much less parts to service, and the Toyota Prius models have proven to be very serviceable. The newer Prius don't have a transmission the gas engine is a generator connected to a muffler, the drive train is all electric.

[MineralMan]

25. Perhaps you're right about EVs becoming the vast majority of vehicles.

It's not, though, right now.

Emissions from power plants are released into the atmosphere. It's not a matter of where they are released. All emissions from combustion are released into the atmosphere.

You're also ignoring the issues caused by battery manufacturing, including the issues with mining the metals used in those batteries.

Is it better to use electricity to power vehicles. Yes, in an overall analysis, it is, or could be. If all electrical generation were done using renewable resources, that would be terrific. Wind and solar are good examples. Nuclear generation, on the other hand, has a huge pollution load at the back end. What to do with radioactive fuel that is no longer able to be used in electrical generation is still an unanswered question.

There are no simple answers, frankly. I use my vehicles only sparsely. I fill my car's 12 gallon tank about once a month. I don't add a lot of pollution to the environment.

[Cirsium]

28. That doesn't make any difference

Emissions from electric plants may be away from traffic, but they are not away from Earth.

[IbogaProject]

37. Electric lead to reduced emissions

And living in NYC i appriciate every hybrid or electric car there is driving by me. Less emissions where people are and more important less emissions. Not 20% less but 25-47% less energy per mile. Petroleum cars have to generate pollution while electric cars can use solar, wind and nuclear. Renewable power instalations are increasing at an accelerating pace even with Taco jaboning a few projects down.
Also don't neglect to count of the energy making the thousands of parts in a gas vehicle vs only a few parts in an electric wheel, less fluids overall too. Main downside is faster tire wear.

[Cirsium]

42. Not necessarily

Using electricity for energy transmission does not automatically mean reduced emissions. Public transportation does. Reduced packaging waste does. Walkable neighborhoods do. Those aren't as sexy, perhaps, as personal electric vehicles are, but they are much more effective. Then we have the waste involved in building all of these personal conveyance vehicles and then tossing them in a junkyard in a few years.

[stopdiggin]

39. Doesn't make a difference? At all? You gonna' stick with that one .. ? - - - - - - - -(nt)-

[Cirsium]

41. Yes

Electric does not automatically mean less emissions.

[stopdiggin]

43. with qualifications .... (instead of absolutes) NOW we're doing a little better .... - - - - - - - - -(nt)-

[Cirsium]

44. I didn't use absolutes

I said:

"That doesn't make any difference. Emissions from electric plants may be away from traffic, but they are not away from Earth."

"Not necessarily. Using electricity for energy transmission does not automatically mean reduced emissions. Public transportation does. Reduced packaging waste does. Walkable neighborhoods do. Those aren't as sexy, perhaps, as personal electric vehicles are, but they are much more effective. Then we have the waste involved in building all of these personal conveyance vehicles and then tossing them in a junkyard in a few years."

"Electric does not automatically mean less emissions."

[stopdiggin]

49. "That doesn't make any difference" NO difference? Sure sounds pretty 'absolute' to me.

And it was made in response to a post that read, "Electric cars generate less emissions than petrol ones."

The take away would almost have to be an assertion that electric vehicles do not have any impact on emissions. That would be an incorrect statement of fact. "Does not automatically mean", lowers the bar a good bit. - and becomes much more tenable.
i.e., an absolute, verses a statement with some room for qualification and discussion.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Cirsium]

50. No

Read past the title.

That was in response to "the emissions from electric plants are at least partially away from traffic."

Clearly, it does not matter where the emissions come from, because it all gets dumped in the same atmosphere. That is a valid point.

[stopdiggin]

51. electric produces LESS emissions than petrol burning vehicles. Plain statement of fact.

The argument that the environmental impact is equivalent .... (regardless of how one tries to package it) Is just flatly wrong.

[Cirsium]

52. But that is not true

You have ignore the source of the power to make that statement. Electricity does not just magically appear from nowhere. Right now it often comes from burning coal.

"Electric produces LESS emissions than petrol burning vehicles." Who is talking in absolutes now?

[stopdiggin]

57. Electric producing LESS emissions IS an absolute

It's just plain fact. And it becomes an overwhelming FACT - when the comparison is made regarding vehicle locomotion.

The fact that you seem to want to argue this point ....
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[IbogaProject]

59. Fossil fuels fall below 50% of US electricity for the first month on record

Fossil fuels fall below 50% of US electricity for the first month on record Record-high solar and wind bring the US to a clean power tipping point 4 Apr 2025

https://ember-energy.org/latest-updates/fossil-fuels-fall-below-50-of-us-electricity-for-the-first-month-on-record/

Your gas car is 100% enissions. Electric get more miles per gallon equilivant to start with and now with solar, wind and storage becoming the major area for electrical capacity investment and actual watts generated your arguements are loosing merit.

You have posted zero data.

This stupid oil war price hike is to push off the financial reckoning now that we have passed peak oil consumption. Once this crisis abates the age of oil will be wrapping up. It will persist a few more decades but the economics will begin to disfavor heavy crude and coal. Even the AI bubble may pop. Google just published and opensourced a way to shrink memory usage in AI 6 fold and speed up models 8 fold. Micron and Nvdia both dropped today.

[stopdiggin]

68. solid post. (I think it might have been intended in response to Cirsium ?) but regardless ... - - - - -(nt)-

[Cirsium]

67. Electricity

Electricity transmits energy. That energy still has to be produced somehow.

Whether the power plant is on board, as is the case with railroad diesel electric locomotives, or remote, as is the case with fully electric railroads, that does not change the fact that the energy has to be generated somewhere by some method.

If the primary source of the energy produces less emissions, then that obviously represents a reduction in emissions. That has nothing to do with driving an electric vehicle. An electric vehicle could be using electricity that was generated from a relatively clean source or a relatively dirty source of energy.

The electricity we use is a secondary energy source because it is produced by converting primary sources of energy such as coal, natural gas, nuclear energy, solar energy, and wind energy into electrical power. Electricity is also referred to as an energy carrier, which means it can be converted to other forms of energy such as mechanical energy or heat. Primary energy sources are renewable or nonrenewable energy, but the electricity we use is neither renewable nor nonrenewable.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/

Q: Where does electricity come from?
A: Electricity is a secondary energy source which means that we get it from the conversion of other sources of energy, like coal, natural gas, oil, nuclear power and other natural sources, which are called primary sources. The energy sources we use to make electricity can be renewable (such as wind or solar) or non-renewable, but electricity itself is neither renewable nor non-renewable.

https://www.energy.gov/oe/electricity-101

[stopdiggin]

69. so now we're going to argue that ALL energy sources are EQUIVALENT

in emissions (and corresponding environmental impact)? That too ... Is simply a blatant misstatement of fact.

And, yes - quite CLEARLY this discussion (from its inception) - and repeatedly in my posts - as been centered around the difference (in emissions) between petrol and electric powered vehicles. Wherein you seem to insist on holding a position that it doesn't make a difference. Quote, "That doesn't make any difference" No - it DOES! Plain and simple. The two are not equivalents, no matter how hard you try to cling to that proposition.

Sir/madam - you really need to find another topic on which dispense your revealed wisdom. You're not doing well on this subject.

[Cirsium]

70. That is not what I am saying

I'm not arguing against electric vehicles. What I'm saying is that they don't automatically mean lower emissions, unless we ignore where and how that electricity is being generated. Electric vehicles are only as clean as the electricity used to power them. Electricity is an energy carrier, not a primary energy source, which is what I cited earlier from the U.S. Energy Information Administration. The emissions question depends on the entire energy chain, not just on the vehicle.

Electric vehicles change how energy reaches the wheels, but they don’t determine how that energy is produced. EVs shift emissions to the power system, they do not necessarily eliminate or even reduce emissions across the entire system. Whether emissions decrease depends on the carbon intensity of the grid.

I wrote: "That doesn't make any difference. Emissions from electric plants may be away from traffic, but they are not away from Earth" specifically in response to this, and only this: "the emissions from electric plants are at least partially away from traffic."

[Felicita]

29. Yes, we all depend on petroleum products galore

but I didn't interpret Eddie18's comments about not needing gasoline for getting around in his EVs as bragging. I felt it as an acknowledgement that he was happy that he took the EV "plunge" and his testimonial could encourage others to do so. While EVs indeed depend on petroleum products used to generate electricity at the power plants, power plants are increasingly using mixed sources for generating electricity such as wind, solar, biomass, and, depending where you live, these other sources can be a significant percentage of the total used. I don't have the most recent percentages from each state on the tip of my tongue, but last I looked it up, CA was over 50% renewables, so EVs there use substantially less petroleum than in other states and than gasoline cars. The Union of Concerned Scientists website has state-by-state numbers if you are interested. I speak as someone who took the EV plunge two years ago. I was hesitant because of fears of not being able to travel or having to install a costly charging station at home, but I use slow charging with a regular outlet in my garage-who knew? Slow charging is purportedly better for the battery life and it's mostly overnight when I'm not using the car. In addition, there is an issue with the conversion of the energy into usable motion that is better for EVs versus internal combustion engines, which further reduces petroleum dependence ( I don't have a ready number for this factor).

[Eddie18]

56. Thnx

It was challenging to get the message across. No bragging, just observing a changing society. If you want to continue to use gas, go for it. See you 5 years from now as I drive by at your gas station and smile

[tinrobot]

53. Perhaps, but EVs don't HAVE to be powered by oil-based electricty.

You can generate electricity all sorts of ways. Sure, some power companies still use oil or natural gas, maybe coal, some get power from hydroelectric dams. And an increasing number are using wind and solar.

If you want, you can also cut the power company out of the equation entirely and put solar panels on your roof.

And even if you do use oil-generated power, the efficiency of an EV means you'll still use way less of it than if you put the same fuel in a gas tank.

[Melon]

63. We don't use oil based electricity in the US. It's very rare. It's not efficient.

We use natural gas because the US is advantaged in gas. Around 40% of production in the US. Oil is less than 1%.

[Melon]

60. Not from oil. Electricity primarily comes from gas

In the US. We don’t use oil for electricity. This is the breakdown of Texas. Number 2 and at times 1 is renewable.

Typical ERCOT Electricity Generation Mix (Approximate Percentages):
Natural Gas: ~40% – 48%
Wind: ~20% – 29%
Solar: ~7% – 16%
Coal and Lignite: ~12% – 16%
Nuclear: ~9% – 10%

[IbogaProject]

61. Dates?

And texas isnt the contential usa.

[Melon]

62. That's.....now.

I was incorrect the renewable in Texas has never had solar and wind combined surpass gas. Not yet.
Oil is really not used in the US for electricity. We are advantaged here on gas. Oil accounts for less than 1% of all US electricity production at utility scale plants. It’s economically viable. Natural gas pricing is up only up a relatively small amount.

[ananda]

8. I have a hybrid which does well in city driving.

Thank goodness.

[maxsolomon]

9. Congratulations.

It must be nice to have 2 year-old cars.

[ret5hd]

10. mine are old enough to...

buy liquor and cigarettes.

if i could buy a self-driving waymo type package for them i’d never have to leave the house.

[Katinfl]

13. Old enough to buy liquor and cigarettes..........that's funny. Needed that laugh today.

[IbogaProject]

38. Mine just turned 18

So I haven't made the jump yet. But a mechanic friend told me his partner has done well with a used prius. As I said they went full electric drivetrain with the gas motor as a generator back in 17 or 18. Those second gen Prius are what I will be looking out for.

[Cirsium]

45. 20 years old

My Saturn is 20 years old.

[maxsolomon]

47. I was driving a 1996 Explorer till 2 years ago

the engine died (for the 3rd time) and we were told there was only 1 reconditioned replacement left in all of North America.

[sarisataka]

12. You got yours, congratulations

The rest of us peasants are still making do as best we can.

[moonscape]

16. Fellow peasant here

[Scrivener7]

35. I don't think that was the message. His point is a good one. Consider a hybrid or EV

for your next purchase and these gas issues won't matter so much to you.

My hybrid is 10 years old. I plan to keep it till the wheels fall off. And I fill up the 7 gallon tank once a month-ish.

Heating the apartment building I live in, however, is a different story. Not looking forward to the next shareholder meeting. They all seem to include the part about maintenance going up because of fuel and insurance costs. But at least we all share the cost.

[moonscape]

64. Yeah, I think the point wasn't

resistance to a hybrid or EV, but that a ‘next vehicle’ isn’t in the cards for lots of folks, even those of us who have vehicles >10 years old.

And, we’d already have one if our resources were different.

[Scrivener7]

66. But not everyone is like you. Some people will need to buy cars in the next few years.

[tinrobot]

54. Until this month, used EVs were very inexpensive

You could get a lightly used one for less than an equivalent gas vehicle.

I get the feeling that might change.

[aggiesal]

15. I have an Acura MDX Sport Hybrid ...

I get about 30+ MPG on the highway.
I budget $70 of gas about once a month, regardless of the price per gallon.
Usually enough to last the month.

[Wounded Bear]

17. Wish I could go EV or at least plug in hybrid...nt

[William Seger]

18. People with solar electricity will also be spared at least some of the cost of powering AI data centers, too

How FUCKING STUPID do you have to be to continue to support fossil fuels and the wealth-hording oligarchs who control them?

[twodogsbarking]

19. Cost of maufactturing and distribution or deliery go up whether you drive or not.

Save where you can.

[usedtobedemgurl]

20. Do you grow your own food?

Do you pick cotton in your fields and process it for clothing? Do you make your own cleaning supplies?

Just because your cars are not affected by gas prices does not mean your family is not.

[talking-liberally]

22. Plug-in hybrid, heat pump and solar panels.

Utility owes me $6K from creating more electricity than I use so electricity is free. Just got a heat pump so heat and air conditioning are free for now as well.

[uncle ray]

27. free energy after you bought at least 50k of stuff.

great if you have the cash sitting around to make it happen, own a home, etc.

for those not in that situation, check your tire pressure, make sure your car is in a good state of tune and drive more conscientiously. waiting for a crisis like this to hit is the worst time to spend a lot of money to save money. oh yeah, and car pool to No Kings on saturday.

[Chemical Bill]

23. I'm happy...

that you are contributing to cleaner air and less holes in Mother Earth. I can purchase biodiesel made with very little petroleum, but I'm between diesel vehicles right now....

Any step in the right direction is a good step.

[RockRaven]

30. Every consumer good you buy, including food, is transported with gas or diesel

(that is just on the roads; trains use diesel and cargo ships use heavy fuel oil/bunker fuel) so this "gas issue" is impacting your finances regardless of your vehicles or driving habits.

It isn't just stuff transported to you whose costs you will feel. Anything moved from A to B in order to facilitate providing you a service will make that service cost more. Almost everything in this economy involves some transportation, and virtually all transportation is petroleum-based.

[wnylib]

48. The Amish will be in better shape than the rest of us.

They grow their own food and have no need for gas or electricity. But even they will have to pay more for cloth to make clothing and quilts. And for spices, flour, and sugar.

[tinrobot]

55. Every gallon of gas an EV doesn't burn reduces demand. That helps everyone.

Including you.

And commercial transport is no longer solely powered by petroleum. Plenty of EV tucks and delivery vans out there in the world. The transition to EV for commercial use has been happening for a while. This crisis will only hasten that transition.

[DBoon]

33. and an increasing part of our electricity comes from renewable

In 2024 over 20 percent

The portion of renewable electricity is increasing as it costs less than fossil fuels

[Coventina]

36. As my mother used to say

"Pin a rose on your nose."

[flvegan]

40. Tell us you don't know how the economy works

without saying you "don't know how the economy works"

[durablend]

46. Wait till the electric rates shoot up!

[Melon]

65. Why would they? Natural gas prices have stayed around $3mmbtu Oil is not used for electricity.

[ecstatic]

58. how much is the insurance?

I watched a somewhat disturbing video---maybe it was propaganda, but they brought up how car insurance costs more and you have to get a special outlet installed in your home. Access on the go is tricky at times and you can run out of power while waiting to get a charge.

[hunter]

71. There's nothing special about electric car chargers.

Any electrician can install a 240 volt outlet, the same sort you'd use for a clothes dryer. That will reliably charge overnight an electric car used for commuting and trips to the big box stores.

Upscale apartment complexes in my region of California are installing electric chargers in their carports hoping to attract more affluent tenants.

Many families have two cars. The second car might be gasoline-powered and used for long trips.

I don't know anything about the insurance. I drive old cars and only carry liability insurance. Some of my cars have had salvage titles. I bought a new car once, back in the 'eighties. I'll never do that again.

[hunter]

72. I've bounced around in my life from gasoline being a negligible expense...

... to being an oh shit, groceries-or-gasoline stress test.

When I was a wild young thing I could fill the gas tank of my little Toyota for less than an hour's wages. I burned more than my fair share of gasoline driving all over the Western U.S.A. and the border regions of Mexico.

Later my wife and I got married, bought a house, and had kids. The price of gas mattered.

In times of illness and great piles of medical bills, the price of gasoline mattered a lot.

Knock on wood, but gasoline is currently a negligible expense to us. We try to minimize our use of gasoline to reduce our environmental footprint. I'll never repay the damage I've done to earth's natural environment by my carefree use of fossil fuels.