Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:42 PM

I changed the channel when Battle Hymn of the Republic started

The inauguration should be a secular ceremony.

As it is, it's like a Christian revival meeting.

Turned off and tuned out.

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325 replies	Author	Time	Post
I changed the channel when Battle Hymn of the Republic started (Original post)	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	OP
good	samsingh	Jan 2013	#1
I'm not real religious anymore either, BUT those choir members sang their a$$e$ off!	TheDebbieDee	Jan 2013	#255
Cool story.	Drunken Irishman	Jan 2013	#2
Thanks for sharing.	WilliamPitt	Jan 2013	#3
Then you missed something spectacular.	lonestarnot	Jan 2013	#4
As a non-Christian, I only missed feeling marginalized.	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#11
I've been an atheist for over 40 years.	MineralMan	Jan 2013	#130
+1	dmr	Jan 2013	#235
I'm also an atheist, but I teared up.	trof	Jan 2013	#270
Amazing Grace is fine, but	ashling	Jan 2013	#316
Maybe it's an an aquired taste?	trof	Jan 2013	#325
well said, Mr. MM. Perfect.	Whisp	Jan 2013	#276
Its too bad that other people's beliefs offend you so much	rbixby	Jan 2013	#149
Christians are blind and deaf to this	Warpy	Jan 2013	#214
+1000	politicat	Jan 2013	#241
No, the original reply that spawned this sub was intentionally offensive.	Egalitarian Thug	Jan 2013	#269
Sure, spectacular pandering.	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#12
The assumption that everyone believes in God is not "spectacular."	forestpath	Jan 2013	#42
I agree.	Swamp Lover	Jan 2013	#252
The battle hymn is not a religious piece of music	nadinbrzezinski	Jan 2013	#5
The hell it isn't	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#15
"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!"	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#16
Have you read the words lately?	Brickbat	Jan 2013	#43
Bullshit.	forestpath	Jan 2013	#45
It's an abolition tune	WolverineDG	Jan 2013	#74
Some reports say the tune came from camp meetings, and then was sung as "John Brown's Body."	Brickbat	Jan 2013	#82
Since the majority of abolitionists were Christians	WolverineDG	Jan 2013	#105
Which doesn't change the fact that they're religious.	Brickbat	Jan 2013	#129
Still that in the UK	dipsydoodle	Jan 2013	#254
Exactly.	nadinbrzezinski	Jan 2013	#106
"In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea"	Occulus	Jan 2013	#101
An abolitionist tune	nadinbrzezinski	Jan 2013	#109
I knew that very well. Having performed it myself numerous times, I probably am more aware of that	Occulus	Jan 2013	#140
Not gona re type this	nadinbrzezinski	Jan 2013	#148
Well, it does have a smack of "end times" fervor...	cynatnite	Jan 2013	#133
Patriotic	nadinbrzezinski	Jan 2013	#143
I'm not crazy about the song, but based on your points...	cynatnite	Jan 2013	#150
You welcome.	nadinbrzezinski	Jan 2013	#158
Want some cheese with that whine? Nt	geek tragedy	Jan 2013	#6
I want LESS Chees-us	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#18
lol. The battle hymn was short, then they got back to business. but oath was on big bible	Liberal_in_LA	Jan 2013	#246
Yeah, fuck anyone who doesn't believe, right?	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#77
No, just those who wallow in victim hood	geek tragedy	Jan 2013	#159
Think harder	Occulus	Jan 2013	#212
The Battle Hymn is an anti-slavery song.	geek tragedy	Jan 2013	#244
Apparently we Atheists are not allowed to enjoy religious music.	Odin2005	Jan 2013	#321
why don't you save your ire for something that actually matters, like state funding to religious	HiPointDem	Jan 2013	#258
i don't believe in God and i find the OP stupid, reminds me of wingnuts crying about spanish	JI7	Jan 2013	#278
How petty.....	llmart	Jan 2013	#7
I feel sorry for you that you can't understand that religion, and a specific religion, Christianity,	HERVEPA	Jan 2013	#65
Then you'll have to feel sorry for our President too....	llmart	Jan 2013	#100
The inauguration is for everyone, not just the majority	HERVEPA	Jan 2013	#108
What a silly argument....	llmart	Jan 2013	#110
I feel sorry for you...	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#115
I DO feel sorry for him.	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#112
Did you feel sorry for gay people when they complained about Rick Warren last time? (nt)	jeff47	Jan 2013	#249
I stopped reading your post when I saw your Rudolph avatar	FSogol	Jan 2013	#8
On radio it	CalFresh	Jan 2013	#9
Are you serious?	bama_blue_dot	Jan 2013	#182
The Teabaggers wouldn't be singing an ABOLITIONIST song.	Odin2005	Jan 2013	#323
You showed them	Renew Deal	Jan 2013	#10
Feel better?	Politicub	Jan 2013	#13
No shortage of bankers lackeys up there either	RedstDem	Jan 2013	#14
You missed a beautiful solo. n/t	ChazII	Jan 2013	#17
Good	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#23
But you were fine with the opening benediction?	Mrs. Overall	Jan 2013	#19
No, I wasn't fine with it. But Battle Hymn of the Republic pushed me over the edge.	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#31
Obama is taking his oath right now--thank goodness you have tuned out!!	Mrs. Overall	Jan 2013	#35
I already saw his oath yesterday	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#44
But he took his oath on a Bible yesterday--fuming about that?	Mrs. Overall	Jan 2013	#50
OK. Do what you want.	MineralMan	Jan 2013	#20
It was beautiful.	NOLALady	Jan 2013	#21
you missed out then	sad-cafe	Jan 2013	#22
Too bad. It was a beautiful performance; the soloist had a gorgeous voice.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Jan 2013	#24
I thought so too.	Sekhmets Daughter	Jan 2013	#27
Very pretty, too.	Aristus	Jan 2013	#30
I'm sure it would have been fine -- IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#38
I'm not a believer, either.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Jan 2013	#61
Yup. I've been an atheist since 1965. But I've performed all manner	MineralMan	Jan 2013	#137
Judy Garland gave a rendition of the song in honor of JFK	duffyduff	Jan 2013	#302
why ? non christians and atheists like myself enjoy listening to it also	JI7	Jan 2013	#292
NPR thought is was so beautiful	No Vested Interest	Jan 2013	#247
Too bad, you missed an	Sekhmets Daughter	Jan 2013	#25
Good grief.	HappyMe	Jan 2013	#26
+1000	narnian60	Jan 2013	#62
100% agree with you	Siwsan	Jan 2013	#83
!	In_The_Wind	Jan 2013	#28
Well ...	1StrongBlackMan	Jan 2013	#29
+1. It's a performance, almost art.	Buzz Clik	Jan 2013	#33
Exactly, tons of classical music	treestar	Jan 2013	#48
And I'll bet you would have stood up and cheered had Bush included this in his inaugurations	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#49
I did not watch the Bush unauguration.	Buzz Clik	Jan 2013	#55
Not when I am NOT Christian and this is supposed to be	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#34
Well ...	1StrongBlackMan	Jan 2013	#46
Those with religious privilege are loathe to recognize that fact...	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#104
Who says?	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#163
The fact that it was chosen to be part of this was political...	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#99
Okay n/t	1StrongBlackMan	Jan 2013	#102
The only "performance" is going on in this thread	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Jan 2013	#192
And might those be "the Grapes of Wrath"?	thucythucy	Jan 2013	#195
That's what the remote is for.	Buzz Clik	Jan 2013	#32
many associate it with Lincoln	OKNancy	Jan 2013	#36
Inaugurations, coronations...	whatchamacallit	Jan 2013	#37
Dictators don't have inaugurations....	Historic NY	Jan 2013	#76
I feel the exact same way. Sick of this religious stuff - this shouldn't feel like a	forestpath	Jan 2013	#39
There is no functional utility to an inauguration ceremony	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#52
Apparently you don't understand that it excludes a lot of people.	forestpath	Jan 2013	#64
No, it doesn't exclude anyone	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#90
You can't rationalize it with all your words and insults. It excludes people.	forestpath	Jan 2013	#94
Damn those pesky facts, I didn't get my pony!	name not needed	Jan 2013	#124
Christians can only seem to insult, why is that?	forestpath	Jan 2013	#134
Post removed	Post removed	Jan 2013	#142
I didn't call you a Christian. And I am not intimidated by your rage and threats.	forestpath	Jan 2013	#152
You sound like Sarah Palin right now	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Jan 2013	#194
Yeah, sure.	JoeyT	Jan 2013	#314
Sorry, sir....	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Jan 2013	#319
It excludes many.	Igel	Jan 2013	#157
Oh, he knows, he just doesn't care.	cleanhippie	Jan 2013	#127
the role of ritual in human society	arely staircase	Jan 2013	#261
Having sung in various choirs...	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#264
It's a historically significant song	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#40
I think it's OK	treestar	Jan 2013	#41
"So help me God"? Swearing in on a Bible?	panader0	Jan 2013	#47
Where did I mention those? Nowhere. YOU did.	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#54
I mention them because they are a part of the inauguration	panader0	Jan 2013	#71
Nice try.	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#114
Actually, they aren't.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#164
Yes, those two should also be removed	jeff47	Jan 2013	#162
I can appreciate your sentiments but find it rude to try to bring others down. nm	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#51
Too fucking bad	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#57
Have you ever heard of Dale Carnegie? nm	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#63
My hero.	WilliamPitt	Jan 2013	#79
Martin Luther King Jr. must have really irritated you	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#118
I cannot find the words	chillfactor	Jan 2013	#205
Wow. So we have to keep quiet so we don't make others feel bad?	forestpath	Jan 2013	#69
I think the OP was rude and counter productive to the argument	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#197
And I think much of the response was so ugly and insulting that no discussion would ever	forestpath	Jan 2013	#202
Exactly. That's why I thought it wasnt an appropriate time to bring	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#203
Yes, that chap marching in the street around Selma was just so disruptive	jeff47	Jan 2013	#210
Huh? Are you trying to equate the OP with the Civil Rights struggle? Good grief.	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#216
You couldn't figure it out from the post?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#253
I absolutely agree with you. My only complaint was that I dont think it	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#257
You get in a fight when it happens.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#262
Guess what? The Civil Rights leaders were MINISTERS. Get over yourself.	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#299
Relevance?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#309
Yeah, the seats at the back of the bus still get to the same destination, right? (nt)	jeff47	Jan 2013	#165
Are you trying to be cute and support the OP? If so, do you support the	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#201
The ceremony should be secular	jeff47	Jan 2013	#204
I think you broke the record for most logical fallacies in one post. Go bother someone	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#217
Just like those pesky gays getting upset about Rick Warren, right?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#250
You lost me at hello. nm	rhett o rick	Jan 2013	#265
Because you think I'm talking about you?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#267
Rick Warren is a Gay Basher who wants Gays to be killed, how the fuck is	JI7	Jan 2013	#280
It's comparable because people told gays to shut up or it wasn't the time.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#285
context Matters , complaining about someone who wants to kill gays is not the same to me	JI7	Jan 2013	#288
There is a significant difference	davidthegnome	Jan 2013	#218
It's just words?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#242
your comparisons are pathetic, comparing saying the N word to someone mentioning God	JI7	Jan 2013	#282
They're just words. According to you, that means they're just fine. (nt)	jeff47	Jan 2013	#283
one is hate speech, just mentioning God in itself is not hateful, that was the problem with Rick	JI7	Jan 2013	#284
Yet they're still just words.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#287
you are the one saying it's just words because you lost the argument	JI7	Jan 2013	#289
No, I'm referring to everyone else in this thread	jeff47	Jan 2013	#293
depends on the context, if a woman used "shut up woman" against a friend	JI7	Jan 2013	#294
So you're unable to read anything else in this thread?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#295
equivalent to what ? how about the Poet saying Namaste ?	JI7	Jan 2013	#298
I'm an agnostic from northern Maine	davidthegnome	Jan 2013	#304
And few passing mentions would get a similar response from me.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#310
I agree in principle	davidthegnome	Jan 2013	#311
And you complained about past Inaugurals where, exactly?	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#297
Please look up the history of the Battle Hymn of the Republic.	janx	Jan 2013	#53
+1	Mrs. Overall	Jan 2013	#56
I know its history -- I still find it utterly inappropriate and exclusionary	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#59
It is a metaphor	treestar	Jan 2013	#72
The melody originally supplied a song celebrating the life and death	coalition_unwilling	Jan 2013	#75
Yes indeed. And interestingly, there were TWO John Browns.	janx	Jan 2013	#125
Your post is one reason my long-running love (hate) affair with DU continues	coalition_unwilling	Jan 2013	#131
. . .	janx	Jan 2013	#169
Interesting story. Thanks for posting. (In elementary school we were taught that the	1monster	Jan 2013	#170
Maybe your teachers didn't want to get graphic...	janx	Jan 2013	#209
The line "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored" always	coalition_unwilling	Jan 2013	#272
Nathaniel Bacon is upset at being overlooked.	historylovr	Jan 2013	#306
From one secular being to another:	Comrade_McKenzie	Jan 2013	#58
You can sit down and shut up if you want. I'm not that obedient.	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#66
If you are offended, it is your right to turn it off and I do not fault you for that at all. However	1monster	Jan 2013	#190
whatever your thoughts about the	Carolina	Jan 2013	#60
Whatevs.	tallahasseedem	Jan 2013	#67
It was written during the civil war, and like it or not it is part of the history of this country.	still_one	Jan 2013	#68
So I guess that today is meaningless to you?	greatauntoftriplets	Jan 2013	#70
That's pretty nasty. You think Dr. King's christianity is what made him great?	Walk away	Jan 2013	#84
It's funny how nasty so-called Christians get when you dare to	forestpath	Jan 2013	#87
It never ceases to amaze me how often DUer's put extra words in my mouth	MotherPetrie	Jan 2013	#111
I didn't. I am an atheist and I love that song.	NYC Liberal	Jan 2013	#73
+1	a la izquierda	Jan 2013	#85
+1 apparently you are not an absolutist, which would, of course, mean that you are God.	patrice	Jan 2013	#155
But...you're saying I don't believe in myself?!	NYC Liberal	Jan 2013	#167
Some poets say you are a song & you don't have to believe in music to hear it.	patrice	Jan 2013	#176
Ditto that. I am an atheist, but I always like that song. n/t	RebelOne	Jan 2013	#189
When Chuck Schumer introduced it I thought that was weird. It's a Jesus song...	Walk away	Jan 2013	#78
Oy vey.	a la izquierda	Jan 2013	#80
I agree!	narnian60	Jan 2013	#89
+1	tallahasseedem	Jan 2013	#107
Agreed!	Lilyeye	Jan 2013	#230
FFS	malaise	Jan 2013	#81
Ditto n/t	Bjornsdotter	Jan 2013	#91
Yep!	a la izquierda	Jan 2013	#92
Geez	malaise	Jan 2013	#96
You showed them.	ForgoTheConsequence	Jan 2013	#86
I hit the mute too -	LiberalElite	Jan 2013	#88
Too bad you missed out, it's a beautiful song and it was done beautifully. A shame that you're so	Raine	Jan 2013	#93
Let's see	WolverineDG	Jan 2013	#95
They're really playing up the Emancipation Proclamation/MLK/African American President synergy	deutsey	Jan 2013	#97
As you should have!	Puglover	Jan 2013	#98
Yeah boy people sure are touchy	LiberalElite	Jan 2013	#113
And thanks for playing MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY!	Puglover	Jan 2013	#146
One in every crowd.	AngryOldDem	Jan 2013	#103
I 'll alert the media	arely staircase	Jan 2013	#116
The President is a Christian.	NCTraveler	Jan 2013	#117
And yet your Constitution is not a Christian document. Quite the reverse as I understand it.	mr blur	Jan 2013	#222
Not sure what that has to do with anything stated.	NCTraveler	Jan 2013	#224
Where do you live?	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#300
Lighten up, Francis.	name not needed	Jan 2013	#119
As an atheist	geomon666	Jan 2013	#120
Agreed!	llmart	Jan 2013	#122
On this board, you could have a fulltime job...	Jeff In Milwaukee	Jan 2013	#191
They can't pay me enough for that.	geomon666	Jan 2013	#263
I always pegged that as Union Civil War Era Nostalgia	Taverner	Jan 2013	#121
Sure... a Christian Abolitionist. How awful.	Hekate	Jan 2013	#123
Now the god damn Benidiction	Coyotl	Jan 2013	#126
Too bad. It was the best musical performance	proud2BlibKansan	Jan 2013	#128
it is all metaphor and even many "religious" people see it that way	Hamlette	Jan 2013	#132
...	SidDithers	Jan 2013	#135
Missed a beautiful rendition, then	union_maid	Jan 2013	#136
You know, every once in a while I wonder if I should declare myself an athiest.	bklyncowgirl	Jan 2013	#138
+1	LP2K12	Jan 2013	#144
Yep.	name not needed	Jan 2013	#147
You got that right.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Jan 2013	#154
So could you please list what insults are sufficient to mention?	jeff47	Jan 2013	#206
People expressing their 1st amendment right to religious expression is not an occasion for outrage	bklyncowgirl	Jan 2013	#229
Yes, it's only people talking, it's not like 70% of the public wouldn't vote for an atheist	jeff47	Jan 2013	#237
You did the right thing.	Nye Bevan	Jan 2013	#139
Well, that's your loss.	TheCowsCameHome	Jan 2013	#141
shrug	MadrasT	Jan 2013	#145
We gonna get rid of all religious music?	union_maid	Jan 2013	#151
Then I presume	RudynJack	Jan 2013	#153
Just for you...	SidDithers	Jan 2013	#156
As an atheist	Laochtine	Jan 2013	#160
OMG, so many posts from people who must have just arrived in the U.S.! Welcome, immigrants!	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#161
Oh, please.	cordelia	Jan 2013	#166
Fox News must agree with you	obietiger	Jan 2013	#168
This thread is rather ironic coming on MLK Day -	lynne	Jan 2013	#171
Imagine the full metal jacket hissy fit that would have been pitched	Fumesucker	Jan 2013	#172
Richard Blanco made all of those connections. Sky figured prominently in what he said. nt	patrice	Jan 2013	#273
So an abolition song rooted in religion makes you feel excluded, but you're fine with Rudolph? n/t	hughee99	Jan 2013	#173
lol!	HappyMe	Jan 2013	#177
Great song for today.	CalFresh	Jan 2013	#174
Prefer "Dixie" Do You?	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#175
What a weird and ridiculous retort.	Silent3	Jan 2013	#180
It's not religious, so it must be more inclusionary	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#181
So the idea of dropping both religious and racist at the same time...	Silent3	Jan 2013	#186
Yeah, we can airbrush all of history	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#193
Maybe if it was a rare religious touch...	Silent3	Jan 2013	#219
"those who hold a privileged position"	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#239
There's more than one kind of privilege...	Silent3	Jan 2013	#248
On MLK day....	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Jan 2013	#196
Yeah, it's too soon. We need to wait to do anything.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#208
No, I get it....	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Jan 2013	#223
No, it's just never a good time to start supporting minorities.	jeff47	Jan 2013	#238
You don't know much about Julia Ward Howe, do you?	jberryhill	Jan 2013	#240
You don't realize this isn't about one song, do you? (nt)	jeff47	Jan 2013	#243
It's most convenient to pretend it's only about the one song. n/t	Silent3	Jan 2013	#313
Made me laugh!!	DevonRex	Jan 2013	#211
I was thinking about "Old Folks at Home."	MineralMan	Jan 2013	#215
That appears pretty narrow minded to me. nt	patrice	Jan 2013	#178
Oh brother	zappaman	Jan 2013	#179
It's just a song.	RoverSuswade	Jan 2013	#183
When a friend dies, do you boycott the funeral if it is religious?	Stinky The Clown	Jan 2013	#184
Be honest	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Jan 2013	#185
Why were you watching at all?	Jeff In Milwaukee	Jan 2013	#187
So thrilled you had to inform everyone.	abbeyco	Jan 2013	#188
I'm just surprised you turned on the tv	mokawanis	Jan 2013	#198
At least they're not singing "Dixie."	thucythucy	Jan 2013	#199
Got a telephone?	11 Bravo	Jan 2013	#200
I imagine that sooner or later, we'll evolve to the point in which any song sung, poem read...	LanternWaste	Jan 2013	#207
great cultural/anthropological retort to the OP and general observation	arely staircase	Jan 2013	#221
Alrighty then	workinclasszero	Jan 2013	#213
So you never go to the opera or art museums, I take it? You	DevonRex	Jan 2013	#220
Good. You didn't deserve to hear that heart-wrenchingly beautiful rendition.	Phx_Dem	Jan 2013	#225
It was beautiful. And I appreciated the wartime version of the lyrics (nt)	Recursion	Jan 2013	#226
Thank goodness they didn't read the Emancipation Proclamation out loud	onenote	Jan 2013	#227
I think it is one thing to object to the prayers	dsc	Jan 2013	#228
You have to think of it in context with the Civil War	CanonRay	Jan 2013	#231
You have more than one channel?	Robb	Jan 2013	#232
That's the history of our country. That's our tradition. I like it.	JDPriestly	Jan 2013	#233
And you couldn't wait to share your pettiness on DU. Lovely.	Phx_Dem	Jan 2013	#234
To paraphrase an old saying . . .	Brigid	Jan 2013	#236
"Turned it off and tuned out."	No Vested Interest	Jan 2013	#245
Real tolerant.	Swamp Lover	Jan 2013	#251
I clicked down to the bottom, because	juajen	Jan 2013	#256
As one of "no Faith," in either the imaginary or even you fine people... That was one of	ScreamingMeemie	Jan 2013	#259
Thank you.....	llmart	Jan 2013	#268
This a new level of stupid trival, whining	SpartanDem	Jan 2013	#260
Everyone in this thread should read this article & decide what's going on with certain kinds of OPs.	patrice	Jan 2013	#266
Oh, I think I know "what's going on." So much....CONCERN, you see.	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#301
Like we're a bunch of babies whose brains are so easily re-programmed, we need NANNIES to tell us	patrice	Jan 2013	#305
They skipped the part about glory to old Georgia and to hell with GATech	aikoaiko	Jan 2013	#271
good. who needs miserable people on this glorious day.	Whisp	Jan 2013	#274
I'm an Atheist and i enjoyed it, i enjoy listening to Catholic, buddhist, Hindu etc	JI7	Jan 2013	#275
Union won the war. Get over it.	tabasco	Jan 2013	#277
Did you get Offended by that Poet Saying "Namaste" ?	JI7	Jan 2013	#279
I always found gospel inspiring. And I am Buddhist if anything.	bluerum	Jan 2013	#281
Churck Schumer is Jewish, i wonder if he was offended and felt left out	JI7	Jan 2013	#286
Sure, you wonder. Did he SEEM like he was offended?? Good grief.	WinkyDink	Jan 2013	#296
How silly.	demosincebirth	Jan 2013	#290
Excellent! That's why there are so many channels	Doctor_J	Jan 2013	#291
How Foolish	louis c	Jan 2013	#303
Interesting how the OP	GP6971	Jan 2013	#307
I do believe the Battle Hymn was written during the Civil War...	WCGreen	Jan 2013	#308
Martin Luther King Jr.'s Final Words in his Final Speech	alcibiades_mystery	Jan 2013	#312
Probably a coincidence	Doctor_J	Jan 2013	#317
Where's General William Tecumseh Sherman when you need him?	Ikonoklast	Jan 2013	#315
You must hate that free exercise clause...	Festivito	Jan 2013	#318
I'm an Atheist and love the Battle Hymn of The Republic.	Odin2005	Jan 2013	#320
Wevs. nt	Chorophyll	Jan 2013	#322
Well, please don't watch the University of Georgia play sports on TV	Blue_Tires	Jan 2013	#324

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

samsingh (16,869 posts)

1. good

Reply to this post

Response to samsingh (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:24 PM

TheDebbieDee (11,119 posts)

255. I'm not real religious anymore either, BUT those choir members sang their a$$e$ off!

The soloist was duh BOMB and that was the most beautiful version of that song I've ever heard!

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

Drunken Irishman (34,857 posts)

2. Cool story.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

WilliamPitt (58,179 posts)

3. Thanks for sharing.

<------------------------------------

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 PM

lonestarnot (77,097 posts)

4. Then you missed something spectacular.

Whateva.

Reply to this post

Response to lonestarnot (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

11. As a non-Christian, I only missed feeling marginalized.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:30 PM

MineralMan (144,008 posts)

130. I've been an atheist for over 40 years.

However, I recognize that many people have religious beliefs. I'm not insulted by those beliefs. I just don't share them. I can't imagine why I'd feel marginalized by a song. That's just stupid.

You missed a great ceremony, capped by a memorable speech by our President. Too bad for you.

Reply to this post

Response to MineralMan (Reply #130)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:34 PM

dmr (27,849 posts)

235. +1

Reply to this post

Response to MineralMan (Reply #130)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:01 PM

trof (53,710 posts)

270. I'm also an atheist, but I teared up.

I can't explain it.
That song, when done like that, just gets me.
I don't agree of subscribe to anything in the lyrics, but it still grabs me.
And I'm a 'Reb'.

So does Amazing Grace, especially when done by bagpipes.

Reply to this post

Response to trof (Reply #270)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:09 AM

ashling (25,771 posts)

316. Amazing Grace is fine, but

I never cared for the bagpipes thing.

Reply to this post

Response to ashling (Reply #316)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 06:41 PM

trof (53,710 posts)

325. Maybe it's an an aquired taste?

Reply to this post

Response to MineralMan (Reply #130)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:29 PM

Whisp (24,096 posts)

276. well said, Mr. MM. Perfect.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:46 PM

rbixby (1,140 posts)

149. Its too bad that other people's beliefs offend you so much

I'm sorry.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:33 PM

Warpy (103,111 posts)

214. Christians are blind and deaf to this

Our government was designed to be secular for a reason, so no one would feel slighted or marginalized whatever spiritual path they were on.

Christians are so certain of everything (being in a majority tends to do this) that they don't realize how arrogant this is and how many people are starting to realize they won't get any sort of a fair deal from this government because they are simply not approved of by Christians.

I realize this is an attempt to wrest god away from the iron grip of the Republicans while honoring the believers who fought against slavery. Unfortunately, it's having the opposite effect on non Christian Americans, a minority that grows every day.

Since Obama, himself, is a believer, I'd expect him to thank providence during his inauguration speech. However, holding this much of a Christian tent meeting is distasteful, diminishing both church and state.

Reply to this post

Response to Warpy (Reply #214)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:49 PM

politicat (9,808 posts)

241. +1000

Reply to this post

Response to Warpy (Reply #214)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:57 PM

Egalitarian Thug (12,448 posts)

269. No, the original reply that spawned this sub was intentionally offensive.

The deluded feel it necessary to belittle those that don't share their fantasy. They have no facts or logic to argue in favor of traditional delusions and since they can't kill us any longer, this is what they got.

It does, however, work to our favor over the long term since our minority is growing most rapidly in younger demographics and these back-handed insults are remembered.

Reply to this post

Response to lonestarnot (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

12. Sure, spectacular pandering.

Reply to this post

Response to lonestarnot (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

42. The assumption that everyone believes in God is not "spectacular."

Reply to this post

Response to lonestarnot (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:17 PM

Swamp Lover (431 posts)

252. I agree.

beautiful song.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

5. The battle hymn is not a religious piece of music

Even with all words, but you knew that.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:46 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

15. The hell it isn't

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:46 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

16. "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!"

No, nothing religious there.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 PM

Brickbat (19,339 posts)

43. Have you read the words lately?

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

45. Bullshit.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:02 PM

WolverineDG (22,298 posts)

74. It's an abolition tune

but don't confuse them with the facts......

Reply to this post

Response to WolverineDG (Reply #74)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:05 PM

Brickbat (19,339 posts)

82. Some reports say the tune came from camp meetings, and then was sung as "John Brown's Body."

There were many variants, some risque. A call went out to clean the tune up, and Julia Ward Howe came up with the Battle Hymn of the Republic. It's full of apocalyptic imagery meant to tie the outcome of the Civil War with divine justice. Which, yeah, is pretty damn religious.

Reply to this post

Response to Brickbat (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:15 PM

WolverineDG (22,298 posts)

105. Since the majority of abolitionists were Christians

would you expect anything less?

Many hymns carry significance in the African American community precisely because of their use in the abolition movement: Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, The Gospel Train, Amazing Grace, Battle Hymn of the Republic, those are just the ones I'm aware of....

Reply to this post

Response to WolverineDG (Reply #105)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:29 PM

Brickbat (19,339 posts)

129. Which doesn't change the fact that they're religious.

Reply to this post

Response to Brickbat (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:21 PM

dipsydoodle (42,239 posts)

254. Still that in the UK

John Brown.

Reply to this post

Response to WolverineDG (Reply #74)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:16 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

106. Exactly.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 PM

Occulus (20,599 posts)

101. "In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea"

Nope, nothing overtly religious about it.

You are obviously, spectacularly wrong in your opinion.

Demonstrably so. With bells on.

Reply to this post

Response to Occulus (Reply #101)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:17 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

109. An abolitionist tune

That reference is to slaves, but you did not know that I s'pose.

Proper today.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #109)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:40 PM

Occulus (20,599 posts)

140. I knew that very well. Having performed it myself numerous times, I probably am more aware of that

than you are.

I didn't deny the slavery reference. That does not exclude, or in any way modify, the overtly religious nature of the piece.

Reply to this post

Response to Occulus (Reply #140)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:45 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

148. Not gona re type this

Response to cynatnite (Reply #133)Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:43 AM
nadinbrzezinski (115,179 posts)
143. Patriotic

And it took those overtones during the civil war, not the present. The transformation for it into a deeply patriotic song took place during that very bloody civil war. It's origins are with the abolitionist movement as you correctly note.

It's also a hymn in the African American community. I don't know about you, but this is an African American President being inaugurated. This choice by Schumer, he is the one who chose it, is a nod to the community from a Jew.

So if one gets all those historic nuances, I can forgive them of using it. And Lord knows I know exactly where I lost my faith in a higher power. I also know we are not gong to have a ceremony like oh...Mexico's. our separation of Church and State is not that strict. Nor ave we fought several bloody civil wars over the issue either.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:31 PM

cynatnite (31,011 posts)

133. Well, it does have a smack of "end times" fervor...

Abolitionists, including John Brown, used religion to further their cause. The song was to be a sort of judgment against the wicked. It was inspired by "John Brown's Body".

If you look at it from a purely historical POV, you could argue that it's not religious.

Given how it's used today, it is a very religious and patriotic piece of music.

Reply to this post

Response to cynatnite (Reply #133)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:43 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

143. Patriotic

And it took those overtones during the civil war, not the present. The transformation for it into a deeply patriotic song took place during that very bloody civil war. It's origins are with the abolitionist movement as you correctly note.

It's also a hymn in the African American community. I don't know about you, but this is an African American President being inaugurated. This choice by Schumer, he is the one who chose it, is a nod to the community from a Jew.

So if one gets all those historic nuances, I can forgive them of using it. And Lord knows I know exactly where I lost my faith in a higher power. I also know we are not gong to have a ceremony like oh...Mexico's. our separation of Church and State is not that strict. Nor ave we fought several bloody civil wars over the issue either.

Reply to this post

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #143)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:47 PM

cynatnite (31,011 posts)

150. I'm not crazy about the song, but based on your points...

I can see why it was chosen. Thank you.

Reply to this post

Response to cynatnite (Reply #150)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:59 PM

nadinbrzezinski (154,021 posts)

158. You welcome.

I wish we could have a truly secular ceremony, but that ain't gonna happen.

I have watched both the simple secular ceremonies in Mexico, president and successor walk into the Well of the Senate, the oath is taken, and a flag like thing is placed on the new occupant, the symbol of office is placed on the new President. Then a speech may or may not be delivered from the office...that's it. No gala ball, no inauguration parade...it's almost like any other day, and no references to God anywhere.

Then the American ceremonies. In an economic crisis the expense is a tad galling. And we need to find a new balance. But god ain't leaving.

The last point as far as this President is concerned, he likes to model himself on Lincoln.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 PM

geek tragedy (68,868 posts)

6. Want some cheese with that whine? Nt

Reply to this post

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:47 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

18. I want LESS Chees-us

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:59 PM

Liberal_in_LA (44,397 posts)

246. lol. The battle hymn was short, then they got back to business. but oath was on big bible

Reply to this post

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:02 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

77. Yeah, fuck anyone who doesn't believe, right?

Reply to this post

Response to cleanhippie (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:00 PM

geek tragedy (68,868 posts)

159. No, just those who wallow in victim hood

because someone utters the G word.

And I'm an agnostic/atheist btw.

Reply to this post

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #159)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:31 PM

Occulus (20,599 posts)

212. Think harder

Imagine a world where you couldn't get married and have no employment protections solely and only because of people who are part of the religion under discussion.

Imagine a world where you can't even have your marriage acknowledged as valid in every state, but only a few, solely and only because of people who are part of the religion under discussion, and even then, you do not receive the same benefits on both the Federal and state level, exclusively because of people part of the religion under discussion.

Imagine a world where the deity of the religion under discussion, and that religion's beliefs, are used as a sword against you and everyone like you every day. Imagine a world wherein you are a target of such people for maiming, mauling, and murder for that specific reason.

Now imagine people you thought were on your side putting that religion on a pedestal and calling its dross a virtue.

I am a victim of this religion and its adherents. Daily. Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred sixty-five days a year, and have been so for a long, long, long time.

I can indisputably prove that beyond any possible doubt, reasonable or unreasonable, as a point of law. I can prove it, beyond any question to any person, in multiple ways. It has directly and personally affected me for my entire adult life. And yes, it is damaging. Deeply.

I accept your apology in advance.

Reply to this post

Response to Occulus (Reply #212)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:53 PM

geek tragedy (68,868 posts)

244. The Battle Hymn is an anti-slavery song.

This is all a bunch of worthless whining. Why not bitch about MLK Jr's religious speeches while you're at it.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Reply to this post

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #159)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:18 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

321. Apparently we Atheists are not allowed to enjoy religious music.

The Battle Hymn is an Abolitionist song, for fuck's sake.

Reply to this post

Response to cleanhippie (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:27 PM

HiPointDem (20,729 posts)

258. why don't you save your ire for something that actually matters, like state funding to religious

schools & religious 'non-profits'?

bhotr is religious but religion isn't its main message, today or historically.

Reply to this post

Response to cleanhippie (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:31 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

278. i don't believe in God and i find the OP stupid, reminds me of wingnuts crying about spanish

or some other language being spoken.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 PM

llmart (13,220 posts)

7. How petty.....

I feel sorry for you.

Reply to this post

Response to llmart (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

HERVEPA (6,107 posts)

65. I feel sorry for you that you can't understand that religion, and a specific religion, Christianity,

doesn't belong in this setting.

Reply to this post

Response to HERVEPA (Reply #65)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 PM

llmart (13,220 posts)

100. Then you'll have to feel sorry for our President too....

since he has invoked the theme of God in the ceremony himself.

I'm an avowed atheist, but I am in the minority and realize that I live in a democracy.

Reply to this post

Response to llmart (Reply #100)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:16 PM

HERVEPA (6,107 posts)

108. The inauguration is for everyone, not just the majority

Reply to this post

Response to HERVEPA (Reply #108)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:18 PM

llmart (13,220 posts)

110. What a silly argument....

I still feel sorry for you. You just can't enjoy what a wonderful, historic moment this is without starting a silly argument about which music is appropriate.

Reply to this post

Response to llmart (Reply #110)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:21 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

115. I feel sorry for you...

You seem to have lost the ability to see beyond your religious privilege.

Reply to this post

Response to llmart (Reply #100)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:20 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

112. I DO feel sorry for him.

I think he is an unwilling victim of the religious majority in this country that would scream bloody murder if he failed to pander to them. Were he to simply omit those references, he would be lambasted until his last day in office. You know it, I know it, we all know it. We should ALL feel sorry for him.

Reply to this post

Response to llmart (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:13 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

249. Did you feel sorry for gay people when they complained about Rick Warren last time? (nt)

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 PM

FSogol (42,766 posts)

8. I stopped reading your post when I saw your Rudolph avatar

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 PM

CalFresh (99 posts)

9. On radio it

sounds like a tea party meeting.

Reply to this post

Response to CalFresh (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:30 PM

bama_blue_dot (224 posts)

182. Are you serious?

I think you are in the wrong place...

Reply to this post

Response to CalFresh (Reply #9)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:20 PM

Odin2005 (53,521 posts)

323. The Teabaggers wouldn't be singing an ABOLITIONIST song.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:45 PM

Renew Deal (79,993 posts)

10. You showed them

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:46 PM

Politicub (12,068 posts)

13. Feel better?

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:46 PM

RedstDem (1,239 posts)

14. No shortage of bankers lackeys up there either

what a citizen with a conscience to do?

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:46 PM

ChazII (5,632 posts)

17. You missed a beautiful solo. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to ChazII (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

23. Good

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:47 PM

Mrs. Overall (6,839 posts)

19. But you were fine with the opening benediction?

Thanks for sharing your poutrage.

Reply to this post

Response to Mrs. Overall (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:50 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

31. No, I wasn't fine with it. But Battle Hymn of the Republic pushed me over the edge.

ROFL, you trotted out "poutrage."

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:51 PM

Mrs. Overall (6,839 posts)

35. Obama is taking his oath right now--thank goodness you have tuned out!!

Reply to this post

Response to Mrs. Overall (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

44. I already saw his oath yesterday

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

Mrs. Overall (6,839 posts)

50. But he took his oath on a Bible yesterday--fuming about that?

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:47 PM

MineralMan (144,008 posts)

20. OK. Do what you want.

I'm listening on the radio. I wouldn't miss the second inauguration of this President. Do whatever you want.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:47 PM

NOLALady (4,003 posts)

21. It was beautiful.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 PM

sad-cafe (1,277 posts)

22. you missed out then

it was beautiful.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 PM

The Velveteen Ocelot (100,713 posts)

24. Too bad. It was a beautiful performance; the soloist had a gorgeous voice.

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:49 PM

Sekhmets Daughter (7,515 posts)

27. I thought so too.

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:49 PM

Aristus (58,841 posts)

30. Very pretty, too.

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:52 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

38. I'm sure it would have been fine -- IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH

Sung in front of Christian believers.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 PM

The Velveteen Ocelot (100,713 posts)

61. I'm not a believer, either.

But I'm a member of a choir that performs a lot of religious music - some of the greatest music of the last thousand years was written for the Christian church. I'm not going to miss out on that magnificent music just because I don't necessarily accept the faith it represents.

"The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a piece of music that has great historic significance, probably much greater than its religious overtones. It is especially important to the black community, whose Christian faith was instrumental in furthering the civil rights movement. I can enjoy listening to an excellent performance of this music without feeling like my own religious beliefs (or lack of them) are somehow being disrespected.

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:36 PM

MineralMan (144,008 posts)

137. Yup. I've been an atheist since 1965. But I've performed all manner

of religious music as a musician, from playing in orchestras to singing the Bass solos in Handel's Messiah several times. "For he is like a refiner's fire" is my favorite piece of vocal music to perform, although I no longer sing in public. I have zero problem with people's religious beliefs, and often attend concerts in churches when important musical works are being performed. I needn't believe to sing or play music.

Shallowness is a flaw. Much of our best art has a religious foundation. I don't have to believe to appreciate it.

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:23 PM

duffyduff (3,251 posts)

302. Judy Garland gave a rendition of the song in honor of JFK

back during her 1963 variety show. It was one of the greatest performances of all time.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:45 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

292. why ? non christians and atheists like myself enjoy listening to it also

should we be banned from hearing it ?

Reply to this post

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:06 PM

No Vested Interest (4,915 posts)

247. NPR thought is was so beautiful

they closed oout their live broadcast with a reprise of The Battle Hymn performance.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 PM

Sekhmets Daughter (7,515 posts)

25. Too bad, you missed an

incredible rendition and you're ignoring the significance of this hymn (and that uses the term lightly) to so very many African Americans.

I'm not a believer myself, but I have no problem with the fact their faith is what kept so many African Americans moving forward against incredible odds.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:48 PM

HappyMe (20,277 posts)

26. Good grief.

So you couldn't just listen to appreciate the choir.

Reply to this post

Response to HappyMe (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 PM

narnian60 (3,507 posts)

62. +1000

Reply to this post

Response to HappyMe (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:05 PM

Siwsan (22,350 posts)

83. 100% agree with you

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:49 PM

In_The_Wind (72,287 posts)

28. !

[img]

[/img]

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:49 PM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

29. Well ...

as others have noted, You missed quite a performance.

Can you not listen to a piece of art and not make it political?

Reply to this post

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:50 PM

Buzz Clik (38,437 posts)

33. +1. It's a performance, almost art.

Raging on about the use of music with the mention of God is every bit as misguided as raging about a permformance that does not mention God.

Reply to this post

Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

treestar (80,025 posts)

48. Exactly, tons of classical music

and opera would be thrown out if we looked at it the way the OP does. Has to ignore a lot of literature and art, too. Religion is part of history.

Reply to this post

Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #33)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

49. And I'll bet you would have stood up and cheered had Bush included this in his inaugurations

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #49)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:56 PM

Buzz Clik (38,437 posts)

55. I did not watch the Bush unauguration.

That means you are dead wrong in your assumptions.

Shocking.

Reply to this post

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:51 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

34. Not when I am NOT Christian and this is supposed to be

a secular ceremony representing all Americans.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

46. Well ...

It's your world to hear/see what one wishes ... no matter how egocentric.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:15 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

104. Those with religious privilege are loathe to recognize that fact...

a secular ceremony representing all Americans

Yeah, sure. Let me know when that happens.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:02 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

163. Who says?

Reply to this post

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:13 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

99. The fact that it was chosen to be part of this was political...

There is more going on than just a song, and if you can't see it, you missed quite a performance.

Reply to this post

Response to cleanhippie (Reply #99)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:15 PM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

102. Okay n/t

Reply to this post

Response to cleanhippie (Reply #99)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:42 PM

ProudToBeBlueInRhody (16,399 posts)

192. The only "performance" is going on in this thread

A lot of sour grapes today.

Reply to this post

Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #192)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:55 PM

thucythucy (6,729 posts)

195. And might those be "the Grapes of Wrath"?

Just asking.

I think it's a beautiful song. Up there with "Ode to Joy" and "Mr. Tambourine Man."

Amazing performance as well.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:50 PM

Buzz Clik (38,437 posts)

32. That's what the remote is for.

Better than sitting and fuming.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:51 PM

OKNancy (41,832 posts)

36. many associate it with Lincoln

and the Emancipation Proclamation.
My Dad did ... we sang it at his funeral.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:51 PM

whatchamacallit (15,558 posts)

37. Inaugurations, coronations...

I'm indifferent to archaic rituals of entrenched power.

Reply to this post

Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:02 PM

Historic NY (35,532 posts)

76. Dictators don't have inaugurations....

its a uniquely American transfer of the reins of government.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:52 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

39. I feel the exact same way. Sick of this religious stuff - this shouldn't feel like a

church service.

Don't care how beautiful the voices are. Religion does not belong in government no matter who is president!

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:55 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

52. There is no functional utility to an inauguration ceremony

It is purely a civil ritual. If you do not appreciate the role of ritual in human society, then you are correct, there is nothing for you in this one.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

64. Apparently you don't understand that it excludes a lot of people.

And that is just plain wrong.

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:08 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

90. No, it doesn't exclude anyone

Hearing The Battle Hymn of the Republic does not exclude anyone but those who are themselves intolerant. Based on a tune that was popularized as "John Brown's Body" after a man who died in the course of his plan to free slaves, it is a product of an American folk music tradition.

It became an anthem symbolizing the struggle which resulted in a more inclusive society, and it was the anthem of those who triumphed in that struggle.

As a cultural product of its time, it does indeed include references to a specific aspect of culture.

And it is unfortunate that you have missed the president's call to expand the inclusiveness of our society today.

You are as intolerant as those who ban Mark Twain novels from high schools because of cultural expressions they find offensive.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #90)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:10 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

94. You can't rationalize it with all your words and insults. It excludes people.

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:25 PM

name not needed (11,658 posts)

124. Damn those pesky facts, I didn't get my pony!

Reply to this post

Response to name not needed (Reply #124)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:32 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

134. Christians can only seem to insult, why is that?

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #134)

Post removed

Response to Post removed (Reply #142)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:49 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

152. I didn't call you a Christian. And I am not intimidated by your rage and threats.

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:44 PM

ProudToBeBlueInRhody (16,399 posts)

194. You sound like Sarah Palin right now

Seriously, this is the shit she retorts with when someone presents the facts and history behind anything involving the Obama Administration.

Reply to this post

Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #194)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:18 AM

JoeyT (6,785 posts)

314. Yeah, sure.

Someone is being berated for objecting to the jesusification of absolutely everything, which makes THEM sound like Sarah Palin?

My god the amount of irony in that should've broken the internet.

Half of the screeching Sarah Palin does is about how oppressed Christians are and how terrible it is that Jesus is being taken out of everything. Sound familiar?

Edited to add: I didn't even object to the religious songs or references. I object to people climbing up on their crosses yet AGAIN when they're reminded that being the majority religion doesn't make them the only religion.

Reply to this post

Response to JoeyT (Reply #314)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:14 PM

ProudToBeBlueInRhody (16,399 posts)

319. Sorry, sir....

....but you're the one who missed the "irony" of that. Not that it's really irony, but anyway....

Someone pointed out facts and history of the song and it's usage, and the poster's reply was to claim they were personally insulted when they weren't. Because you know, facts and history are evidence, proof, and the way you make your case, but to people without a leg to stand on, it's an "attack". That's a classic Sarah Palin tactic.

HTH.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #90)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:57 PM

Igel (32,777 posts)

157. It excludes many.

But some of those it excludes you don't want to see as excluded.

Many of those it excludes you don't think should be included, anyway.

Consider how "we the people" is often used. It's absolutely exclusionary. The people, versus those who would oppres the people. However, the oppressors are also humans, and therefore people; they're also Americans, and therefore part of the people that matter.

We are told that nobody's equal until we have equal love, and we claim the mantle of righteousness. Then we hear words of triumphant hate and condescension for our political and class enemies. The message is incoherent without the right set of definitions, yet deemed coherent by the faithful and perceived as undisputed only because iconoclasts have a short half-life in any party, especially among the zealous.

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:28 PM

cleanhippie (19,705 posts)

127. Oh, he knows, he just doesn't care.

HIS religious privilege is being preserved, thats all that matters.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:34 PM

arely staircase (12,482 posts)

261. the role of ritual in human society

i know, right?

for lovers of the humanities aof all kinds it was spectacular

Reply to this post

Response to arely staircase (Reply #261)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:43 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

264. Having sung in various choirs...

Golly, I must have sung all kinds of religious music that has utterly nothing to do with anything I believe. I'm boycotting myself from now on.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

40. It's a historically significant song

How unfortunate we are to have the history we do.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:53 PM

treestar (80,025 posts)

41. I think it's OK

The song has historical value and patriotic value. Earlier Americans were very religious and we don't have to pretend that never was. And the choir really rocked it! Beautiful as a piece of music.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

panader0 (24,199 posts)

47. "So help me God"? Swearing in on a Bible?

The inauguration has always had these elements. Get over it.

Reply to this post

Response to panader0 (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:56 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

54. Where did I mention those? Nowhere. YOU did.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #54)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:00 PM

panader0 (24,199 posts)

71. I mention them because they are a part of the inauguration

As they have always been. Does swearing in on the Bible offend you too? Is this the first inauguration to disturb you?
Or have you always turned them off?

Reply to this post

Response to panader0 (Reply #71)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:20 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

114. Nice try.

Reply to this post

Response to panader0 (Reply #71)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:03 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

164. Actually, they aren't.

Or more to the point, they are not formally part of the inauguration. Washington added them on his personal preference, and everyone after him have been too terrified of the religious to remove them.

Reply to this post

Response to panader0 (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:01 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

162. Yes, those two should also be removed

So your argument is because religion is shoved into the ceremony in a variety of ways we should just shut up and be happy with it?

Ya know, them dark folks had their very own drinking fountains. They really shouldn't have complained about not being able to use all of them. It was no big deal.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

51. I can appreciate your sentiments but find it rude to try to bring others down. nm

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:56 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

57. Too fucking bad

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

63. Have you ever heard of Dale Carnegie? nm

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:04 PM

WilliamPitt (58,179 posts)

79. My hero.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:22 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

118. Martin Luther King Jr. must have really irritated you

...with his constant Biblical allusions.

"I may not get there with you, but I have seen the promised land", for example, was a reference to Moses not entering Canaan, and is, to you I suppose, offensive to Palestinians.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:15 PM

chillfactor (6,882 posts)

205. I cannot find the words

to say what a disgusting individual I think you are......you are entitled to your own beliefs but you do not have the right to insult others and swear at them just because your brain is in stall mode....you remind me of a two-year old having a temper tantrum....

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:59 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

69. Wow. So we have to keep quiet so we don't make others feel bad?

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:59 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

197. I think the OP was rude and counter productive to the argument

that the ceremony should be secular. Didnt look to me like the OP wanted a decent discussion on the subject only to be disruptive.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #197)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:07 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

202. And I think much of the response was so ugly and insulting that no discussion would ever

be possible no matter what tone was taken.

Reply to this post

Response to forestpath (Reply #202)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:10 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

203. Exactly. That's why I thought it wasnt an appropriate time to bring

up the discussion if a decent discussion was the intent.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #203)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:23 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

210. Yes, that chap marching in the street around Selma was just so disruptive

He should have just backed off instead of being so confrontational.

...Or so said a whole lot of people at the time. But hey, it's got a long tradition with the women's rights movement, LGBT rights, and pretty much everyone else who tries to fix anything in our country.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #210)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:16 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

216. Huh? Are you trying to equate the OP with the Civil Rights struggle? Good grief.

You have failed to indicate where you stand on the issue the OP brought up.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #216)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:19 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

253. You couldn't figure it out from the post?

I'm saying starting with a controversy over a bigoted preacher, then having the ceremony open with a prayer, contain many references to God, swearing on a Bible, include hymns, close with a prayer, to be followed with an official lunch that opens with a prayer, contains many references to God, and closes with a prayer might be a tad much for government ceremonies in a country that separates church from state.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #253)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:26 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

257. I absolutely agree with you. My only complaint was that I dont think it

is necessary to get in a fight about it today. I think it is counter productive.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #257)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:38 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

262. You get in a fight when it happens.

When, exactly, do you think the fight should happen? Weeks later when people will respond with "oh, get over it"?

Now, I'm not saying anything big needs to be done. Just a "huh....that's a lot of God in a secular ceremony. Maybe we shouldn't do that."

Big will have to happen after people realize there's a problem.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #210)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:16 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

299. Guess what? The Civil Rights leaders were MINISTERS. Get over yourself.

Reply to this post

Response to WinkyDink (Reply #299)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:56 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

309. Relevance?

I really don't care if they were ministers or plumbers.

People told them to shut up and stop making a fuss. Just like you are here.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:05 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

165. Yeah, the seats at the back of the bus still get to the same destination, right? (nt)

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #165)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:04 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

201. Are you trying to be cute and support the OP? If so, do you support the

argument that the ceremony should be secular? or the intent to be disruptive?

I think the ceremony should be secular but believe the OP is counter productive to that argument.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #201)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:10 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

204. The ceremony should be secular

"Oh, it's not that bad, you should just let this one go" is the same argument used against every single civil rights movement. Such as women, blacks, LGBT, and so on.

In every case, there was a large number of supporters who insisted that now was not the right time, or that a particular affront was not a big deal. And then next one wasn't a big deal. And the next one, and the next one.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #204)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:19 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

217. I think you broke the record for most logical fallacies in one post. Go bother someone

else please.

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #217)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:15 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

250. Just like those pesky gays getting upset about Rick Warren, right?

They really needed to stop pestering your beautiful mind, huh?

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #250)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:44 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

265. You lost me at hello. nm

Reply to this post

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #265)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:46 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

267. Because you think I'm talking about you?

This isn't about you. This is about our country. It's a slightly larger issue than you.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #250)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:38 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

280. Rick Warren is a Gay Basher who wants Gays to be killed, how the fuck is

that comparable to the OP ?

Reply to this post

Response to JI7 (Reply #280)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:56 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

285. It's comparable because people told gays to shut up or it wasn't the time.

Just like here.

Do I need to quote Republicans threatening physical harm to atheists to justify it to you, or do you think we might wanna actually follow the Constitution without keeping a score card?

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #285)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:59 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

288. context Matters , complaining about someone who wants to kill gays is not the same to me

as complaining about some reference to God. just because both involve complaining.

Bush lied about War, Clinton lied about sex. to you it's the same since they both involve lies.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #204)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:25 PM

davidthegnome (2,983 posts)

218. There is a significant difference

In those instances, it really WAS bad. If I went to a public event around Christmas time and babbled about Santa and his reindeer, people would roll their eyes, laugh - and probably think I was drunk. I can't see a lot of people getting really upset about it though. Of course, there are some who find imagination itself offensive, even some that I hold in high regard.

What's the alternative? Strictly enforce that there be no reference to God or religion during the inauguration? Perhaps one day there will be a President that makes it a secular event by choice, but it should be by choice and not by law. No one is being forced to pray, believe in, or approve of anything. No one is being forced to take part in the event.

I'm not religious, I'm not a believer, I'm also not really concerned about it. I don't see it as being deliberately offensive against (nor intended to intimidate) those who are not religious, or not believers. I honestly don't understand what is upsetting or oppressive about it.

Reply to this post

Response to davidthegnome (Reply #218)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:51 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

242. It's just words?

Because people like me don't get fired for not "just going along" with the prayer at a company function. I dared to not lower my head.

While that is nowhere as bad as a lynching, it's still far more damaging than words. And nothing like your straw man about Yule-turned-Christmas.

Perhaps one day there will be a President that makes it a secular event by choice, but it should be by choice and not by law.

Would it be acceptable for the President to refer to the lazy "n-words" in the audience? Why not? It's his choice.

While I'm not militant enough to demand a law, there should be some acknowledgement that such activities are exclusionary.

I honestly don't understand what is upsetting or oppressive about it.

An enormous number of atheists live in areas that are not particularly religious. As such, being an atheist is not a big deal. Kinda like being latino in Los Angeles isn't gonna result in a lot of discrimination. But move that same latino to Mississippi, and things will be different.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #242)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:40 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

282. your comparisons are pathetic, comparing saying the N word to someone mentioning God

Reply to this post

Response to JI7 (Reply #282)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:53 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

283. They're just words. According to you, that means they're just fine. (nt)

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #283)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:55 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

284. one is hate speech, just mentioning God in itself is not hateful, that was the problem with Rick

warren, not that he was christian or mentioned God but that he was an anti gay piece of shit who wanted to kill gays.

Reply to this post

Response to JI7 (Reply #284)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:58 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

287. Yet they're still just words.

One doesn't have to keep a score card of outrage in order to consider a complaint valid or not.

We could actually follow our founding principles instead of saying "shut up because I haven't heard of enough discrimination against you".

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #287)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:01 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

289. you are the one saying it's just words because you lost the argument

with your comparisons to gays blacks women being denied rights to someone making reference to God being equally offensive to Atheists.

Reply to this post

Response to JI7 (Reply #289)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:46 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

293. No, I'm referring to everyone else in this thread

who seems to feel that prayer is "just words".

to gays blacks women being denied rights to someone making reference to God being equally offensive to Atheists.

So, "shut up, woman!" would be offensive to you, but "shut up, atheist" is just fine?

My, how open-minded of you.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #293)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:50 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

294. depends on the context, if a woman used "shut up woman" against a friend

of hers in a joking way i wouldn't care.

but not sure what reference to God has to do with "shut up atheist" or "shut up woman". your arguments are getting lame it's like saying the inauguration is anti woman because the person being inauguration is a man.

Reply to this post

Response to JI7 (Reply #294)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:13 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

295. So you're unable to read anything else in this thread?

There's tons of posts in this thread, including several by you, which boil down to "shut up, Atheist".

it's like saying the inauguration is anti woman because the person being inauguration is a man.

No, the equivalent would be saying "thank God we're inaugurating a man instead of a woman".

(And yes, I went for a two-fer there)

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #295)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:15 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

298. equivalent to what ? how about the Poet saying Namaste ?

did you get offended at that ?

should christians,muslims, jews, feel offended at that ?

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #242)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:32 PM

davidthegnome (2,983 posts)

304. I'm an agnostic from northern Maine

When I was growing up, most of my neighbors were very strict baptists - the sort that didn't believe in dancing. I was raised Catholic myself - and there was constantly some kind of argument going on between baptists and Catholics. Being a boy, I didn't understand it terribly well. As I got older I realized that nearly every branch of Christianity is closed minded, judgmental, ignorant. I became a very angry atheist at the age of 14 and was frequently getting into shouting matches with my Father about it. I felt that I had been brainwashed, forced to go to a church and become a member of a cult of idiots and sheep. I was young, I was arrogant, I was foolish. The intention of my parents was the important thing - they brought me up Catholic because they felt it was a good way to instill moral values, to make me someone honest and good.

As I get older, I continue to have a strong prejudice against religion and the religious. Yet I realize that bias for what it is - my own ignorance, my own judgment, my own mind closing up. There really isn't anything wrong with someone displaying faith in public, provided they aren't using it as a means to intimidate or oppress another group, which in this case I don't think they were.

It's perfectly fine, even perhaps, righteous, to be intolerant of intolerance. Yet there is such a thing as an innocent display of faith, tradition. I may think of it as nonsense, but it's not my faith. So long as no one tries to ram it down my throat I'm fine with it. This is why I listen to Jehovah's Witnesses when they knock on my door. I completely disagree with most of what they say, but there's no harm in being polite and listening.

Perhaps I'm odd in that regard. I can remember very clearly a Catholic Priest telling me I would go to hell, or that the devil was having a "hayday with me" because I began to question my faith. I remember Baptists who lectured me on sin - and the millions of things that were sins, I remember them explaining to me that I'd go to hell if I didn't accept Christ as my lord and Savior. It sure made me angry - and others have even more right to be angry, but not necessarily at all religion and at anyone who practices it.

No, live and let live is generally my philosophy. I just don't see a point in getting angry about religious traditions in an inaugural ceremony, it's a tradition that's much older than our Country and it's generally innocent.

Reply to this post

Response to davidthegnome (Reply #304)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:02 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

310. And few passing mentions would get a similar response from me.

But we're talking about an official ceremony that:
started with a prayer
contained an oath with a prayer tacked on to the end
contained a speech with several references to God
contained hymns
closed with a prayer

which was then followed by an official lunch that:
started with a prayer
contained lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of references to God in speeches
ended with a prayer

That's an awful lot of religion in official ceremonies for a country that's supposed to separate church and state.

And my goal isn't to ban God from such ceremonies, but to ask: "do we need to add this much God to this?"

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #310)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:15 PM

davidthegnome (2,983 posts)

311. I agree in principle

I just can't understand getting really upset about it.

Do we need that much God? No, we don't need it all really, I just don't think that it's a big deal in this particular case.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #204)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:15 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

297. And you complained about past Inaugurals where, exactly?

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:55 PM

janx (24,128 posts)

53. Please look up the history of the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

You might then understand why it is especially important at this inauguration.

Reply to this post

Response to janx (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:56 PM

Mrs. Overall (6,839 posts)

56. +1

Reply to this post

Response to janx (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

59. I know its history -- I still find it utterly inappropriate and exclusionary

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:01 PM

treestar (80,025 posts)

72. It is a metaphor

so it is not even specifically religious. It ties the end of the Civil War to the judgment at the second coming as a metaphor, that's meant to say something (and to people in the 1860s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic

Reply to this post

Response to janx (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:02 PM

coalition_unwilling (14,180 posts)

75. The melody originally supplied a song celebrating the life and death

of America's first terrorist (aka "freedom fighter"

John Brown in the song "John Brown's Body" (sung by Union soldiers on the march through the South).

Unless you're a Brit, in which case, America's first terrorist was probably George Washington (or, arguably, Crispus Attucks

Reply to this post

Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #75)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:26 PM

janx (24,128 posts)

125. Yes indeed. And interestingly, there were TWO John Browns.

The "terrorist" abolitionist and another John Brown, whom the song was originally about.

Howe would have assumed that the John Brown of the song was the famous abolitionist. But the song belonged to a young Scotsman in the Massachusetts Volunteer Militia who shared Brown's name.

The Scotsman was well aware of John Brown the abolitionist. Having the same name made him a prime target for many good-natured jokes. As the soldiers marched, they would hammer out, in folk-song fashion, the tune that Julia Ward Howe would later hear. Lines like "His Soul's Marching On" were meant to tease the Scotsman. But as the catchy verse traveled to other units, it was known only as a song about the John Brown who was captured at Harpers Ferry. New verses were constantly added:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/brown/sfeature/song.html

Reply to this post

Response to janx (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:30 PM

coalition_unwilling (14,180 posts)

131. Your post is one reason my long-running love (hate) affair with DU continues

so passionately unabated. That is simply an amazing story!

Speaking of Scotsman and music, allow me one of my fav all-time jokes:

Q: What's the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scotsman?

A: Mick Jagger says "Hey, you, get off of my cloud" and a Scotsman says, "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe."

I'm Scotch-Irish so am allowed the ethnic-joke exemption for that one

Reply to this post

Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #131)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:10 PM

janx (24,128 posts)

169. . . .

Reply to this post

Response to janx (Reply #125)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:11 PM

1monster (11,012 posts)

170. Interesting story. Thanks for posting. (In elementary school we were taught that the

lyrics were

John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
John Brown's body has a cold upon its chest.
So they rubbed it with vaporizing oil!

Oye!

Reply to this post

Response to 1monster (Reply #170)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:18 PM

janx (24,128 posts)

209. Maybe your teachers didn't want to get graphic...

But history is magnificent, isn't it? The Battle Hymn of the Republic went from a taunting of that poor Massachusetts Scotsman and a song about a famous abolitionist to the Battle Hymn that we know today--one that symbolizes the Emancipation Proclamation and the preservation of the Union.

It's just beautiful.

Reply to this post

Response to janx (Reply #209)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:04 PM

coalition_unwilling (14,180 posts)

272. The line "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored" always

sends shivers down my spine for its imagery and poetics. Can almost see the Union Army of the Potomac marching to it.

Reply to this post

Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #75)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:42 PM

historylovr (1,557 posts)

306. Nathaniel Bacon is upset at being overlooked.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 PM

Comrade_McKenzie (2,526 posts)

58. From one secular being to another:

Today is not the day.

Reply to this post

Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

66. You can sit down and shut up if you want. I'm not that obedient.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:40 PM

1monster (11,012 posts)

190. If you are offended, it is your right to turn it off and I do not fault you for that at all. However

as a non-Christian, I find your outrage as off-putting as evangelicals who keep insisting that everyone believe as they do.

There are many reasons and ways that people come to renoucne religion of some or all kinds. Often those reasons/ways are very painful. It can take time to work through the issues that one has with belief and non-belief. And maybe you are still working through whatever issues you may have. I hope that eventually you will learn to make peace with the world you live in and learn to choose your battles.

PS, during the Bush years, The Battle Hymn of the Republic was used (in parody) quite often. One example:

Battle Hymn of the Republicans

Mine Eyes have seen the bungling of that stumbling moron Bush;
He has blathered all the drivel that the neo-cons can push;
He has lost sight of all reason 'cause his head is up his tush;
The Doofus marches on.

I have heard him butcher syntax like a kindergarten fool;
There is warranted suspicion that he never went to school;
Should we fault him for the policies -- or is he just their tool?
The lies keep piling on.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
His wreckage will live on.

I have seen him cut the taxes of the billionaires' lone heir;
As he spends another zillion on an aircraft carrier;
Let the smokestacks keep polluting -- do we really need clean air?
The surplus is now gone.

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw ! Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Your safety net is gone!

Now he's got a mighty hankerin' to bomb a prostrate state;
Though the whole world knows its crazy -- and the U.N. says to wait;
When he doesn't have the evidence, "We must prevaricate."
Diplomacy is done!

Oh, a trumped-up war is excellent; we have no moral bounds;
Should the reasons be disputed, we'll just make up other grounds;
Enraging several billions -- to his brainlessness redounds;
The Doofus marches on!

Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!
Glory! Glory! How he'll Screw Ya'!

THIS...DOO...FUS...MAR...CHES...ON

(with apologies to the lyricist -- I don't know who to credit)

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 PM

Carolina (6,960 posts)

60. whatever your thoughts about the

hymn or its place at such an event, you missed an exquisite performance by a diverse choir... one that mirrored the America that voted for the president and one composed of our fellow citizens endowed with beautiful voices!

Truly, it was your loss.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

tallahasseedem (6,716 posts)

67. Whatevs.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

still_one (84,158 posts)

68. It was written during the civil war, and like it or not it is part of the history of this country.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:00 PM

greatauntoftriplets (173,545 posts)

70. So I guess that today is meaningless to you?

After all, it commemorates the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:05 PM

Walk away (9,494 posts)

84. That's pretty nasty. You think Dr. King's christianity is what made him great?

Then he could have just stayed in his church and preached sermons and lived a long happy life.

Reply to this post

Response to Walk away (Reply #84)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:07 PM

forestpath (3,102 posts)

87. It's funny how nasty so-called Christians get when you dare to

disagree with them.

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:18 PM

MotherPetrie (3,145 posts)

111. It never ceases to amaze me how often DUer's put extra words in my mouth

Whenever I don't follow a specific party line

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:02 PM

NYC Liberal (19,665 posts)

73. I didn't. I am an atheist and I love that song.

Maybe I'm weird, but I do.

Reply to this post

Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:05 PM

a la izquierda (11,499 posts)

85. +1

Reply to this post

Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:53 PM

patrice (47,992 posts)

155. +1 apparently you are not an absolutist, which would, of course, mean that you are God.

Reply to this post

Response to patrice (Reply #155)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:07 PM

NYC Liberal (19,665 posts)

167. But...you're saying I don't believe in myself?!

Actually I think there's a lot of great religious music. Just because I don't believe in God doesn't mean I can't appreciate good music.

Reply to this post

Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #167)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:24 PM

patrice (47,992 posts)

176. Some poets say you are a song & you don't have to believe in music to hear it.

That's in Rilke's Sonnets to Orpheus, here: http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-sonnets-to-orpheus-book-2-xiii/

I especially like the closing lines of that poem.

Reply to this post

Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #73)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:38 PM

RebelOne (30,947 posts)

189. Ditto that. I am an atheist, but I always like that song. n/t

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:03 PM

Walk away (9,494 posts)

78. When Chuck Schumer introduced it I thought that was weird. It's a Jesus song...

it's not even a generic "Lord God" song so we Atheists aren't the only ones left out.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:04 PM

a la izquierda (11,499 posts)

80. Oy vey.

Comments like this are why I believe a lot of atheists are as insufferable as a lot of evangelical Christians. Different coin, same intolerance of the other.

And, oh yes, I said a lot. Not all, or many. Feel free to flame away.

Reply to this post

Response to a la izquierda (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:07 PM

narnian60 (3,507 posts)

89. I agree!

Reply to this post

Response to a la izquierda (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:16 PM

tallahasseedem (6,716 posts)

107. +1

Reply to this post

Response to a la izquierda (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:29 PM

Lilyeye (1,417 posts)

230. Agreed!

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:04 PM

malaise (245,615 posts)

81. FFS

I'm an atheist but have no problem with beautiful music

Reply to this post

Response to malaise (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:09 PM

Bjornsdotter (6,123 posts)

91. Ditto n/t

Reply to this post

Response to malaise (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:09 PM

a la izquierda (11,499 posts)

92. Yep!

People need something to get their knickers in a twist about daily, it seems.

Reply to this post

Response to a la izquierda (Reply #92)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:11 PM

malaise (245,615 posts)

96. Geez

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:06 PM

ForgoTheConsequence (4,725 posts)

86. You showed them.

Luckily I'm capable of putting things into their correct context and was able to enjoy it. I'm sure some would prefer using their white privilege to white wash that part of history.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:07 PM

LiberalElite (14,691 posts)

88. I hit the mute too -

I left the RC church decades ago and I don't believe in organized religion. Enough with the religion already.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:10 PM

Raine (28,174 posts)

93. Too bad you missed out, it's a beautiful song and it was done beautifully. A shame that you're so

intolerant.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:11 PM

WolverineDG (22,298 posts)

95. Let's see

how about appreciating the historical & cultural significance of this hymn?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_Hymn_of_the_Republic#Cultural_Influences

The lyrics of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" appear in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s sermons and speeches, most notably in his speech "How Long, Not Long" from the steps of the Alabama State Capitol building on March 25, 1965 after the 3rd Selma March, and in his final sermon "I've Been to the Mountaintop", delivered in Memphis, Tennessee on the evening of April 3, 1968, the night before his assassination. In fact, the latter sermon, King's last public words, ends with the first lyrics of the "Battle Hymn", "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord."

Since this is MLK's actual birthday, I find the inclusion of this hymn to be especially significant.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:11 PM

deutsey (20,166 posts)

97. They're really playing up the Emancipation Proclamation/MLK/African American President synergy

It made sense to have it part of that, imo.

Having said that, however, I think Twain's version of the song may have been even more appropriate:

Mine eyes have seen the orgy of the launching of the Sword;
He is searching out the hoardings where the stranger's wealth is stored;
He hath loosed his fateful lightnings, and with woe and death has scored;
His lust is marching on.

I have seen him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps;
They have builded him an altar in the Eastern dews and damps;
I have read his doomful mission by the dim and flaring lamps—
His night is marching on.

I have read his bandit gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my pretensions, so with you my wrath shall deal;
Let the faithless son of Freedom crush the patriot with his heel;
Lo, Greed is marching on!"

We have legalized the strumpet and are guarding her retreat;*
Greed is seeking out commercial souls before his judgement seat;
O, be swift, ye clods, to answer him! be jubilant my feet!
Our god is marching on!

In a sordid slime harmonious Greed was born in yonder ditch,
With a longing in his bosom—and for others' goods an itch.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich—
Our god is marching on.

* NOTE: In Manila the Government has placed a certain industry under the protection of our flag. (M.T.)

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:11 PM

Puglover (16,380 posts)

98. As you should have!

Because of course the inauguration is all about you and your sensibilities.

BTW not a christian here and somehow I made it through the song. Man, talk about not seeing the forest through the trees.

Reply to this post

Response to Puglover (Reply #98)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:20 PM

LiberalElite (14,691 posts)

113. Yeah boy people sure are touchy

And here i'm referring to all who liked the inclusion a performance of Battle Hymn of the Republic, but are getting their panties in a wad because some didn't like it.

Reply to this post

Response to LiberalElite (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:44 PM

Puglover (16,380 posts)

146. And thanks for playing MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY!

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:15 PM

AngryOldDem (13,402 posts)

103. One in every crowd.

Historical context must have gone right over your head.

You missed a hell of a performance, though.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:22 PM

arely staircase (12,482 posts)

116. I 'll alert the media

expect many calls for details.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:22 PM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

117. The President is a Christian.

Sorry that bothers you. He leans on his faith for many things in his life. It is fully within his rights to publicly display his faith. Even at the inauguration.

Reply to this post

Response to NCTraveler (Reply #117)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:10 PM

mr blur (7,753 posts)

222. And yet your Constitution is not a Christian document. Quite the reverse as I understand it.

Do you feel that it is only there to serve Christians, as many here seem to do?

Christian privilege, such a fine thing, isn't it? For the believers, anyway.

Reply to this post

Response to mr blur (Reply #222)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:17 PM

NCTraveler (30,481 posts)

224. Not sure what that has to do with anything stated.

What does that have to do with prayer or mentions of faith at the inauguration? It is extremely clear that this type of display is constitutional. The constitution agrees, the court agrees, Obama agrees.....

Reply to this post

Response to mr blur (Reply #222)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:17 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

300. Where do you live?

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:23 PM

name not needed (11,658 posts)

119. Lighten up, Francis.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:23 PM

geomon666 (7,506 posts)

120. As an atheist

I watched every bit of it. I can appreciate religious music and art without belittling the beliefs behind it.

Reply to this post

Response to geomon666 (Reply #120)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:24 PM

llmart (13,220 posts)

122. Agreed!

Reply to this post

Response to geomon666 (Reply #120)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:40 PM

Jeff In Milwaukee (13,992 posts)

191. On this board, you could have a fulltime job...

educating other so-called progressives on the ability to tolerate other peoples' belief systems.

Reply to this post

Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #191)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:39 PM

geomon666 (7,506 posts)

263. They can't pay me enough for that.

Maybe if I had a team.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:23 PM

Taverner (55,476 posts)

121. I always pegged that as Union Civil War Era Nostalgia

And I'm an Atheist

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:24 PM

Hekate (77,009 posts)

123. Sure... a Christian Abolitionist. How awful.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:27 PM

Coyotl (15,262 posts)

126. Now the god damn Benidiction

"With the blessing of your blessing ... we pray for your blessing" for abundance "we pray for your blessing, bless all of us .. that we may become a blessing ... "

OFCS, let's get back to reality!!

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:28 PM

proud2BlibKansan (96,793 posts)

128. Too bad. It was the best musical performance

of all of them so far.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:31 PM

Hamlette (14,781 posts)

132. it is all metaphor and even many "religious" people see it that way

As a 3rd generation godless commie pinko my family taught that it is all a beautiful myth which teaches lessons about us, not unlike the Greek and Roman myths. And the song is beautiful, unlike the pledge and our money which contain more egregious violations of the idea we are secular.

Ignore the bad, appreciate the good.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:32 PM

SidDithers (44,228 posts)

135. ...

Sid

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:34 PM

union_maid (3,502 posts)

136. Missed a beautiful rendition, then

And those young people singing it looked like their smiles were genuine. I'm not a bit religious, but it made me tear up.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:37 PM

bklyncowgirl (7,960 posts)

138. You know, every once in a while I wonder if I should declare myself an athiest.

Then I listen to a self-proclaimed atheist snootily decry a beautiful musical performance of a hymn with great historical import for this country, just to make her own intolerant point about religion in the public sphere and I decide that this is a club that I do not want to join.

Reply to this post

Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #138)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:44 PM

LP2K12 (885 posts)

144. +1

Reply to this post

Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #138)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:45 PM

name not needed (11,658 posts)

147. Yep.

For a bunch of people tired of the Evangelicals nonsense, they sure take after them.

Reply to this post

Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #138)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:50 PM

The Velveteen Ocelot (100,713 posts)

154. You got that right.

Reply to this post

Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #138)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:15 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

206. So could you please list what insults are sufficient to mention?

Do we need to wait for a new inquisition for your permission to be annoyed?

"Oh, it's not that bad. You should let it go" has been the refrain against women, blacks, LGBT and every other civil rights movement. Shortly followed with "I'm a supporter, but your absolutism is driving me away!", as you state here.

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #206)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:27 PM

bklyncowgirl (7,960 posts)

229. People expressing their 1st amendment right to religious expression is not an occasion for outrage

There's a big difference between active discrimination such as that experienced by the groups you referenced and--OH THE HORROR--having to listen to religious sentiments that most of your fellow citizens hold sacred but that you do not share.

I dislike intolerence whether it comes from the left or the right but you have every right to be annoyed if you like just as I have every right to be annoyed at your annoyance.

Let's face it, this is the Internet, more particularly this is DU, we stand by our absolute right to be pissed off and outraged at something!

Reply to this post

Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #229)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:40 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

237. Yes, it's only people talking, it's not like 70% of the public wouldn't vote for an atheist

for President. Nah, no actions involved other than moving lips.

Oh wait.

(Polling varies: "Would you vote for an otherwise-fully-qualified person for President if he was an atheist?" gets "yes" from in the 30s to around 50% depending on the poll. However, it's always behind other groups such as "gay" or "muslim". "Just words" have consequences)

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:39 PM

Nye Bevan (25,406 posts)

139. You did the right thing.

Listening to that song has been know to transform even the most devout atheists into fundamentalist Christians.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:40 PM

TheCowsCameHome (39,978 posts)

141. Well, that's your loss.

Personally, I love the tune.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:44 PM

MadrasT (7,237 posts)

145. shrug

To me, it's a Union Civil War song. As a Daughter of a Union Veteran, I love the crap out of that tune.

I'm also an atheist.

To each his own.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:48 PM

union_maid (3,502 posts)

151. We gonna get rid of all religious music?

The church was a major patron of the arts in Europe. Do we really want those Old Masters in publicly funded museums? Then there's Gospel. You don't have to believe anything in particular to just feel inspired by that. Life is not all black and white.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:49 PM

RudynJack (1,044 posts)

153. Then I presume

you've never watched an inauguration, and don't plan to watch one within your lifetime?

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 01:56 PM

SidDithers (44,228 posts)

156. Just for you...

Sometimes you just have to appreciate a piece of music as a piece of music.

Sid

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:00 PM

Laochtine (394 posts)

160. As an atheist

I know christians need their binky, so as long as they don't shoot up the place I forgive the their trespasses on me

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:01 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

161. OMG, so many posts from people who must have just arrived in the U.S.! Welcome, immigrants!

*sarcasm*

Like they've never seen a Presidential Inauguration before.

Just one more lame attempt to criticize Obama.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:05 PM

cordelia (2,174 posts)

166. Oh, please.

Annoying eye-rolling thing inserted here.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:08 PM

obietiger (500 posts)

168. Fox News must agree with you

I turned over to their channel as the song was ending to see if they would say something nice about it. There was only laughter being broadcast.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:12 PM

lynne (3,118 posts)

171. This thread is rather ironic coming on MLK Day -

- when we're to join together, put aside difference, and accept each other for the persons that we are.

Guess King should have specifically referenced music choices.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:13 PM

Fumesucker (45,851 posts)

172. Imagine the full metal jacket hissy fit that would have been pitched

If Imagine were performed at the inauguration.

No hell below us
Above us only sky

Reply to this post

Response to Fumesucker (Reply #172)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:21 PM

patrice (47,992 posts)

273. Richard Blanco made all of those connections. Sky figured prominently in what he said. nt

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:17 PM

hughee99 (16,113 posts)

173. So an abolition song rooted in religion makes you feel excluded, but you're fine with Rudolph? n/t

Reply to this post

Response to hughee99 (Reply #173)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:24 PM

HappyMe (20,277 posts)

177. lol!

I was wondering the same thing.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:18 PM

CalFresh (99 posts)

174. Great song for today.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

I love it!

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:22 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

175. Prefer "Dixie" Do You?

Dixie is from the same time period, and doesn't use religious symbolism.

I guess Dixie is a much more inclusionary song.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #175)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:27 PM

Silent3 (12,322 posts)

180. What a weird and ridiculous retort.

How does that even get at the point the OP is making, whether you agree with the OP or not?

Reply to this post

Response to Silent3 (Reply #180)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:30 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

181. It's not religious, so it must be more inclusionary

The Battle Hymn of the Republic - as was John Brown's Body - is a retort to Dixie, in context.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #181)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:35 PM

Silent3 (12,322 posts)

186. So the idea of dropping both religious and racist at the same time...

...is too much for you to handle?

Reply to this post

Response to Silent3 (Reply #186)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:42 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

193. Yeah, we can airbrush all of history

The idea of it being a civil anthem with religious symbolism at the same time is clearly too much for some to handle.

The plea "God shed his grace on thee" in America The Beautiful is fraught with a Protestant Christian doctrine.

The song makes racist irredentist Confederates squirm, and that's good enough for me.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #193)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:37 PM

Silent3 (12,322 posts)

219. Maybe if it was a rare religious touch...

...and not surrounded by religious invocations and swearing to God, swearing on top of Bibles, visiting churches. As it is, however, it's one more straw on the camel's back.

But hey, let's not airbrush any of that away. It's convenient when tradition and history favors those who hold a privileged position.

Reply to this post

Response to Silent3 (Reply #219)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:45 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

239. "those who hold a privileged position"

Well, I don't know who you are talking about, as I have no religious affiliation at all, and you are denigrating a person who was an abolitionist, a pacifist, and a suffragette.

The lyrics were written by someone who spent the rest of her life fighting for the right to vote - a privilege you have always had.

Reply to this post

Response to jberryhill (Reply #239)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:08 PM

Silent3 (12,322 posts)

248. There's more than one kind of privilege...

...and always people who don't enjoy those privileges who will oddly defend others privilege anyway.

But if that one particular song is so damned important, its sentiment simply cannot be tapped without its built-in religious trappings, how about we keep that one song and trash all the other religious claptrap?

And short of that, how about at least showing a bit of fucking understanding for someone like the OP who might have reached their limit for looking the other way when separation of church and state is blithely ignored at the point of that one song instead of somewhere else your esteemed self would approve of?

Reply to this post

Response to Silent3 (Reply #180)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:56 PM

ProudToBeBlueInRhody (16,399 posts)

196. On MLK day....

....many of the songs sung by those who marched on Selma and DC were hymns....Amazing Grace, Swing Low, Sweet Chariot....

The OP's going to have to get over it fast, because their complaints on THIS DAY are inappropriate. Period.

Reply to this post

Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #196)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:18 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

208. Yeah, it's too soon. We need to wait to do anything.

Boy that sounds familiar....

Reply to this post

Response to jeff47 (Reply #208)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:14 PM

ProudToBeBlueInRhody (16,399 posts)

223. No, I get it....

....those silly, silly people singing those songs, right?

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #223)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:42 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

238. No, it's just never a good time to start supporting minorities.

Just like when those "silly, silly people singing these songs" started.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #208)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:47 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

240. You don't know much about Julia Ward Howe, do you?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #240)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:53 PM

jeff47 (26,549 posts)

243. You don't realize this isn't about one song, do you? (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #243)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:01 AM

Silent3 (12,322 posts)

313. It's most convenient to pretend it's only about the one song. n/t

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #175)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:30 PM

DevonRex (22,541 posts)

211. Made me laugh!!

That would be the counterpart, wouldn't it!

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #175)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:38 PM

MineralMan (144,008 posts)

215. I was thinking about "Old Folks at Home."

It sounds more like a hymn, somehow.

It used to be used for the Florida Governor's Inauguration. Eventually, they had to change the lyrics, though. Apparently "longing for the old plantation," didn't fit by the 1970s.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:26 PM

patrice (47,992 posts)

178. That appears pretty narrow minded to me. nt

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:27 PM

zappaman (20,571 posts)

179. Oh brother

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:31 PM

RoverSuswade (587 posts)

183. It's just a song.

Get a grip.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:32 PM

Stinky The Clown (64,620 posts)

184. When a friend dies, do you boycott the funeral if it is religious?

Geeeze, give it a rest. I am not ready to say I am a complete atheist, but I am totally areligious.

The song is moving and patriotic, the actual words notwithstanding.

I bet others changed their channel because the title says "Battle Hymn."

But hey . . . . we're all impressed by your channel changing.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:34 PM

ProudToBeBlueInRhody (16,399 posts)

185. Be honest

It wasn't that hard to turn it off, was it?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:38 PM

Jeff In Milwaukee (13,992 posts)

187. Why were you watching at all?

Considering the highlight of the ceremony is the President placing his hand on a Bible.

Were you just looking for an excuse to piss and moan?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 02:38 PM

abbeyco (1,551 posts)

188. So thrilled you had to inform everyone.

Obviously you're not quite so tolerant of the beliefs of others. Sad...

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:00 PM

mokawanis (4,163 posts)

198. I'm just surprised you turned on the tv

I have no criticisms or complaints against you because you turned it off, I'm just surprised you turned it on to begin with. I mean, you had to know that presidential inaugurations have never been a secular ceremony. Did you expect this one to be any different?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:00 PM

thucythucy (6,729 posts)

199. At least they're not singing "Dixie."

The BHotR is a piece of American history, honoring the sacrifice of those who fought to end slavery.

Can't think of a more fitting tune for this occasion. Well, maybe "This Land is Your Land," but I expect that one will be sung as well.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:03 PM

11 Bravo (23,431 posts)

200. Got a telephone?

If so, you can call someone who gives a shit.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:16 PM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

207. I imagine that sooner or later, we'll evolve to the point in which any song sung, poem read...

I imagine that sooner or later, we'll evolve to the point in which any song sung, poem read and story told will deny any and all imaginary beliefs systems-- up to and including religion, politics, philosophy, arts, etc, and all the other wholly imaginary, man-made constructs which appear no where but our own minds.

Then and only then will everyone will be included.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #207)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:57 PM

arely staircase (12,482 posts)

221. great cultural/anthropological retort to the OP and general observation

religion in a historically signicant song in an artistic performance at a political/governmental ceremony!

amazing

it is like all the humanities on grand display all at once.

The religion aspect is interesting in a Durkheim/Sacred/Profane sort of way.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:32 PM

workinclasszero (28,270 posts)

213. Alrighty then

Whatever citizen, its a free country as the saying goes.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 04:46 PM

DevonRex (22,541 posts)

220. So you never go to the opera or art museums, I take it? You

walk out of movies at the first mention of god. You close books,with god references. You poor thing. You've missed out on so much in your life by being so afraid of a word or a depiction.

You know, I am not a flag person. But my husband religiously puts the flag on our house on all federal holidays. He likes it. And I love him.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:18 PM

Phx_Dem (11,198 posts)

225. Good. You didn't deserve to hear that heart-wrenchingly beautiful rendition.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:19 PM

Recursion (56,416 posts)

226. It was beautiful. And I appreciated the wartime version of the lyrics (nt)

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:23 PM

onenote (37,377 posts)

227. Thank goodness they didn't read the Emancipation Proclamation out loud

You probably would have passed out.

Excerpt from the Emancipation Proclamation:

"And upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution, upon military necessity, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind, and the gracious favor of Almighty God."

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:24 PM

dsc (51,220 posts)

228. I think it is one thing to object to the prayers

which are pretty much purposeless without religion but this song in particular has a strong, secular purpose. It was the anthem of abolition which was the first civil rights cause our nation ever engaged in. I think that it would be just as much a violation of separation of church and state to throw out this song due to its Christian imagery as it is to include the prayers.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:30 PM

CanonRay (12,469 posts)

231. You have to think of it in context with the Civil War

and not the religion of it. I'm not Christian, but as a Civil War buff, I understand how much the song meant to the Union.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:30 PM

Robb (39,665 posts)

232. You have more than one channel?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:31 PM

JDPriestly (57,936 posts)

233. That's the history of our country. That's our tradition. I like it.

We were built by people who loved God and that good ole time religion.

Don't feel intimidated by it. Be who you are and don't resent others for being who they are.

You don't have to agree with the meaning, but let's be proud of our heritage.

The Founding Fathers weren't fundamentalists. They studied Greek and Latin and knew their mythology as well as their Bible. But the families who settled the Mid-West, the South and the West were not all, but were mostly very religious and mostly Protestant.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:32 PM

Phx_Dem (11,198 posts)

234. And you couldn't wait to share your pettiness on DU. Lovely.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:36 PM

Brigid (17,621 posts)

236. To paraphrase an old saying . . .

It is far better not to post something and be thought a fool than to post it and leave no doubt.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 05:58 PM

No Vested Interest (4,915 posts)

245. "Turned it off and tuned out."

That'll show'em.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:16 PM

Swamp Lover (431 posts)

251. Real tolerant.

But I support your right to be a narrow minded bigot.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:24 PM

juajen (8,515 posts)

256. I clicked down to the bottom, because

I am sick of all the arguing. I find myself doing this over and over again. Why does every other post have trivial arguments, that tend to turn me and others off?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:28 PM

ScreamingMeemie (68,918 posts)

259. As one of "no Faith," in either the imaginary or even you fine people... That was one of

my favorite song to sing in High School. As it is, it was Pomp and all the trappings to go with it. Those who think otherwise look truly foolish and odd.

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Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #259)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:56 PM

llmart (13,220 posts)

268. Thank you.....

sometimes it's just about the music and the feelings it evokes in a person, and there isn't any "agenda" in having it part of the ceremony. It's part of the pomp and ceremony and tradition. As I said initially, it was a petty thing to say on this momentous day.

People who have to pick apart everything and find something negative to focus on need to stop taking themselves so seriously.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:28 PM

SpartanDem (4,533 posts)

260. This a new level of stupid trival, whining

You might want to pick up a history of book or two and understand why on MLK Day this song is significant.

Reply to this post

Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 06:46 PM

patrice (47,992 posts)

266. Everyone in this thread should read this article & decide what's going on with certain kinds of OPs.

Some people don't feel that it is necessary to make a big deal about their reactions all of the time. Their thoughts and feelings are not threatened by what other people do, nor do they need the attention of others in that regard.

Other people feel for some reason (and perhaps all of us should ask why; what reason is that?) that it is necessary to make themselves the point of things.

Here's a perspective on this that all of us might consider given the facts of corporate personhood funding things like a cozy relationship between MoveOn and the Tea Party amongst other things, I"m sure, lately:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/20/far-right-poses-as-much-danger-to-the-u-s-as-radical-islam/

One of the core issues with the extreme right is that while they espouse individual freedom and like to try and spread fear regarding the government’s activities, they also seem to believe in a type of authoritarianism—one of the very things they profess to loathe in government—that includes a strong resistance to authority from what they view as “outgroups,” namely blacks and women, unions, and more.

OP appears to be a "my way or the highway" presumed authority opposing anything different from itself on the claim that whatever disagrees with them is authority and ought to be opposed on their say so alone.

Co - existence is considered moral terpitude in some mindsets. They'd apparently much prefer to dictate the terms of "better dead than _________________ ." It's a base building tactic that completely avoids specifying concrete objectives, processes, procedures, and timelines, let alone outcomes, and tasks (except for getting people to repeat memes or click Like or Reply in a forum) because it has nothing workable and it fears any attempt to arrive at that will result in its own deconstruction. Sound familiar?

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Response to patrice (Reply #266)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:19 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

301. Oh, I think I know "what's going on." So much....CONCERN, you see.

Reply to this post

Response to WinkyDink (Reply #301)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:35 PM

patrice (47,992 posts)

305. Like we're a bunch of babies whose brains are so easily re-programmed, we need NANNIES to tell us

how to feel about a song.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:03 PM

aikoaiko (32,699 posts)

271. They skipped the part about glory to old Georgia and to hell with GATech

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:28 PM

Whisp (24,096 posts)

274. good. who needs miserable people on this glorious day.

Most of us are very happy. happy happy joy joy, nyah.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:29 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

275. I'm an Atheist and i enjoyed it, i enjoy listening to Catholic, buddhist, Hindu etc

music at times also.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:29 PM

tabasco (22,974 posts)

277. Union won the war. Get over it.

Bye.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:34 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

279. Did you get Offended by that Poet Saying "Namaste" ?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:39 PM

bluerum (6,109 posts)

281. I always found gospel inspiring. And I am Buddhist if anything.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:57 PM

JI7 (86,600 posts)

286. Churck Schumer is Jewish, i wonder if he was offended and felt left out

with references to things which might involve christians.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #286)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:14 PM

WinkyDink (51,311 posts)

296. Sure, you wonder. Did he SEEM like he was offended?? Good grief.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:02 PM

demosincebirth (12,277 posts)

290. How silly.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 08:42 PM

Doctor_J (36,392 posts)

291. Excellent! That's why there are so many channels

and a remote.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:23 PM

louis c (8,652 posts)

303. How Foolish

I am secular and cry when I hear the Battle Hymn of the Republic, because I know what that song means for this country. How slaves became free while brave men died on battlefields all over America to preserve this great union.

It may mention God, after all there are some pretty religious people who do the right thing and make the ultimate sacrifice. There are many Secular people who also do the right thing and make the ultimate sacrifice.

Get with it. Enjoy all that is diverse in this country, including those who believe in God as well as those of us who don't.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:45 PM

GP6971 (22,747 posts)

307. Interesting how the OP

"Disappears". I guess their conviction lasts for just so many posts.

My initial reaction to the BHoR being sung? Wow, a shot across the bow.......north vs. south. Then I remembered it was it was MLK day and everything made sense. Very appropriate IMOH.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:47 PM

WCGreen (45,558 posts)

308. I do believe the Battle Hymn was written during the Civil War...

That was was driven by Abolitionists who saw slavery as an affront to Christianity.

Hence the idea of His Truth is Marching on meaning the North was propelled into war by the Abolitionist who were convinced God was on their side.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Original post)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:22 PM

alcibiades_mystery (36,437 posts)