Something fishy about the economy.

[kelliekat44]

I live in the DC metro area and have family in Philly, Delaware, Baltimore, Cali, and Virginia. They are all seeing what I am seein g when I go shopping. Hardly any parking spaces at the malls, heavy traffic everywhere with jams and accidents, all the fast food places doing brisk business, good restaurants with waiting lines, people spending money everywhere. Home Depots with hardly any parking in the huge lots, Costcos and Sam's stores crowded. Road construction adding to traffic jams, lots of housing starts and lots of new autos on the road and a hell of a lot of SUVs. What's up with that? Is someone lying to us about the economy? The three people in my family who lost jobs two years ago are all employed making fairly good wages...one in a temp job, though. What am I missing?

[RedstDem]

1. I live in nova, and i see the same things

the areas you mentioned are pretty similar to here, so I'm thinking its not the case in other outbound areas, like west (by god) Virginia for example

[southernyankeebelle]

2. If you listen to the republicans and right wing radio and fox news they are putting out

bad forecasts. Best to believe what you see and not believe what you hear. Remember Obama according to the right was going to lose the election. We see how that worked out for them. The people who tune in to the were in shock.

[A HERETIC I AM]

18. Many DUer's say the same thing.

Hell, reading some posters on this website, you would think not a single progressive makes over eight bucks an hour.

[southernyankeebelle]

43. There are many who do. But there are many teabaggers who are in the lower middle class and

working poor. They always vote against their own interest. I know my daughter-in-laws grandparents are republicans and they receive medicare, social security and food stamps. She bitches because it isn't enough and blames Obama. As if he was the one who sets the rates. My goodness.

[BainsBane]

3. I think it may be regional

In MN the unemployment rate is 5.7%. I see the same things you do. Some parts of the country seem to be having a tougher time.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

4. All entertainment venues in DFW area packed with vehicles almost

every single night except Sunday.

No evidence here of a bad economy and hasn't been since the so-called recession began.

[elleng]

5. Not missing anything;

economy's been growing since President Obama took office, but at a slower pace than past recoveries, so many still looking for work. Fact is many old jobs in 'old' industries, certain types of manufacturing, no longer available here, so restructuring taking place.

[Trajan]

6. Economy seems to be humming along nicely, indeed ....

Except when the GOP assholes start preaching gloom and doom, threatening to take the whole ball of wax with them as they demand absolute acquiescence to their extreme demands .....

They are determined to MAKE the economy dive if they don't get their way ....

Obama and the Dems should give them enough rope while also communicating to the American people how the republicans are going to screw up the economy, again, building up a natural public bias against them ..... Let them feel the heat and pay the price .....

[coalition_unwilling]

61. "Humming along nicely"??? In November of 2012, the official unemployment rate (U3) for

California was 9.8%. Means the real unemployment rate (U6) was probably in the neighborhood of 14-15%. GDP growth of 2%/year is NOT "humming along nicely"! At least according to most economists' way of thinking.

This economy (national and California's) is in a dead-cat bounce. No amount of Pollyanna-ish prognostication can change that.

Important to remember though, who has been at the helm in the House since Jan. 2011 and who campaigned on "Jobs, jobs, job," only to not bring a single jobs bill forward.

[stopbush]

77. Yep. I've been unemployed now for two years here in SoCal.

And at age 58, it's pretty scary.

I continue to send resumes and network, but the actual interviews have dwindled considerably compared to even 4 years ago.

No one will convince me that ageism isn't the primary reason I'm not getting hired these days. That, coupled with my experience-laden resume (which includes the now-mandatory salary history), which sends potential employers into their "we want executive-level experience, but at entry-level salary" mode.

[coalition_unwilling]

84. I've redacted my resume so that it does not show all my experience, education or skills. That's

a sign of how fucked up post-industrial American capitalism is.

Right now, I'm living off my IRAs and hoping I get something soon. I get really tired of these optimistic OPs about the economy, mostly from people who have no training in economics nor any well-rounded understanding of how the national economy is working (or not, as the case may be).

[stopbush]

90. I have 4 different versions of my resume that I send out, depending on the circumstance.

But if a company asks for a 10-year salary history, you really have no option but to give it to them because they will check these things, especially if you're going for a senior-level position.

We're getting by on my wife's income (which isn't great) and my unemployment insurance. We just did a little profit taking on some stocks that did exceptionally well this past year, but even that has a mouth-to-mouth feel about it, because we would rather have let things ride a little longer.

At least we have resources to draw on. Most Americans don't.

[leveymg]

7. What you've been seeing is holiday traffic, but the numbers weren't really that hot this year.

It's easier to get car loans. Car sales are way up, in large part because many people have just worn out their old rides that they kept years longer than they expected, and at a certain point, it seems better to borrow to buy a new one than to pay $3000 to replace the busted transmission.

As for jobs, a lot of those lost on the downward side of the Great Recession have been replaced by new jobs, many at lower wages, but the number of the structurally unemployed and those who are no longer counted is still huge. Real purchasing power is down.

No, it's not time for all of us to start humming, "Happy Times are here again." If only it were so.

[stopbush]

78. $750 is only about 2 car loan payments, tops.

The average person spends $1500 a year in car repairs. So far, you're under the average.

[unblock]

9. something fishy about the media

if a republican were in office the last four years, they would have declared the economy to be booming and the great recession a thing of the past.

[TheKentuckian]

36. Maybe they would but it would be a lie.

I can see we have reached the Tinkerbelle segment of the "recovery".

We aren't going to do anything else and in fact want to actually cut the one consistent driver of demand we have so now "stimulus" will be keeping most of the Bush tax cuts and talking up the economy.

After all corporate profits are good, the market has recovered, and the wealth of the wealthy is growing so the rest can suck eggs anyway.

All the people losing their homes, out of work, out of benefits, losing their business, wages depressed or even declining or whatever those ungrateful "small people" are WHINING and distracting from the recovery frame.

Now that the tax cuts are secured, no reason to make nice anymore or blow any more smoke up any asses.
Upper class suburbanites and haughty upper professionals in fashionable big cities are fine and are at no risk of losing the money that covers little Dalton's private school so savings are fully funded. If those rates had come back, adjustments may well have been made.

ALL CLEAR! The money is safe! Open disdain and deaf ears to the real human suffering is safe once again. Like during the Bush years we can pretend all is well as systemic failure stacks up and poverty grows.

Lying, no good, greedy fuckers. JUST LIKE the country club Republicans. In fact, they LOVE those types. Love them. They are "moderate". They were doing just fucking swell under Bush until the whole thing fell apart (and some made a pretty penny off that crashout) and they are once again doing just swell. "New normal" is just fine, never mind the "worthless eaters" of the bottom 80% are not even recovered to pre-crash Bush levels, now is time to up sell and keep the whining down least you disturb the comfortable.

[coalition_unwilling]

64. +1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - A most righteous rant and sorely needed - n/t

[Atticus]

86. Preach it! nt

[Fumesucker]

10. My relative with the two man construction company went from $100K five years ago to $25K now

And working harder than ever just to get that $25K.

I took SS as soon as I could because basically there are no jobs for someone in their late fifties or early sixties.

It's not all milk and honey out there.

[tularetom]

11. You live in an area that's pretty much recession proof

Of the 10 wealthiest counties ranked by household income in the US, 7 are in the DC metro area, 5 in VA and 2 in MD.

Many of the families in this area are employed either by the federal government or by contractors who are performing government work. White collar jobs which are less impacted by changes in the economy.

It isn't like that everywhere. Come out here to the Appalachia of California and you will see empty parking lots vacant stores and no lines (except in Walmart, Target and the dollar stores). You'll also see 15% unemployment.

[stopbush]

79. You have my condolences. I lived in Fresno for 3 years.

The SJ Valley is truly the armpit of CA.

[tularetom]

85. Actually we don't live in the valley anymore

We're up at 1800 feet in the foothills west of Yosemite.

But we do go down the hill often to visit our grandkids and their kids and to shop.

And yes, it is depressing. Especially to somebody like me who can remember what a great place it was to grow up in, back in the 50's.

[Wellstone ruled]

12. Here in Hicksville USA,things are a bit different.

Typical Red state,only part time jobs available and those come with short hours. National Companies with retail and manufacturing are not making any investment in their plants or any other improvements. As the Midwest and the East Coast,as well as the West Coast are humming along,here in the Intermountain West we are not seeing any increase of activity. Who in there right mind wants to move to a area that has only Right to work for less rules and crummy Health Care available. Our real economic base is retirees and a very small middle income group of people. The housing bust has caused so much disruption that it will be 3 to 5 more years before there is any real recovery. You won't read or hear about this in any media because it's all about ad revenues and sales of over priced and shoddy built houses and ponzie schemes.

The Holiday sales numbers were pretty pathetic this year,down about 7 to 10%. That's the facts,see the numbers every day. Retailers are still running Black Friday pricing and inventories are way out of line. People are tapped out. Our best and consistent customers are the Snowbirds. The young families are up to their eyeballs in debt,homes under water,tons of kids,three dollar plus fuel,major price increases in groceries. Karma is biting them in the ass and they blame it on President Obama. Yah right,get real kiddies and turn off Faux Noise.

[humbled_opinion]

16. I have to agree..

They are cutting my wifes hours supposedly she is full time barley getting 30 hours each week now for the last couple of months... she had vacation time so she is using it to fill in the hours kind of sucks cause she won't have any to take and relax with if things do get better.... Anyway hoping for the best but losing our FICA holiday didn't help either...

[mmonk]

32. Yep.

I have to agree.

[Wellstone ruled]

13. Here in Hicksville USA,things are a bit different.

Typical Red state,only part time jobs available and those come with short hours. National Companies with retail and manufacturing are not making any investment in their plants or any other improvements. As the Midwest and the East Coast,as well as the West Coast are humming along,here in the Intermountain West we are not seeing any increase of activity. Who in there right mind wants to move to a area that has only Right to work for less rules and crummy Health Care available. Our real economic base is retirees and a very small middle group of income people. The housing bust has caused so much disruption that it will be 3 to 5 more years before there is any real recovery. You won't read or hear about this in any media because it's all about ad revenues.

The Holiday sales numbers were pretty pathetic this year,down about 7 to 10%. That's the facts,see the numbers every day. Retailers are still running Black Friday pricing and inventories are way out of line. People are tapped out. Our best and consistent customers are the Snowbirds. The young families are up to their eyeballs in debt,homes under water,tons of kids,three dollar plus fuel,major price increases in groceries. Karma is biting them in the ass and they blame it on President Obama. Yah right,get real kiddies and turn off Faux Noise.

[Rex]

14. Been saying that since the 1980s.

.

[The Wizard]

15. A reliable economic indicator

is the handle and attendance at the race track as it reflects disposable income.

[humbled_opinion]

17. I never thought of that how true.... So when Vegas is booming

we will know that its all good..

[a kennedy]

35. I have seen some advertisements inviting me to come to Vegas....

69.00 a night for a Sunday thru Thursday stay..... I don't remember seeing these advertisements before.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. Not just horse races....

But your local dirt track too

[davidn3600]

20. Wages and housing is stagnant in most of the nation

The government is also running a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit. Several cities are going bankrupt. Many states are in the red.

[bhikkhu]

22. Housing is trending up, first time since the bubble

Here's a recent look at the federal deficit, using the CBO's latest numbers from http://soberlook.com/2012/10/are-us-households-to-re-lever-thats.html:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-i20RTbC1oo8/UIMRuVkRX1I/AAAAAAAAQMc/3xXtu562LBE/s1600/CBO+projection+of+federal+budget+deficit.png

...but I would admit that there's nothing especially sunny to look at yet on wages. At least employment is steadily improving, and at some point should provide some upward pressure.

[davidn3600]

23. Not improving everywhere

Where I live here in Florida, the prices have been pretty much flat-lined for 2 years. Banks are still not lending. Lots of people here are underwater in their loans by $100,000+. There is still a backlog of foreclosures.

Things are not going to be better for quite some time.

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. Apart from Nevada and California's central valleys

Florida was ground zero of the housing bubble. Overbuilt, oversold, overdeveloped. I'm not surprised that Florida would still be in trouble housing-wise. The run up to the collapse in Florida was an era of real estate foolishness that will go down in economic history. It was foolish everywhere, but nowhere as foolish as Nevada, CA's central valley, and Florida.

[HiPointDem]

26. but home ownership is going down. it's 'investors' buying properties as rentals.

[Glitterati]

80. And, a lot of the contracts aren't being completed

I've been looking for a house since last May (closing this month, YEAH!) I'm still seeing a lot of the homes that have been on the market relisted after 90 days under contract. Most of these were grabbed up by investors, cash deal, fast sale, supposed to close in 10 days. But, they aren't closing.

I've lived here 16 months and 1 house down the street has been relisted 4 times and is on the market again right now.

[Egalitarian Thug]

21. One, that you and the people you are using as your sample live in

the part of the country that has had almost all of what relief there is (Texas is doing better as well), and; two that your tiny sample is also probably pretty homogeneous and not representative of the nation at large.

[DearHeart]

24. Here outside of Chicago it's still around 8.3%

The county 25 miles to the south of where I am is at least 10.0% (Nov 2012 figures) and Rockford is over 10.0%. Unfortunately, for a lot of us, things are still not good.

Glad things are going well somewhere!

[HiPointDem]

25. The us unemployment rate is 7.9%, years after the recession supposedly ended. and the work-

force participation rate is down 2 points since the recession supposedly ended.



notice how it tanks in 2008 & never recovers.

you live in the DC metro: there's a lot of money there.

I live in a town with 11% unemployment & a median household income of $26K.

[coalition_unwilling]

67. +1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely

needed saying.

[TheKentuckian]

87. They don't give a shit about that. Their tax cuts are safe, no more need to

feign concern for the great unwashed. Time to cut Social Security before someone raises the cap and some are forced into less fashionable vacation destinations or have to eat at a chain dive on occasion or some such sacrifice.

[uponit7771]

27. You live in DC, DC UE rate has been relatively low for the last decade IIRC

[postulater]

28. Wisconsin is now the 42nd best state for business

Thanks Walker. We're open for business!

[OccupyManny]

29. The economy is getting better

I deliver inventory to some major retailer warehouses and in the last year I've seen an increase. Things have slowly gotten better and I no longer have to worry about enough work. I've even noticed some new faces at the warehouses I deliver to. That's the good news. The bad news is that my company is cutting our medical benefits. I've been saving for my own truck to go independent and I think if I do and with the AHC Act kicking in I will be in much better shape to make more money and pay less for health care.

[sendero]

30. You are in the DC metro area..

.... one of the most booming areas of the country. What you are missing is it is not like that most places.

[graham4anything]

31. The media is in full hate Obama hate America hate the fact that life is getting better mode

Last night we went out for dinner with friends and waited 95 minutes for a table.
As it was cold, and we figured by the time we got to a different place and waited there it would be just as long, we waited.

And the most interesting thing about this is- when we left (it was now 3 hours after we first arrived), there was still an hour wait.

This was NOT this way a year ago, when at most there was a 10 minute wait

And the malls are packed,the traffic from NJ to NY is back to levels not seen since prior to 9-11, the times are getting better

Why won't the media give credit where credit is due?

You are correct- we are being lied to.

By the rightwing, by the media, by people all around.

Why?
Because these people all have self-interested motivation and angles to promote the life sucks debbie downer, sad sam meme on folks
FOR THEIR OWN DEVIOUS PURPOSES.

Because if they cannot whine and whine and whine (they are partaking of the whine far too often), they would have nothing left to do but to wither and dry up on the vine, so they keep whining.

It is why though listening is down on cable news and up on other forms of people's time usage.

I only listen to Al Sharpton now, and totally ignore everyone else-that means everyone.

If I want to know the weather, I bring in our local weather/traffic station
and once no longer hooked on those stations, I have no craving to dive back in.

So go out and enjoy.
Life is too short to be anything but happy.

(When the big boon periods came in the past-did they ever have the downers like there are now? NO they did not. Used to be when things started getting good, it was 100% wanting to promote that so the positive effect kept multiplying.

And that is what is happening people by people.

Sure, not everyone everywhere, but it is multiplying daily.

And it is why, as I have remarked often, the core Barack Obama voters, the ones like me who would wait to vote for him for 10 hours on line if that was forced on us, are never heard whining at all.
And alot of the core Obama voters would be the ones directly to have been hit with hard times, yet NO WHINE from them.

only whiners whine. Because it suits them.
But the whiners are like the Wizard Of Oz. The curtain is being revealed.

2013 is going to be the best year yet of the Obama age.
2014 will be even better.
I just hope we get a continuation in office after Jan.2017 arrives.
and that it continues unabated forever.

[Fumesucker]

37. Your eagerness to slime anyone not doing well in this economy is noted n/t

[graham4anything]

45. If you and I ever agreed on anything, I would change my mind

you seem to just look at a glass half full as being half empty

a sky filled with clouds and a little blue is a good day

as opposed to one thinking its a horrible day

any day one wakes up is a good day

breathe in
breathe out
life is short
enjoy

material items don't matter.

and if you think it was better in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, there is Jeb Bush waiting for votes in 2016. As all Americans can, it is their priveledge to go and vote for Jeb.

Me, I see things that are and say WOW! It could be alot worse.

[Fumesucker]

46. Easy to say material things don't matter when you have enough spare to go to a fancy restaurant

You might recall the story of the blind men and the elephant, perspective matters a great deal in how you perceive things.

[graham4anything]

50. You know why Manhattan does better than other places don't you?

you know why Manhattan does better than other places?
NO Walmart to bleed people dry.

It has nothing to do with wall street you know.
It has everything to do with Walmart.

Because mom and pops thrive in NYC. Small business.
box stores are few and far between in Manhattan and people seek out the old.

It's like Fox
want to get rid of Fox?
Then stop watching Football and the Simpsons.
Don't just go halfway and stop with Fox News.
Give up the football and the other shows.
Stop watching x-factor and idol.(not saying you personally, but the people who watch Fox shows).

want to get rid of Walmart?
Those in places where there is a choice(and some places are not lucky to have any choice), but those places that have a choice, go elsewhere.
Other places match the drug prices.
Other places have CHEAPER food on sale
Other places treat their employees nicer and give more benefits(as opposed to none due to Walmart cutting hours so its part time not full time so to get around benefits).

and people have choices.
people can whine and all

But, you know, there are 10000s of openings for pharmacists.
It's boring I know, and I am not precise enough myself to do it.(I would be like the old pharmacist who gives the person the wrong thing in It's a wonderful life).
But you can quickly get to the $80,000 level after the six years of school required.
Apprenticeships are during school, and jobs are readily available.
And well, not just only kids. But adults who can find the time and get money for school
(but that is a political issue that can be done once all democrats are in office and republicans are not)

And what about plumbers?
Even in the worst of times, people always gotta go.
And when their going places are down, a plumber is called.
Prime jobs nationwide, but instead of whining, one has to do it.

Build a solid reputation, work hard, and it is there.

If your field has been rendered obsolete, instead of whining seek new fields

And someone else said well, DC is all government.
So?
Is something wrong with the federal government?
Only those who keep whining against the federal government would think so.

The millions who work for the federal government sure don't think so.

Like Wall Street.
People whine about Wall Street.

Yet 9 to 5ers make up 99.99% of Wall Street and I don't see them whining
They are regular workers, not the couple of CEOs stereotypical whined about.

Why would anyone want to get rid of Wall Street and have hundreds of thousands of people unemployed

Again, I am talking about whiners and not regular hard working folk who don't whine,(the CORE Obama voters like myself) because they know much hell life could be without President Obama in place now. And how much better it was for many now as opposed to then.

Again, it took different areas longer to fall than others.
It takes some areas longer to rise back than others.

But overall, a good change is happening, and your ship will come in shortly.
A wave doesn't come into shore, without being out in the deep ocean.

[Fumesucker]

54. I know quite a few people in construction, indeed I have a family member in construction

Here's my post on this very thread about my relative's income.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022139492#post10

You speak of many things about which you know very little, with the new home construction being in the pits for the last four years or so there are a lot of out of work plumbers, I know some of them, I also know out of work tile layers, sheetrock hangers, painters, carpenters, electricians, acoustic tile installers, HVAC techs, bricklayers, sheet metal fabricators and window installers among many other trades.

Not to mention try being a plumber at sixty years old, it's a physical job not for the old or infirm.

And I don't even own a TV, haven't for four years now and seldom watched it when I did have one.

[graham4anything]

59. New homes are on the rise. Again, not all areas, but some.

But I myself know an older plumber who can't no longer do the work, however, he can supervise and has a couple of people doing the actual work.
He now has 3 nice new shiny trucks, his equipted for a handicapped person to allow him mobile access.
He never whines, and he kept his job going.

out of lemons, make lemonade.

And well, also, people are mobile.
Might take relocation. But relocation is the American way from day one.
After all, without relocation, we would only have a handful of states, instead of a country full of states.

It's logic, not being cold,just logic.
For every but but but but but
there is an answer

the tv example could be applied to other stuff.

and you have the internet(as you are posting from it.)
The internet took away alot of jobs, but replaced them.

People(not saying you), whine about foreigners taking away jobs.
But to whine does not mean it will go back to before the internet.
Life has advanced, we are a worldwide society now.
So those jobs most likely won't come back
But there are others.

The American Dream was called "Dream" for a reason.
People back then as far as can be seen, did not whine as much as today.
And life was alot harder back then then it is today.

People I think IMHO just thought the way to good life would become way to even more good
and that the artificial prices would go higher and higher instead of being realistic.

example
if you live in a house like we do that was the cheapest house on the block when we purchased it and it went up in value say 4x in 25 years
well, who says that top value should be what we expect?

Long as the value if we want to sell is higher than it was when long ago purchased it is cash in the bank.
expecting things to go up uup up is highly unrealistic.

again, I know not all areas, but many areas are now back and others coming back, and still others will be back

but if you recall the wild west days, well, some areas did become ghosttowns
but isn't that how it works?

We don't have a national draft, we have both spouses now work, and that alone accounts for more jobs needed than any time in the past.
Maybe national service(not military) is the way to go for 2 years. And then a free education.
With people helped to find their niche in the world where there are plenty of jobs.

and the auto industry is back bigtime.

[Fumesucker]

63. Horatio Alger was a myth

And the US has among the lowest class mobility of any industrialized democracy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-steven-friedman/class-mobility_b_1676931.html

One interesting study examined the probability that a son will remain in his father's income quintile, where a quintile represents one-fifth of the population ranked from lowest to highest income. In that study of six countries (Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States), the data demonstrate that 42 percent of the American sons of fathers born in the poorest quintile landed in the poorest quintile themselves. This rate of the persistence of poverty was far higher than the 30 percent found in the United Kingdom and well above the 25 percent to 28 percent range found in Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Norway.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, go sell bullshit somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.

[graham4anything]

69. Poppycock and balderdash. What an inane comparsion survey.

We have more racism and sexism and anti-semitism here than anywhere in the world

so the figures are skewered in that for generations minorities(whomever the minority is) are forced to be in one ghetto place and it is hard to get out of that.

All the other nations are much smaller and don't have these problems.

And please, using Sweden,Denmark, Finland and Norway? What possible sense can one make out of stats in those 4 similiar countries to a country like the USA?

Put all the people there, here, and you still have 75% of our country to fill.

[Fumesucker]

72. You forgot the uber classist UK, you know the one with Earls and Dukes and a house of Lords

That horribly classist society has considerably more social mobility than does the land of the free.

[graham4anything]

74. you can take a train and be anywhere in the UK in a few hours

and most of the movement anyhow there is people who live in London and the countryside

or people moving from there to london

so quit the dreaming that it is similiar

6 hours on a train won't get you from NY to Chicago or NY to Florida

(plus their trains are quicker)

Now, let's have a major job program to get the railroad back nationwide like it used to be
and we will have millions of jobs and get people in places again

right now, I can NOT get from NYC to Nashville by train. There are NONE.
and by car it is minimum 15 hours.(back when I was younger maybe 12 but the time difference made it 13 anyhow)

and in comparing anyhow-
the US needs to have and has just gotten started with upward forward movement, the health care the countries you mention have.

took 50 years from LBJ to Obama.

I think you are being a little tongue in cheek again, no?

[Fumesucker]

83. What does that have to do with the price of tea in Darjeeling?

Take off the rose colored welders goggles, as far as social mobility goes the USA is in the bottom of the rankings among industrialized democracies and no amount of distraction and bafflegab on your part will change that fact.

Wages in the US have been flat since 1972 while productivity and corporate profits are at all time highs.

[Orrex]

38. Why the hell would you wait 95 minutes for a table?

That must be one hell of a table!

[Fumesucker]

40. One must be seen in the right places of course n/t

[graham4anything]

47. oh, the crooner is a comic as Bing Crosby magnificently said in White Christmas.

instead of too much whine, stop and smell the roses

life is what you make of it

and a glass of wine half full, is the same glass of whine half empty
take a sip from the wine half full, and leave the whine half empty behind

[Pretzel_Warrior]

48. Lots of places in suburbia on a Friday

We often have to put our names in at restaurants and do some shopping to kill some of that time.

[Orrex]

49. No thanks.

Make a reservation or order a pizza, I say.

[graham4anything]

52. That is great if one wants to eat at home, however,

on the days when one wants to be with other people, and get out it is not as easy.

Plus, it still takes 30 minutes to get a delivery of pizza, or if one goes and travels for it,
by the time you get home you gotta reheat it in the oven because it gets cold,
and it's an hour before you sit down and eat it anyhow

As to reservations-most places don't take reservations at the chains outside of the places in Manhattan.
They may put one on a list, but it don't help if there are no tables and you gotta wait.

As said-the important part of what i wrote anyhow is-
There was a line of an hour plus AFTER we finished at 830pm, and we got there early at 530pm

the important part is- it was more than just everyone arriving at one time. It was constant and it hasn't been like this in a decade.

and if we wanted pizza, well, we would have gone to a pizza place(a mom and pop near us that is not a chain though outside of NYC, unless you smother it with ingredients on top, its not NYC pizza anyhow.(There is a reason outside of NYC calls it "New York Style" pizza.

(and btw, we didn't require a big table,just 5 people, a regular booth or table was all we needed,2 pairs and a single).

[Orrex]

55. If you parked at your table for 90 minutes, then you're part of the problem

Eat and be on your way. Don't clog the real estate while other people are waiting!


If it's not already apparent, I should point out that I'm not especially fired up about this. It simply seemed like a way to poke fun at a tangent to the OP.

[graham4anything]

70. When places are full, service is slow

there was never a time we were just sitting there wasting time

between waiting for service
getting the drinks
getting the appetizer
soup
salad
(whichever people ordered, and they brought the soups at different time than the comp. salad and bread)
then the dinner
then the dessert

perhaps they should hire more cooks
but to blame the customers.

It might mean though, the place can expand, which means work for contractors, construction people, etc.

[graham4anything]

51. Yup. The poster above assumed I ate in a fancy place in Manhattan. I ate in a regular place in NJ

The Outback to be specific.
Because that is where we all met last night.
As I am sure you know, but the other poster may not, not too easy to just go elsewhere

[R_Flagg_77]

91. This might be sacraligeous here but...

2013 is going to be the best year yet of the Obama age.
2014 will be even better.
I just hope we get a continuation in office after Jan.2017 arrives.
and that it continues unabated forever.

Hell no! Not just no, but hell no! I want Obama to finish out his term in 2016 and gracefully hand the reins over to another incoming POTUS in January of 2017.

Call it what you will, but what you just advocated was a life term, not unlike a dictatorship.

[John_UAC]

33. Spam deleted by NRaleighLiberal (MIR Team)

[coalition_unwilling]

68. Unemployment rate in California was 9.8% in November. (December CA stats not released yet.) - n/t

[gollygee]

34. Where I live it's better than it was, but still not great

There are still a lot of people out of work, but not crazy amounts of people like a few years ago.

[MKITEM]

39. Of course D.C. is doing well.

Everybody working for the Federal government and Federal contractors. All the counties around D.C. are all the richest counties in America. People getting fat off the largesse of American empire.

[duffyduff]

42. +1

It's horrible in most of the country. What "jobs" there are happen to be part-time, no-benefit jobs or else they are in crummy fields like sales, with lots of turnover.

[raccoon]

73. Amen to that. nt

[KG]

41. nothing like that going on in my corner of the world.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

44. I think you're seeing normal return to full employment--not a bubble

Recent economic recoveries have been fueled by housing bubble, easy credit, dot com and Internet/computer growth.

One thing I've taken Obama at his word about is a refusal to grow the economy through gimmicks.

Many people have returned to work and have cash, but they either can't or won't use credit. I think the traffic in stores is real, but purchases are down from other times as recent as 2007.

As people pay down debt and save money and this latest population boomlet gets more entrenched in adult living (marriage, better jobs, etc.) I think things will really grow.

But that is over a couple of years or more--not mere months.

Economic data seems to support that. Housing prices coming back, GDP growth still positive, unemployment inching downward.

[Kip Humphrey]

53. Perhaps many others share in my curent 2013 affirmation, "2013, the best year yet!"

[cantbeserious]

56. You Live In One Of The Most Affluent Parts Of The United States - Your Local Economy Is Great

Not so great elsewhere.

Rank County State Median Income Population

1 Loudoun County Virginia $119,134 325,405
2 Fairfax County Virginia $105,797 1,100,692
3 Arlington County Virginia $100,735 216,004
4 Hunterdon County New Jersey $99,099 128,038
5 Howard County Maryland $98,953 293,142
6 Somerset County New Jersey $96,360 324,893
7 Prince William County Virginia $95,146 419,096
8 Fauquier County Virginia $93,762 66,320
9 Douglas County Colorado $93,573 292,167
10 Montgomery County Maryland $92,909 989,794
11 Charles County Maryland $91,733 149,130
12 Nassau County New York $91,414 1,344,436
13 Stafford County Virginia $91,348 132,133
14 Morris County New Jersey $91,332 494,976
15 Putnam County New York $90,735 99,933
16 Calvert County Maryland $89,393 89,256
17 Williamson County Tennessee $86,962 188,560
18 Delaware County Ohio $85,365 178,341
19 Santa Clara County California $84,895 1,809,378
20 York County Virginia $84,167 66,134

Source: WikiPedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

[limpyhobbler]

57. The economy sucks.

people make less money than they used to.

people can't afford to live.

[Hatchling]

58. There are still empty store fronts on a main street near my home.

Fronts that went empty four years ago and have never been rented since and other fronts that change owners rapidly. And new fronts that have gone empty recently. Plus the grime on the buildings is increasing as business owners cut back on cosmetic expenses.

Personal anecdote: Being in abject poverty, I get almost all of my food from food banks and the lines there have almost doubled and the amount of food handed out has decreased by about half. Even my friends on Sec. 8 have had their rent go up by $60 and the waiting list for Sec 8 has gone from 5 years to 8-12 years. A friend who lost her well paying job as an accountant 2 years ago did get a job. As a cashier working the night shift for a chain drugstore at less that 30 hour a week for minimum wage.

Gas has gone up, food has gone up and rents are increasing while wages are stagnant or decreasing. This holiday it was actually possible to get parking spots near the front of the parking lots instead of at the back and when I returned an item on the day after Christmas, I was thru the line in 10 minutes, not the hour+ I experienced in past seasons.

Nope, the economy isn't better here, at least, not for me and my poverty stricken friends.

[WCGreen]

60. If there is much congestion in areas...

it could be that there are simply too people for the existing roads and stores in the areas you are familiar with.

This is caused by many things such as not enough public transportation or over building the commercial areas. Poor urban planning or worse yet, poor suburban planning.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. Same thing Chicago North Side

and the near North suburbs.

I'm mystified.

[LWolf]

65. Local situations vary.

In my area, we continue to suffer unemployment and foreclosures higher than the national, even the state average.

I'll know the state economy is improving when there are enough funds to fund a full school year.

At school, our enrollment has dropped significantly with people moving out of the area, unable to find work. I'll know the local economy is improving when enrollment begins to rise.

[coalition_unwilling]

71. You're extarpolating from a region of the country awash in lobbyist swill, mercenary

loot and cronyism run amok.

It isn't like this in the rest of the country.

November California unemployment rate was 9.8%! (California's economy is the eighth largest in the world, btw.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California

[magical thyme]

75. this ^^^^ Do you really think the pols are going to let DC go all to hell?

It's their home.

The rest of the country, not so much.

Yes, you would have seen my 16 year old car with 220K miles at the mall before Christmas here in Maine. I bought myself new socks at Walmart for Christmas. 59 years old and I got several pairs of sox to replace the sox gift I gave myself 3 years ago because the old ones are wearing through.

I did get a 2nd part time job in time for Christmas, plus a heaping helping of schadenfreude when the assholes at the lab that have treated me like dirt for 18 months, since the day I walked in the door, couldn't hire my replacement, Ste. Adam who Walks on Water, fast enough...only to have him immediately get a better offer elsewhere and quit.

In the meantime, I couldn't buy oil for my furnace when I got well below 1/2 tank -- down to just 1/4 -- because the lab had cut my hours so much and I was waiting for my 1st paycheck at the new job. Paycheck came in the nick of time...I was down to less than 1/4 tank ahead of the below zero cold snap last week.

So I headed to the oil store yesterday, only to find they are no longer open on Saturday mornings. They didn't bother to notify their cash customers, nor did they bother to notify their answering service, who was fielding panicked calls.

Since they deliver my street on Mondays, if they refuse to deliver this Monday I will have to either pay extra for a special deliver or try to hold out until next Monday. I was down to 1/8 tank (about 25 gallons) at 2am.

I have the thermostat set at 50, and am trying to keep the house decent via my backup propane and electric. No matter how you slice it, I'm screwed.

[BlueStreak]

76. Onther than immediately after the Bush meltdown, the economy never CONTRACTED

We are talking about the difference between a 2% growth rate ("terrible&quot and a 3% growth rate ("Good&quot .

That is mostly separate from the unemployment problem.

Remember the population continues to grow. The rate of new construction for housing and shopping malls dropped way off, so even though there are 2% more people unemployed than what we consider "normal", the growing population fills up those restaurants, highways, and stores.

[Glitterati]

81. What I'm seeing

Walmart parking lot is full on Food Stamp days, Social Security deposit days, etc. The rest of the month, you can find a place to park any day.

The same is true at BJs.

[Tikki]

88. My So Cal community has homes being remodeled, solar panels added and low water gardens being...

installed all over. My neighborhood has construction trucks chugging up the hill at least twice week now.

Interestingly, my neighborhood has smaller homes with rental units on the acreage and the last
4 income properties that went on sale sold in less than 6 months...the latest one in 20 days.

Somehow we are being reshaped into an active economy. We'll see how it ends up for all
of the residents of our community.


Tikki

[FarCenter]

89. Real GDP per capita is over $40 K

The difference between 9% unemployment and 6% unemployment is negligible in terms of impact on the economy, since a lot of the last few % of employees are producing very little value over the cost of their compensation.