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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Were 10,000 Nazis Given Safe Haven in US? Kinda creepy, where are they now?
Nazis Were Given ‘Safe Haven’ in U.S., Report Says
Perhaps the report’s most damning disclosures come in assessing the Central Intelligence Agency’s involvement with Nazi émigrés. Scholars and previous government reports had acknowledged the C.I.A.’s use of Nazis for postwar intelligence purposes. But this report goes further in documenting the level of American complicity and deception in such operations.
The Justice Department report, describing what it calls “the government’s collaboration with persecutors,” says that O.S.I investigators learned that some of the Nazis “were indeed knowingly granted entry” to the United States, even though government officials were aware of their pasts. “America, which prided itself on being a safe haven for the persecuted, became — in some small measure — a safe haven for persecutors as well,” it said.
The report also documents divisions within the government over the effort and the legal pitfalls in relying on testimony from Holocaust survivors that was decades old. The report also concluded that the number of Nazis who made it into the United States was almost certainly much smaller than 10,000, the figure widely cited by government officials.
The Justice Department has resisted making the report public since 2006. Under the threat of a lawsuit, it turned over a heavily redacted version last month to a private research group, the National Security Archive, but even then many of the most legally and diplomatically sensitive portions were omitted. A complete version was obtained by The New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14nazis.html?_r=0
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MightyMopar
(735 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Probuably the us took a lot of them in as they were avowed anti communists and that was the next menace on the horizon and they had skill sets that the us wanted. Hopefully none were involved with the camps etc rather tbey were scientists and military personnel.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)People who didn't necessarily like the Nazis often felt like they had no choice but to join in order to avoid persecution. Ferry Porsche, the inventor of the Volkswagen(which was first thought of shortly before the end of the Weimar period, btw), was one of them. And there's many other examples out there as well.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And their ideas are still alive and well in our current Republican Party.
On edit, but if you were 20 in 1940, you were born in 1920. That makes you 92 at this time. Pretty harmless. But those you influenced are still around.
Some of our nation's excessive paranoia may be due to the influence of NAZIs like Reinhard Gehlen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen
Only history will tell for sure just what his role was in providing us information and informing our ideas about Eastern Europe after WWII.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)
ileus
(15,396 posts)now...
tritsofme
(19,887 posts)
samsingh
(18,418 posts)nazis were protected by the west and allowed to live happy lives after the nazis butchered so many innocent ones.
its disgusting
Igel
(37,516 posts)The youngest was in her 60s.This was in 2002-04.
Some went weepy when they remembered Stalin.
Most were card-carrying members of the Communist Party. This got them in serious trouble when they applied for citizenship.
Only one had the temerity to say that she was a "kommunist"--and glared at the others when they just stared at her.
For her "communist" had to do with justice, and it was all about her. She refused to believe what had happened to others when she was a girl, if for no other fact than her family benefited from the Communist oppression of children who were, by any sane standard, innocents. She had to assume that those purged were really bad, because she benefited from the purges.
For her "communist" meant that she and her family got what they deserved and thought it was all unfairly taken away from her. She was pissed that she had worked and been promised a pension, and the younger generation didn't want to pay for it. She was a hero and was bitter because she wasn't honored. That she had sacrificed so much and, in the end, was told that her beliefs were mistaken. They couldn't be. If the purges and Stalin's "minor flaws" were seriously bad, if the system was corrupt, then she'd lived for a lie.
She even tried to say that we Americans were all still trying to dupe her. That Brighton, NY--a berg on the fringes of Rochester--was a model city, a Potyomkin village. She was a loon. But even then, she was a harmless delusional paranoid.
The other card-carrying communists were in the party often because it was all but required. Or they joined because it was the thing to do. Some said they were naive or duped and they believed in it when they were young.
I thought at the time it was unreasonable to say that Communist Party members who had basically abandoned their membership when it was no longer useful had to run into unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles. (This is different from abandoning the membership when it became harmful.)
Same for Nazis. Or any other society in which membership is essentially coerced.
samsingh
(18,418 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)you make can be turned around, you know; the people 'purged' when the communists took power were the people who'd been happy to 'purge' the general population before to hold on to their own power & privilege. the woman may have benefited from people being jailed & killed -- but so did those people benefit from people like the woman being jailed & killed before the revolution.
most soviet citizens in fact didn't belong to the party, btw.
By 1933, the party had approximately 3.5 million members but as a result of the Great Purge party membership was cut down to 1.9 million by 1939.[citation needed] In 1986, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union had over 19 million members or approximately 10% of the USSR's adult population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Soviet_Union#Membership
that the people you met belonged to the party is an indicator of their class status within the ussr -- basically the equivalent of the upper middle-class to upper class here -- supervisory & management types, generally speaking.
which doesn't mean they were necessarily born into that class; the revolution opened up lots of opportunity for people of lowly origins who would not have had that opportunity otherwise. kruschev's father was a peasant & low-level worker; kruschev herded goats as a child, e.g.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)A lot of the people were NAZIs by choice. They hated the NAZIs but also loved them.
When I lived in those countries for a number of years, I often heard the refrain that at least Hitler brought full employment. The Germans were less anti-Jewish and better informed about what happened in WWII than the Austrians.
Sorry to say that, but that was my experience. It is probably different now. The WWII generation, those who were adults during that war, are now in their 90s. Those who were teenagers are in their 80s.
But their children . . . . ?
movonne
(9,623 posts)
jmg257
(11,996 posts)jody
(26,624 posts)
Dash87
(3,220 posts)in order to steal Nazi technology and scientific brain power.
No Compromise
(373 posts)Wasn't Big Pharma testing on people in east Germany even until the 80's?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Nazi Germany was a lot like the USSR. It wasn't just military types in the party. If you wanted to be a mailman, a teacher, an actor, a newspaper reporter, or hold pretty much any other job that was either government funded, or exerted some sort of social influence on the people, you were essentially required to join the Nazi Party. Countless Germans signed the cards and became "Nazi's" simply because it was the only way they could keep their jobs. If you're a first grade teacher in rural Bavaria, and the local party head walks in and says that you're going to be fired and banned from teaching if you don't sign the membership card and take the oath, a lot of people will just cave and do it.
When the Soviets took over East Germany, countless academics and other "paper Nazi's" fled west to escape them. It had been less than 15 years since the Soviet Union had completed its last Great Purge and killed thousands of its OWN academics, and deported tens of thousands more to the gulags. They knew that, as German academics, they faced an even grimmer fate. So they fled. Most just ended up in West Germany, but many fled the country entirely. Because the rest of Europe didn't want anything to do with Germans at the time, they ended up here in the U.S.
This is also why a general amnesty was granted to Germans who had been members of the party, if they had not personally profited from it, been involved in its leadership or administration, or worked for its military.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)who participated in the murder of Jews living here for decades. And even when discovered, it has been difficult to get them thrown out of the country. They had families and jobs here and most of them lived under different names. I wouldn't be surprised if many or all of them are Right Wingers. Families of such people were most like raised to hate the 'left' as they would view this country.
Much has come out even before these latest revelations about the Nazis who managed to live here until they were finally discovered. The effort to get them become more urgent over the past number of years due to the fact that ARE growing old and feeble and have never paid for the crimes they participated in.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Von Braun was a member of the SS even though he stated he was forced to join for political reasons. Von Braun also knew slave labor picked from the Buchenwald concentration camp worked in the factory producing parts for his V-2 rocket program. More people died producing the rockets in his factory than those killed by the rockets themselves. The US took in the German scientists because of what they knew and what they could produce. Quite simply, we were willing to sacrifice our stated ideals for the sake of technological progress in the field of rocketry.
Additionally, we took German Major General Reinhard Gehlen who served as chief of the German Army's military intelligence unit on the Eastern Front in World War II. Immediately following the end of the war, he was recruited by the United States military to set up a spy ring known as the Gehlen Group to be directed against the Soviet Union. The Gehlen Group employed up to 10,000 former SS, SD and Wehrmacht officers, all seeking revenge on the Soviet Union. This spy organization later became a branch of the CIA after 1947 and drove many of our beliefs about the capabilities of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Gehlen eventually became head of the West German intelligence apparatus and served as the first president of the Federal Intelligence Service until 1968. Again, we sacrificed our ideals for the sake of gathering what amounted to be tainted/slanted intelligence.
And yes....they would have made very good right-wingers in the US, and would have been accepted with open arms by those who supported the Nazis during the early years of WWII, people like Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker among many others.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)lately and have been shocked to find out how few of the genocidal murderers were ever held accountable. I had always assumed that we made sure those who engaged on any level in that horrendous crime, had been punished.
But reading the stories of many of the survivors, people who were there, it became clear that a very small number of the guilty were punished and the effort to do so was weak at best.
I did not know those details you just described but have read that these monsters were allowed to function for the Government here and intended to do some more research on that. I find it appalling that we are told how 'moral' the US was when really it was not when it came to Nazi Germany.
One account I read of a personal story was by Ron Wyden's father who was a teenager in Germany during the rise of Hitler. His family got out, but he went back later to try to find one of his high school friends and gave a very good accounting of things were when he returned during WW11 to help, I believe he was in the US Military.
It seems to me the more I read, the more what I thought I knew was not the case.
What you just described is shameful. Seems to me it was probably just an excuse to protect those monsters as I'm certain we have people right here in the US who were just as capable of doing what these people did.
Thanks for your post, this all needs to be known. It doesn't serve this country well to keep the population believing what we grew up believing, because an awful lot of it was not true.
I also would not be surprised if our 'Cold War' wasn't heavily influenced by these monsters who most likely never altered their beliefs in their own superiority.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)And we wonder why they have fascist beliefs.
monmouth3
(3,871 posts)OldEurope
(1,282 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)they raised families here. No wonder we have so many insane right wingers in this country. We take in the 'refugees' from all the dictatorships we supported also when their own people finally get rid of them.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thank you for putting the truth into words.
Fla Dem
(27,620 posts)Even if the "Nazi" grandparents are now dead, their children and grandchildren are now adults. The ideology would have been passed down. Would make very good RW ideologues.
No Compromise
(373 posts)who put more into positions of power.
Just like the Nazis, they infiltrate everywhere, every organization.
They become our church leaders, our boy scout leaders, our coaches...
11 Bravo
(24,310 posts)I agree.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)There, they helped fuel the Cold and various hout wars for power and profit.
Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x872755
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)Many of the Germans/Nazis let in after the fall of Germany were members of the so-called "Gehlen Organization." These were Abwher and SS members who were possessed of intelligence knowledge, or who were running agents inside of the Soviet Union. While most of these individuals were not directly involved in the operation of the camps, it would be disingenuous to say the had no knowledge of the activities. Most of these people were at least nominally Nazis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)This stuff isn't generally taught in school, and it is always good to raise awareness.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)But the information has been out there for those willing to look.
Another resource (for those wo are interested):
The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group
http://www.archives.gov/iwg/
Since 1999, the IWG has declassified and opened to the public an estimated 8 million pages of documents, including 1.2 million pages of OSS records; 74,000 pages of CIA name and subject files; more than 350,000 pages of FBI subject files; and nearly 300,000 pages of Army intelligence files. The once secret records are helping to shape our understanding of the Holocaust, war crimes, World War II and postwar activities of U.S. and Allied intelligence agencies.
The IWG has issued two interim reports to Congress (in October 1999 and March 2002), and it issues news releases and occasional newsletters, and has published a book. Several publications are forthcoming.
Cliff Arnebeck
(305 posts)Long live investigative journalism! Our chance for democracy depends upon it.
Cliff Arnebeck
rl6214
(8,142 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)were brought over to help us with our propaganda efforts in Eastern Europe. At least a few of these became writers , yes, for the Republican Party.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
Warpy
(114,595 posts)on the buzz bombs. The country had nukes but needed a way to deliver them, so the buzz bomb program which led to the space race was extremely important. The USSR also gave safe haven to the ones we missed.
Whether they were good Nazis or just people who did what they were told because they wanted to avoid the concentration camps is moot. Most of them lived long lives and died in bed.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)I don't want to go into any details, as his sons are still alive and use the same surname.
Damn, he was a creepy old bastard. Had a basement library full of memorabilia. The US brought him through Argentina, following the war. He had been in SS Intelligence.
zappaman
(20,627 posts)
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)They had little choice about being Nazis, and he was Hitler Youth at an age when he knew little of the facts or the outside reality. He was lividly anti-Hitler. And his daughter married into the most prominent Jewish family in a very large city.
No Compromise
(373 posts)"They had little choice about being Nazis, and he was Hitler Youth at an age when he knew little of the facts or the outside reality"
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
Claybrains
(132 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 6, 2013, 03:10 AM - Edit history (1)
My mother's family were all doctors, judges, ambassadors, diplomats, and my great-great uncle was The German Admiral and Secretary of State of the German Imperial Navy Office, Alfred von Tirpitz. Many members of her family were arrested and tortured My mother and I visit Germany every couple of years. She would point out the house where there was a Nazi that was stationed in a house near them to keep watch over my Grosspapa, since he was a doctor and state judge. You either complied or else. I went to her 60th high school reunion with her, and most of their stories were of happy memories before the war. They never saw the jews being carted off. Not at all of what I had expected, but the Russians were a different matter.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Which is very ironic.
Aside from the fact that she was German and had lived in Germany during the WWII time period, my grandparents called her a Nazi when they were having some sort of political or philosophical argument. It wasn't like how some people called Bush a Nazi. It was a literal slam to her background, which she never denied.
She died during the 90's and was quite old.
ellie
(6,975 posts)Or did the XFiles make that up?
B2G
(9,766 posts)interesting if true.
No Compromise
(373 posts)working on manchurian candidates, just look at some of our crazy tea party Congressmen, with those beady eyes where you can tell they are not all there.
librechik
(30,957 posts)was it a good thing? IMO, the Nazis we got were too influential in the US to be healthy for our democracy. And we will never know the true limits of their influence, because many of them had a secret agenda to rule us--and they may have succeeded. As Phil Dick speculated, the Germans actually won World War II and we can't even tell the difference.