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[RobertEarl]

This message was self-deleted by its author (RobertEarl) on Mon Jan 14, 2013, 01:15 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Skittles]

1. what I have noticed

is they fixate on an issue - something that bothers them, and it becomes blown up every time they drink

[RobertEarl]

2. My friend is like that

He says when he drinks the pain goes away.

I know the last time i got a buzz on whiskey (which i used to drink a good bit of) two hours later i was in a deep depressive state. It actually caused me pain. Luckily i am not alcoholic.

[Skittles]

3. when they are sober they feel pain; when they are drunk they feel nothing

it's a dreadfully sad way to live

[elleng]

4. Could be noticing rage due to frustration,

feeling lack of ability to conquer the awful disease.

Read about it here:

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/

[RobertEarl]

8. Yeah

But i see and hear them when they are sober get upset of things that happen well outside their sphere. Not just upset, but outrageous, over things that others can just talk about and merely shake our heads.

So I am wondering what came first, the outrage or the drinking?

[elleng]

10. Alcoholism is a congenital condition;

either one is born with it or not. Most with the condition 'maintain' a level of alcohol in their systems regularly, and don't always appear to be under the influence. I have direct experience with such, among family. Saw outrageous behavior when not apparently under the influence rather often. Notice they can 'drink us under the table?' After certain points, they APPEAR to be under the influence.

Among alcoholics, the drinking came first. Heavy social drinking is another matter entirely. For those, the outrage may come first.

[RobertEarl]

15. Hmmm, makes sense

I drank a lot, but could and did easily turn it down. Same with most of my family......

So the rage may be a product of the alcoholism (alco holism?) and not the other way around? We know being intoxicated is described as having a toxin in the body and maybe that leads to the rage as a symptom of constant toxicity?

[elleng]

23. Rage you're seeing may be frustration

at inability to handle the addiction which is inherent, and/or inability to handle ordinary aspects of life when 'over the edge,' having drunk more than merely to maintain, and due to illness which follows years of 'over'-drinking.

Alcoholics' bodies DEMAND alcohol.

Please read about it; it should help. Complex, but real and true: http://www.lakesidemilam.com/

[Le Taz Hot]

5. I lost a friendship of 30 years

due to alcohol. We became instant friends back in the 70's. My friend had been a heavy drinker for as long as I'd known her. The last few years she got to the point where she was combative over so many things. I mean, full battle mode to the point that you just couldn't reason with her. One final incident caused an irreparable rift between us which saddens me deeply. I don't know about all alcoholics, I can just refer to my experience as it relates to one in particular. She's in her late 60's now and, because of the endless party girl lifestyle, well, she's in tragically bad shape.

[RobertEarl]

9. I lost a best friend to the liquor

Liver gave out. That's when i pretty much quit drinking. Now, i don't ever drink around alcoholics.

[AverageJoe90]

14. I'm sorry to hear about that.

Yeah, it's always sad to lose a friend to any kind of addiction, period.....

[Fumesucker]

6. Don't listen to him, it's the liquor talking..

The phenomenon is common enough to have a phrase associated with it.

Alcohol loosens inhibitions and suppresses judgement even before that, whatever they have on their mind is going to come out.

[RobertEarl]

12. Yeah

But when they get drunk, unless i want to babysit them to keep them from harm, i get the hell away.

So what i have noticed is that when they are sober, the least little thing gets them railing. What comes first? The rage or the drinking?

[aikoaiko]

7. And the crazy part is that it can be worse when they stop drinking without...

...any insight and resolution to their issues.

Sometimes the rage leads to aggression directed to others and other times toward themselves.

Its sad and hard to watch.

[AverageJoe90]

11. Not all, but possibly many of them, yes.

Granted, I've never known any boozehounds myself, but I've heard a LOT of horror stories in the past.....

[Socal31]

13. I can say with 100% certainty....No.

The answer will be "no" to pretty much any question that asks if a certain group of people act the same way.

If you are trying to play detective and diagnose any addict from behavior, that that could be very misleading.

If you you already know the person is an alcoholic, then the only way to know for sure what behavior changes have been caused by the abuse is if you know how they were before alcohol came in the picture.

There are several substances (some legal, some not) and natural conditions that can cause the symptom you describe.

I would bet it is safe to say that alcoholics absolutely have a higher percentage of rage, depression, etc than the general public.

[RobertEarl]

21. Just trying to figure out what i am, at root, dealing with

And the rage, if it can be controlled, may lead to a better life?

Like i tell my friend, a beer is not going to solve your problem. And neither does rage, right? So how do we get them to stop going on these sober rampages? And when not sober, how to keep them a happy drunk?

Like i say, all the heavily addicted types in my life all have the same rage, and non addicts do not. Granted, it is a small field but it does correlate.

Just trying to figure out all the angles.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

16. Not all of them

I've certainly known a few ragers- mostly the men- but the women have mostly been either happy drunks or sad drunks (usually depending on how they feel things are going in their love life) I think it's maybe more accurate to say that alcoholics live in a heightened emotional state, thus their prevaling emotion is amplified- and anger is pretty common among people who have drinking problems.

[Iggo]

17. No.

[Jumping John]

18. The alcoholic (my Father) that i was active with would become enraged after not reacting to the

issues that angered him. He ignored these issues until they festered into a rage that would sometime be ignited by the smallest unimportant things that you could think of.

He often told my mother that he was tired of bending over backwards to please her in his rages. Sometimes he was sober, but if he had been drinking it was worse.

My mother would use these episodes to make hime feel guilty afterwards. This did nothing to help his problem of low self esteem.

My mother was so good with her manipulations that I think she enjoyed her role and I think she saw it as a kind of power that she had over my father. I think she was really a psychopath who enjoyed the misery of others. Maybe that was caused by my father's drinking also.

I know that she would lie to my father sometimes about me and he would use it as an opportunity to go into one of his sober rages and beat me. I think my mother though it was better for him to rage against me than her.

I think that alcoholics are misguided. But I also think that their enablers are sick, wicked and evil. But that is just from my point of view. I know that alcoholics look at life in a sick way too. Insanity maybe.

I think my Grand father was an alkie also. I know my uncles were. I don't drink. But when I did I acted out in rages also. I try to avoid conflict because of how I was raised.

My father stopped drinking and became a dry drunk. It was slightly better that his binge drinking that he did after issues became so intolerable that he would lower his inhibitions enough through his drinking to show his anger.

I see alcoholics as a slightly better person than the psychopaths like my mother who care only for themselves at the expense of others.

There is more I could say about the insanity but I would rather not.

[RobertEarl]

22. My best wishes for you, John

You do know none of it was your fault. None of it.

[Trajan]

19. Hyper vigilence is a trait of a rageaholic ...

I was married to a rageaholic ..... Turned out she was bipolar, and the 'rage' episodes were actually expressions of her manic phase .... with hyper vigilence as one of the traits used to provide reinforcement and justification for her feelings of anger .... There was always somebody doing something wrong to piss her off.

Her alcoholism was a result of her being whipped around by her manic and depressive episodes throughout her life, which created tension and a sense of chaos in her life ... Alcohol was a sanctuary, of sorts ...

She has been clean for 20 years this year, and is on her meds: Things are much better for her now ....

[nyquil_man]

20. Many addicts are ashamed of their inability to stop.

They seek to deflect this by constantly pointing out perceived errors of, and flaws in, others.

Very often, spending large amounts of time with an alcoholic begins to sound like a Festivus 'airing of grievances.'

[RobertEarl]

24. Yes, that's what it has been like

I usually tell them to take a hike, or I do. But this guy has so many depending on him.

Thanks for the response, it will help me see things more clearly.