DU POLL: Are humans basically stupid?

[RKP5637]

What does DU think? I think so. To clarify, I'm not speaking of IQ, I'm speaking of plain stupid. Look at the world, what a fucken mess. IMO humans are just another passing species on earth.

46 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	33 (72%)
	No
	7 (15%)
	Only the OP!
	1 (2%)
	I don't understand the question!
	1 (2%)
	It's too late for this, go to bed.
	1 (2%)
	Only Some.
	3 (7%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[MrSlayer]

1. Yes.

We will be the shortest lived dominant species ever on the planet.

[Mdterp01]

2. Hell to the Motha F'n YES

Seriously...I think we ought to just take the warning labels off everything and let the problem take care of itself.

[RKP5637]

4. I agree all the way! n/t

[pacalo]

17. Haven't seen you around -- welcome to DU!

Good answer.

[marybourg]

102. Sounds like something from freeperland to me.

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. Not sure if stupid is the best term (though I often use it!)....

a few other terms that come to mind....

highly flawed, due to predisposition to greed, envy, stubbornness, narcissism, and an amazing inability to not only learn from past errors, but understand or recall them.

for a start...

also, disappointing.

[RKP5637]

10. One of my friends has always called it a failed extraterrestrial experiment. With the

Last edited Thu Jan 10, 2013, 12:37 PM - Edit history (1)

vastness of the universe it's always fascinated me that we are stuck off all by ourselves with seemingly no possible contact with any entity ... like we were vanished from the federation!

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. It is simply amazing - in my corporate life I was involved with change management,

project management, knowledge management. I was getting paid amazing well to tell teams the obvious, and none of them ever followed any of my suggestions, much preferring to waste their time making the same - and very predictable - mistakes. and we are talking smart, well educated people here. But ego, stubbornness, and god knows what (jealousy as well) got in the way. I see it everywhere - in the news, in politics - we are just utterly flawed beings.

I look at my dogs and cats and see two superior examples of lifeforms!

[RKP5637]

21. Paradigm management can be very difficult in the corporate environment. I was always

amazed at how some just loved being stuck in a failed or failing paradigm. I was fortunate in my career to have worked with some really high-flying technology companies and I was often struck by the fact that the qualities in founders that made the company superb and an industry leader stuck to those same principles as the company started to fail. They just could not change, often IMO driven by ego and stubbornness.

[hopemountain]

52. are you referring to gerbils?

workers who are stuck on the "job security" treadmill

[daschess1987]

5. The link is the message, friend:

[RKP5637]

27. Thank you!!! n/t

[ZM90]

6. It's missing a "Only Some" option. n/t

[RKP5637]

13. Yep, good point. Added it!

[Warpy]

7. Taken individually, we're really a pretty dumb species

and even the more intelligent of us have massive blind spots where we're dumb as stumps.

However, put us into a cooperative group, we can get pretty smart.

[NRaleighLiberal]

12. sometimes...and sometimes that group cooperates down exactly the wrong path!

As I said above, I've observed it many times when I was in the corporate world, working with teams.

[NoOneMan]

45. Cooperates is a funny word for it all

I work (as a part of the whole) so I don't starve due to the economic rules created to govern our society. I'm not cooperating, but competing for finite resources (and that participation is what is causing the growth).

[Warpy]

60. That happens mostly with homogenous (as in milk) groups

who were hired because they all think alike and they all have very similar backgrounds. With little more brought to such a group than was brought by any one individual, it's no wonder they so often go down the wrong path.

[Romulox]

87. The US isn't a "homogenous (as in milk) group". Our folly is well documented, however. nt

[Warpy]

92. That's because we the people are given a homogenous group

to "choose" from, mostly white, mostly upper middle class, mostly male.

The rest of us are only consulted at election.

[Romulox]

98. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have largely extended the policies of George W. and Condi

for example.

I don't think your explanation cuts it; the US is the worst country in the developed world, and the least homogenous.

[Warpy]

101. What about "mostly" didn't you understand?

[Romulox]

116. The part where it doesn't fit reality?

[RKP5637]

18. You hit a key point I often think of ... that IMO too often the human species is way

too focused on competitiveness than cooperation. I guess it's survival of the fittest instinct and all that constantly focuses humans into competitiveness. To me, competitiveness is a very base primitive instinct. ... wherein cooperation is more refined. Well, something like that.

[NoOneMan]

46. I disagree

In terms of base primitive instincts. The majority of "primitive" foraging cultures are cooperative and completely communal.

We compete due to the rules of the system IMO, rather than our instincts.

[RKP5637]

69. Hmmm ... I agree with you! It is the system that often drives this ridiculous competitiveness. n/t

[riverwalker]

8. In what way, Charlie? n/t

[agent46]

9. Humans aren't stupid.

They are highly suggestible.

[Frank Cannon]

86. You are correct.

I've known brilliant PhDs who believed the craziest shit you could possibly imagine. I believe James Randi once said that it's the smartest and most educated among us who are most at risk for self-delusion.

[Agnosticsherbet]

14. Yes, they are another passing species.

No, as a species we aren't stupid, since we have succeeded in becoming the top predator on earth and the most successful animal in history, which from the point of view of species success makes us brilliant from the point of view of a short geological time span. Many individuals are dumber that shit.

[RKP5637]

23. Astute!!! "... in becoming the top predator on earth ..." And IMO what also leds us to, so to say,

to be devouring ourselves.

[Agnosticsherbet]

112. If we are devouring each other, we must be very nutritious...

There are more than 7 billion of us now, and we are increasing in population, sort of like an infection.

[RKP5637]

113. And the host can only sustain us for so long! n/t

[pacalo]

15. Too many are intellectually lazy.

[RKP5637]

24. I love that little person at the desk hand waving!!!

[pacalo]

28. Thank you.

You're welcome to use it.

[Marie Marie]

38. He reminds me of Arnold Horseshack.

Ooh ooh, Mr Kotter!

[RKP5637]

40. Yep!

[MrScorpio]

16. "A person is smart…"

[RKP5637]

30. Well said! Take a look at #22. Increasing "N" does not mean a bunch of smarts! n/t

[Kalidurga]

19. Yep

Just look at the way we feed ourselves. Using resources very poorly. Adding chemicals to our food that makes us sick. Corporate farms that contribute a great deal to global warming and polluting drinking water.

[RKP5637]

25. It's really really mind boggling when one thinks about it ... We are in a finite space. We are

contributing to and drowning in our own chemicals and trash. It's not going to go well.

[cpwm17]

20. The average person is...

average, who is unfortunately less intelligent than we'd like to think.

[FarCenter]

22. Organizations are even stupider - Group IQ = 100 / log(N) for N>10.

Senate IQ = 100 / log(100) = 50.

House IQ = 100 / log(435) = 37.9.

[RKP5637]

26. Excellent! Thank you! Larger does not mean better!

[Deep13]

29. No, but we have some serious limitations. nt

[Llewlladdwr]

31. Call me crazy...

but I'm not understanding how a species that went from stone tools to manned space flight in about 6,000 years could be described as "stupid".

[NoOneMan]

32. I agree

They illustrated they could live without overshoot and ecological destruction for 100K+ years. We've only been acting stupid for about 10K years.

[Buzz Clik]

33. just lazy

[NoOneMan]

34. Humans are plenty smart. Civilizations are stupid.

[Llewlladdwr]

35. Yes indeedy.

Electricity? Stupid.

Medicine? Stupid.

Science? Stupid.

Rule of law? STUPID!

Do I need a sarcasm smilie?

[RKP5637]

37. No, I did one for you!

[Llewlladdwr]

39. Thank you very much!

[NoOneMan]

41. All stupid, yes

Electricity isn't useful without civilization to create things that need electricity. Hell, civilization existed most of its life without electricity.

The vast amount of medical technology that exists today is to fix problems of a malnourished, poisoned, stressed population (conditions civilization creates)

Science is needed for technology to speed the cultivation of the wilds (again, something only necessitated by civilization itself).

And foraging societies have ways of promoting great lives and harmony without the Rule of Law as we know it, which is mostly focused on creating stable marketplaces and accelerating the velocity of energy.

Civilization is great at growing and creating walls to cage its cogs' minds.

Its all basically stupid because all this pointless, needless, infinite growth/advancement (which is the result of the destruction of our ecosystem) is taking place on a finite world and creating a painful population bottleneck. Shitting where you sleep for no reason is stupid. Creating a pyramid of exploitation so the top of the world can be comfy while we inch closer to disaster is stupid.

[Llewlladdwr]

42. Sweet, a luddite!

NoOneMan, if you truly believe that living in a Stone Age foraging or hunter gatherer culture is preferable to living in our much more technologically advanced one why in the world are you on the Internet? If electricity is stupid then why are you using it? Do you seek medical attention when seriously sick or injured? If so, how do you reconcile this with your statement concerning medical technology?

[NoOneMan]

44. The Luddites were fighting for their jobs

They were already in the agriculturalists' paradigm.

Here is the bottom line question:

Have all these advancements increased the aggregate happiness of the 8 billion homo sapiens enough to justify their collective impact on our ecosystem?

Remember, 8 billion people cannot live like you. Consider:

We now have 4 billion people chronically deficient in at least one required nutrient

850 million people are starving to death with 25,000 dying every day

These people are outnumbered by the 15% of the world's population that is overweight and obese (causing further health problems)

Slavery may be as high as 25 million people today, with many more given nothing but subsistence wages causing dramatic poverty and subjugation

Even in developed areas people must labor 40 to 60 hours a week to live in a way where their needs are met and their children have mobility. This stress is linked to cancer, mental illness and violence.

And let us not forget global wars and pandemics that exist only since civilization. Frankly, I could go on and on.

All this production and innovation have increase CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere to 400PPM, which is predicted to decimate our agriculture system by 2050 (and starve billions by 2100). Likewise, the increase in CO2 in the oceans is causing a massive planetary food chain disruption.

Considering all this...

Is the supposed aggregate happiness (Africans to Americans) that these advancements bring us justify our impending starvation and climate crisis?

If not, seems like it was all pretty stupid.

[RKP5637]

36. Yep, there's a lot said in that short statement. Collectively, some civilizations have

been pretty damn stupid. And I've got a hunch the current one isn't the sharpest one in the tool shed.

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. As compared to...?

[NoOneMan]

49. Bonobos?

On the other hand, they sat around fucking while we destroyed the planet and put their species at a risk of extinction. So the question is: should they of figured out how to kill us off or resigned themselves to a state of inevitable death and fucked the pain away?

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. Isn't that a little bit like asking if flies were stupid for not outsmarting fly swatters?

[NoOneMan]

55. Or are they smart for living a free fly's life despite the threat of the swatters?

[cherokeeprogressive]

57. Is a fly who ventures within range of a fly swatter "smart"? Or is that fly simply unlucky?

WE are not free. We are flies, and we're the ones BUYING the fly swatters.

[NoOneMan]

59. For the most part, I am being facetious (especially with the fly talk)

It is neither. The fly is just being a fly.

My main point: is living in a manner that promotes happiness a measure of "intelligence" (or the ultimate measure). If everything we figure out does not improve our condition, is it smart to figure it out? Otherwise, is intelligence even a "useful" trait if it does not improve our condition (rendering the line of questioning moot).

The bonobo lives a bonobo life of fucking. Why are we smarter for living a life of earth trashing and subjugation? If we accepted our fate and pursued pleasures and freedom (despite environmental threats), this may in fact be smarter if we ended up happier. Was it less intelligent to leave our bonobo brothers' side and pursue a path to misery?

Or are we humans just being humans (despite half a million years of hominid existence that was a different path)? Or is the problem that humans are not being human?

[Egalitarian Thug]

48. Yes, but we also produce such spectacular exceptions to the rule. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

50. Of course not

Deeply flawed? Yes. But can't find your own ass with both hands stupid no.


And remember that one of those fingers pointed out that are pointed right back from a different perspective

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Only in that we have the ability to convince ourselves that we're special,

[hopemountain]

54. we have the ability

to overcome stupidity by thinking & using our hearts & our minds if we wish to exist much longer. greed seems to have overtaken stupidity.

[RKP5637]

72. Well said!!! n/t

[sagat]

56. Yes.

Just read the comments section of any news article.

[RKP5637]

73. ...

[AldoLeopold]

58. Argh

[link:|

[RKP5637]

74. +++ 1,000,000 +++ ... for example, congress IMO. n/t

[AverageJoe90]

61. I doubt we'd have made it this far if we really were. n/t

[NoOneMan]

63. This far?

How far is that? How are you measuring it? Where are we headed? Whats it going to look like when we get there?

[AverageJoe90]

64. Does it matter all that much, how I measure it?

In all reality, though, nobody knows exactly where we're headed, either utopia or dystopia.....BUT, I can say this for a fact: there's a very high probability that it will land somewhere in the middle.....that's really how it's always been, with perhaps a few exceptions. Yes, indeed, strange things have happened before, but it doesn't really change the fact of the matter.

[NoOneMan]

65. Hey, you claimed we were "far"?

I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you mean by that.

Half way to collapse? Half way to figuring out how to feed billions of hungry mouths? Nowhere near happiness?

The very notion that we are progressing linearly, and regularly, along some path to a tangible goal may be a myth. It most certainly is if we cannot define what we even mean by "far".

[AverageJoe90]

68. Well, we DID manage to make it thru the Cold War without getting ourselves blown up......

That's a good start, I think.

The very notion that we are progressing linearly, and regularly, along some path to a tangible goal may be a myth. It most certainly is if we cannot define what we even mean by "far".

Well, okay, but I didn't necessarily imply that, though. In fact you may be right, in some respects: For example, just 25 years ago, who could have imagined terabyte hard drives or smartphones as being anything other than science fiction?

[NoOneMan]

71. Yes, but we had a Cold War

I would suggest that human race without such may of been "further".

We have wars, poverty, starvation, diseases and only about 1% of the earth's living on top (exploiting the rest).

Are we happier than before we started, inclusive of everyone (even those living on under a dollar a day)? Otherwise, we might be getting far, but in the wrong direction.

Sure, technology has certainly progressed, but if terabyte harddrives do not improve the human condition for all humans, then are they really relevant or rather a distraction?

[RKP5637]

75. People seem to always equate technological advancement to sociological advancement ...

given there is some correlation ... IMO, technological advancement is rushing ahead of sociological advancement. And, the lack of altruistic sociological advancement leading the way will eventually do us all in ... IMO.

[NoOneMan]

80. The problem with a lot of technological advancements...

is that our technological infrastructure is carried on the backs of billions of exploited humans around the world (from resource extraction and labor exploitation).

Even if technology can improve our lives (though we work 40-60 hours to afford a seat in a high-tech country), it makes immeasurable other lives worse--mind you, not the actual technology but the economic activity needed to supply the energy, resources, labor, etc.

People that think we are in a sweet spot from all our cleverness are normally deluded or the ones standing on the backs of everyone else in the world. Things are pretty awful out there for a lot of people and 8 billion people can't live like a middle-class American (there isn't enough to go around)

[RKP5637]

83. Extremely well said ... and the advantaged really never feel the pain of those propping

them up.

[AllenVanAllen]

62. I wouldn't call humans 'stupid.'

But too many spend their time trying to be 'clever' instead of trying to be wise.

[stultusporcos]

66. Depends on the person and what you are measuring stupidity with

by my standards most people are stupid.

[Posteritatis]

67. There's an interesting followup to this question

I've seen it asked in a few other places before.

It turns out if the next question asked is "If you think that humans are basically stupid, do you consider yourself to be an exception?" there's a whole lot of crickets.

Guess people don't like having that particular attitude pointed out...

[LisaLynne]

70. Very true!

[RKP5637]

77. Yep!!! Similar in some ways to many complaining congress is stupid but their guy is

often OK ... and that cuts across, in general, all parties.

[Posteritatis]

108. Yep. People are eager to look down on others, but are oddly uncomfortable w/the implications

So they find a way to merely imply "I'm so much better than the rest of the sheep" that doesn't involve daring to claim that outright.

[GoCubsGo]

76. No, but...

...a lot of them sure are ignorant, which is not the same thing as "stupid". As for being "Just another passing species on Earth", yeah, that's true. But, same holds true for every other species that has existed. Contrary to what many believe, we are not above all that.

[RKP5637]

79. Well said!!! n/t

[napoleon_in_rags]

78. "Humans are stupid" is an extremely dis-empowering belief.

It allows you to sit back and surrender, and not worry about informing anybody or teaching anybody. Why bother? They're stupid anyways.

Its a lot harder to take on a belief like "humans are okay, but in many cases we're systematically misinformed" because a belief like that has a certain moral call to action in it, in asks to be involved with helping each other, with informing each other.

I for one would rather have that challenge. Even if I don't rise to it, even if I try and fail, I feel better living in that world where awakening and enlightenment for people a real possibility, something we can actually do.

Peace

[RKP5637]

81. We can do that, but first, at least IMO, we need to recognize that collectively, looking out

of the box, a lot of things humans do collectively are pretty damn stupid ... and that does not infer a lack of intelligence but rather willful and unnecessary stupidity.

[napoleon_in_rags]

85. "unnecessary" I'll go with that...

...as far as the misinformed things people do. But willful stupidity? Really? Do you believe that? Do you believe anybody sits down and wills to be stupid? They say "I will be stupid, if its the last thing I do!" or something like that? I don't think so.

I think we're basically good, we want to learn. We want to know what's going on. Often we don't, but we yearn towards truth.

And I believe there's a whole lot of power and hope in that, for those who are willing to see it.

[RKP5637]

89. How will meaningful progress in that direction occur? Agree, willful stupidity is not the best

terminology.

[napoleon_in_rags]

114. I believe it will happen when the methods for attaining the truth go viral.

Right now sometimes truth goes viral, often BS goes viral. Its an endless war with big players putting out the messages they want heard. But truth has certain qualities all its own BS lacks, and certain methods for finding truth have emerged over the years through philosophy, science, etc. If only there were some way to empower people with more truth finding methods, with more tools - something approachable and fun, and tied strongly enough to the methods so as not to become another propaganda device...

[RKP5637]

117. Agree 1000%! I've often thought it would be great if there were some type of truth clearing

house ... not sure how that would work, but somehow a central source for absolute truth rather than the BS people often run with ...

[napoleon_in_rags]

119. I agree too. But I'm also not sure how it would work.

I started thinking about it out loud in my last response to you, and wrote a whole lot trying to figure it out. It was useful to me in that I identified the problems, but I couldn't come up with any meaningful solutions so I erased it all. Its not a simple endeavor, but I believe its one with profound ramifications once somebody gets it right.

[pinboy3niner]

82. Only when they post stupid polls

[RKP5637]

84. LOL ...

[cali]

88. This poll is basically stupid.

[RKP5637]

90. OK! n/t

[Baclava]

91. No - when the octopi put their sucker marks on the moon, then I may waiver

I do agree this is a stupid poll though, so there's always a chance

[polly7]

93. No, but the earth right now would be better off if we had been.

We could have done it all so much better .... instead, we chose greed, self-entitlement and sometimes, absolute evil acts to shape the world the way we wanted - that all took some thinking.

[1-Old-Man]

94. Any observation of Popular Culture confirms gross stupidity

[datasuspect]

95. not basically, PROFOUNDLY

stupid. and damn proud of it.

[Uncle Joe]

96. No, we're just relative.

Thanks for the thread, RKP.

[NCTraveler]

97. Can you think of anything more intelligent.

I can't either. So relative to what we know, humans aren't even close to stupid. Most likely on the complete other end of the spectrum.

[RKP5637]

99. No, neither can I. n/t

[Shankapotomus]

100. No. We just cant all be scientists. nt

[1-Old-Man]

104. 50% of Americans can not read at the 8th grade level, 43% do not read after hight school

It is not a matter of not being scientists, its a matter of not even being literate. Is it stupidity or lazyness? You tell me.

[Shankapotomus]

107. No. I mean we can't all be scientists

as in, the ideal world, we all would be scientists.

But I get your point about reading. It should be fundemental.

[haele]

103. More incurious or self-absorbed than stupid.

First one needs to identify stupid - is it an intelligence capability issue or a wisdom of action issue?
Being un-educated or under-educated can certainly make one seem stupid. Being more reactionary than thoughtful and proactive in one's life also makes one seem stupid.

But I've always thought that true stupidity is the lack of capability to comprehend that there is a world outside of one that moves on its own and cannot be stopped or turned off and on by whim, and that actions (or inaction) have consequenses.

Haele

[1-Old-Man]

105. Well said.

[littlemissmartypants]

106. I concur.

Or as my Granny (God rest her soul, I miss her so!) would say, "Most people can't see past their own noses." Peace. LMSP

[RKP5637]

109. That, sums it up quite well IMO. "Most people can't see past their own noses."

[Art_from_Ark]

110. It's all Zeus's fault, dammit!

If he hadn't been such a vengeful idiot and unleashed all those bad things on us just because Prometheus conned him into choosing the entrails of an ox for his burnt offering, we'd all be living in peace and happiness now

[RKP5637]

111. Damn Zeus, I had forgotten all about him. Yep, hold 'em accountable!

[retread]

115. As I get older I think not stupid; instead "homo homini lupus est."

[RKP5637]

118. My Latin is from years ago, thank god for google. Yes, I agree very much. This is

the root cause of much of it ...