During hunt for gunman, LAPD shoot newspaper delivery women

[Liberal_in_LA]

During the manhunt for former Los Angeles Police Department officer Christopher Dorner Thursday, Los Angeles and Torrance police were involved in two shootings in Torrance. In a multi-page online manifesto, Dorner implicated himself in the recent fatal shootings of an Irvine couple as well as two shootings Thursday morning targeting police officials. Police are in the process of tracking down Dorner, who is apparently on a killing rampage aimed at law enforcement, and the shootings today occurred when police came across vehicles similar to that of the suspect.

The first officer-involved shooting happened at about 5:20 a.m. in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance, according to the L.A. Times. Two women delivering newspapers in a truck were struck by gunfire by L.A. police detectives from the Hollywood division. One woman was shot in the hand and the other in the back, Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated, told the Times. Both victims were transported to a hospital.

The Times describes the crime scene: "After the shooting, the blue pickup was riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lay in the street alongside."

The second incident occurred at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street about 5:45 a.m. and involved Torrance police. No injuries were reported.

Officials say both vehicles matched the description of the suspect vehicle. Police have confirmed that the occupants of the vehicles are not related to the Dorner case. LAPD Chief Charlie Beck said of the first shooting during today's news conference, "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers," according to City News Service. Beck added that the vehicle was being driven "in the area of one of our primary protection details, one of the people that was under the most serious level of threat." He continued, "The LAPD officers assigned observed a vehicle matching the suspect's vehicle driving down the street with the lights turned out." And they opened fire on the vehicle.

http://laist.com/2013/02/07/police_shoot_motorists_mistaken_for_dorner.php

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. No words.

[RandiFan1290]

2. Rabid fucking dogs

I hope someone gets the dashcam footage of this attack on innocent people.

[Scootaloo]

71. Why? Cops are never convicted

And hey! The bad guy is targeting cops. That means the pigs are entitled to go hog-wild.

Someday I hope I'll be able to tell the difference between the cops and the guys they're supposed to be protecting us from.

[City Lights]

3. Unreal.

Just fucking unreal.

[Blue_In_AK]

4. This is just crazy.

[HereSince1628]

49. No, it is not crazy, it's recklessness and certainly unprofessional

for the police to shoot at a target they can't positively identify.

Their interest in personal safety placed innocent civilians in risk of their lives.

The LA media referred to it as evidence of how tightly wound up the police were.

Which to me sounds uncomfortably close to calling the victims "collateral damage".


Good guys with guns are certainly the answer to something, but it isn't public safety.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

5. What the hell is going on in LA?

The LAPD has been out of control for decades....

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. if you own a truck, don't drive it today

[Sekhmets Daughter]

10. You're not kidding....

I live on the other coast...in FL, and while I can't say we never have abusive cops here, it does seem that the LAPD has been running amok for a long, long time.

[malaise]

48. Looks that way

Damn!!

[libdem4life]

11. ...and the LA County Sheriff. Way out of control.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

13. Why can't anyone get a handle on the problem?

Is crime that much of a problem that you need the Brown Shirts running the streets?

[libdem4life]

20. The reasons and causes for the interchange of power, money, drugs, etc. is so

in the dark/underground that it is woven within the very fabric of those who could and should help, but even those who are not involved, have strict beyond belief codes of honor...often that include danger to families. Similar to those that, in another well-known scenario, protected Jerry Sandusky for years.

Don't ask, Don't tell.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

27. The Mafia's Omerta...

or the Blue Wall of Silence (NYPD)... all the same...gangsters rely on the silence of their cohorts. Another sign of our decay as a society.

[libdem4life]

28. Yes, the silence and participation tend to feed each other and it becomes difficult to

determine who is the gangster. But to be sure, the taxpayer pays for all of it.

[robinlynne]

36. There is an ex navy seal, who was fired from the LAPD. he vowed to kill the 8 policemen and their

families, who were invioved in his firing. he shot two family members, a young engaged couple. The girl's father was the intended target, i.e. killing the famlies of the people he is angry with to hurt the father.. He is very trained. and very very armed.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

38. Yes, I know that part of it....

(except I read he was a naval reservist) I was referring to the 'shoot first, ask questions later' attitude that resulted in the shooting of two newspaper delivery women

[robinlynne]

41. I know. Someone said what is going on in LA? This is the big story on the news here this week.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

42. Yes, but the origninal OP was

about the "mistaken' identity shootings.

It's big news everywhere and certainly a tragedy for the families of Dorner's victims. But it does seem that the LAPD and LA Sheriff's Office are always in the news in ways that don't reflect terribly well on those departments.

[robinlynne]

44. gotcha.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

45. I frequently get lost in a thread myself...

[xtraxritical]

57. And the taxpayers of the City of LosAngeles will be on the hook for millions in damage awards.

At best the cops doing the shooting might get suspended w/o pay for a few months.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

58. Tragic...in so many ways.

The city could better spend that money on so many other things.

[Iggo]

7. Yay, Cops!

They're the best!

[WinkyDink]

8. A drone would never make this error.

*SNERK*

[Whisp]

12. I took it quite a different way.

shit happens all the time, even with the cops. there are no guarantees for anything, anywhere.

[Logical]

21. But they should never be a cop again. Not a minor error! n-t

[WinkyDink]

30. This was quite the Keystone Kops escapade. And it WILL occur with drones.

[Whisp]

34. does this mean we should take all the cops off the streets

because their effectiveness is not 100% all the time and sometimes by standers get killed?

[libdem4life]

53. Please. This is not the thread for drama kings/queens or for the argument of

reduction to the absurd.

[Whisp]

66. typical answer when you are uncomfortable with the question. :) n/t

[libdem4life]

70. It wasn't a question...it was rhetoric...absurd...not conversation for thinking folk.

And I wasn't uncomfortable about it at all. Just called it as I saw it

Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity&quot is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial,[1][2] or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

[Whisp]

78. and I think it's absurd that you would react this way.

but I know why, so I guess this ends our little talkie.

[libdem4life]

79. OK...difference of opinion. Didn't mean it so...just the LAPD cop thing has me really upset.

[TheMadMonk]

95. And I think it ridiculous that people aren't called out for being dicks...

...more often and more colourfully.

The point being argued here is that cops, without warning opened fire on total innocents.

It's fucking ridiculous and INSULTING to ram absurd conclusions into the mouths of others.

Don't care how wound up they are. Don't care if they are shitting their pants at the thought that one of their own is coming after them and their families. If they can't even give lip service to proper procedure then let them bunker themselves in their fucking homes and play by Castle Doctrine rules there, not out in the fucking street.

THIS PERSON IS NOT A MAJOR DANGER TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. The police most certainly are if this is how they react to threats specifically directed against them.

They IDENTIFY the target and make damned sure it's the intended.

They IDENTIFY themselves, and give the target a fair opportunity to surrender.

They shoot, ONLY WHEN THEY HAVE NO OTHER FUCKING CHOICE.

[xtraxritical]

60. We would all be safer. All cops care about is "revenue" and thier own saftey.

[Whisp]

67. really, we would all be safer without a police force?

and every one of them is in it only for the money and their own safety.

Thank you so much for showing what you did.

I just had to repeat that to myself for another laugh and in case you delete that ridiculous statement, it will be here.

[rhett o rick]

92. Yes shit happens, but when innocents die, the shit should hit the fan. nm

[libdem4life]

9. Tragically...mistaken identity...guilty and executed by pickup truck color.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

15. The vehicle wasn't even the right color. His is gray not blue.

Executed may be a bit over the top, so far as I know none of the victims have died. Much to the relief of the LAPD. They're going to have a difficult enough time trying to sweep this one under the rug.

[libdem4life]

24. Thankfully...truly, I can't but skim this information. There will be a tipping point, someday.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

32. When it comes to the LAPD they don't care about tipping points.

They've been doing this sort of stuff for decades now. People are outraged, rightly so. Yet they still keep on making the same mistakes over and over again.

[libdem4life]

46. True.I don't think many are mistakes. Its the war culture on the home front...Because We Can

Many in the law enforcement community are former soldiers and veterans of war, and this is how we treat other nation's civilians when we "think" there is a "terrorist" in the house or mud hut. Adrenelin surging, packing heat, We're Number One and all.

Same with the drone/video game bomber...when we "think" there is a "terrorist" down there somewhere...poof.

That's when it's Them, not Us.

Saw a thread that said since 1960, more US citizen's lives have been ended by American guns than soldiers by our participation in the World Wars.

Sobering.

[GiaGiovanni]

14. Actually the pickup truck the two women were in was a Toyota Tacoma, not a Nissan Titan

The cops got that wrong in their panic.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

18. Wrong make. Wrong color. No ski rack. No match on the plates.

Two women not one man.

They got nothing right. Not one single item.

Thanks, I saw the pic of the vehicle they shot up, but don't know my makes and models well enough to catch that.

[GiaGiovanni]

31. And the women were elderly Asian women

who couldn't possibly be mistaken for a 6 foot 270-pound African American male.

They didn't bother to look. They panicked and they shot repeatedly.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

They're going to have a hard time validating shooting two elderly women in a vehicle that doesn't match the description of the suspects. The "it sorta looked like the right vehicle and they were scared" defense isn't going to work here.

This isn't their usual screw up either. The suspect they were after has gained national media attention. Which means so will this shooting. The PR rep for the LAPD is eating antacids like candy today.

[GiaGiovanni]

47. They always get out of this stuff, though

I wonder how much clout the Asian community will have in fighting LAPD. The officers certainly can't argue that they thought two elderly Asian women looked like a 6 foot, 270 pound African American male.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

59. It's going to depend on how the victims persue the matter.

If I were the LAPD reps - which thankfully I'm not - I'd try throwing gobs of money at the victims right from the start. Before they have a chance to tell their story preferably.

They're going to have to pay out the nose anyway for their insane actions. Couple that with this not being the only mistaken identity shooting in this manhunt, which is begging the question what kind of orders the patrol officers had been given, and their safest actions would be to get the victims to agree to cash settlements and gag orders. I'm not sure if that's even legal, but legalities don't usually stand in the way if the LAPD much.

The best thing for the public would be for the victims to speak out and pursue the issue, and for these shootings to become the latest MSM darling for awhile. The LAPD and their policy needs some serious disinfecting via sunlight.

The Asian community does have quite a bit of clout. I don't doubt they'll back these women as the victims of poor policy and police work by the LAPD. The problem is the LAPD has tactics with which they deal with community outrage. Which often means sweeps in neighborhoods and general oppressive tactics in minority communities. I think without national media coverage not much will change.

[Lochloosa]

16. DWPUT

Driving while Pickup Truck.

[obamanut2012]

17. Wrong color, make, and model of truck

This is why so many cops scare me.

[Logical]

19. Let me predict, this shooting will be ruled "justified". Idiot cops!

[GiaGiovanni]

33. Depends on how much clout the Asian community has in LA

The women were elderly and Asian.

[Poll_Blind]

22. "Death by sorta, kinda similar car." Like shooting a Hellfire at a "tall person" in an...

...attempt to get bin-Laden.

That kind of lax reasoning and deadly force are a murderous combination.

PB

[RedCappedBandit]

23. Yeah, but their job is hard!

Or some crap...

[libertyandjustice24]

25. unbelievable

[Incitatus]

26. Yeah, their days of delivering newspapers for a living may soon be over.

Another costly fuck up by the LAPD

[noiretextatique]

35. they will probably sue and win

and the taxpayers' will bear the cost of this debacle.
they opened fire on the truck without verifying that it was the right truck...unbelievable!

[RebelOne]

54. I sure hope they win if they sue.

I am sure they have been besieged by lawyers that want to take on the case.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. And, the days of delivering newspapers for a living may be in store for Dirty Harry and Rambo.

[NutmegYankee]

96. I doubt it.

Cops almost never get punished for epic screw ups like this. The investigation, like all of them, will find the shooting "justified" and the victims will have to sue the city since the cops have qualified immunity.

[frylock]

29. fuck tha police

[Th1onein]

39. I second that, Frylock. eom

[Loup Garou]

37. Appears that the LAPD has ruled out taking Dorner alive.

[starroute]

65. I think you just made the sharpest observation in this thread

It's not that the cops are panicky and shooting wildly. It's that they don't want to take Dorner alive and give him a fair trial and all that legal shit. They want him dead, they want to kill him themselves -- and they're prepared to shoot at anything that moves in pursuit of that objective.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. One dude challenges their authority, and they react like wounded animals?

I expected better from professionals. Yeah, it's bad, yeah they are in danger, so, for a police officer, what's new, right?

They should be better than this.

[Mr.Bill]

51. LAPD is a gang.

Expect them to act as such when they are under attack. Or when they're not.

[WillyT]

52. WTF !!!

& Rec !!!

[Glassunion]

55. A truck!!! HFS!!! Open fire!!!

Officer 1 - What are we looking for?
Officer 2 - Black guy in a gray Nissan truck.
Officer 1 - Is that a truck?
Officer 2 - OMG!!! A TRUCK!!!
Officer 1 - OH NOES!!!
Officer 2 - HOLY SHIT!!!! Mitosis!!! Now there is two black guys!!!
Officer 1 - Holy Chromatophores Batman!!!! The truck changed color too!!!
Officer 2 - Oh Sequential hermaphroditism!!! Now they are women!!!
Officer 1 - OMG!!!! Kill it!!! Kill it with Fire!!!!!


This is why I fear driving through some neighborhoods after dark.

[Victor_c3]

77. Makes me think about when I was in Iraq

we'd get radio calls all the time alerting us to a possible car bomb with a description as vague as "black BMW 3 series". I hated those calls. What did my command want me to do whenever I saw a black BMW 3 series in Iraq (they were all over the place where I was in 2004, it seemed like every 4th car could fit the "black BMW 3 series" description)? I always was a smart-ass and radiod back and asked if they wanted me to destroy all of the BMW 3 series cars that I saw. Of course the answer was no.

Don't even bother me with this stuff. I just want to go home was all that I was thinking.

[Glassunion]

82. Holy crap...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2292409

I gotta sell my car.

[Victor_c3]

85. yeah, better safe than sorry

or at least stay away from driving it in Iraq.

Sorry, when I get to drinking I get to thinking about the "good ol' days" of when I was in Iraq. Actually, I even think about them when I'm not drinking, but that is another topic altogether.

[Glassunion]

89. Got about 110k miles on it... I'm about due to trade it in.

[libdem4life]

56. Over the decades, before Social Media, this would not have made any news. They have shot people for

using cell phones, and if I recall correctly, made it illegal to video tape an officer.

The white/more affluent public is getting just an inkling of what they pay for that goes on in their name and for their "protection" here and overseas.

[Magleetis]

61. Oops, sorry

We thought you were someone else.

[kudzu22]

62. And these are the same guys who show up to protect you when you call 9-1-1

I feel safe, don't you?

[Poll_Blind]

63. PICTURE---> Wildly bullet-riddled newspaper delivery truck (PIC)

PB

[KurtNYC]

75. They survived? I see 4 head shots for the driver and about 7 for the passenger.

They must have ducked quickly and perhaps the bed of the truck is full of newspapers (?)

[Glassunion]

84. Holy crap! I count 27, not including the ones that flattened both tires on the driver's side.

[Blue_Tires]

94. If the shooters don't lose their badges immediately

The LAPD is only giving more credence to everything in the manifesto...

[Rex]

64. Now it is official, LA is a battleground.

No one is safe from the assailant or the cops (if you happen to be profiled via vehicle).

To Protect and Serve?

One can only hope that wasn't policy.

Law and Order?

[Demo_Chris]

68. What the hell?

[damnedifIknow]

69. Keep hiring these mental giants.

[MrScorpio]

72. Maybe Dorner's point about the police being out of control is a valid one nt

Too bad that he had to make that point the way he did, if he is the guy who shot down those other cops.

[coalition_unwilling]

73. I'd feel more sympathy for the LAPD if it had shown more sympathy for Occupy Los Angeles, instead

of brutalizing Occupiers repeatedly and with malice aforethought.

As it is, I view the LAPD as just another LA gang, one that operates under color of authority but really doesn't do much any longer to protect or serve the 99%, b/c it is too involved in protecting and serving the 1%.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. Ya know, not EVERY vehicle had automatic headlights....

On some, you actually have to turn them on.

Then again, since this was a delivery vehicle they might be driving with the lights out to keep from disturbing the neighborhood. I know I used to turn off my headlights before I backed into the garage to keep them from shining into the windows of the house across the street.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

76. I'm watching KTLA Live feed and they showed a segment dealing with

this aspect of the story. Did anyone else see the number of times those ladies' truck was hit by cops bullets?

Holy shit!

http://ktla.com/live/#axzz2KFbx75n5

[Spirochete]

80. I guess if they shoot enough people,

eventually they'll get around to the right ones. Geez, why do they hire these people? They could get humans almost as cheap...

[Junkdrawer]

83. But you can't get humans to protect wealthy interests over their own kind...

Seriously, I think this is why autonomous robotic killing machines will be the wave of the future.

[Smilo]

81. Wow - so they just fire at any vehicle

that resembles the one they are after i.e. any pickup truck with four wheels.

Good luck citizens of LA - you are going to need it.

[Poll_Blind]

86. They also shot at a second truck (in a SECOND incident) after ramming it:

HERE

Also thinking it was Dorner's truck.

PB

[rocktivity]

87. They were delivering newspapers with their lights off at five in the morning?

In that line of work, it's particularly important that you can see where you're going -- not bloody likely.

And if they thought it was too dangerous to pull it over without backup, why not set up a perimiter?


rocktivity

[Dustlawyer]

88. The scariest thing is that the 2 officers that shot up the newspaper ladies had both been

promoted to Detective and passed the test for Detective!

[bvar22]

90. Now THERE is a need for SERIOUS Gun Control!

I live in a rural area where ALL houses have weapons,
and you had better assume that all vehicles contain some sort of gun,
and, yet, I never feel threatened.

But when I'm in an area where Police are brandishing their weapons,
it scares the jebus out of me.

[Festivito]

91. CNN has no coverage of this car, but, the shooters car if found burned.

They're searching the car to see if there is a body inside.

[liberal_at_heart]

93. so they're just going to shoot up every vehicle that has the same description?

They wouldn't do that if the ex-cop wasn't targeting cops.

[rhett o rick]

98. OH hell no.

They wont limit themselves like that. This guy's truck didnt have the same description.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2346603

[Logical]

97. And these idiots will keep there job! N-t