Please REC if you trust our President to do the right thing

[MannyGoldstein]

against US citizens, without judicial meddling!



And you trust the next Republican President to do the right thing, too!

Regards,

Third-Way Manny

[aquart]

1. But what about the next president?

Watch your precedents.

[Purveyor]

2. Should have made this a poll so all could check in...yea or nay. eom

[XemaSab]

3. :crickets:

n/t

[lunasun]

4. Scary - For future use by anyone who becomes POTUS!!

[Tx4obama]

5. You set up your question so that no one will rec your post. It should have been a POLL with options.

But you probably already know that.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. why won't people rec it?

Seems like the crux of the issue?

[Tx4obama]

8. Please don't play dumb. YOU know that folks trust Pres Obama but not some unnamed GOPer. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

9. But didn't the President take successors into account? nt

[LittleBlue]

29. Rest assured they will be legal, ethical and wise

Jay Carney says so

[MannyGoldstein]

32. And won't make Fox News say mean things.

Jay forgot that part.

[lunasun]

33. NDAA also?

[woo me with science]

25. Is he going to take it back when his term is over?!

I did not know that was his secret plan!

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

13. It is the very meat of the issue.

Some will wave their flags and thump their chests, but when it comes time to actually sign their name to something inherently sinister most won't go that far. What can be taken to extremes by the next POTUS, either D or R, should make us all wary of putting our signature to it lest we become victims of it.

So which is worse: blind obedience or willful indolence?

[Ian Iam]

30. Seems like a

to me.

[abelenkpe]

6. Damn

Thought this would say trust the president and congress to do the right thing and end tax incentives and subsidies that encourage jobs to be off shored.

O well. Guess my industry is fucked.

Unemployment will leave me more time to be enraged over drones. Altho for the record I was against drone strikes before they targeted Americans.

[Bonobo]

10. The only cogent argument I have heard on this came from, unsurprisingly, the Magistrate.

His point is that anyone trustworthy enough can be trusted to NOT abuse this and anyone untrustworthy enough to abuse it would do so with or without this precedent established by Obama.

I guess it makes sense but it is damned cynical in its recognition of how little influence anyone has --including the Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

[Egalitarian Thug]

24. I read that and was quite surprised,

I didn't think the Magistrate was flexible enough to stretch that far anymore.

[HooptieWagon]

11. I can't REC...

I trust the current POTUS to want to make the right call, but I can't guarantee he won't make a mistake or act on bad advice.
I can with confidence say there will be a POTUS at some unknown date in the future who will abuse that power.

[coalition_unwilling]

38. Due Process is so 20th Century - n/t

[Nye Bevan]

12. Wait..... we won't always have an intelligent, thoughtful President?

Well that certainly complicates things.

[fadedrose]

14. I almost always rec your posts,

but I dunno 'bout this time.

Give me a year or so to think it over...maybe 2.

[joelz]

15. I don't think so

Very hard to trust a person who is judge,jury and executioner and uses secrete laws the citizens are not allowed to see

[Joe Shlabotnik]

16. I miss the un-rec feature.

Oops, thought this was Meta.

[renegade000]

17. i rec-ed for lols

[leftstreet]

19. Can't do it n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

20. Mitt Romney might have gained these powers. These powers must be eliminated.

And see my post #33 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022318444#post33

[SmileyRose]

21. an untrustworthy POTUS won't care about what I think

[bigwillq]

22. unrec (nt)

[BuelahWitch]

23. Dear Third-Way Manny

I regret to inform you that I cannot REC your most patriotic thread, due to a computer malfunction. At times like these, I like to salute the flag and hit alt-USA on my computer keyboard, which triggers a rousing rendition of Yankee Doodle. But tonight, instead of that inspiring music, the combination of alt-USA gave me "Take the Money and Run." Manny, I am in tears becauseI fear my sound card has doodled it's last Yankee. Therefore I am too distraught to REC your thread.

Cordially Yours,

True-blue Buelah

[woo me with science]

26. I am working on blind trust. Really, I am.

Unfortunately, I keep opening my eyes.

[Oilwellian]

27. I've had this song running through my head today

[lunasun]

34. I love me some Leon!!

The book tells a tale too

[cbrer]

28. I stopped trusting politicians a long time ago.

The only trust I have for them is that they'll be faithful to their major benefactors, and say or do almost anything to get elected.

Not only that, but the phrase "right thing" is open to interpretation in at least a dozen different ways. And "without judicial meddling"? History has proven what happens in situations of absolute authority.

Or is the OP a thinly veiled joke?

[xchrom]

31. KICKETY. NT

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. Sometimes it's about trust, sometimes it's not

Who can tell with ole Manny?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2318720

The basic point is, of course, correct. In the same way Bush and Cheney used FDR's military tribunal executive order and Ex Part Quirin to justify future offenses, a future GOP President could use the current drone policies horribly. (We should remember that the worst Bush Administration offenses against habeas, and the current drone policy, are all justified on the basis of Quirin, which was Manny's hero's baby! But don't worry, because Manny trusted FDR - as he himself admits - and presumably trusts that um...subsequent GOP Presidents would also, er, um, er...or something,).

It's why it should never be about trust, but about review and checks and balances, now as then. Trust is such a tenuous thing. I'm glad Manny has realized this between two days ago and today.

[coalition_unwilling]

39. If the concept of a President Santorum and\or President Palin doesn't scare

the living shit out of anyone with half a grain of sense reading this board, then we might as well hang it up and go home.

Oh wait, extrapolating from the responses of the Obama-bots, half the people reading this board would be just fine with President Santorum using drones to execute American citizens extra-judicially. OK. Time to hang it up.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. I'm not surte how that's a response to my post

but by all means, continue ranting away.

[coalition_unwilling]

47. I intended it to validate and comment upon your post to which

it was posted in response.

Maybe it didn't come through as I intended.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Trust is a spectrum.

In the case of say, FDR or Elizabeth Warren, if there's an issue where we disagree, or an event where they make a mistake, I trust that their intentions are good because neither one of them ever engaged in behavior that could only be explained by malice or depraved indifference towards the 99%.

On the other hand, when a politician shills "free" trade agreements, corporate financial deregulation, major cuts to the social safety net, and hyperlow taxation of the wealthiest, my trust in that person is blown. These things can only be explained by malice, depraved indifference, or staggering stupidity.

And there are some things, like the Executive hiding from the Judiciary, that I would never trust anyone to do. Our Founders were pretty smart about these things.

BTW, I assume that you know that Third-Way Manny is a spoof.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. It's pretty clear

The other day you trusted FDR. Today, you question those who say they trust Obama, and you do so at least in part on the basis of potential misuse of executive power by future (GOP) administrations. What's ironic, of course, is that for the trusted FDR executive order and court ruling, we have an ACTUAL horrendous use of the executive power by a future GOP administration (Bush 2 on Ex Parte Quirin and military tribunals), which didn't seem to bother you as much as the potential future horrendous use of the drone policy! More ironic still is that the very white paper you find so objectionable itself is based on the very trusted FDR policy! So, when you say you trust FDR, are you taking into account future misuse of his policy or not?

Needless to say, none of this has anything to do with whether Third Way Manny is a spoof, unless you are dishonestly claiming that you were in spoof character when claiming to trust FDR two days ago?

[Autumn]

36. I don't trust Obama with this and I don't trust Future President

Whoever The Fuck It Is to do the right thing with this. Kick, cause I sure as hell won't rec.

[Logical]

37. -1 from me

[kpete]

41. huh?

[Zorra]

42. Premeditated murder in the name of profit is always justifiable.

As is any collateral killing that accompanies premeditated murder in the name of profit. It's regrettable, but it's a necessary sacrifice for furthering the goals of the 1% globalist economic elite.

Profit at any cost.

As always,

struggling2BSu

[NCTraveler]

43. I gave it a rec.....

Because you are soft and fuzzy. You speak in such gentle terms. There is no way someone with such common sense and command of the issues would ever hurt me.

Thanks Third-Way-Manny

[kudzu22]

46. This one sure. The next one?

Not so much. Whenever you give new power to the President, just say the following to yourself three times:

"President George P. Bush"