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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKrugman: Be Ready To Mint That Coin
Should President Obama be willing to print a $1 trillion platinum coin if Republicans try to force America into default? Yes, absolutely. He will, after all, be faced with a choice between two alternatives: one thats silly but benign, the other thats equally silly but both vile and disastrous. The decision should be obvious.
For those new to this, heres the story. First of all, we have the weird and destructive institution of the debt ceiling; this lets Congress approve tax and spending bills that imply a large budget deficit tax and spending bills the president is legally required to implement and then lets Congress refuse to grant the president authority to borrow, preventing him from carrying out his legal duties and provoking a possibly catastrophic default.
And Republicans are openly threatening to use that potential for catastrophe to blackmail the president into implementing policies they cant pass through normal constitutional processes.
Enter the platinum coin. Theres a legal loophole allowing the Treasury to mint platinum coins in any denomination the secretary chooses. Yes, it was intended to allow commemorative collectors items but thats not what the letter of the law says. And by minting a $1 trillion coin, then depositing it at the Fed, the Treasury could acquire enough cash to sidestep the debt ceiling while doing no economic harm at all...So if the 14th amendment solution simply declaring that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional isnt workable, go with the coin.
- more -
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)When the debt ceiling is raised, borrow the money, buy back the coins, and lock them up in Ft. Knox until the next time the idiots in Congress hold the economy hostage.
TeamPooka
(24,475 posts)because the GOP Congress deserves it.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)But a hand flipping the bird on the obverse side would be nice.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)I like it!
yeah, let the Coin reflect the times. rofl The teabaggers deserve all the derision they get.
unblock
(52,883 posts)at a minimum, the 14th amendment path requires a protracted legal dispute and and conceivably a rationalization for impeachment.
minting the trillion dollar coin is pretty clear-cut in its legality and arguably is exactly what congress is "ordering" the president to do if it authorizes spending and refuses to authorize more debt -- the logical solution is simply to print more money, or in this case, mint more money.
paulkienitz
(1,297 posts)so the constitutional fight is what's needed long term.
unblock
(52,883 posts)but i agree that if republicans can manage to get both houses of congress and the white house, they could pass a law preventing the trillion-dollar coin solution.
on the other hand, i don't see the 14th amendment as helping much. it lets treasury pay existing debt but not raise new debt. so perhaps it buys some time but not much. eventually we can't have to issue new debt and then what?
ewagner
(18,964 posts)I'm not being flippant but I think that's what has been done in the White House but I haven't seen it done here.
What I'm talking about is "gaming out" the possible moves for each scenario. I'm particularly interested in the two mentioned by Krugman: minting the coin and the 14th amendment solutions.
The White House has already said that they won't use the 14th amendment solution which makes me believe they gamed it out and found a dead end or higher-than-acceptable risk element in it. I'm suspecting that "the game" would go something like this:
President announces that debt ceiling is unconstitutional
President orders borrowing of $$$
Repubs file suit against the President
Repubs seek restraining order
Repubs file articles of impeachment
Law suit and impeachment drag through court system
Impeachment moves faster
crisis ensues
Country Credit rating goes down
Interest rates go up
Impeachment dies in Senate
Supreme Court assumes jurisdiction
Supreme Court rules ??????????
All in all...not a pretty scenario. If anybody believes the House Repubs would sit back and accept a declaration by the President that the Debt Ceiling was unconstitutional, they don't know how these nut cases are.
Have they done the same with the minting-the-coin scenario? Are they even taking it seriously?
Your comments are solicited.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Not the President?
ewagner
(18,964 posts)...was that the President had to create a "cause of action" that someone else filed suit on...that suit would work it's way through the courts...and yes, the Supreme Court would eventually decide upon the constitutionality of the question/cause of action.
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)The Fed alone decides how much money goes into circulation.
unblock
(52,883 posts)and i can't see any fed, certainly not one headed by bernanke, accepting default over accepting a trillion-dollar coin legally minted.
keep in mind that this is a fed that routinely creates money out of thin air.
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)or MBS.
This silly coin is nothing but $80 worth of metal.
unblock
(52,883 posts)which is no more or less silly than the trilliion-dollar coin.
how is a trillion dollars worth of cash produced through treasuries or mbs and better than a trillion-dollars worth of cash produced by minting it? yes, effectively it increases the money supply but that's really what congress does when it authorizes the spending in the first place.
banned from Kos
(4,017 posts)the trillion dollar coin is not. They sell the assets later to retire the thin air money. Poof! It leaves just as easily as it was created.
Only the Fed can increase the money supply anyway.
unblock
(52,883 posts)there's nothing fundamentally different about a $10 bill or a nickel or a trillion-dollar coin.
it's all backed by nothing more or less than the full faith and credit of the federal government.
which is the same thing that is legal tender for retiring all those real assets.
TeamPooka
(24,475 posts)it does not matter how much the metal is worth.
The costs to make a penny are more than a penny.
We make $10 coins with $1600 of gold in it so your argument is baseless.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)I don't know why, this just cracks me up.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)and Treasury opposed it being passed because it was so poorly worded and gave vast power to the Treasury Secretary.
Cha
(299,389 posts)it's weird.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Just as much of a hassle as $1 coins and $2 bills.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)and all you had was this stupid trillion dollar coin.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)TeamPooka
(24,475 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,332 posts)Lord, they look at me strangely enough when I do it with a couple of Sacajewea dollars...
Of course, this is all hypothetical. It would have fallen out of my pocket and gotten lost in the cushions of the couch LONG before I'd have a chance to spend it.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)But here is you have a clear loophole that you can drive a Mack truck through.
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)the Boston Tea Party on the other.
Brother Buzz
(36,586 posts)Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)And Obama should buy a pair of loafers...
Shoes so expensive even my wife wouldn't buy them!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)just to walk around the Oval Office a couple of times with a couple of trillion dollar coins jingling in your pocket!
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)I was in Mexico several years ago, and the exchange rate was such that a $100 travellers check converted to 250,000 pesos. I told my wife, "I don't care if it IS worthless, having a quarter million in ANYBODY'S currency feels awesome!
Yavin4
(35,533 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If it becomes a practice, it is not. Alternatively, he could print one million, million-dollar coins. This is big money, and it adds to the money supply even if it's not in circulation.
foxtrotzulu
(3 posts)The US Government is not in any danger of default. Income is (approx.) 200 billion/month. Debt service is (approx) 35 billion/month. There is no need to mint a special coin and create a false crisis to service the debt.
Yes, we would have a 114 billion/month short-fall. Yes, some tough choices would need to be made about what parts of government to stop funding. But there is no real danger of default.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)What are your economic credentials?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:13 AM - Edit history (1)
It could easily trigger global economic collapse. There would be a worldwide run on T bills, which are heavily used as collateral in world financial markets. That's just one of the side effects.
TeamPooka
(24,475 posts)Welcome to DU
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)n/t
TeamPooka
(24,475 posts)moondust
(20,101 posts)Mmmmmm, trillion dollar coin! Richer faster! Richer faster! Richer faster! Richer faster!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)But the Congressional Republicans are not normal. They are reckless, scary people who are more than prepared to hold the country to ransom, wreck our credit rating, and sabotage the economy, just to score some cheap political points against President Obama and ingratiate themselves with the Tea Party morons.
So yes, mint it. Also, I am looking forward to seeing whose face will be on it. And I am also looking forward to the inevitable Hollywood movie in which Ben Stiller tries to steal it.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)I would prefer "Oceans 1 Trillion"
marble falls
(58,884 posts)dragonlady
(3,577 posts)I was thinking about that just this morning. What important American figure hasn't yet been on any kind of currency? I'd go for Teddy Roosevelt.
Panasonic
(2,921 posts)As a compromise to the Republicans. Since only three will be minted, and it'll stay in the vault of the Treasury - nobody can get to it. Locked down like Fort Knox.
The obverse? Reagan's wrinkled butt.
And it's legal tender.
haele
(12,776 posts)Grover Norquist with a Mad Hatter's hat. Seal/Motto: Non Bathonie satis exiguus (yes, I used Google translate - my high school latin is very, very rusty)
Obverse side, the Mad Hatter's Tea Party, including Norquest, Boener, McConnell, and Ayn Rand as Alice.
Haele
caveat_imperator
(193 posts)I'd love to see Smedley Butler's face on our money one day as well.
Initech
(100,424 posts)David__77
(23,795 posts)...
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)look in to.
The GOP's true masters, as we here (not the trolls, but the true DUers here) all know, is Big Business, foreign and domestic. When Big Business sees the GOP are going to eviscerate their bottom line and not raise the debt ceiling to pay debts already incurred, they will come down on them like raging tigers.
All President Obama has to do is not negotiate. Stand firm and tell them, "Raise the debt ceiling". That's it.
For the doubters here, remember he promised he wouldn't keep tax cuts for the top 2% the last time they held the U.E. benefits hostage (and just before Christmas, too, those assholes) and forced him to extend them. He kept his promise as we've seen in the last fiscal slope deal.
He has said, steadfast, that he will not debate on the debt ceiling. I believe he is dead serious.
OccupyManny
(60 posts)The debt is all funny money. Average Americans shouldn't care. We need more spending and investments in infrastructure and education.
Rosco T.
(6,496 posts)... defuse the GOPigs for a while, let PBO keep 9 of them in his desk. Ready to be deposited.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)ThoughtCriminal
(14,131 posts)Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)And then it ended up in the hands of Castro.
Initech
(100,424 posts)"And if its a crime to bribe a jury so help me I'll soon be guilty of that!!!!!"
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts).
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)can't image anyone who'd pissoff the republics more than Jane Fonda
Maybe Karl Marx...but they wouldn't know who he was
WillyT
(72,631 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It would stop a perfectly good opportunity to shock-doctrine the little people.
Regards,
Third-Way Manny
WillyT
(72,631 posts)It would truly ruin their 3rd Way Dimensional Chess.
Did you get a gander at this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022150897
Amonester
(11,541 posts)(HyperTextTransportProtocolSecured)
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Larrymoe Curlyshemp
(111 posts)Without complaint!
Hekate
(91,728 posts)There would not be enough room for all the zeroes, would there? The trillion would have to be spelled out...
Krugman says the face should be Boehner's without question. I think that on the back in place of the proud eagle there should be a duck with a busted wing.