The root of all problems with guns

[AverageMe]

I was doing a reply to the post about "Cops handcuff and interrogate boy, 7, for hours over missing $5: family" http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022285356 when I realized I had presented the perfect case why assault rifles should be banned. I was talking about my son:

I do not believe in corporal punishment. I take away things he wants and send him to his room, but he still does not listen, or attend school if he feels he has something better to do. He is now 15 and I am very worried about him. He hits his *girlfriend* and always gets in fights that are *never his fault*. What can I do. I have sent him to psychiatrist but he will not talk to them. He knows I will never hit him, so he has no respect for me or anyone. A little police terror might get his attention.

I have been dealing with this for five years. He knows that I love him, and he is not a bad kid. He just loses his temper rapidly when he feels he is disrespected. Why he hits his girlfriend, I do not know, he certainly did not learn that from me. He is a good looking, even handsome, boy and she gets jealous when he talks with other girls. He says she has to know her place. I tell them both, they are too young to be more then friends, but it goes in one ear and out the other and never stops in the brain. I think I have spoken to every therapist in town. He is smart and he knows it, gets straight A's in school, although he does not attend half the time, and dismisses therapy as just being mumbo-jumbo. If you take every bad thing you heard about Mitt bossing people around when he was young, that is my son. The world has to follow his rules, he does not have to follow the world's rules. This is why I wish the police would put a little respect and terror in him. I do not know what I can do!!!

I have never been a gun owner and have no weapons in my home. My son has never shown an interest in guns. But what kind of fear would I live in if I had weapons in my home and my son had an interest in guns. This is something we should think about. My son is not crazy, he gets into a lot of fights but it has never been something bad enough to involve the police. He does not fight on school grounds. Right now it only involves bloody noses and black eyes, but what if he had access to an AR-15.

[freshwest]

1. Have you taught him what is moral, what will succeed in life?

[AverageMe]

4. I have tried, as I said he is a good kid and is smart

He has anger control problems, thinks he knows what is best, and is in love with himself. But he is responsible in his household chores, is a wiz with computers, and a leader with his group of friends. But he feels no connection to other people, everyone is responsible only for themselves, and is very material in his viewpoint. In a material sense I have no doubt he will be successful, but if things do not go his way he deals with it very poorly. He is always right and everyone should realize this,

[freshwest]

8. You sound bambozzled by your own kid. I have to admit, I was religious when my kid was small.

Last edited Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:25 AM - Edit history (1)

Took 'em to church and read all the stuff about violence being wrong, selfishness was wrong, practicing forgiveness and love and turn the other cheek. No matter what and I'm wondering if you had those talks with him.

But the other issue is you say your kid knows you love him, but I know that my kid loved me very much, thought I was wonderful, smart and right about things. I was the moral guide. Because we cannot just be buddies and pals to our kids, they have those elsewhere. We bring them into this world and it's our duty to teach them how to survive and have the values that will protect them when no one is looking over their shooulders or forcing them to behave. It has to be ingrained, come to their understanding that there is much more important things that having your own way.

You seem to be saying that your kid is all powerful and you are helpless. I was big on building my kid's self-esteem, didn't spank, etc. There were anger problems, but more to a lack of understanding what was expected and wanting approval. I acted with respect and demanded the same, to me and everyone else.

No way would I have permitted my kid to get involved with anyone and hit them, that would be grounding until time to leave home. If that was my kid, he'd've heard he was wrong from the time the sun rose until it set until he agreed to change. You have to do something to let him know that his life will be destroyed if he keeps on this path.

You don't need religion to do it either, we're not religious anymore, but the lessons stayed. No one gets to tell anyone, especially a girlfriend to stay in her place. That's abuse.

Something is seriously wrong with your story here, and I'm almost at the point of thinking you are shining us on. It sounds like you have taken every criticism of liberal child rearing and said you did it, but that's not what you are decribing.

To say that just because you didn't hit him is why he's gone bad, or needs to be terrorized. That's full conservative abuse speak right there. Liberal families I know did not spank, but the children knew that using violence was simply not done. You are painting your child as all powerful, and there is not way that is so.

I'm done I guess, because I'm having trouble believing you here and I'm sorry. Someone else may know better and continue with you. If this is really what is happening and you are this overwhelmed, get help and good luck.

[AverageMe]

12. I am his Step-father and entered his life when he was eight years old

His mother had to work and he was raised by his grandmother for his first eight years. I am 16 years older then his mother and tried to be a friend to her three children first. I have never had any children of my own, before becoming a father to them. I always respected them as little people who can be reasoned with and never said "because I said so". I never lost my temper with them and always explained why they were being punished. This is one reason I do not understand his issues with anger, he was the middle child, and I have never had any problems with the other two. I was never religious so I did not require the go to church, although their grandmother was very religious and I know they went to church when they lived with her.

[freshwest]

17. Okay, you just added another dimension here. Step-father.

This often does not go well, at least not with boys in my experience, which I admit is limited. And you weren't with him in those very important first few years, so the connection isn't as strong. Is grandmother still involved or do other people in the family discuss the issues of violence with him?

Fortunately guns are not involved even though some may want to think that's the issue. His level of violence, having been brought up with women, and I'm hoping that there was no violence in growing up before you got on the scene and into this family, is a puzzle.

If he is the only one acting out, it seems like he would benefit from a strong dose of attention from you. Middle children can have issues about attention. The older and younger kids sometimes get more attention due to parents learning and just practical matters. The middle just has to shift between siblings.

I'm wondering if you are able to devote a lot of time to this child, soon to be a man, and get him to realize that he doesn't need to control his girlfriend ((although I'm old fashioned and don't think he's old enough if he's having troubles already)) or defend himself from this 'respect' issue with other kids.

I think sometimes when a kid does that, it's not about feeling he's right, it's wanting to prove something. People that are truly confident don't feel the need to prove anything or demand respect from their adolescent friends. That's the wrong focus at that age.

Maybe a lot more attention from you, so much so that he doesn't have time for this girlfriend or these fights, if you have the time, would help as a diversion?

Because any kid beating on people is going to get in trouble. If not other people in the community, from the law. And if he and this girlfriend are this involved, is pregnancy on the horizon? What do her parents think about this, what do the school counselors know?

This could blow up and ruin his life as well as hers, if it's as bad as you think. The fights with other kids, this is serious stuff. Most school districts do not allow it, they have zero tolerance and no matter how smart he is at school, he will have consequences.

You're in a very bad place if it's as bad as you say it is, because the world is not going to put up with him much longer. Fifteen is fast to becoming an adult in the eyes of the community and the law. Now it may be less severe than I'm imagining, but something is wrong. Do you have money to get him counseling, something really good? I know some people don't and some communities don't offer help. What do the other family members say?

Anyway, good luck, I'm not a pro, just a faceless person on the internet, do what you can to prevent the boy from going down the wrong path. It's got to be very disturbing to know one's child is causing problems. We're anonymous here, but somewhere in real life this is not, and there are serious consequences coming.

[AverageMe]

21. Thank you Freshwest for caring.

[Zoeisright]

9. You think THAT is the answer to gun violence?

My god, how incredibly naive.

The point is that guns make anger a deadly emotion. When you have a gun, a flash of anger can turn into murder. Gun humpers just don't get that connection.

[freshwest]

10. Wow...

[Berserker]

11. Do you think

That calling people "Gun Humpers" makes you above those who have guns. Do you have a sexual fetish about guns?

[galileoreloaded]

13. ZoeisHyperbolic!

[ErikJ]

15. Agreed

Thats why a gun in the home increases your chance of being killed by guns by 400%. When people lose their temper too many reach for the gun.

[backwoodsbob]

34. gun humpers?

[aikoaiko]

2. Respectfully, I don't see a happy future for your son.

If he continues he will likely end up in jail. Someone will file charges eventually.

Worse yet, he may meet someone who is bigger and meaner than him.

I wish you and your family well, but sometimes bad things have to happen before someone is motivated to change.

Good luck.

[AverageMe]

5. I fear you are correct, but he does not understand this

[backwoodsbob]

36. sorry but...he sounds like a sociopath

you seriously need to get him help.

Best of luck

[GreenStormCloud]

3. Why should you take my guns away from me, because your son is troubled? N/T

[AverageMe]

6. Because people like my son exist

My son is not the only *troubled" young man out there. To many people he is very successful and is a role model. They have no idea the number of fights he gets into.

[GreenStormCloud]

27. Anyone who has been convicted of a violent crime should be on the NICS list.

At present, due to age, he can't legally buy a gun. His GF should press charges against him for hitting her. And laws on who is on the NICS list should be broadened.

But that is no reason to try to take my guns away from me. I am now a senior citizen and have been around guns for my entire life with no problems.

[KharmaTrain]

22. The Root Of The Problems Right Here...

Instead of looking at what might be a turbulent person who would abuse a weapon and end up taking someone's life, all that matters is "taking MY guns away from ME". There's nothing in that post that mentions that, but it's the leap that's automatically taken when a situation like this is brought up. The son of the poster sounds like someone who should be monitored for anger issues and could be a danger if allowed to legally purchase a weapon. A strong case for both background checks, but all that is being "interpreted" here is .we're gonna "grab guns". Yet another example of people talking past one another and why this murdering spree will continue...

[hack89]

23. "why assault rifles should be banned."

seems pretty clear to me.

Why didn't the poster reach the conclusion that "in my particular case it would be best to not have guns in the house." and just leave it at that?

[KharmaTrain]

24. Cause He Has An Opinion...

...and while decorum around this place has gone to shits, I still like to afford the person the benefit of the doubt. So do you think his son should be allowed to purchase or own a firearm? I don't care if its automatic, semi-auto or instant reverse...it's still a gun in dangerous hands. There's the issue...or do you think gun laws should be one-size fits all?

[hack89]

25. His son should not be allowed to purchase or own a firearm

the trick is to devise a process that respects his right to due process.

Gun laws should not be one-size fits all.

There are three groups responsible for gun deaths in America.

The biggest is suicides. The second is violent criminals. Then we have a tiny group of mentally ill mass killers.

Why not address each one separately? Mental health coverage to reduce suicides. A harsh crackdown on felons using guns and as well as shutting down sources of illegal guns. And for mass killers, besides mental health care, we need some system to identify potentially violent people and ensure that they are not allowed to threaten society.

[Myrina]

28. ... until he breaks into your house and steals your gun ...

... and takes it (along with other fun stuff he's stolen and stockpiled) to a shopping mall or other crowded place & wreaks havoc.

Then what?

[hack89]

31. If you want 100% guarantees I can't help you

you pass good laws and enforce them as well as you can. What reasonable laws would prevent your scenario?

[GreenStormCloud]

29. Because he said that he wants to ban all assault weapons.

When he realizes that so-called assault weapons account for only a tiny portion of murders and that handguns account for most gun murders, he will want to ban them too.

I agree that this young guy should not have access to any gun.

[Berserker]

7. Hitting his

Girlfriend is bad and it's up to you to get that straightened out and fast. As for if he had access to a AR-15 he would go nuts is like saying if he had access to another mans hairy pimply ass he would turn gay.

[slackmaster]

14. I demystified firearms for my stepson, as my stepfather did for me at age 10.

I always kept weapons locked up so he couldn't get to them. But I taught him the basics of safe firearm handling and how to unload both the Ruger 10/22 and the Smith & Wesson .38 revolver I've always kept in the home.

He was very interested in video games. When I first allowed him to shoot that little rifle, he got very good at hitting the target with amazing speed.

He wasn't really interested in them after that. I think he found the video games more entertaining.

[Jenoch]

16. You need to get your step-son to a mental health professional.

I don't know what kind of therapists you have spoken to, but from family experience, the boy sounds like he is more than a little troubled. Your post describes some characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder. You seem to understand that this boy has serious issues and is not just 'acting up'. Of course you need to keep him away from guns. Good luck to you, him, and his mother.

[AverageMe]

19. Thank you Jenoch

You hit the nail on its head. From what I read the best way to approach this is to say the whole family is going to counseling. He would then be going not for himself, but only as just a part of the family unit. I am lucky enough to be able to afford this, but what about those who can not afford this approach. What about those people who dismiss their son getting into fights and say "boys will be boys." (Excluding his actions with his girlfriend).

According to what I read 1 to 2% of the population may have, to some extent, "narcissistic personality disorder" when they are young. However, the majority outgrow it as they become older. There are nine different forms this disorder can take.

Of course, he will never be near a gun because it is not something I, or he, has any interest in. It is not a part of our urban upper middle-class culture. But for millions of Americans guns are a part of their culture, and there are millions of boys just like him, 1 or 2 in every hundred, whose family will say, "boys will be boys."

[marions ghost]

33. Yes--NPD Narcissist Personality Disorder

is serious and not often identified until someone is much older. The fact that the OP dad is worried means that he is onto it already. NPD is difficult to treat, as it's an obsessive disorder, but improvement can be made.

The father is right. This type can be volatile, abusive, and should not be around lethal weapons. NPD is theorized as an early maladaptation to family stress-- and thus compassion, identification, and help is the best way to go. I'm not up enough on breaking the cycle in adolescents, but I think if the pattern can be seen clearly in a teen, it would be wise to seek help. If the son refuses, the parents should go--they need to know how to deal with it and that can go a long way to improving things.

Dad--you are onto something. Don't be afraid of this but if you care, don't ignore it. Thanks for posting.

[ManiacJoe]

18. You ask the wrong question.

> ... but what if he had access to an AR-15?

The question you need to be asking is, why would you let him have access to any gun, AR-15 or otherwise?

If you own any guns, you have a responsibility to keep them away from unauthorized users, like your son. In this example, a true gun safe would be required, not a lock box, not a cable lock, but a true gun safe. Obviously, you would not be sharing the lock combination with him.

[AverageMe]

20. How many Gun owners take all the precautions that they should take?

[ManiacJoe]

42. Most of the ones that I know.

However, as large as that number might be relatively speaking, the population is draws from is certainly not large enough to be a representable sample.

[Remmah2]

26. Nobody is forcing you to buy a semi-auto cosmetically impaired firearm.

So why ban something you don't want to own anyway?

[2on2u]

30. You can read here if you like

http://www.hriptc.org/content/aggressive.php

Werbach, Melvyn: Nutritional influences on aggressive behavior. J Ortho Med 1995; v.7, no. 1. Evidence is emerging that iron deficiency among adolescent males has been shown to be directly associated with aggressive behavior.

Schoenthaler, SJ, Bier ID: The effect of vitamin-mineral supplementation on juvenile delinquency among American schoolchildren:a randomized, double-blind placebo-controlled trial. J Altern Complement Med 2000; 6(1) -17. Numerous studies conducted in juvenile correctional institutions have reported that violence and serious antisocial behavior have been dramatically reduced after implementing nutrient dense diets.

Walsh,W: Zinc deficiency, metal metabolism, and behavioral disorders. Report of the Health Research Institute 1995. This study focuses on persons born with a metal-metabolism disorder often resulting in episodic violence, hyperactivity and conduct disorder.

Sever Y, Ashkenazi A, Tyano S, Weizman, A: Iron treatment in children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. A preliminary report. Neuropsych 1997; 35(4):178-80.A study of 14 boys aged 7-11 years using iron for therapeutic treatment of hyperactivity. The report recommends further study based on the finding that increased blood iron resulted in the reduction of aggressive behaviors.

Department of Family Medicine, Pomeranian Medical Academy, Poland: The effects of magnesium physiological supplementation on hyperactivity in children with ADHD. Mag Res 1997; 10(2):149-56. The report from this institute states that dietetic factors can play a significant role in the origin of ADHD and that magnesium deficiency can result in disruptive behaviors.

Schoenthaler S: Vitamins Against Crime: Supplementation and antisocial behavior in institutions. Medical Nutrition 1990; 34-37. Brain function requires adequate nutrition, and correction of chronic undernutrition can improve antisocial behavior. Researchers have found that vitamin and mineral tests can be a good indicator of violent behavior.

Sanstead H: A brief history of the influence of trace elements on brain function. J Clin Nutrit 1986; 43:293-98. Historically iron, copper, manganese and zinc deficiency have been associated with mental impairment. Manifestations of such deficiencies include confusion, violence, dullness and death.

Schoenthaler S: Applied nutrition and behavior. J Applied Nutr 1991;43(1):31-39. This research showed that nutrient dense diets in 813 state facilities resulted in significantly improved conduct. The distribution of vitamin and mineral supplements was a significant factor in promoting less violent behavior.

Schrauzer G, Vroey E: Effects of nutritional lithium supplementation on mood. Biological Trace Element Res 1994; 40:89-101. The results of an intensive study of former drug users, violent offenders or those with a history of domestic violence assert that lithium supplementation has a mood improving and stabilizing effect. Authors suggest that a nutritional lithium supplement may be a valuable drug in violence and suicide prevention programs.

Lonsdale D, et al.: J of Advancement of Medicine 1994; 7(3):171-180. A review of the potential for high calorie malnutrition as a link for senseless violence and crime. The author asserts that if it is true that body chemistry plays a role in abnormal behavior, that it is largely a waste of time to treat violent criminals by incarcerating them and ignoring the critical factor of their diet.

Walsh W, et al.: Elevated blood copper/zinc ratios in assaultive young males. Physiology and Behavior 1997; 62(2)327-329. Stresses the importance of the study of different metal ratios and their association with behavior in an effort to identify those with increased risk. Improvement in biochemistry in these individuals is seen as very beneficial.

Carney MWP: Vitamin deficiency and mental symptoms. British Journal of Psychiatry 1990;156:878-882. Study reveals that 53% of unselected patients admitted to psychiatric hospital unit were vitamin deficient. Vitamin B deficiency has been associated with neuropsychiatric disorders and depression. Additionally, folic acid deficiency has been linked to affective illnesses.

Gottschalk L, et al.: Abnormalities in hair trace elements as indicators of aberrant behavior. Comprehensive psychiatry 1991; 32(3):229-237. The authors suggest that abnormal trace mineral metabolism may be involved in aggressive behavior and that careful mineral analysis could be effective in identifying those who are predisposed to such behavior.

Rosen GM, et al.: Iron deficiency among incarcerated juvenile delinquents. J Adolesc Health Care 1985;6:419-423. This study from 1985 can be viewed as one of the early looks at the effects of iron deficiency and abnormal behavior. Through research performed in juvenile detention facilities, a high prevalence of iron deficiency was found among both male and female inmates. The study suggests further research into the problem of behavior issues and iron deficiency.

Lead Exposure and Child Behavior: American Journal of Public Health 1992; 82(10):1356-1359. This study evaluated blood lead levels of young children. The group with the highest levels of lead present in blood samples was found to score the highest in Total Problem Behavior Score checklists.

Stevens L., et al.: Phospholipids influence behavior. The Nutrition Report 1996;38 May-June). A study performed on equal number of young boys, half with low fatty acid measures, showed that behavior problems were significantly higher in the study group with the lower acid levels. Greater number of health and learning problems occurred in the lower level group as well.

Magnesium reduces hyperactivity. Autism Research Review 1998;12(2):4. Children in this study were ages 7 to 12. After a 6-month period, the control group, which received no magnesium supplementation, was found to have behavior that worsened, whereas the other children receiving magnesium supplementation therapy had statistically improved results in behavioral assessment scales.

Walsh W, et al.: Elevated blood copper/zinc ratios in assaultive young males. Physiol Behavior 1997;49(1):327-329. Research spanning a period of 20 years has revealed abnormal trace metal concentrations in violence prone young males 3-20 years of age. This study tested the validity of the observation that young assaultive males have elevated blood copper/zinc levels when compared to those with no history of assaultive behavior.

Schmidt K, et al.: Clinical ecology treatment approach for juvenile offenders. J Behav Ecology:Biosocial 1981:2(1). It was found through this study that hair copper levels of young males classified as delinquent, was found to be at a higher level than lab norms.

Lonsdale D, Schamberger R: Red cell transketolase as an indicator of nutritional deficiency. Am J Clin Nutr 1980;33(2):205-211. In a study of patients with biochemical evidence of thiamine deficiency related to junk food diets, the adolescents especially were found to be impulsive, irritable, aggressive and angered easily.

Schrauzer GN, Shrestha KP: Lithium in drinking water and the incidences of crimes, suicides and arrests related to drug addictions. Biol Trace E.em Res 1990;25(2):105-113. Data collected from 27 counties in Texas, when adjusted for population density, show that the incidence of homicide, suicide and rape were significantly high in areas where the drinking water contained little or no lithium. Results of this study suggest that low level doses of lithium have a beneficial effect on human behavior.

[actslikeacarrot]

35. so you KNOW he has physically assaulted...

...his girlfriend yet you didn't call the police? Do it next time, show him that actions have consequences. You may just save his, and her life!

[marions ghost]

38. The confused girl who is putting up with this

also needs help to get out of it. SHE needs to show him she will not be his punching bag.

[actslikeacarrot]

39. i think if the...

...young man was arrested, maybe she would see that its not her fault, and she dosent deserve the abuse?

[marions ghost]

40. The disturbing thing is

why she thinks for a minute that she deserves abuse. Societal controls on him should not have to prove that to her. This girl has low self-esteem, maybe BPD (borderline personality). It is not normal for anyone to put up with being hit and then go back for more.

I once had a university student with this problem--she tolerated abuse and the seeds for that were sown in her own family & environment. Very weak sense of boundaries. She ended up being killed.

I advocate girls being actively engaged in this debate about relationship abuse --being taught exactly what is OK and what is not--at a young age. Girls need to be empowered--not merely protected by others.

[loose wheel]

41. If I found out my son had hit a girl...

He better be more afraid of me than the cops. In fact, it would go easier on him if he just went to the nearest cop and handed himself over. There are some things for which no tolerance is warranted and that is certainly one.

He doesn't respect you or anyone else, because he has no reason to do so. Some kids can be reasoned with, and they should be reasoned with, but the parent has to be the authority, not the friend.

Your stepson sounds strong willed. How did his mom and grandma deal with him, was he much the same when younger? Throw tantrums? Ignore adults? Destroy things? Strong-willed children are very often extremely intelligent.