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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFor those who believe Butler PA was "staged" or false flag...
You'd have to believe that Trump agreed to have a shooter place a round an inch from his head as part of the deal...
And that's just one of many reasons to debunk this nonsense.
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LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)
EarthAbides
(455 posts)Believing it was staged and shouting it from the rooftops takes away any credibility from the fascist pig... That is better than doing nothing...
WarGamer
(18,797 posts)
stopdiggin
(15,591 posts)
Walleye
(45,191 posts)I find it hard to believe it was staged. But I don’t believe everything he says about it.
WarGamer
(18,797 posts)Most of us have eyes and cognitive ability... anyone saying Butler was a FF or staged might as well be PizzaGate loons
Walleye
(45,191 posts)This one either
PatSeg
(53,291 posts)I don't believe it was staged, but I do believe it was embellished a lot for political gain. Also so much was withheld from the public, how can we take them seriously? 
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)He sees subtle signs. These type of injuries bleed alot. Roar much worse than the bite.
Dr Jackson worded it weird. What on earth does he mean by 2 cm wide? That's huge gaping wound. Or was it a scraping type wound that was 2 cm long? One word makes a huge difference! I could see a 2 cm long wound. Had one to my eyebrow once. It was about as serious as Trump's ear. Yet, Jackson makes it sound like a minor wound in the second half of the paragraph.
ear. The bullet track produced a 2 cm wide wound that extended down to the cartilaginous surface of the ear.
There was initially significant bleeding, followed by marked swelling of the entire upper ear. The swelling has
since resolved, and the wound is beginning to granulate and heal properly. Based on the highly vascular nature
of the ear, there is still intermittent bleeding requiring a dressing to be in place. Given the broad and blunt
nature of the wound itself, no sutures were required.
Well a 2 cm gaping wound, would need sutures. The whole thing is worded dumb...But I think his license was previously revoked. Hence he's free to bullshit.
PatSeg
(53,291 posts)we can take anything that Dr. Ronny Jackson says.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)But notes are supposed to be objectively descriptive, so that the reader can visually picture it.
I had a hard time trying to visualize this 2 cm wide minor wound that didn't need much intervention besides a bandage, ointment and possibly routine antibiotics and maybe a tetnus shot?
PatSeg
(53,291 posts)sounds like Trump wrote it.
biocube
(238 posts)But Buden's FBI confirmed he was hit by the bullet.
And how do the conspiracy theorists think Trump can find people willing to die or go to jail for a long time to help him politically?
RedWhiteBlueIsRacist
(2,142 posts)Freaky! 
lame54
(39,956 posts)
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)lame54
(39,956 posts)TheRickles
(3,463 posts)My main question was if the kid been noticed by security 1/2 hour before the shooting, why didn't anyone go up on the roof to check on him? There's incompetence, and then there's whatever this was.
Plus the too-neat-by-half blood smear on his face, the quickly healing ear, and the photo op with Secret Service (who should have immediately pinned him to the ground, or rushed him away like they did last night - which I believe was a legit event that occurred because of gross incompetence by the security team. But it'd be nice to get more info at some point).
oldmanlynn
(831 posts)They don’t care about somebody else that’s collateral damage. Because they feel like they can get by with it. I don’t know how you explain them, moving photographers into position after he was hit.
W_HAMILTON
(10,396 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)That’s some kooky CT nonsense.
W_HAMILTON
(10,396 posts)And just checking, do you buy his justification about the Iran war or do you likewise think it's a conspiracy to say it was just to distract from his Epstein scandal, poor performance, etc.?
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)Drunk with power and addicted to military snuff films.
Regarding the assassination attempts, as Rudy Giuliani put it, there are lots of theories, but no evidence.
BannonsLiver
(20,742 posts)Talk about not being reality based. 
lame54
(39,956 posts)I'm calling out the magical healing ear to a person who thinks the assassination attempt was legitimate
Melon
(1,572 posts)I’m not understanding what there is to explain. A bullet barely grazed his ear. Ears and the head bleed a lot. It wasn’t some major hit.
lame54
(39,956 posts)If all we have is their word
Forget it
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)Just after the first shot was fired, the lift, which was holding up a large flag, started to spew hydraulic fluid on the crowd, and its boom started to descend.
I think the firefighter was seated to the north of Trump, and that the back of his head was struck by the second or third bullet. I do not think he had time to react in the instant before the bullet struck him.
I base my opinions on a YouTube video by fellow whose name is Mike Bell. He posted his video a few days after the event. He used a CAD (computer assisted drafting) analysis to track the trajectories of the rounds. His analysis seemed sensible to me when I watched the video in July 2024. The video is still up on YouTube.
Scrivener7
(59,908 posts)Why would this pathological grandstander keep those under wraps?
Boo1
(421 posts)but to play devil's advocate....
Do we think that Trump would really care if one of his supporters were killed in a staged assassination attempt? Hell, if you were going to stage an assassination attempt I think you'd probably want somebody to get hit.
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)Did the SS know?
Did Susie Wiles know?
Did Stephen Miller know?
Did Trump know? (If so, he deserves an Oscar and a Tony)
Good question.
What's the minimum number of people who could have pulled it off?
1: The Shooter. This one has to be involved to know who to shoot.
2: 1 additional person who could have manipulated security enough to give him the opportunity.
That 1 additional person doesn't even have to be Trump, but it you don't believe that he would have stood up and pumped his fist in that moment without knowing that he wasn't in danger then he would have had to know.
What's that saying? 2 can keep a secret if one of them is dead?
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)Kooky CT nonsense.
Boo1
(421 posts)I don't think there's any magic bullet theories here.
Does it take some suspension of disbelief that the Secret Service simply didn't secure the most obvious point on the site AND that a complete amateur found the hole and got there? That's along with the fact that several police were sending messages about a guy acting strange. Two minutes before the shooting police were radioing that there was somebody on the roof. 45 seconds before the shooting they were radioing that he had a rifle.
Why didn't the Secret Service detail move at that point?
Justice matters.
(9,956 posts)due to his careless enemy-making every single minute they have to take a bullet to save him and they were hoping a "no miss" 
mr715
(3,867 posts)Nor Kristi Noem.
Nor Markwayne Mullin.
On the basis of the fact that they are limited in their ability to "know". Like a ficus or a fern.
Melania would be a part of the list if she weren't so obviously someone with something to gain...
viva la
(4,621 posts)It could just be because Trump routinely fires people who do their jobs well. But these are a lot of very close calls that seem like they shouldn't have gotten so far.
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)themaguffin
(5,299 posts)They have values of course.
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)Will the shooter admit he has Proud Boy connections?
themaguffin
(5,299 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)The Proud Boys were one of the Primary groups, along with the Oath Keepers and 3%er’s, who planned the J6 insurrection, remember? A lot of them went to prison until Trump set them free.
So, by your own statement, you appear to believe the PB’s, OK’s and 3%er’s were in on the plot to stage an assassination attempt on Trump, regardless of whether innocent bystanders were killed.
The logical fallacies and lack of critical thinking on display on DU the past 24 hours is astounding.
themaguffin
(5,299 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2026, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)
It's staggering to get a reply that even quotes me & yet adds illogical nonsense to the reply.
trump was behind it. All of it.
rEmEbEr?
Donnie to the Proud Boys to "“Stand back and stand by...”
rEmEmbEr?
Lack of logic and critical thinking indeed.
This is quite the bowel movement...
Oof.
Happy Hoosier
(9,576 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)How do they knowingly place Trump in the line of fire of the shooter, who kills a bystander, but according to the CT, deliberately chooses not to shoot Trump, while sacrificing himself for the cause? In the meantime, top Hollywood special effects technicians “fake” Trump’s ear wound?
Once critical thinking skills are applied, the CT completely falls apart.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)Any wound to head bleeds like heck. The scalp contains many superificial veins.
It was a minor wound. Pretty much healed within a week.
Fiendish Thingy
(23,647 posts)Wuddles440
(2,111 posts)critical thinking skills, I have to take issue with those who lack any actual professional experience in dignitary protection operations declaring that there's nothing about these events that could be considered staged or conspiratorial in nature. To do so, reflects a lack of knowledge and understanding best practices and protocols regarding protectee security and utilization of false flags to garner public support.
sarisataka
(22,763 posts)in dignitary protection operations to give you insight into false flag operations?
Wuddles440
(2,111 posts)and supervisor in dignitary protection assignments. I'm now retired.
muriel_volestrangler
(106,437 posts)Wuddles440
(2,111 posts)rather comprehensive regarding such activity (Reichstag Fire, Gleiwitz Incident, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, etc.), one only needs to look to Pedo Don's mentor for more contemporary examples such as the Buynaksk and Volgodonsk apartment bombings along with the the Ryazan "attempted" bombing (orchestrated by the FSB to blame Chechens and enabled Putin to ultimately consolidate his power) and the "Little Green Men" invading and occupying both Georgia and Crimea (Russian Special Forces posing as local militia).
muriel_volestrangler
(106,437 posts)where it was blame falsely put onto a whole group or country, with individual assassinations. From your list, the only one with an individual is the Reichstag Fire, and that is generally reckoned to really have been done by Van Der Lubbe acting willingly, with the Nazis taking advantage of it.
But your claimed position as a professional has nothing to do with 1930s Nazi Germany anyway, so you're just another internet commentator on the subject.
Wuddles440
(2,111 posts)I spent thirty years serving the citizens of this country, so what's your contribution to maintaining this democratic republic? Your comment mirrors the attacks on public servants that the Republicons/MAGATS have been promoting of decades. Also, my response was regarding "false flags'' in general and cited a few of them. The list is much more extensive and you need to research a more accurate source for your criticism. Goodbye.
muriel_volestrangler
(106,437 posts)It is just a claim.
I have criticized the one example you gave of an individual who was blamed, since most people accept he did do it. None of your examples were about personal protection, so any employment in that area is pretty irrelevant. If there's more on your list that are about individuals accused of attacks like this or Butler, then name another, and explain why there's any reason to think there's doubt that the individual did it of their own free will, as opposed to the apparent target actually being involved in the planning.
Wuddles440
(2,111 posts)Noted and alerted.
sarisataka
(22,763 posts)(Ex-military, provided security to Pentagon officials, foreign government dignitaries, Mikhail Gorbachev and Pres Bush the first of his name)
I can see how one could do a FF with a small detail fairly easily but given the number of people involved in large security situations, the secrecy would become unwieldy. There would be too much risk and person not in-the-know would blow the staged event unless so many know about it there is almost no chance to avoid a leak before or after.
BannonsLiver
(20,742 posts)I don’t begrudge those who have questions about things like this from asking those questions. And besides, I’m not sure it’s any worse than, for example, believing Trump’s birthday parade was really about the Army’s birthday, and not his own self aggrandizement, or believing that the Iran war would be over in days with the Iranian people rising up, or saying Democrats should stop talking about Epstein, or expecting the McFlurry machine to be working at McDonald’s. That’s what real buffoonery looks like.
Igel
(37,584 posts)But the questions are never able be answered to the satisfaction of the questioner. Answer them, however well, and the answer is ignored, the evidence "debunked" or simply declared, ex catedra, to be false. Then the same question can be asked the next day, and the next, and the next.
Kingofalldems
(40,344 posts)BannonsLiver
(20,742 posts)Though I did add the McFlurry reference as a bit of garnish.
leftstreet
(41,124 posts)Every time Trump or his people open their mouths, they lie
The corporate media lie
They're all fact-checked, caught, exposed...and nothing happens. We collectively roll our eyes and say, well yeah they all lie
There's no reason then to admonish people when they're skeptical of any official narrative
stopdiggin
(15,591 posts)perfectly acceptable to spin out a completely spurious narrative on something - while employing the justification that, "well the other guys .. " Lies are still lies. And it is a matter of whether you are (willingly) participating in the toxic degradation of national/social discourse.
Are you a purveyor of lies? Do you think it is OK to promote misinformation? There is the real question.
ForgedCrank
(3,118 posts)the story I am supposed to believe is that there is a massive conspiracy, Trump planned his own fake assassination attempt for unknown reasons, of which we can make up whatever we want, and that thousands of staff, security, outside vendors all would have to turn a blind eye to, and we can believe and repeat all this without fear of a well-deserved scolding.
Or the alternative story that Trump is an asshole, a lot of people hate him, and one of them crossed the line and wanted to kill him.
Gee, it's a real toss up on which could possibly be true.
hlthe2b
(114,315 posts)and that is the absolute conclusion that it was a bullet that whizzed past his head/ear and not debris or fragments.
Personally, and possessing a great deal of medical/clinical ER expertise and experience myself that I will stake against just about anyone, I have doubts it was a bullet, but I am most certainly NOT prepared to say that conclusively. Is it possible? Certainly. But, give us his medical reports on the ER description and extent of the injury and I might be more conducive to concluding a bullet "whizzed by his head" (and not random debris or even shell fragments). What I am convinced about are three things. 1. the SS fucked up big time; and 2. A poor unwitting innocent guy lost his life as a result; and 3. Trump milked it for all it was worth for his opportunistic self-aggrandizement.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)It did bleed. To me it seemed more like a shard, but experts disagreed. However, any scene like that is chaotic. That's how I see it. You can try to disect it, it's still chaotic.
I got pushed into a locker and it cut my eyebrow, my daughter hit her eyebrow on a playpen hinge. They seem to be similar injuries to Trump's although, obviously a different part of the head and obvious no bullets involved. But when I saw Trump's bleeding it seemed to be on parr with that type of injury. Don't know much about blood circulation to the ear however. I do know that a minor injury to the head can create alot of blood. It seems the trauma Trump had was about the severity that my daughter and I sustained. Which was obviously minor. I did get sent home from school that day and got stitches...Daughter also got stitches...
I also blacked out a bit, because I don't remember being pushed. (I had to be told I was pushed. I thought I fell) I just remember blood running down my face.
Sorry, rambling on...
But I do believe he was injured at Butler. The exact injury was minor...He was lucky. That's all I know...
misanthrope
(9,556 posts)The things that give me pause all concern the source of the wound.
We know four law enforcement officers near Trump reported minor wounds from flying debris.
We know the only medical report issued was by his crackpot personal physician and political actor Ronny Jackson, a man whose own past is enough cast doubt on his veracity.
We saw photos of Trump just weeks later that showed little to no discernible damage to his right ear. That has remained consistent with photos of his right ear in the year and a half since then.
So which is more likely, that Trump received an exceedingly rare grazing by a live round that left little to no lasting damage from either bullet or cavitation, or that he was struck by debris as the four LEOs were?
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)there was no bullet whizzing past his ear. It was fake blood.
At this point I would give the probability of yesterday's silliness being faked or manipulated at about 50%.
The "bloody ear" incident? 95% chance it was faked.
Epstein committed suicide in his cell? 99.99999% that was faked... He was murdered. (Hope to hell nobody on here still believes the suicide story)
In EVERY situation, one person came out on top and got what he wanted..That person was Donald Trump.
Can't wait for the DU "truth monitors" to defend Trump's excuse for postponing (cancelling)
the November elections. The emergency circumstances will be extravagant, of urgent national security and they will be....unbelievable. But some, on this board, will say that questioning it is just a crazy-assed "conspiracy theory".
Shellback Squid
(10,123 posts)History missed by millimeters
tritsofme
(19,929 posts)
gulliver
(14,047 posts)If you believe these staging fantasies, you have the rare opportunity and, indeed, the good fortune of knowing for a fact that you believe something that's obviously wrong, stupid, and paranoid. Seriously, you know you're being an idiot. It's the first step on the road from idiocy and toward wisdom. It's a blessing. Count yourself lucky.
As corrective action, first, stop believing stupid, paranoid shit. Just stop. It's easy. Meditate on the feeling you have when thinking about what you now know is stupid, paranoid shit. Consciously mark that feeling. Every time you feel it, ask yourself, "Am I experiencing a temptation to give credence to stupid, paranoid shit again?" You'll catch yourself a few times. You'll learn to distinguish between what's reasonable and what's stupid, paranoid shit. Again, count yourself lucky. You've been given a signal light in the darkness.
Second, determine why you believe stupid, paranoid shit. Take action against the reasons.
Is it someone who told you something that led you this astray? You now know for a fact that they are bad company. They're either stupid or paranoid (unfortunately, like you now know yourself to be) or they think you're stupid and paranoid and are victimizing you as a mark, a stepping stone, clout for their clout hoard.
Dump them. Warn others about them.
Doodley
(12,018 posts)and is on the floor, he also uses a discreet tool to lightly cut his ear. The fireman is shot at close quarters by an agent who is in on the conspiracy. Crooks is either brainwashed or told he is helping with a training exercise. Possibly, only as few people actually there are in on the conspiracy. Any questions?
muriel_volestrangler
(106,437 posts)You have to, for a conspiracy theory to be credible, have motives for the main people involved. The Butler guy ended up dead, and that was always a high possibility. Unless he's a suicidal pro-Trump guy, it doesn't make sense.
Similarly, this new guy was at significant risk of dying. A conspiracy theory needs a motive for him. Do people really think they found someone suicidal, who actually wanted help Trump to - what, build a ballroom? Get a good reception at a new Correspondents Dinner? - enough to risk his life, or spend years in prison?
questionseverything
(11,878 posts)Like a suggestion is implanted and then some signal delivered
muriel_volestrangler
(106,437 posts)The former was about how there were people in the US military who thought that could work; the latter was rather more "what if it had worked?", and was clearly fiction. We've had films like The Manchurian Candidate for some time, but I think people need to beware thinking that this has happened in real life.
Ritabert
(2,523 posts)....so it looks like he was hit.
mopinko
(73,824 posts)conspiracies do exist. and these are just the sort of evil ppl who wd engage in them.
3catwoman3
(29,640 posts)...and that he was so eager to pop up to give his ever-so-irritating raised fist gesture. I don't know how many agents were on him, but I doubt he's in good enough shape to fight off 3-4 agents.
If I'd been shot at, I'd sure as hell stay down.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)Trump on the other hand was a buffoon...
3catwoman3
(29,640 posts)...was about the bullet grazing the ear incident.
GoCubsGo
(34,971 posts)who allegedly treated him for his alleged "gun shot" wound. You'd think by now at least one of them would have come forward with details of how they supposedly treated him. I am not going to say that there was some conspiracy, but that doesn't mean the whole thing didn't reek to high Heaven. The same goes for last night's incident. I can see them going either way. We're talking about a reality show con man who is all about production, but who values yes-men over competence.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)He's the only one who can release the records. His records are protected by HIPAA. I believe the ER gave a quick press release (he's OK type thing) and Trump posted on SM while he was there.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,665 posts)Then why did he have secret service protection?
I'm a private citizen and I don't have secret service protection.
I would think the brave wounded warrior with the maxi pad on his mangled ear would want the details of his near death experience and heroic recovery spread worldwide.
It wasn't necessary to release his "records." Just tell us what the heck really happened!
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)Likewise, we aren't privy to everything medical about President Obama or President Clinton unless they send out press releases or provide release statements under certain circumstances. As a private citizen, if you are injured or hospitalized, you can allow a medical facility to release little, some or no information about your condiiton to the public.
tritsofme
(19,929 posts)I find that to be quite the odd expectation, myself.
RockRaven
(19,626 posts)One can reject the RW propaganda about this event without believing it was staged/false flag, and vice versa one can reject the false flag CT without accepting the BS narrative from The Dotard et al.
There is very little in the public record about purpose/motive for this event. There is no need to presume anything to try to make things fit a neat, senseful narrative. Things don't have to make sense or have purpose or have meaning. There are pointless mass shootings by disaffected losers all the time in this country, and this could fit that pattern too -- only with the ultimate event taking advantage of an opportunity which presented itself in his neighborhood.
underpants
(196,917 posts)
AZJonnie
(3,883 posts)But thanks for reminding us what the main sticking point (we've discussed in like 200 threads over last year and a half) is. I had almost forgotten
pat_k
(13,578 posts)I think that is a far better message "For those who believe Butler PA was "staged" or false flag..."
Whether Butler, or this latest "incident" was, or was not LIHOP (intentionally lax security inviting crisis) or somehow engineered (mentally unstable people or members of the resistance CAN BE, and HAVE BEEN intentionally radicalized in the service of the counter-resistance), we will likely never know. So, absent exposure, asserting "staged" makes one a "conspiracy nut."
Because my first thought on hearing about events at the WHCA dinner was "too well timed with all-time polling lows to be real," I'm apparently a conspiracy nut.
I had been kicking my "nuttiness" a bit as I read the "staged" and "STFU about it" posts here. Then I saw Figarosmom's post of Richard Teresi's latest.
Richard Teresi's message is an essential one. Perhaps we will never know which POV is true, but the fact that my initial instinct to the latest "incident" was "something is seriously wrong here -- too convenient" no longer bothers me. Even if just a gut instinct that is somehow unequivocally proven to be wrong, when viewed "through the lens of historical pattern recognition" that gut instinct is NOT CRAZY."
Cerulean Southpaw
(55 posts)I they had faked it, their shooter or patsy would've had a complete manufactured backstory already prepared in advance that matched every stereotype they associate with democrats.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,665 posts)No, I wouldn't.
Is that supposed to be a bullet flying past his head? Is that time lapsed, or is it a foot long?
That whatever it is could be miles away! Why didn't it go through his head, or bounce off?
Where is the crowd behind him?
Why is it over his left shoulder when it was his right ear that was mortally wounded?
His stubby fat baby hand! 
hamsterjill
(17,693 posts)Someone could have taken a still and made a pencil mark.
We don't know whether it was all staged or not. But the fact that so many of us don't accept the official explanation sure says something. From the day it happened, I knew something was off. I stand by that feeling.
Just because we can't PROVE that it was fake does not mean that it was not fake. I'll leave it at that.
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)The Pulitzer Committee reviewed the negatives and verified that Doug Mills's photos are real. Photography and optics experts concluded the film which was used and the setting of the camera shutter speed would be able to capture a streaking image of a rifle round moving at its fired speed, just as the the image appears in the photograph.
The authenticity of the photographic image has never been challenged by any expert.
hamsterjill
(17,693 posts)Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Guess there’s just nothing that’s ever going to convince me it was legitimate. I’ll just have to live with that.
Have a great afternoon.
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)Taking a break from reading the news allowed me to enjoy the afternoon.
Best wishes!
dpibel
(4,000 posts)That's some serious retro stuff!
You pretty sure about examining the negatives?
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)When I was commenting earlier in this thread, I mentioned "negatives" which is incorrect. Photographer Doug Mills, of course, used a high quality digital camera. In a previous post, I added an edit mentioning that mistake of mine.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,665 posts)Where's the clouds? Where's the crowd behind him?
The ONLY thing visible other than him and his baby hand is a foot long needle thin "bullet?"
The Pulitzer committee supposedly verified the photo and negatives were real, did they verify the bullet was real?
My first thought was Piggy assigned the committee, he's taken over anything he wants to so it's a completely valid question.
I think it must be a very rare professional photographer who uses film in this advanced digital age.
Agree with your conclusion. 
sarisataka
(22,763 posts)And who took the photo of Neil Armstrong going down the ladder?
We're supposed to believe there was an external camera? Seriously?
Photographs mean nothing if it doesn't agree with my theory
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)I know that I might get flamed for my following comment, but it is true.
I live thirteen miles from the Butler County venue.I was watching live via a YouTube stream. I broke the news on DU. I remember that Saturday and its weather conditions quite well. It was hot, and there was not a cloud in the sky.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,665 posts)I don't believe he was shot in the ear, or that the "bullet" was a foot long, and apparently went through his right ear and out the left side.
I'm getting tired of being insulted and called names because I am skeptical of a pathological lying sack of worthless filth.
That photo looks fake, TO ME.
Send him a generous donation and a lovely get well card, that'll show me.
sarisataka
(22,763 posts)most of it is the shockwave; if you magnify the image you can see the bullet at the extreme right end.
The bullet is moving left to right and has passed his head, hence it appears over his left shoulder.
I can be skeptical of a person without denying physical facts.
Have a lovely evening.
Resistance1
(167 posts)When Evander Holy Field's is still missing from 1997!
Skittles
(172,336 posts)zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
William Seger
(12,509 posts)Bullets from high-powered rifles don't "whiz" unless they hit something first and start spinning end-over-end. A bullet directly from that rifle would be travelling faster than sound and would instead make a sharp cracking sound, exactly like a whip (because it's a similar small "sonic boom" ). I do think it was a real assassination attempt, but I think the bullet hit something first.
oldmanlynn
(831 posts)Just because there’s a picture like that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s real
flashman13
(2,495 posts)The average muzzle velocity of a 5.56 x 45 round from an AR16 type rifle is 3,000fps. A good estimate of that supposed track in the picture is one foot. That is, that track occurred in 1/3,000th of a second. The average shutter speed of a cell phone camera is 1/1000th of a second. A cell phone camera couldn't have caught that fast of a target. If the camera registered anything, it would be a short blur at best. It takes a very fast specialized high speed camera to catch moving bulliets.
IMHO, the picture is a fake. I know there are many camera enthusiasts on DU. If you disagree with my annalysis, please, I would like to hear your opinion.
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)The Pulitzer committee agreed with experts that the film with Mr. Mills used and the setting of the shutter speed of his high quality camera could have produced the image of a streaking round in flight at muzzle velocity.
flashman13
(2,495 posts)John1956PA
(5,062 posts)flashman13
(2,495 posts)I've been a sport shooter for 60+ years and I consider myself a fair marksman.
Everything about the shooting is problematic. An AR 15 style rifle is the last thing anyone intent on making a kill shot would use. The weapon used had no bi-pod and had a very poor non-magnified optical sight. Note the difference between Crooks' weapon and the government sharp shooters. A capable shooter could have made the shot, but even then some luck would have been necessary. We know Crooks practiced the day before, but if that was his total experience, he was hardly a capable shooter.
Crooks was laying on his stomach, cradling the weapon in his hand on a hot tin roof. That is hardly the ideal shooting platform. The only shot that had any real chance of hitting Trump (discounting pure blind luck) would have been the first shot. That is the one time at which Crooks could have taken deliberate aim and slowly squeezed off at shot when he was sure he was on target. Even for a good marksman, under those circumstances, reacquiring the target for a second and subsequent shots, would be difficult. We also know Crooks had to have felt rushed because he knew he had been spotted. None of this contributes to any sort of marksmanship. After the first shot Crooks just keep pulling the trigger rapidly with little chance of hitting Trump.
Having said all that, maybe it was a real assassination attempt by a gross amateur and Trump just got lucky that Crooks was a poor shot. At a minimum, security was very lax and the fact that he could have been in a position to shoot doesn't speak very highly of the Secret Service.
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)Assuming the official narrative is true, Crooks was somewhere in the process of getting ready to make his first shot when the local police officer popped his head up above the roof ege behind him. Crooks shooed the officer away by turning his rifle toward him. Thereafter, Crooks assumed his sniper poise. By that time, Trump had turned his head so that his right profile no longer formed the target. (Such a profile target would have been an easier shot to make.) The target which Crooks had to settle for was the front of Trump's head.
I do not wish to debate what happened next. I could be wrong in all of by thoughts. Having said that, I will mention that I think Crooks fired his first shot which grazed Trump's right ear. I think two or three more shots were fired in that volley. I think the back of the firefighter's head was struck by one of the shots in that first volley. I think that, after a few seconds, a second volley of about four shots commenced. As you stated, all shots following the first one were basically wild in nature.
I think an exchange of opinions as to what occurred that day is fine. I was interested in watching the rally live, via YouTube, because the venue is about thirteen miles from where I live. It was a stunning moment for me to watch it unfold live via the YouTube stream.
Best wishes.
John
Melon
(1,572 posts)My son who is 11 can make that shot all day long. Every shot into a dinner plate. Every shot. 20 shots straight.
AR15 rifles are very accurate. It’s one of the reasons you see them everywhere. A 5.56(.223 cal) is shooting basically flat at 150 yards. We don’t even head out from the range unless our rifles are hitting within 1.5 inches at 100 yards. I am not the same as most here and probably own at least 5 rifles in that caliber alone. We target shoot and hunt.
Everything you say about being rushed or follow up shots or a follow-up are true. But it’s not a hard shot especially with an optic. We used to shoot routinely out to 500 yards with a .223 and it was the go to caliber for prairie dogs out to 300 yards. Those are about the size of a Gatorade bottle. With wind it was not a sure thing at 300-350 yards, but I would say 3 out of 5 shots were good. But the number is 90% under 225 yards.
And that caliber would graze or not kill as well. You can nick anything with a bullet and the bullet just keeps going. It wouldn’t do anything to an ear anyway if you directly hit it. It would pass through like a nail and leave a similar hole. It’s too light of skin to do anything.
flashman13
(2,495 posts)So how long has your son been practicing? I would wager it is more than one day.
IMHO AEMS optics are shit.
Also IMHO 5.56 x 45 is highly over rated. That is why AKs and their variants are the most widely built and used rifle in the world.
I'm also going to be honest when I say, ARs are popular because you can bolt on an endless number of bells and whistles that makes them look sexy.
I stand 100% by everything I said.
Melon
(1,572 posts)Hitting a man sized object at 150yards is not difficult at all for a kid with one day of instruction. It’s a flat shot. He was shooting from a rest. He didn’t have the right optic, but there was no super human skill involved. The kid had been target shooting. It was pure luck that he didn’t hit the president that day.
Russia and allies went away from 7.62 x 39 where they could and modernized to a smaller bullet in line with our over a decade ago. They went to 5.45 x 39 for the same reason we did. The 7.62 x 39 is not superior. I shoot both. May close range in a city with a larger bullet but has less range and much less speed. The next Russian caliber will likely be in between at 6.02 x 41mm.
AR are popular because they are inexpensive and you can bolt stiff on, but they are also inherently accurate with quick follow up shots.
Response to John1956PA (Reply #82)
mahatmakanejeeves This message was self-deleted by its author.
flashman13
(2,495 posts)take the photo.
Here is an analysis by someone who is an expert on high speed photography. He has his doubts.
https://haje.medium.com/theres-a-problem-with-that-bullet-in-flight-photo-of-trump-333dc1eeda1a
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 26, 2026, 08:57 PM - Edit history (1)
I am thinking you mean that the Pulitzer Prize Committee is on record stating that the streak "could" be an airborne round. I am not surprised that the committee would use the word "could" in that context.
I think everyone agrees that the streak appears in the original negative. Of course, whether it shows a streaking bullet or something else is a fair area of scrutiny.
ON EDIT: I was incorrect in making reference to a film negative. Of course, today, advanced cameras are fully digital. Doug Mills used a fully digital camera to photograph the event. Because any given image is captured digitally and stored in the same manner, I do not know how a given photographer can establish the act of personality snapping the image. Perhaps there are artifacts in the digital image files which identify the camera which captured them.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,665 posts)
mahatmakanejeeves
(70,391 posts)Arlington photographer wins third Pulitzer for photos of attempted Trump assassination
By Dan Egitto
Published May 22, 2025 at 3:45PM
Doug Mills (photo by Anna Moneymaker, courtesy of Doug Mills)
An Arlington-based photographer has won a Pulitzer Prize for his photos of last summer’s assassination attempt on President Donald Trump.
Doug Mills, a lifelong Arlington resident who discovered his love of photography at the Arlington Career Center, took home the honor this month for photos including a “one-in-a-million” shot of a bullet in midair — an instant before [after, isn't it?] it hits Trump’s ear.
“I still can’t believe it, even when I look at the picture, how remarkable that image is, because it obviously proves that he was shot at,” Mills told ARLnow, referring to the photo in which the bullet appears as a gray line.
{snip}
This is Mills’ third Pulitzer, following prizes for team coverage of the Clinton/Gore campaign and the Monica Lewinsky scandal.
{snip}
Dan Egitto
Dan Egitto is an editor and reporter at ARLnow. Originally from Central Florida, he graduated from Duke University and previously reported at the Palatka Daily News in Florida and the Vallejo Times-Herald in California. Dan joined ARLnow in January 2024.
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)The Pulitzer Committee reviewed the negatives and verified that Doug Mills's photos are real. Photography and optics experts concluded the film which was used and the setting of the camera shutter speed would be able to capture a streaking image of a rifle round moving at its fired speed, just as the the image appears in the photograph.
The authenticity of the photographic image has never been challenged by any expert.
lees1975
(7,136 posts)And didn't encounter a single obstacle.
AStern
(889 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 26, 2026, 11:03 PM - Edit history (1)
ColoringFool
(907 posts)
jmowreader
(53,309 posts)What would be more probable:
Stephen Miller: "Mr. President, the Butler rally will guarantee your re-election!"
Trump: "Great! Make it happen!"
Raine
(31,214 posts)that far to fake something. Plus somebody else was also shot but lived.
Blue Full Moon
(3,579 posts)Kingofalldems
(40,344 posts)WarGamer
(18,797 posts)Scrivener7
(59,908 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2026, 07:09 AM - Edit history (1)
William Gustafson
(555 posts)lees1975
(7,136 posts)follows the same script. At least this time the guy wasn't a raving right wing MAGA lunatic, but he did plan in advance and then leave behind a manifesto.
So don't denigrate those who think these things might be staged. That's exactly what this maniac would do to change the narrative. And he wouldn't give a damn if some innocent life were taken in the process.
John1956PA
(5,062 posts)Routh in Florida and Allen in D.C. each left a manifesto. Crooks in Butler did not.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)lees1975
(7,136 posts)LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)Melon
(1,572 posts)We are the repubs after they lost the election.
How can the educated party be off on such a tangent? Somehow people need to get grounded again and focus on what’s important versus trying to invent a story where a president that we consider to dumb to function somehow planned having a bullet come within 2” of his head and kill a man.
Vogon_Glory
(10,334 posts)Germany’s Kaiser Wilhelm may have had the nerve to let sharp-shooter Annie Oakley shoot a cigarette out of his mouth back in 1890, but I don’t believe that MAGA’s favorite Donald John has the same mettle.
Tommy Carcetti
(44,567 posts)I truly believe he only took shrapnel and that they overplayed it as if he took a bullet. If he took a bullet he’d be dead. The fact that they have been willfully obtuse about it and haven’t released any medical records other than from “Doctor Ronny” tends to support this argument.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)But I think he's been that way his entire life.
The GOP really used it against Biden too. It was another nail in the Democrats coffin in 2024.
Autumn
(48,989 posts)The guy wasn't even on the same floor. LOL A lot of fucking drama for a trashy ballroom.
LeftInTX
(34,696 posts)He was trying, but didn't make it.
There's a difference between phony and unsuccessful.
Autumn
(48,989 posts)All of them in a room in the hotel off the scene laughing and smiling just a short bit after being pulled out. After a shooting people just don't have a great time like that. It's my opinion it was phony as fuck, don't like it don't respond to it. 
John1956PA
(5,062 posts). . . simply for the purpose of placing a bit more information on this thread, I hereby submit the sequence of the three Doug Mills photographs:
In the first photo, there no red patch in Trump's palm. In the third photo, there is a patch of red.
WarGamer
(18,797 posts)Clearly... the plan was to reach for his ear after the bullet whizzed by... and behind the lobe was a fake blood capsule which he broke.
Torchlight
(6,956 posts)just a few more days and success will be ours to share.