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[L0oniX]

This message was self-deleted by its author (L0oniX) on Fri Jan 11, 2013, 01:51 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Recursion]

1. Once RWNJ radio hosts stop sending people to troll us, or we stop feeding them (nt)

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Significant change is in the air, and these conversations must be had. These -are- really big news.

People uniting to demand some better way of living than gun culture, rejection of the zionist genocide, questions question questions about how we should do things differently to engage in a better way of living than what has most obviously failed us entirely...it's time to do this!

[L0oniX]

5. Most people come here for news and to discuss that news.

What we have now is group think and alienation for all who don't go along with it. I will bet that a lot of DU members are looking for other sources of news right now ....IMO that is not good for DU. This was supposed to be a big tent operation ....and it ain't that now. What we have now is a bunch of people pushing for gun news and that's what DU is now ...gun news. If people want to go all anti gun news then they should go to other websites that are all about that ...not try to change DU into something else.

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. Change is difficult. It's my hope that things will remain similar to what they were after guns are

done.

[L0oniX]

34. I didn't join DU to become part of a anti-gun or pro-gun group. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

38. There have been well over 400 gun deaths in the US since Sandy Hook. It's time to face the issue

and come to some sort of positive resolution.

[L0oniX]

44. IMO it's delussional to think that anything discussed here is going to change laws. n/t

There are many other children (1000's) dieing from hunger and that gets ignored. If it's time for anything it is time to be rational and balanced and not so damned singular as emotions take over.

[Fire Walk With Me]

51. Populist opinion and action has the power to shake the entire world. Look at Rush Limbaugh, losing

how many advertisers over having said something he's said over and over...the time is right for people to say ENOUGH! and things change when large groups of people agree that something has to be done. ALEC have lost corporate members due to public pressure (they're the secretive council of corporations who make laws such as "stand your ground" and get them passed in various states...and corporate influence of the state is Mussolini's definition of Fascism). The change may not be instant or always visible but the trend is there. We must push for a better way of living.

And the powers that be want everyone to believe they are powerless, that working together for positive change is useless. RESIST.

[L0oniX]

54. There are not that many active members on DU. The total membership count includes...

members who haven't been here or active for years. There is no DU function to eliminate members for lack of activity.

[Fire Walk With Me]

64. I will not be silent on issues requiring positive change. Ever. To each, their own. Peace.

[Mojorabbit]

48. There is a lot of important news being buried under

useless pissing matches about guns. I can't wait till the gun subject goes back to how it was before and I am a gun owner.

[Fire Walk With Me]

61. GD is rarely a source of really important news issues, but is a great place for large scale issue

discussion.

Things not really discussed here in great detail:

NDAA
HR347
NDRP
Bradley Manning's unConstitutional detainment
Jeremy Hammond
Anonymous in general, and especially regarding the need for citizen oversight of corrupt government
The construction of 64 drone bases inside the US and drone sales to US law enforcement
Populist uprising/movement for change
Occupy Wall Street (SOOO many haters here)
The DHS having through "programs" recruited police agencies as tentacles spying upon Americans
The prison-industrial complex, a profit-driven industry fostered by the phony war on drugs
Answers to climate change (personal and community farming, aquaponics, shifts in geography regarding fertility)
The need for people to unite against corruption, and exactly how to do it, and what is involved

There is some discussion on these topics, some more than others. The scary ones involving the elimination of our rights as both citizens and people tend to drop like lead. Matt Taibbi has great support here for his revelations of corporate, wall street, and government corruption and this is fantastic. But I'd like to see more in-depth examination of the more structural, grass-roots issues currently facing us. I know that GD shall not become as clear as an Occupy social media channel, but it's worth trying for what it's worth: involving everyone in this participatory Democracy.

[Mojorabbit]

71. All worthy important topics and topics I am interested in.

All the hand wringing about weapons at this point is just a distraction and diversion. I would love to move on to
the topics you have raised. Sustainability in small towns and cities, climate change, the creeping police state... I could
make a list as long as my arm.

[dixiegrrrrl]

112. The "no guns" rule was put there for a reason.

But, since it seems now to have been totally erased, I find the "trash thread" option works well.

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. While I agree ...

Most people come here for news and to discuss that news and agree with your conclusion that what we are experiencing does not bode well for DU; I have to disagree with your assessment of what is awry - I don't group its the "group-think" so much as the (hyperbolic 81 steps down the road) speculation that has cropped up, in the guise of "holding President Obama's feet to the fire."

[Scuba]

25. +1

[JoeyT]

35. What conversations?

A lot of people were interested in conversations. Conversations aren't what are happening. Two groups of people are screaming insults at one another then one runs to META and demands the opposing side be banned. I'm not sure what that is, but it's not a conversation.

I'm pro-control (Fairly strict control, at that) and I've attempted to blacklist every word I could think of that might be an OP about guns.

[Fire Walk With Me]

39. In a Meta sort of way, it's also time for that sort of thing to end and for reasonable

conversation to replace it for purposes of positive outcome.

Yes, I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[backwoodsbob]

40. that'sabout the gist of it nt

[HooptieWagon]

3. It doesn't seem the old rules apply anymore.

It's become a mob rule...insults, name-calling, abuse of alert system. It could easily be contained, but I guess mods aren't interested.

[randome]

7. If that's the real world, then that's the world I want to know about.

[gordianot]

4. I am truly disgusted with current direction at DU but this has happened several times.

[L0oniX]

8. Yes but this has been going on long enough IMO. I am sure I am not alone with that thought.

There are children starving and an out of control Pentagon and many other issues.

[grahamhgreen]

12. +1

[ancianita]

46. When you want to talk about the Pentagon, how can you do so without addressing the gun industry? nt

[L0oniX]

52. Great point. The Pentagon is the biggest gun nut in the room. n/t

[ancianita]

59. Their justification of the weapons industry's saturating this nation has been "defense/protection."

Now, their weapons suppliers should no longer be funded by military appropriations. I speculate, because the Pentagon hasn't ever been subject to civilian independent outside auditing of its spending, to my best recollection.

To find out how much they subsidize gun manufacturing would be a start on chiseling at their budget.

[L0oniX]

62. The Pentagon is the civilian connection to the military. "defense/protection" is the reasoning used

by both the civilian gun users and the US government. That is the irrational part about this issue. We concentrate on the local while the gorilla goes on with its world big gun agenda.

[ancianita]

66. And now its time for the civilian command to reassert control. If weapons/gun industry lobbyists

can keep buying silence and do-nothing legislators, the public has to put pressure where it can, say on the executive branch, school district boards, principals, by voting and demanding military audits.

[L0oniX]

70. I would love to see an accounting for the US being the BIG GUN of the world but...

my point of this thread is that GD should maintain it's topic agenda and not become topic singular.

[ancianita]

85. "An accounting" won't make itself happen. It takes an aware, engaged and active public that

emerges from forums like these to make what you want happen. We can't compartmentalize so much in life that we lose the interconnectedness of issues, micro or macro.

I think you might need to take a break from your exposure here. Understandable. There's an inevitable weariness that comes from constant exposure to safety and security, life/death, symptom/disease, causes/effects discussions of social issues. Just sayin.'

[L0oniX]

89. Oh I already have 4 more tabs open to other news sources...

and a few of them as news sources here are not welcome anymore. I still post some threads from them but expect that not to last much longer. Democracynow, informationclearinghouse realnews billmoyers and others. Sad to see DU become just another forum for gun control.

[ancianita]

98. This will pass. But for now it's got to be dealt with. Always give DU'ers space and time to change.

It's only fair. One shouldn't write off people once and for all, or -- just as one example -- students in schools would never surprise themselves by how much they could change because teachers gave them vision and courage.

I'm going to check out those sites.

[Skidmore]

6. These topics that you are grumbling about are part of

current events and policy is being developed and implemented around them. Talk to any woman about the implications of religion currently for her health care. Talk to the survivors and family members of these incidence of gun violence and overreach by law enforcement about the effects of guns on our society. We cannot pigeonhole topics neatly for whatever "normal" you are seeking.

[L0oniX]

13. If you want to change DU forum policy then address them with an admin.

However you or anyone else want to reframe this the forum policy is what is stated on top.

Quote:

Forum purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news.

[Skidmore]

74. These topics are not really big news now?

Most of them are headline items on the news regardless of whether you flip a channel or pick up a paper.

[L0oniX]

80. Since when does "big news" stay big news indefinitely?

[Skidmore]

99. It doesn't. However, currently

guns(killings and policy making), religion (vis a vis women's issues), and sports (doping & brain injury) are all very much big news topics and of interest to many.

[L0oniX]

102. "brain injury" ah that a big one with me ...I detest public tax supported brain bashing/football.

a great way to teach kids about legal battery and assault with life changing accumulative brain injuries. WTF

[irisblue]

9. Admins, please start tossing the gun threads back into the gungeon. n/t

[steve2470]

11. agreed nt

[City Lights]

19. Yes, please! eom

[Eleanors38]

27. +++ agree.

[hfojvt]

32. in some ways though

if the majority of DU wants that, we can do that ourselves.

Simply kick the threads on other topics which interest you and those threads will then push the gun threads off the first page - if enough people do it.

[MadrasT]

43. +1

[L0oniX]

45. +1

[closeupready]

56. I'm not sure how many dozens (hundreds?) of people here

have to continue saying that. It is a message that is not being accommodated.

I am pessimistic that it ever will be.

But of course, I +1 your post.

[BlueCaliDem]

58. + 1 eom

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. Because the first major change in federal regulation of firearms in two decades...

isn't really big news? I'd say it probably is. (And it seems to be coming, off the back of Sandy Hook and Aurora and all the other recent shooting sprees.)

[leftstreet]

14. If we're going all 1994, DU will melt down

The only safe harbor might be the Lounge

[L0oniX]

15. This is GD ...by "general" it is implied that it will not be all one sided or all one topic.

There's other DU areas for singular topic discussions.

Quote:

Forum purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news.

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Indeed. And lots of other topics are in fact discussed.

Right now, gun regulation happens to be one of those topics. (I refer you again to the fact that it is kind of really big news just at the moment, hence the reason it's allowed in GD. Don't like it? Hide thread is your friend.)

[L0oniX]

31. Some of us have IMO a more balanced world view and interests...

rather than a singular issue. I will admit I have also a singular issue and that is IMO what is more important. Is it balanced to be so over whelmed with gun control and ignore the plight of all the other children in the world who are dieing?

[Spider Jerusalem]

42. Then please talk about those other things instead of bitching

it's not that hard to do. I have no problem talking about the gun issue AND other things as well, and I'm sure other people feel the same. No-one is preventing you from posting a thread on whatever subject you want, or from replying to one.

[L0oniX]

47. You obviously are part of the problem - "bitching". n/t

[bettyellen]

81. Guns are big news now, no need to be jealous.

Things will change.

[L0oniX]

97. Oh so now I am "jealous" ...that's poor attemp at reframing the thread. n/t

[bettyellen]

105. Well, you'd rather attention go somewhere else...

But you can't control that.
All you can do us shine a light in what's important to you.
But the gun control debate is big news now. You're not going to persuade anyone to shut up OR change the subject to one you prefer. Not going to happen.

[L0oniX]

109. It's your choice to be balanced or other. Sorry if that image makes you uncomfortable...

but it does show an imbalance in the gun control debate. Just like this thread implies ...I am for balance and ....rationality. Sorry you feel that is not something that is going to happen here.

[bettyellen]

117. If you want more attention to something, then make compelling OPs...

But telling people not to post about gun control is unrealistic. Even though the deluge if trolls makes it an awkward conversation- most of us feel- including our leaders- it's time for that awkward conversation.

[L0oniX]

118. Our leaders? You mean the ones who have wars going on that now want to control guns here?

That sends a message ...of hypocrisy!

[George II]

87. It will be big news when it happens, until then...................?

[Fumesucker]

16. We now return you to our regular flamewar

[L0oniX]

20. GFD ...General Flamewar Discussion. I like it. n/t

[Coyotl]

18. There's an idea!

Albeit, GD has never been normal.

[L0oniX]

22. Why bother to have topic controls then?

GD - Forum purpose: Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news.

[Coyotl]

30. GD RULES = "No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless ..."

That needs to be a GD OP because there are few who know this.

[JReed]

21. I get what you're saying

Overall it seems there ain't much meat on them thar bones.

Half the time when folks are "talkin' politics" they ain't even talkin' politics.

[hfojvt]

23. the gun battle does seem to be one of the longest running issues du jour ever

I sorta wonder now if an actual proposal has been made other than "dump all people to the bottom of the sea".

Hard to tell, since I have avoided most of the gun threads.

[HooptieWagon]

36. Aurora shooting discussion was allowed in GD for a week.

This has been going on for a month. There is no discussion going on, its simply a flame war. It could easily be contained in RKBA, I assume its no being done so as a purity purge.

[OmahaBlueDog]

26. Doesn't this post belong in Meta?

Not to be an idiot about it, but isn't your post bemoaning the state of DU?

[L0oniX]

33. No it isn't. It's support for the rules. n/t

[hobbit709]

28. NORMAL?

[JustAnotherGen]

29. Nope

I've alerted on Gun threads in particular lately. We have an entire board dedicated to that. Until we get a Gun Control discussion board - I'm thinking I'm going to start PM'ing people on Pro Gun Control Thread started in Meta that we need slam the Activism boards with those threads and get active.

If we go there - then the pro guns all the time, in all circumstances folks can either follow us there or stick to the gun forum.

[graham4anything]

37. the NRA would love it if there was no open discussion, they do best when hidden

and its in the news

now, the NRA would love to see no talk at all because they win

but its relevant all over as now finally there are people standing up to the NRA

I know from experience, as i fought them in their place for months, with hardly anyone else anti-gun but me on their spot, and all I got was people thinking I was one of them as it doesn't differentiate

we need a anti-gun/anti-NRA forum otherwise it is not equal

More important-why does THEIR GROUP EVEN EXIST anymore
it is like someone wanting a pro-kkk group
I didn't use to think they should be censored, but after the NRA head spoke after CT, it is obvious these people are looking to overthrow the government

no liberal should even own a gun
and no person who talks about any war issue, should be allowed to own a gun

only those who think governments should own the guns and not nut job extremists like the tea party.

Keep the talk in the general discussion
those that don't want it can hide the entire threads

but the NRA would love zero talk except for NRA gun nuts. Just what they want.

and these shootings are really big news, therefore it is current.

[L0oniX]

49. Nice round about way of saying that this thread has an NRA agenda.

Thanks for your contribution.

[graham4anything]

91. you have your pet issues(that picture shows your issue

not everyone has that issue as prime importance

some would say we need to clean up guns here, then worry about other things anyhow

would you want your singular issue hidden, where only those against your point of view can keep you off, much as I found out I was when I went anti-gun into their pro-NRA pro-gun area.

it is a selfmoderating they have, no judge, no jury
the rules are different there.

[L0oniX]

93. The image portrays the inbalance, not my singular agenda.

[ancianita]

55. Agreed. If GD can't handle life and death issues that lately pervade/invade the general welfare

and national discourse, then maybe GD is really at the level of a chat room. I always understood GD to appropriately explore the range and scope of relevant national policy and politics for most Americans most of the time, not just some self-defined group like gungeoneers.

[elfin]

41. I dearly hope so

The special forums are there for a purpose - to keep GD just that - General Discussion.

[yardwork]

50. I don't mind the gun threads.

Several long-time right-wingers who hung out mostly in the gun group have now been banned, directly as a result of posts they put in GD. They lived undetected for years in the gungeon. Out here in the daylight they got exposed and banned. That's good for DU.

Also, I think that gun violence is "big news" in the U.S. I've always thought that we should be able to discuss this issue in GD. I'm fine with it.

[L0oniX]

60. For the most part there is no rational discussion about guns.

It's all attacks, insults, accusations and flame baiting ...while the gorilla in the room gets ignored.

[yardwork]

65. That could be said about posts on DU in general.

[closeupready]

53. No. I don't believe so.

Serious answer.

[Rowdyboy]

57. GD is now just an auxillary of the Gungeon and the Admins are fine with that. Its their website....

but I won't be contributing another nickle as long as they allow this shit to continue.

[L0oniX]

67. There are plenty of website devoted to the gun issue ...anti and pro.

Why let this website turn into one. I guess it will make room for another website to come along and provide worth while news sources. I am lazy. I want to come to a site and get most of ALL the news and not just about one type of news.

[closeupready]

69. I, too, won't renew my Star membership if it continues.

[Agnosticsherbet]

63. Guns and gun violence are part of the policy discussion. They belong in DU GD,not a forum set aside..

for the gun fans. The forum gun policy and RTKABA are run those who do not allow substantive discussions of policy. Discussing regulation of guns there is like discussing Gay Marriage at Free Republic or minority rights at a Klan Konvention. Real discussion of policy belongs in the light of day and should not be shoved into a dark corner where it can be hidden from those who don't want it discussed.

If you don't want to see these discussions, I understand there is a nifty feature where you can use keywords to hide those discussions.

[L0oniX]

78. If you want to change GD topic policy then complain about it to the admins. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

72. We just haven't had a long, hot, sweaty sex thread in awhile

A whole lotta pent-up aggression on the keyboards

[leftstreet]

76. I worry someone will start shooting at chemtrails

On his/her way to church, tweaked out on alternative medicines

DU could break the internet

[EarlG]

73. Our opinion

is that the ongoing national debate about gun control qualifies as "big news" and therefore discussions of gun control are currently permitted in the General Discussion forum. We'll let you know when our opinion changes. Until then, we suggest that people who don't want to read such threads use the "Trash" and "Ignore" functions.

[leftstreet]

86. !! Welcome to DU troll !!

LOL just realized no one's listening to you

Thanks for commenting on the subject

[intheflow]

101. Thanks, EarlG, for clarifying.

[OnyxCollie]

75. A woman was breastfeeding at Olive Garden and asked to see my receipt. I said, "No."

Discuss.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Evil you...

Well played.

[Arkansas Granny]

106. You should have shown her your corn flakes.

[Fuddnik]

77. Not until you kill that fucking gnat!

You've cost me 3 monitors over the years.

And now back to the smoking, porn, shooting breast-feeders, masturbation, Olive Garden, and receipt checking complex.

[L0oniX]

104. I welcome your hate. LMAO n/t

[George II]

79. Very good point....and you left out "support Democrats", seems that is a lost art here too.

I went away for almost four years (soon after Obama's election) and just returned in the spring as the 2012 Presidential election began heating up.

I'm surprised I've stuck around as long as I have after the elections. Seems lately that if one doesn't support Julian Assange and every trivial, opportunistic "Occupy XXXXXX" demonstration one is considered an outcast.

I wish this site would get back to what it was say 5 years ago - boy do I miss some of the bloggers back then AND the weekly "Top Ten Conservative Idiots"!

[L0oniX]

84. ...as well as being a Democratic big tent. Yea I wish we had some of the old bloggers...

who left us or were TS'd. DU IMO has moved to a much more immature clickish insult gang with a wacked out anything of the moment goes and out of control jury system.

[Taverner]

82. WTF is normal?

I thought this was normal?

Circular firing squad - keeps things interesting

[PDJane]

83. Define 'normal.'

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Forgive me, but are we having a national

Discussion on gun policy right at the momemt?

[L0oniX]

111. "we" ...not so much on other news websites as is here. Besides that...

the thread was not originally about gun control but has been reframed to be that.

[Buzz Clik]

90. Has it ever been normal? I doubt it.

[Populist_Prole]

92. Man you said it! K&R

Anymore, I have to scroll through 4 pages of tpoics to find interesting ones to read.

to those that DO want to discuss the topics the OP mentioned: You have. Nine ways to sunday.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming............

[L0oniX]

107. ...

[HappyMe]

94. What is irritating the hell out of me

is going into a thread about some other subject not related to guns at all and finding some gun related response (usually anti) there.

There are oodles of gun threads, no need to crap on completely unrelated topics.

[L0oniX]

100. ..as what has happened here. The thread is/was about topic rules.

Now IMO the anti gunners have trampled on the thread to justify the takeover of GD.

[LittleBlue]

96. I wish it would. Every thread is now a rant about guns, sexism or racism.

Not actual news, just continuing debates from other threads

[lynne]

103. Right now politics, issues, and current events are all about guns -

- seems to me that GD is following the rules.

[DainBramaged]

108. Are there sins or just sinners? Are there miracles or just dumb luck? Are there guns or ammo?

[L0oniX]

110. I thought you had me on ignore. n/t

[DainBramaged]

113. I'm still mad at you, u still mad bro?

no star, my list is full for now, guess I'll have to deal
. So was my question good or just Fluffernutter?

[L0oniX]

115. Not angry at you ...but I hate that damned cat. Dang wife is all over that thing. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

114. The OP, now deleted, was discussing whether or not gun discussions belong in GD.

[Rex]

116. A self-delete would work out better imo.

Otherwise people can continue to post in the thread.