This message was self-deleted by its author

[bobclark86]

This message was self-deleted by its author (bobclark86) on Mon Mar 30, 2015, 12:54 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[jberryhill]

1. "It's my first day back to work this year"

One of those "9 to 4" jobs, I gather.

[Honeycombe8]

107. LOL. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. Is this a continuation of this? If so, I wish the Group Hosts would lock it. It only attracts.....

the dittoheads. Rush has already read one of you guys on air. Enough already. This topic has been explained to folks like you. Get over it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022125273

[RandiFan1290]

20. Not a continuation

Just another one trying to get some attention

[REP]

106. Hosts can't lock this because it does fit the Statement of Purpose

OPs have to be about politics, current events or issues. We don't have to determine if they're creative writing projects or not.

We can point and laugh, though (and not at you).

[Glitterati]

143. However, it's a duplicate of a duplicate of a duplicate

to infinity.

[REP]

155. Not even for that - only in LBN

[RomneyLies]

3. See post 87. eom

[OccupyManny]

4. Screwed

Hi, I am new here although I view the site a lot. I am so damn mad. I'm losing about $25 a week now. I drive long haul trucks and I can't believe I'm getting screwed while some CEO feels no pain.

I didn't see this coming. I don't understand it. The little guy always gets the shaft.

[RomneyLies]

8. See post 87. eom

[pinboy3niner]

21. +1

[RomneyLies]

48. Pardon me

[pinboy3niner]

50. ...

[RomneyLies]

53. ...

[robinlynne]

55. hey. there is no post 87. I wanna see post 87! love your graphics!

you made me laugh. (hard to do)

[RomneyLies]

59. Long story short

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022119584#post87

And thus a new DU meme was born.

[Buns_of_Fire]

140. Who knows? Maybe "Post 87" will become the new "700 Club" of DU. :) nt

[freshwest]

47. Thank you. Someone has to say it. See the newbies gathering.

Interesting pick for a name there, don't you think?

And not tombstoned yet.

[NYC_SKP]

9. Thank George Bush for the tax cuts and other dreaded policy that brought us to this point. nt

[sinkingfeeling]

10. Really? You didn't understand that the SS rate cut was initially for one year, but

got extended through 2012?

[doc03]

18. Oh you poor thing you are grossing $1250 a week and you have

to survive on $25 less. What about the $2600 gift you received over the last two years? I am grossing about $1250 a month on SS I feel your pain.

[patrice]

26. me too!

[RomneyLies]

56. I will personally be paying an additional $187/month more.

I'm more than happy to do so. It's important that this money be collected directly from the FICA amounts and no longer is made up by the General Fund.

As of now, there is no more important issue regarding Social Security than to insure that the Teabaggers can in no way shape or form tie SSDI to the deficit. They could so long as the General Fund was making up the difference due to the holiday. The cannot legitimately make that claim any longer.

[doc03]

61. +1

[ellenfl]

117. i agree. eom

[Floyd_Gondolli]

28. Maybe El Rushbo will give you a loan

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. Could you bring a friend? nt

[WorseBeforeBetter]

65. Grumpy says get over it.

And to pay better fucking attention to what "temporary payroll tax cut" means. Seriously, if you don't understand something so basic, how will you be able to handle your own investments, and be expected to beat or at least keep pace with Wall Street? Be thankful for Social Security, and keep the pressure on our government NOT TO FUCK WITH IT.

[Number23]

132. You're ridiculous but I have to give you SERIOUS props on the user name

You knew right where to go, didn't you?? Well done, sir! Well done.

[Capt. Obvious]

5. No way!

[zappaman]

6. Jeezus...

[CTyankee]

7. I am sorry that pay inequality has hit you so hard, even tho you did everything "right."

I don't blame you for being discouraged.

But we can't allow ourselves to be sucked into the right wing propaganda that SS and Medicare won't be there when we retire. They say that to make you give up on these programs since they know that only be discouraging workers will make them less likely to fight for those programs.

And it will be a fight, a very hard one. The RW has been at this ever since FDR created SS and when LBJ created Medicare and Medicaid. We can't let them do it!

[JustAnotherGen]

14. +1 CTyankee

[davidn3600]

16. Well politicians are not really promising anything to the youth

EVERYONE in Washington keeps saying that social security is safe for "everyone 55 and over."

But what about about the people age 54 and less?

Do we have to pay more money and accept less benefits so the 55+ can have their benefits secured? How can you blame the youth for being upset and being pessimistic?

[CTyankee]

25. I said I didn't blame him for being discouraged. I get that.

However, the impetus behind the sentiment of "it won't be there for me" is a very OLD one. I am old, on SS and Medicare and even I remember that meme going back YEARS! It's RW propaganda, pure and simple. It's trying to get the youth to just give up. It is also a sly way of turning one age group against the other ("Do we have to pay more money and accept less benefits so the 55+ can have their benefits secured?&quot . Don't you see that?

This is a struggle and everyone has to be prepared to fight for these benefits and not allow the RW to take them away! We MAY lose if we fight, but if we DON'T fight, we certainly WILL lose!

[freshwest]

52. The SS won't be there is a GOP meme from the 1950s. It's wishful thinking on their part.

Those who get disabled before the age of 55 will still get the help they need. This is a 'divide and conquer' thread where trolls are meeting, but then there are some good DUers here, too.

[sabrina 1]

34. SS is fine, anyone claiming it won't be there in the furture is lying.

They've been lying about that for 50 years and it's still here, it is solvent, and it has a two trillion dollar surplus and showed a surplus throughout the past few years. If only the Fed Govt budget was run the way SS is run.

But it's not. What you need to worry about is NOT the SS fund. You need to worry about the Fed Govt fund. Mainly because of the Bush Tax cuts which took two trillion dollars out of the economy, and the illegal wars we keep funding.

[dkf]

54. It's the Obama tax cuts now.

I'm not sure what right Dems have to complain about it any more.

[doc03]

22. Well with their attitude it won't be there n/t

[c1kabar]

162. Right Wing propaganda?

S/S and Medicare not available when you retire?
"They" say that to make you give up on these programs?

You're kidding, right? S/S and Medicare are standard deductions. You don't have a choice but to pay them, along with federal taxes (unless you're doing something illegal).

The RW has been at this ever since FDR and LBJ? You DO know that FDR and LBJ were democrats, right - who initiated these programs and grew the government by doing so, don't you?

I'm not following the point you're trying to make.

[CTyankee]

163. Oh, I agree with your arguments entirely. I was just trying to be empathetic but

my focus was on income inequality as a problem, which it is. But it is not excuse not to pay taxes, I agree. However, a good point would be that these programs are there to ameliorate income inequality, not perpetuate it. Something the OP didn't understand...that is, if that was his purpose. I really don't know...

[CJCRANE]

11. What period of work does it cover?

Can someone confirm that these anecdotes are correct...there seems to be some kind of retroactive taxation going on here.

[NCTraveler]

19. If your paycheck is dated 1/1/2013....

it will be taxed at the 2013 rates. It is money paid out in 2013. Doesn't matter when the work was performed, just when it is paid out.

[GeorgeGist]

27. Nope. You're wrong.

[NCTraveler]

45. No, I'm not. nt.

[tammywammy]

46. She's correct. It's based off check date not pay period. n/t

[quakerboy]

64. I don't think so

2012, I had a check issued on January 2nd for work done in completely in December 2011. Those hours are on my 2012 totals, and were not included in my tax paperwork for 2011

[Yo_Mama]

118. Cash basis is the way wages are handled per IRS

You "earn" it when you get the check or electronic deposit, and so the withholding rates in effect as of the date of the check or electronic transfer are the ones that apply.

[Broken_Hero]

39. Our check was hit the same way

for pay period at the end of 2012. We are making about 80 bucks less per pay period, but financially our family is doing well and I don't mind paying more into SS. We got paid yesterday, for pay period ending on December 30th 2012.

[JustAnotherGen]

12. Don't fall for it

You WILL have Social Security - and part of the reason you will is because this tax holiday is over.

I'm a very high earner - let me say it again -


After the payroll tax holiday ended (it was supposed to be one year - not two) - I said a sigh of relief. That shores it up for my mom (she turned 65 in November).

Now - we need to buffer it! Build it up for the next two generations.

You know the easiest way to do this (and get REALLY REALLY mad when you read this) . . . tax me past my first 106.5K a year.

See that - it's a game they are playing. You are a pawn in it. Don't believe it.

Scream! Yell! Storm the damn Bastille and DEMAND they take out payroll taxes on every single cent I make. Scream. Get loud. Scream and get loud right now.


It is a simple solution. I'm not willing to starve our baby boomers and leave them out in the cold. The Payroll Tax Holiday was the single stupidest idea ever. Because it played right into the IndieTeaPublicans destroy the United States Government plan.

But I'm also not willing to throw younger workers under the bus who are getting caught up in this great Reset.

Or wait - wait for it - how about some loan forgiveness . . . if only you would get really really mad and deman they tax me at a higher rate - maybe that could happen.

Not trying to give you are hard time for the sake of giving you a hard time - but Facebook is not the answer. Loud protest and activism are. Here it is 2012 - and I'm back to weekly correspondence with Lautenberg and Menendez triple, double, dog daring them to tax me. I'm even going after Leonard Lance's manhood.

[zappaman]

13. Is this what Rush told you?

And you believe it?

[gollygee]

15. As I said in one of the other threads by people who have already gotten a pay check this year

Though I don't know what kind of pay cycle would have you already getting a paycheck for 2013.

I'm bummed about it too, but this was clearly labeled as a 2-year "holiday" so we would understand how temporary it was intended to be. Would it have been better if we'd never been given the holiday and we'd been paying this amount for the past two years?

[zappaman]

17. Actually, I got this email this morning after yesterday's payday...

"As some of you may have noticed, your pay check is smaller this week. Recent legislative action ended the reduced social security tax that we have enjoyed over the past two year. Let me know if you have any questions.

Have a nice weekend"

[patrice]

23. #1. Some of us have other plans for Medicare & SS; what are yours? #2. This is only the begining of

the current phase of a process that some of us date back to the lost nomination of Henry Wallace in '44. What are your thoughts on that process? #3. What are your solutions; do they or do they not have anything to do with 2014 and if not, why not?

[GeorgeGist]

24. Take the red pill.

[patrice]

32. Could be a false dichotomy; how about both red & blue pills, or a purple pill, or no pill at all? nt

[leftynyc]

29. Do you not understand the word "temporary"

How many more of these moronic posts are we going to get from low post count people?

[Johonny]

30. don't vote for people that want to cut said federal program

and it will exist. Thus your problem is solved.

[Marrah_G]

33. OFFS............

[Glitterati]

35. Your concern is noted

and ignored.

[doc03]

36. Anyone notice all these OPs about the 2% payroll tax have been

started by people with a handful of posts and most of the ones that side with them also have a handful of posts?

[zappaman]

40. Surely it is a coincidence that Rush said the same thing today AND mentioned DU?

[Glitterati]

42. Aha! That explains it

I guess we should all stick around for jury duty for the influx.

[gollygee]

44. ROFL

That explains it.

[doc03]

49. I have noticed a lot of that on the gun issue also, they are either

new here or have been here a while but only post in the gun group.

[yardwork]

58. Fortunately the dittoheads have very short attention spans.

By tomorrow or next week at the outside they will be on to the next atrocity.

[Glitterati]

41. Yes. Over and over.

I just wonder how much they're getting paid to post it.

[billh58]

66. And, a lot of them

frequent the Gungeon too. Very strange...

[WilliamPitt]

37. Derp.

Golly, seeing a lot of these lately.

Golly.

[riqster]

38. Call for the Waaaaambulance.

My first check of 2013 is coming next week, and I don't mind paying into my Social Security trust fund account. Sure, I'll be a few bucks short now, but it makes it more likely to be around when I do retire.

[RomneyLies]

43. What did you major in, underwater basket weaving?

By your own admission, you gross $350/week ($7=0.02*salary).

sounds to me like you just admitted you work at McDonalds, but then again people who work at McDonalds can gross more than $350/week depending upon location.

For those still keeping up on the math, that's $8.75/hour for a 40 hour week. U.S. Federal Minimum wage is $7.25/hour.

[MineralMan]

51. Nice forward of a right-wing screed from facebook!

We've seen it, you know, already.

[BainsBane]

62. how is it right wing?

The GOP have steadfastly opposed the payroll tax holiday. It was part of the Obama stimulus.

[TheKentuckian]

68. Only recently, it was originally their stupid assed idea.

The "Making Work Pay" cut was in the stimulus, this was put into effect when that sunset.

Remember the justification for the flat stupid payroll holiday was "it is the only stimulus the Republican will let pass",

They put up a lil fight but they didn't stop it. I write that off to bullshit and being herded like sheep.

The TeaPubliKlans have pushed this crap for more than a full generation as a back door to weaken Social Security, they let it pass because they wanted to and fits well with the "shrink the pig" tactics that they love so very much.

[BainsBane]

86. That doesn't mean the OP is right-wing

For bring frustrated at seeing his paycheck decrease. That the decrease amounts to only $7 a week reveals how low his income is. He doubtless needs every penny.

[socialist_n_TN]

95. Well, I kind of wonder what kind of attention he's been paying.......

This increase was NOT a surprise. And he's posting on a political web site, so I'm DEFINITELY wondering why he's surprised. This has been talked about on DU for a while now. It makes me suspicious of his motives.

[BainsBane]

99. Most people are unaware there was a holiday at all

And even opponents of the payroll tax holiday here on DU didn't know it expired. The vast majority of the discussion on this site has been about SS and chained CPI. Perhaps it is because this site has an older demographic, but very few care about the impact the end of that holiday has on the working poor and middle class, or the possible effects to the economy.

[socialist_n_TN]

105. Sorry that won't wash either.......

I was aware that the tax HOLIDAY was coming to an end and I'm 61 and make about 15k per year. I've also not only seen it discussed on DU, but I also heard it discussed SEVERAL times on the year end shows on MSNBC. There's no way any politically aware person could have missed it. IT WAS NOT A SECRET!

My check today had the SS hike in it too and I didn't piss and moan about it. I've paid into SS for decades now and paid EXTRA into SS since Reagan's SS tax hike to pay for myself and my generation only to see that money wasted on rich capitalists and unnecessary wars. If anything, the "older demographic" like myself and other boomers should be even more pissed off about the attempt by the RW (and I include fellow traveler Dems in that group) to keep their tax cuts and wars by attempting to renege on what my generation was promised and paid for.

[BainsBane]

109. There is a difference between a secret

And people being under informed. It is a simple fact that many Americans believed the increase in their paychecks was from their employers rather than the President's stimulus. Do you honestly find it difficult to believe Americans are ignorant about policy? Most couldn't name the key members of the President's cabinet.

I'm 51 and will continue to pay payroll taxes until I drop dead because there is no way I could ever afford to retire and keep a roof over my head. Lots of us pay for what we never receive. Directing your animosity against the working poor like the OP shows a lack of solidarity, at the very least. He is not responsible for the inequities in the tax system. He is one of its victims.

[socialist_n_TN]

116. If I thought the OP WAS a member of the "working poor" .......

(like I am) I could possibly be more sympathetic but, sympathetic or not, I would STILL wonder how any politically aware person who can post on a POLITICAL web site could be ignorant of the SS tax holiday in effect for the last two years. Ergo, I'm suspicious of his motives.

As an example, were you unaware of the fact that the extra money in your paycheck was from a 2% SS tax reduction HOLIDAY? And that, as a HOLIDAY, it was scheduled to end?

[BainsBane]

136. Of course I wasn't unaware

But I'm not the average American. I'm an over-educated political junkie.

I calculate that his income is not much more than yours, given that 2% of his gross income is $7 a week. Granted, I suck at math, but it's somewhere in the $18,000 a year range. We can conclude one of two things. 1) either he is not politically aware, 2) or he didn't think through what that change would mean for his own situation., or both. The payroll tax expiration got far less coverage than other aspects of the plan. I see no reason to assume the OP is some right-wing troll. There are millions of Americans who are going to experience the same decrease in income, yourself included. And some will be surprised and pissed off.

[socialist_n_TN]

145. Well handled correctly, this kind of thing might........

get more people involved in THINKING about how politics affects their day to day lives. And that should be a good thing.

In one of Trotsky's books on the October Revolution he mentioned how the entire population discussed and debated politics during the transition months between February and October. And that meant EVERYBODY had a take and, because of the Soviets, everybody had a voice. An INFORMED voice. The REAL left needs to look at this ignorance as an opportunity to start connecting some dots. I certainly don't expect the Democrats to do so. They're too invested in the system and divided government because it relieves them of responsibility to actually DO something about the dysfunction. And of course the Republicans will use it as an attack.

[TheKentuckian]

111. I didn't accuse them of such.

I knew the policy would turn out to be a poison pill and would have some measure of the reaction left, center, and right. I knew too few would notice the little boost and everyone would notice the drop, that is the nature of the beast.

Fools have been hollering about Obama raising their taxes the whole way, without an once of truth. Now a grain of half truth gives them a full tank to go on.

It is what it is.

[BainsBane]

133. Only it was the Republicans who insisted on the increase

And Democrats didn't back the President on keeping it, for reasons that have been made clear in many DU threads.

[TheKentuckian]

157. If I were them, I'd insist to. Time to bust out the poison pill and then play hero in calling to

make it permanent (without the pass through) and eventually use it to kill the program as it starves from funding.

It was a terrible idea championed by Republicans for decades for the exact purpose of weakening the program. There is no plausible argument to negate that.

[BainsBane]

101. Abolition of slavery

Or Free Soil, to be more precise, was also originally a Republican idea. That doesn't make it a bad thing.

I'm continually amazed at how attached many Democrats are to the most regressive tax in our system.

[TheKentuckian]

119. I think the merits of the payroll holiday are a bit less cut and dry than slavery

I'm attached to it, I think it is the #1 we still have the program.

I'd make it more progressive on the payouts and if we could stop the money from being blown on bullshit then I'd remove the cap. I'd pay out too. There would be diminishing returns but always a return and in exchange would give higher payouts to lower incomes.

I'd prefer to have the public look at the payroll tax as an insurance premium though and I want them to have a sense of ownership of these benefits as an investment.

Eventually, without the cap (or even just a much higher one, say 450k) then we might be able to reduce the rates on lower incomes permanently but we'd have to go a long way on how we see taxes and the safety nets as a society before I'd be comfortable making that change and we also would have to make the politicians put away the knives and scalpels.

I'm not against even raising the rate a point for ten years to shut the shortfall shit up.

[BainsBane]

120. For sure

The parallel was more rhetorical than absolute. I very much like your idea of how to fund the program. Raising the cap and making the tax more progressive would be much fairer.

[southernyankeebelle]

156. I would like to thank you for contributing to my social security and medicare. I

did it for previous generations and glady did it. For its up to us to help take care of them. We probably paid for your grandparents and parents before long. Stop the complaining. If you don't like it just think who would have to take care of your parents when they get old and sick. On your wages you get now, how do you think it will go then. I glady pay for your grandparents and parents so we can all help our families. That is the way of God. Stop thinking like a tea bagger who is selffish. They get upset and take the bennies. I got news for you all. If you don't like it then when it comes to receiving your benefit don't take it. Free it up to the people who glady put their money in the pot. I know I sure can't afford for my son to take care of me.

[pinboy3niner]

57. Official White House response:

[Evergreen Emerald]

158. Hahaha

You are funny!

[msanthrope]

60. Your concern is noted. Please feel free to share more of your concerns, and enjoy your stay. nt

[Kalidurga]

63. Too much fail in one post...

There should be a rule against this.

1. You cracked open your pay stub. Really, no direct deposit? Seriously weird. I haven't seen a pay stub since 2007.

2. If facebook is talking to you. You probably should get back in bed. You are still seriously ill. Unless this happens all the time even when you don't have a stomach virus. In that case, perhaps you need to seek some other kind of help.

3. It's good to note that the system is unfair. But, it seems like you are blaming the wrong end of the problem.

4. Seriously what did you major in? Most the jobs I have looked at that require a 4 year degree pay a minimum of $40,000 a year. Unless you are working at a non profit then you could make a few thousand less, but it still approaches that amount.

5. I doubt you ever come back to respond to this thread, in fact you may have already gotten your pizza.

[Sadiedog]

85. Sorry but you wrong with point #4.

I have my B.A. degree, soon to be a requirement for my position, and I make only $20,000 a year. But I do have summers off! That my trade off.

[socialist_n_TN]

96. Also wrong about #1.......

I don't direct deposit. I still get a paper check and consequently, a paystub.

[Kalidurga]

100. No I am not wrong about #1

I don't get a paper check or pay stub and haven't since 2007. I didn't say this applies to everyone, but it is more the norm now.

[Ikonoklast]

67. Does this stuff work for you in real life?

Or do you get called on it all the time?

You aren't fooling anyone.

[Glassunion]

69. You don't make $7 less

You make the exact same amount.

It was a holiday. After every holiday you eventually have to go back to work.

I'm sorry for your situation, and have been in your shoes. If there was no holiday you would have been paying that $7 for the past 2 years.

[SidDithers]

70. Sure you did...

Sid

[malaise]

81. +1,000

[Mrs. Overall]

71. Nice try, Bob.

[Veridicus]

72. Long time lurker

I have been enjoying this site for a while but never had the urge to post anything. I'm a quiet guy, but I am just appalled by everyones reaction. We have people that we need to take care of as a society and here you are complaining about a few dollars out of every paycheck. SHAME ON YOU. There are people that wouldn't eat without EBTs, wouldn't have a roof over their heads, wouldn't be able to communicate to others without the lifeline cell phone, the list goes on and on. They would be abandoned, no one would care for them. It's our responsibility to pay our share to ensure they don't go without. All for a few measly dollars out of each of your paychecks. SHAME ON YOU.

I'm going to go back to lurking now. SHAME ON YOU!!!~

[Mrs. Overall]

73. Great post. You should lurk less and post more.

[gkhouston]

74. Welcome to DU.

[uppityperson]

75. Welcome to DU and indeed.

[hrmjustin]

78. I think we need more like you. Please post more and welcome my friend to DU.

[Veridicus]

89. Jerk

Why are you saying "Hey FUCK YOU ass hole!" to me. I'm not one of the greedy ones complaining because they had a few dollars taken out of their paycheck. Honestly, and I mean HONESTLY, we should all be paying at least 50% of our income to make sure others don't go without. We live greedy lifestyles that are so far above the lifestyles of the vast majority of the world. After we are all on equal footing we need to ensure no one on this planet goes without. Once everyone has exactly the same situation then and only then can we truly look anyone else in the eye without either envy, greed, fear, guilt or any other feeling but love of our fellow man. We should be lobbying our Democratic leaders and demanding they increase taxes. We can adjust, families all over the world somehow live on less than a dollar a day but we can't manage to live on what we make? We don't need big houses, or cars, or multiple TVs, or the latest cell phone, etc etc etc. How can you judge me in such a harshly way when you live a life of excess and deprive others? I single you because nearly each and every American does that has any type of meaningful employment, and you called me an ass hole. SHAME!

Our leaders see the big picture, they know what is best for us and we believe in them or they would have been voted out. It happens every election cycle and clearly there are more democrats than anyone else in Washington D.C. now is our time to gut this capitalist society we live in and make everyone truly equal. You may have to go without some of your excessive luxuries... whoopity do.

[Veridicus]

90. Laters

I'm going home for the weekend. I'll be back lurking on Monday. Remember to donate to worthy causes and increase your payroll deductions to help our government succeed in affecting true change to our society. Every dollar helps someone in need.

[Glassunion]

92. Wow I'm honestly sorry. Did you read the body of my post?

I was (in a backwards way) commending you on your post and asking you to NOT lurk, because you will add to our discussions here.

It was a compliment hidden beneath an attempt at humor.

[truth2power]

112. See my post, below. eom

[arthritisR_US]

121. After reading your apology I went and read the

the post at issue, I see you were trying to be facetious but I had to read it twice to appreciate it. Emoticons would have helped, I think. It's hard to convey our true intent sometimes through this medium. I know, I have made some doozies and it has put on some folks ignore list. Your intent was pure so keep on trying and that was a damn fine apology

[Veridicus]

161. My apologies

I'm a passionate guy which is why I usually don't talk much, or post in this case.

[Vanje]

94. Hey Verdicus

Hope to see you around DU.
Don't let one rude poster ruin your first posting experience.

[Marrah_G]

103. he was paying you a compliment

Go back and read his post. He was being playful and saying you have alot to contribute and that it's to bad you hadn't contributed sooner because you have a lot to add to the discussions.

[truth2power]

110. I'm gonna out myself. I was the only juror who voted to leave the above hidden post alone,

because IT WAS SARCASM!!! Holy Moly!

Yes, it was shocking, but sarcasm is often quite acerbic. Did anyone actually read it?

[arthritisR_US]

124. I got it but I had to read it twice because the

first part wasn't jiving with what followed. I sure can be thick

[MoonchildCA]

113. Okay, I don't post here much either...

...but something is fishy about this post.
It sounds like what a right-winger thinks liberals want the world to be like. Equal distribution, no one needs to be rich and "have things."

"Our leaders see the big picture, and know what is best for us and we believe them."

I mean, c'mon. Seriously?

I'm not buying it. Sorry... But I do give you an E for effort.

[arthritisR_US]

125. Verrrrry interesting

[MoonchildCA]

129. How so?

I can't tell if you think I may be on to something... or if you think I'm off the mark.

I mean, the guy (?) may be in earnest, but the way some things were worded just did not sit right.

[arthritisR_US]

135. Definitely the former...

Most of us feel the rich should pay their fair share and that for the past decades the load has been carried on the backs of the middle class. That there has been such unfairness to the point where the middle class are being obliterated. That being said no one has advocated for outright taking the wealth from wealthy and distributing those to have nots. No one posts about banning capitalism for a Marxist ideology.

You pointed out a number of key phrases that got me thinking... The old spidie senses got tingling, albeit, mine suck at best!

[Barack_America]

127. Great post. Don't worry, he's almost certainly a troll.

Hope you come back and join in soon!

[aandegoons]

76. Stop voting republican and you will get social security.

Problem solved.

[NYC_SKP]

77. Just in case of a self-delete:

bobclark86 (125 posts)

View profile
So I opened my pay stub this morning... [View all]
It's my first day back to work this year (I've been sick with a stomach bug). I see my pay stub on my desk, so I crack it open...

And on my computer, Facebook asks me, "How's it going, Bob?"

My response:

"It's going kinda shitty, Facebook. I'm still sick, but decided to crawl back into work, and I just learned that after a year at my job, I now make $7 a week LESS than I did, just so I can pay more into a federal program that won't exist when I'm old enough to use it. But we can keep tax breaks for people making almost half a million dollars a year (or what I'll make in almost TWO MOTHERFUCKING DECADES!). Congress can go fuck themselves..."

Between this and the docking of my pay because my job (using my degree from a state school) can't fund my college loans, I'm making about what I did when I was at McDonald's in high school ($6.75 after taxes). Any tax refund at the federal or state level will go bye-bye before I even get it. I figure in about 60 years I should be paid off at my current rate of repayment. Oh, BTW, I've never had a credit card and my car was $450.00 cash out of a guy's yard, so I'm not living the high life on credit, either.

So... what the fuck is the point of all this? Seriously, I'm asking: what the FUCK is the point?

Don't ask me, I just work here...

[jpak]

79. Dear Delicate Flower - you are now paying the same payroll tax you did in HS

poor baby

[wedding16]

80. Spam deleted by uppityperson (MIR Team)

[michaelpdhart]

82. Why..

Here is a simple thought, stop complaining. If you are not happy with your situation sitting around on a web forum nagging is not going to change a single thing in your life. Maybe.....just maybe, if redirected your efforts to your Presidents "Change" theory you might have more to show for yourself. Another thing, if your making $6.75 ("after taxes&quot with a college degree you should look for a new job, and before you say it, yes there are jobs out there, but you will have to use effort to find them, it wont be handed over like the EBT your $7 tax increase is paying for.

[notadmblnd]

104. The FICA tax withholding is different than the taxes on your income.

Last edited Fri Jan 4, 2013, 11:06 PM - Edit history (1)

The increase (if you believe Grover Norquest, wasn't really an increase. It was just the expiration of a tax cut) was in the FICA withholding not the income tax deduction. What we all call FICA taxes- is really just your insurance premium on your social security insurance policy. That means it goes directly into the Social Security trust fund and is used only for SS benefits. It does not go into the general fund and never gets dispersed to programs such as food stamps or welfare. Okay?


Now that you know that, I'm going to show you a little math. Our premiums just increased by 2%. If you multiply 500.00 x .02, it comes to 10.00. So someone whining about 25.00 less in their paycheck is making about 1250.00 a week. That's about 5k a month! Now I don't know about you, but I find it hard to believe that spending 25.00 a week less is really going to cause a hardship.

[Yo_Mama]

122. Not everyone gets paid weekly, you know

Two week and even four week pay periods are not uncommon. It holds down costs.

[notadmblnd]

128. but you can still do the math. 1500 every two weeks is 3k a month

which would make the insurance premium withheld 15.00 a week. If one is only paid 1500.00 a month, then the increase is about 7.00 a week.

it doesn't matter when you get paid, I just broke it down weekly. 7 dollars at 4 weeks =28 dollars a month. 15.00 wk x 4 = 60 month. 30 wk x 4 = 120.00 and so on and so on........

[Yo_Mama]

138. I'm disputing your allegation that the $25 doesn't mean anything

because it is based on a false conclusion!

If the person is paid every two weeks at $1,250 gross, total annual taxable income is $32,500.

Single, no dependents = 2013 est. tax of $2,978 leaving $29,522. Current FICA (6.2% plus 1.45% = 7.65%) is $2,486.25, leaving $27,035.75. Then there's state tax, which probably averages at 5% for this income. Subtract another 1,625 leaving $25,410.75.

In most states there are some other small taxes, such as UI, but they vary. The upshot is that the person has $2,117 or thereabouts a month to live on. For a young single that's quite doable, but the catch is that many of these individuals have high student loans plus car loans, so it is not rare for them to be paying loans of $600 - $800 a month. They can usually cut the student loan payment down further with one of the government programs, but that doesn't rebate interest so they are foolish to do it unless they really can't pay. They'll pay much more in total.

It would not be at all rare for a young renter with this income to actually have living money of about $400 a month once medical, auto, rent, utilities, gas and all loans are paid. So $50 a month would be a material change.

Of course, if you have kids it gets much tighter, but you pay less federal income tax.

I'm just disputing your assumption that this amount is negligible. For many persons, it is not. It may be 2% of gross, but it is actually a much higher percentage of discretionary income, which is why tax increases on low to moderate-income households affect consumer spending quite noticeably.

[notadmblnd]

146. I didn't say that it didn't mean anything.

It could mean coffee at starbucks for a week. It could be eliminating someones weekly manicure or monthly visits to the gym or a movie night. But for someone making enough money to have 25.00 a week withheld and then claims that they are suffering a serious hardship for it? Nah, I don't buy it.


I'm more inclined to believe that someone making 250.00 a week and missing an additional 7.50 a week would be hurt more. However, someone making 250.00 a week with dependents to support are usually eligible for other government assistance too. My son who makes minimum wage and still lives at home isn't going to miss it. He's only going to lose a run to the fast food restaurant. But he knows he can still get a meal at home. And if my son was paying student loans and driving a new car that he had to make payments on, I'd tell him that he was making foolish decisions with his money.

[Marrah_G]

160. Few things Mike....

His 7 dollars is not ever going to the payment of EBT.

People on food stamps also work, they work hard, they just don't make enough because the CEO's refuse to pay a living wage so they can hoard more money.

Being on food stamps is not something people should be made to feel shame over.

The ones who should feel the shame are the money hoarders who care only about themselves and their need to have more money then they could ever spend AND those people who are so foolish that they fall for the propaganda pitting them against poor people so they don't notice the ones at the top ruining our society with their greed.

Be angry at the top 1%, they are the ones that are screwing you over. Not some poor single mother on food stamps.

The welfare mother driving the new caddy is a myth.

[riverbendviewgal]

83. you must related some guy named Rush

Did you call him yesterday.

[still_one]

87. That increase you notice is because of the so-called tax holiday and is independent of the cliff

It was a temporary thing

As far as your assessment that social security won't be there for you, that is the r/w talking point the corporate media and repukes have been trying to propagandize people with so they can privatize it.

Social security is not the problem

[randr]

88. Planted post

better know as "compost".

[still_one]

91. Absolutely. First sign, hit and run. The op did not respond further

[Glitterati]

98. From the transcript of Rush Limbaugh's show today

Anyway, this began a thread at Democrat Underground with all kinds of ticked off Democrats, livid Democrats, and what was hilarious about it was that over half of them were blaming George Bush for it, when it was Obama. It was all Obama! Obama and the Democrats engineered -- and the Republicans went along with this -- the payroll tax cut, which was a temporary partial tax cut on the employee side, but it was restored with the fiscal cliff deal. So paychecks beginning this year, first week of the year, are smaller. And you should see the thread of all these ticked off Democrats who had no idea they were gonna be paying more in taxes. And as part of the thread, there are people trying to explain to them what happened, and some of them understand it, and some of them don't, but they're all livid.

The Rushpublicans are just trying to make sure Rush doesn't embarrass himself when these kinds of posts aren't here.

[still_one]

139. Thanks for the context

[Blue_In_AK]

147. My thought, as well.

Too dense to be a real DUer. Anyone who has been paying attention knows the payroll tax cut was temporary.

[JaneyVee]

93. BobClark, You should get a Union job so they can negotiate higher wages.

[socialist_n_TN]

97. As long as there's capitalism there will be SERIOUS income inequality......

If you want more income inequality, we need a socialist system in place. And you won't get a socialist system by voting for either Republicans or Democrats.

That said, I don't think you were being honest in this post.

[backwoodsbob]

102. yep

my check was over 100 short.

Grats all you *lets go over the cliff* people.

[roamer65]

154. People were calling it a salary cut at work yesterday when the email went out.

We get less but the rich get more. Wonderful fucking country.

[REP]

108. It's January 4th. You worked one day this year and already got paid for it?

Unbelievable.

[julian09]

114. Demand a refund from college, for the loan.

[Rider3]

115. Yep

I'm starting to get used to this. I think it's the New Normal for us. We're fucked.

[BlueCheese]

123. It was always a temporary tax cut.

Just like the temporary tax cuts for people making $400,000. And the temporary estate tax cut. Which are now permanent. Wait, what?

[Barack_America]

126. Hey dude, tell Rush hi!! Better yet, on second thought...

tell him to fuck off.

[bobclark86]

130. You guys can all go fuck yourselves...

I wasn't complaining about helping old people. I would never say I mind paying taxes (actually, I'm quite fine with it... I got free and reduced lunches in school for a few years, so I know what it's like to be on the short end of the stick). I don't vote Republican. I don't listen to Rush (I do occasionally watch O'Reily only when I've had a particularly bad day and want to throw things at the television rather than the old ladies who let their dogs crap on my lawn without cleaning it up... but I notice I rarely see anything on Fuck sNooze when I flip past it because the "buy gold now!" ads always seem to be on). I'm low-income, so the GOP will never give a fuck about me. Besides, who in their right mind would want them to .

I don't rack up debt and I don't buy frivolous shit with what money I have after paying my bills (since I'm looking to net a whopping $13,000 this year with a 50-hour-a-week job unless I sell my soul). I went to college, I vote Democrat and I work my ass off in a field where I can actually helps people from time to time, so I do occasionally get that good feeling in my stomach that makes the generic mac and cheese with ground beef I had for dinner taste a bit better (I did buy the fancy ketchup last time, though). Even though I'm agnostic, I still followed the Golden Rule that Jesus guy laid out pretty well -- I don't make and deal meth like many of my neighbors, I don't tell women's vaginae what they can do and I stick up for the little guy when he's getting his ass kicked.

I'm just wondering what the fuck the point of trying is anymore. What's the point to going to college and working in a career that requires it if I'm better off working at a fast food joint. It's apparent nobody gives a shit about people like me, but when some rich trust-fund baby cries to their uncle/daddy the GOP congressman when the phrase "capital gains tax increase" is uttered, it damn near takes the country to the brink. Eh, I'm not on welfare, but I don't have a yacht, so I don't count.

But hey. Apparently I'm a big Rush fan and some RW troll.

Seriously. You all can go fuck off. Not like you'll actually read this anyway.

[still_one]

141. First of all, the increase you saw was due to the tax holiday expiring. That so-called holiday

actually hurt social security system, and should not have been done in the first place. It was never expected to be permanent

The Social Security payroll tax holiday, enacted in 2010 to put more money in consumers' wallets and stimulate the economy, was not extended into 2013.

Whose "wonderful" idea it was to take money out of the social security fund to pay for it, just like they did for wars based on lies, just in a different way

Anyway, the arguments you presented, and the lack of context, plus that you did not respond to the criticism until the next day made people wonder if this was not just a R/W talking point.

It should also be noted that regardless of what responses to your post are, I do not see the thread getting locked or hidden, which indicates that the post whether responders agree or not with it, is at least legitimate for discussion

but most important, you have responded in this thread against the critics, and that is what counts

[Fumesucker]

144. The whirling DU propeller blades, you didn't see them

I've read your OP several times now and I can give you the benefit of the doubt.

As you just found out, DU can be a howling mob at times, the tendency to pile on is the most unpleasant thing about the place.

I've written about this before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1024911

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1653852

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1180400#1180547

[roamer65]

149. Liberals have about as much compassion for low wage earners as conservatives.

They just hide their contempt better.

To get any real sympathy for the plight of those in poverty and low-wage jobs, you have to look to us socialists.

The just and right thing to do would have been to remove the FICA withholding cap and make everyone pay 4.2% everyone pay it on goddamn red cent they earn.

Betcha Senator Bernie Sanders (a socialist) supports this idea.

[lumberjack_jeff]

151. There are only two possible explanations for your op. Trolling or ignorance.

As has been posted upthread, you're paying the same 7.65% that you paid prior to 2011. The SS tax holiday was always going to expire, and it's a damn good thing it did, because now Social Security [font color="green" size="20" face="times"]WILL[/font] be there when you retire or become disabled.

[amandabeech]

131. This surprise will be remembered in 2014.

We better get damage control out there right away and position them for the long haul.

For many people, it is the dollar amount in the take-home pay, and not the type of tax that reduced said take-home pay.

[roamer65]

148. We need a party and a President with the balls to get the FICA withholding cap removed.

If we had that, the FICA tax could have remained at 4.2 or even dropped a bit and SS would have enough money for the next 75 years.

I have no problem with capping it on the employer side, but remove that goddamn cap on the employee side. People making $1 million a year should pay this tax on every goddamn red cent of it.

You are right amandabeech, 2014 is not going to be a good year for any of the main parties.

[jillan]

137. I take it that you are one of those 'the glass is half empty' types.

Lighten up before you pop a blood vessel.

[we can do it]

142. Time to call the WAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!

[Skittles]

153. did bobclark call us?

[we can do it]

159. omg, thanks for that picture!

[librechik]

150. no, getting that paltry $ taken out insures you WILL have SS later

because math. Sorry you might miss a latte this week. Here's a hankie.

[Skittles]

152. you're gonna be disapponted, bobclark

even that stupid asshole Rush Limbaugh is savvy enough not read THIS one