The Lance Armstrong Fiasco Means

[MineralMan]

that we should learn the lesson that professional sports figures are not, and should not be held up as models for anyone. They are doing what they do for money, and money leads to all sorts of non-model behavior.

The hero worship of professional athletes is badly misplaced and this, among many other examples, should disabuse us of any thinking that they are heroes.

We should not expect them to set the standards, since they so often fail to behave as valid models of exemplary behavior.

[HappyMe]

1. Yes. The same thing goes

for singers and actresses and actors.

[MineralMan]

2. Yes, it should.

Again, we should no look to people who are essentially entertainers for cues about how to act. Sports figures are entertainers, just like popular musicians and actors are entertainers. They get paid to entertain us, not to serve as models for us and our youngsters.

[Frank Cannon]

38. I don't agree.

High-paid entertainers are like any other wealthy business people. There are good ones (e.g., Bill Gates) and douchebags (e.g., Steve Jobs). George Clooney does a lot of good work and even has his own orbital satellite that monitors ethnic cleansing in Africa, for crying out loud. You may not call that "role model" behavior, but I wish I could do that.

[alp227]

53. Arguably politicians too.

[99Forever]

3. On this MM...

... we are in agreement. I have thought this for several decades. They are grownups, playing children's games for a living, and making hefty piles of money doing so.

Heroes?

Not so much.

[MineralMan]

9. Thanks. It has been in my thinking for years, too.

There are many heroes, and they come in all areas of life. We should publicize heroic actions better and reduce our news coverage of sports figures and entertainers.

[Fumesucker]

4. You could say the same about most walks of life

Genuine heroes usually don't get much recognition I think.

[MineralMan]

10. They do get coverage, but only briefly.

Our attention spans are short, and athletes and entertainers are always in the spotlight, so they often overshadow those who are truly heroes.

[Fumesucker]

23. I'm thinking more the everyday heroes

Like 1StrongBlackMan's OP about stopping and helping someone broken down he put up the other day.

There were several heroes in that story actually.

[MineralMan]

39. Yes. There are occasions of everyday heroism

every day. We had one here in Minnesota, where a young guy discovered a woman's car in a water-filled ditch in the cold MN weather recently. He was on his bicycle. He went to the car, gave the woman something to eat and notified authorities. She had been in that car, with her feet in cold water for 18 hours, and is now recovering in the hospital.

The young guy has been called a hero in news reports. He doesn't think he's a hero at all, but just someone who encountered someone in danger and acted. I call him a great guy, who did the right thing.

I have a high bar for heroism. For me, heroism requires some action that is a serious risk to the person taking that action, with the action being in aid of another person in danger. There's lots of that going on, too, and in every community in the country. We don't hear about those everyday heroes very often on the 24-hour news cycle, but they get local coverage. We have plenty of great role models, and they're in every community, too. We just need to pay attention to reports of what they do in our local area and recognize them.

[randome]

5. I'll stop drawing attention to my new sig line after this. Promise.

But it was inspired by Lance Armstrong.

[MineralMan]

16. No problem. It's a very good signature line!

[cantbeserious]

6. Sports Worship - Another Adolescent Past Time Practiced By Child-Like Adults

eom

[Buzz Clik]

8. emphasis on "worship"

Sports are a fantastic training ground for people of all ages.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. Almost as bad as worshipping politicians.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Charles Barkley was 20 years ahead of the curve.

He refused to let someone hang the "bad role model" moniker on him, despite horrible behavior in public places.

"I'm not paid to be a role model. I'm paid to wreak havoc on the basketball court."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1993/06/27/i-m-not-a-role-model.html

[MineralMan]

12. Yes, I remember him saying that, and thought it was

something important. Sports activities are excellent training for cooperation and leadership, of course, but worshiping successful athletes beyond what they do in their sport is a big mistake.

[cantbeserious]

13. Emphasis On Paid Here - Should Anyone Paid To "Wreak Havoc" Ever Be Idolized?

eom

[HappyMe]

18. Whoosh!

By saying that, he meant do his job, and do it well.

[cantbeserious]

20. Missing The Point Entirely I See

eom

[HappyMe]

21. ...

[cantbeserious]

24. Hope That Denial Works For Out Well For You

eom

[HappyMe]

26. What are you talking about?

[cantbeserious]

28. All I See Is Someone Running Around With Their Hair On Fire - The Image Is One Of Denial

eom

[HappyMe]

29. lol!

Enjoy your day.

[lunatica]

63. The hair on fire guy is just looking for his hair on fire gal

They lost each other when they ran for help for this guy

[Buzz Clik]

22. I didn't idolize Barkley and still don't. But he was a force on the basketball court.

I'm not sure what your point is. Barkley was hard-nosed and gifted at his trade, but he was not a dirty player.

Today, he has mellowed into an insightful analyst with a great sense of humor.

[cantbeserious]

27. He Characterized Himself Not Me - What He said Speaks Volumes About Professional Sports In America

eom

[Buzz Clik]

30. No, not at all.

However, you have stated quite clearly your disgust for sports. My guess is that we could substitute the name of any sports figure, and you would feel the same way.

By the way, putting "eom" or "nt" in the body of your message doesn't accomplish anything. You wouldn't tape the note, "Doorbell is broken. Please knock" on the inside of your front door, would you?

[Skittles]

51. I remember this cringe-worthy lack of class

while he was representing America:

Barkley was also part of an ugly moment in the 1992 Olympics when he intentionally elbowed Angola player Herlander Coimbra in the chest during a 116–48 rout of that team.

[Buzz Clik]

54. Yep.

At about 3:00 in this clip:

No idea what Barkley felt had been done to him.

[larkrake]

56. How do you know he was a clean player? Few if any player is

[Buzz Clik]

58. If essentially every player is not clean, what would constitute a dirty player?

Not defending Barkley, but I'm lost in this.

[malaise]

11. They are role models

for Wall Street, Big Pharma et al - greed and wealth by any means necessary.

[MineralMan]

14. I don't think so. I think the corrupting influence of money affects

people in all fields equally. Wall Street and other business people need no role models. The money and power are more than sufficient to corrupt.

[cantbeserious]

15. As Designated Role Models For Big Business - What Does That Say About The Big Businesses?

eom

[malaise]

34. We already know

[MineralMan]

17. Armstrong won may races, but is a loser in the rest of his life.

Very sad business, this is. The sooner we forget about him, the better, I think.

[pipi_k]

25. Lance who?

I've forgotten about him already...

Seriously, though...

All the while he was fighting off accusations of doping so vehemently, going so far as to bring lawsuits against people whom he thought were slandering and libeling him, I thought, OMG, with that much conviction he MUST be innocent!

So, if he had only lied, then I'd be much more likely to cast a kinder eye on his transgressions.

But he went beyond that. He bullied others. He slandered and libeled others, in a couple of cases, to the point where those people's lives were ruined.

He shows no remorse for that.

It disgusts me to see his face.

Anyway, I agree with you. No sports figure or actor or music artist should ever be held up as a role model.

[Bluenorthwest]

19. It means liars are are common, but not really well liked....

That whole 'what a tangled web' thing. What Armstrong did is very common in sports, note that yet another athlete is embroiled in a scandal about his lack of honesty, his need to lie. Mendacity is a defining feature in sports culture, nearly sacred because so many of the games are fixed and so many fix the willingly. The culture of secrets is why they get the Sanduskies and the Michael Vicks as as well as the Armstrongs.

[CrispyQ]

31. CNN posted some viewer comments yesterday.

Two comments basically stated that if you have to cheat to win, that's ok. Sportsmanship is no longer a part of professional sports. Maybe it never was. A few years ago some basketball player was pissed at something a fan said & went into the stands & tried to punch him. He got the equivalent of a slap on the wrist for that.

Our culture is a cesspool. The fundies think that it's because people turned away from God, when really it's because we turned away from each other. We glorify the rugged individual who doesn't depend on or need anyone else & also doesn't care for or respect anyone else. We've turned our back on community & our society is meaner & nastier because of it.

[freshwest]

40. Very well said, needs to heard more.

[thatgemguy]

44. My observation

Our society is more about competition rather than co-operation. We have taught that lesson to a generation and now live with the consequences.

[CrispyQ]

52. Individuals compete, communities cooperate.

We're on the same page!

There is balance in everything, but we have swung very far to the individual/competitive side.

[fishwax]

32. some are, and some aren't -- as with any profession, really

And, in most cases, people who are models in some area will fall short in others.

In the specific, there is often much that is admirable and worth emulating about professional athletes, both on and off the field, but as with anyone one admires it is worth sifting wheat from chaff. I agree with your statement about misplaced hero worship, though, with respect to a kind of cultural default that affords an inflated base level of attention to athletes in general.

[WinkyDink]

33. I think this is an unwarranted sweeping generalization.

[MineralMan]

36. Thanks for your reply. I don't think it is unwarranted, though.

When we make professional sports figures into role models, we make a bad choice, generally. Being role models isn't what they get paid for. Winning is what they get paid for. We set ourselves up for disappointment when we expect more from them in general. No doubt there have been some who were suitable role models, but it was not their achievements in sports that made them so.

Sports are games only. They don't really reflect life. When adults are paid for playing games, nothing about those games entitles them to any greater measure of respect than anyone else is owed. they remain individual adults. The sport they play has no relevance as far as their character is concerned. A winner on the field may be a loser in life, and we've seen more than enough examples of that to know that success in sports is no indication of character.

[randome]

35. I agree with you entirely.

But I would also point out that Armstrong went out of his way to convince people he SHOULD be a role model. For those who may not have appropriate role models in their lives and are searching for someone they can admire, he welcomed them into his world then spit on them.

Our infatuation with role models and 'heroes' is wrong but let's don't absolve Armstrong of his blame in this, either.

[MineralMan]

37. You are right. Armstrong is, and was, an asshole

to have done that. It's more a pity that we believed him. I never paid any real attention to his denials, though, because he was just another guy making money doing something, as far as I was concerned. I paid no attention to him, other than that. That's where we make a mistake - in assuming that professional success has any relationship to character. Clearly, it does not.

[randome]

41. The only celebrity who could truly disappoint me, I think, would be Stephen Colbert.

Other than that, I think I'm good for whatever quirky turnabouts the world wants to throw at me!

[glowing]

55. Actually, I never believed him.. especially knowing he had prostate cancer and that was something

that would be caused by steroid use; especially in somone young and in supposedly excellent health. And he's always had a look in his eyes like asshole psycho's do.. Kinda like a Bush or some other evil little f-wad.

Never once got on a Lance bandwagon. Never once donated, knowingly, to one of his causes. When corporations make money off of human suffering that is cancer, it really puts me off.. I've never liked the "pink ribbons" either. With all the money made off of cancer, you would think a cure would be had and most "carcinogens" and other cancer causing agents limited and widespread.. along with a healthy diet of anti-oxidents and other "super" foods.

Anyway, he's a waste of a life. Its sad for him that he lived an entire life as a lie and a cheat. And to me it looks like he's sad that he was only caught.

[SHRED]

42. As someone here said: "Don't look for heroes...be a hero"

[randome]

47. It helped when I re-read Action Comics #775 at the time.

I think that's about the most inspirational Superman story of the decade.

[gtar100]

43. The overwhelming influence of money in sport ruined it for me

I don't care for any professional sports anymore, though I was a huge fan as a kid. But I still enjoy watching little league, middle school, and high school sports because the pure passion for the sport is still there and being a team player is truly valued. After that, the big team sports get tainted with greed.

[Crowman1979]

45. I'd only be pissed if I was one of the cyclists that lost a "Tour de France" to him.

[robinkc]

46. Lance Armstrong

I have been a bicycle rider for 30 yrs.I'm sorry to say I didn't see the second half of the Oprah interview with Lance. I was wondering if he said anything about the training involved.Drugs go only a little way when your racing and training up 5 mountain passes in 1 day.

[MineralMan]

48. All of those racers train hard. It is the doping that gives some an unfair

advantage. So, the likelihood is that most of the winning cyclists dope. When winning is everything, nothing is allowed to stand in the way of winning.

That's the core of the problem, and it's something that won't change without very strictly enforced standards. I suspect that the governing body of bicycle racing internationally deliberately looked the other way when confronted with the reality of the amount of doping going on.

I do not know if the sport can recover, but I don't much care, either.

[SHRED]

49. He owes Greg LeMond BIG TIME

Lance is a cheat and scoundrel who has ruined other people's lives.


---

[MineralMan]

50. That's a separate matter, and one I know nothing about.

Armstrong gave himself an illegal advantage over his competition. He cheated. That's enough information for me. I don't really follow bicycle racing.

[larkrake]

57. he did not have an advantage. At that time, everyone blood doped

from all countries, as the winner, he was hounded by jealous competitors who also doped. They even give jumping horses cocaine. Sports are sponsor driven and it is the corps who turn them into heros. Lance won those races fairly, beating other dopers.

[Nikia]

59. Most people who have been my role models have been flawed

Both well known figures like Bill Clinton and people from my personal life, including family. I suspect that at various points in my life that I have been role models for others as well. When I know that, it pains me to be so imperfect. I suspect that being flawed is part of the human condition even and maybe especially for people who are successful.

[MineralMan]

64. That's a good point. No doubt most of our role models

are flawed. I was an avid reader of biographies as a kid, and most of my role models came from those. Generally, the flaws were not central to such biographies, though. It was only later that I learned of the flaws in some of those I considered role models. By then, though, I was aware that most people have flaws of character.

[Rex]

60. It means the Armstrongagedden is upon us!

[RedCappedBandit]

62. Agreed