I hope to dog they capture Christopher Jordan Dorner alive

[Taverner]

He has a story to tell - and this is LA's worst kept secret

Things only got WORSE after Rampart

The LAPD is the most corrupt LEA in the country

Why? They have the best PR department in the world - ALL of Hollywood!

If a movie doesn't make the LAPD look good, they deny filming permits. Period.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Knowing the LAPD and their buddies in other departments

They will try to kill him before he spills the beans.

[Taverner]

2. Yes. They already shot two innocent women on sight, just because they drove the same car

How does someone mistake two women for one 300 lb male?

That would be someone who has something they very desperately, need to hide

[jsr]

4. Not even the same make.

And they were elderly Asian females.

[Taverner]

5. Fuckall.....

[coalition_unwilling]

132. Well, when you're all tweaked out and hopped up on the meth and coke

you've confiscated from other LA gangs, you too might confuse two elderly Asian females for one 270-lb. man.

in case it's needed

[Cali_Democrat]

7. Indeed. n/t

[Iggo]

97. Yay, Cops!

They're the best!

[JI7]

3. not sure he has much to say, if he did, why not reveal that ?

why kill innocent people instead ?

and coming from him it would just lose credibility even if he might be right.

[Taverner]

8. Because he is a man without a voice

I am not excusing what he did

But the real story is about the LAPD, not this guy

What is the LAPD hiding, and why?

[JI7]

16. the guy lost any credibility he might have had

and the story is about him. he is out there killing innocent people. the first 2 people he killed. the 28 year old daughter of an lapd officer and her 27 year old fiance.

[Taverner]

34. Does. Not. Matter.

Just because you are an asshole, doesn't make your message any less important.

[JI7]

43. he isn't just an asshole, he is a fucking murderer

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

154. Wow.

You've really hit rock bottom.

[JI7]

38. it's not secret that the LAPD is fucked up with fucked up people

[HangOnKids]

48. The Women Were NOT Killed n/t

[Taverner]

76. But they were shot. By the LAPD. Should we ignore that?

[HangOnKids]

78. Fuck No!

I was just clarifying that they were not killed. The random shooting of innocent civilians is not to be ignored.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

77. here's one way to think about it

This guy may have a real and legitimate beef with the LAPD--he could possibly be instrumental in making a case against several corrupt cops. But even if he has legitimate points about the LAPD, he's destroyed his case by killing, not just police, but innocents who happen to be related to police. This guy is going to end up dead very soon; I suspect he knows that. Still, in light of this, someone should be taking (another) very hard look at the LAPD.

[Taverner]

117. But it doesn't have to be that way

Trust but verify?

How about doubt, but verify?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

124. I think I'm on your side on this one

My point, however poorly I made it, was that although this guy has damaged his credibility beyond repair, and he's almost certainly a walking dead man, the LAPD should be looked at very closely. Fire Walk With Me posted the full, unedited version of his manifesto. It's very long--I've been reading it for the past 30 minutes and I'm only 2/3 of the way through. But this guy is no dummy, and based on what I've read so far, I'm guessing he has the police very nervous, about their immediate safety and about their potential legal troubles. But, I'd have to say that advantage goes to LAPD being able to successfully cover up their own misdeeds--all they have to do is mention that the guy is a crazed killer. They're right. It doesn't make them innocents, but it will probably make their little corruption problem go away, since his crimes are worse than theirs.

[Taverner]

131. Agreed - our emotions get the best of us sometimes

And with this kind of presence, it's not hard to lose sight of that...

[2pooped2pop]

186. Have you seen the manifesto?

He has lots to say and says it fairly well.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. It's not looking good for him to survive the LAPD manhunt.

Considering how they've been shooting at pretty much anything they thought might be him today, I'm pretty sure they're planning on him being dead real fast after they find him.

[Taverner]

10. He should drive to San Jose, and turn himself in

SJPD has something that no other LEA has - cameras EVERYWHERE

There's no way they could cover up anything there

[Lone_Star_Dem]

27. The thing is he really wants his pound of flesh before he's caught.

Which doesn't bode well for him turning himself in. He's a very angry and irrational man right now out to kill as many people as he can before they kill him. It's a horrible situation.

[Taverner]

37. Yes - I would agree he is a narcisist

But his message is his message

Don't kill the messenger - ignore him

But pay attention to the message

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. No they won't

Notice the difference between PDs...who opened fire and who did not.

[Taverner]

12. Very true

If I were him I would hightail it up to NorCal, go to the SJPD HQ and turn himself in

Not that they would be sympathetic, but they have cameras EVERYWHERE, and everybody knows it.

If he "fell down the stairs", they would have that on camera

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Or even SDPD.

I heard four professionally handled hot stops. Every time they found wrong person, they let them go immediately.

Was it scary? Yup...but everybody survived.

My theory...this will end in the San Bernardino National forest or he ditched the truck and is out of area. His manifesto talked of a man already dead...willing to go to war.

[Taverner]

28. There were studies done a few years ago

Correlating surveillance cameras and corruption

The more cameras in a an HQ, the less corruption

Jeremy Bentham was right in this regard...

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Well, here is a little secret.

No LAPD cop is POST certified...instead they are self insured. So technically a lateral transfer from LAPD needs to go to the academy to get certified in the state. And any lateral from other agencies needs to go through their academy.

They also do not play well with others.

I read the manifesto and was all but even a smidgen surprised.

On edit, this does not change the fact of the mass murders.

[Taverner]

39. +100 "I read the manifesto and was all but even a smidgen surprised. "

[Logical]

173. You are 100% correct! n-t

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. The worship of this asshole on DU is disgusting nt

[Taverner]

14. Worship, no. He's an asshole for killing innocent people.

But even scoundrels can be messengers...and something provoked him to this

Open your eyes

[JI7]

18. there is no excuse for what he did, he is not a victim, why didn't the fucker come out

with what he had to say ?

[Taverner]

31. Because he was either an idiot, a narcissist or both

But his message is just as worthy of pursuit as if it came from any other person

[JI7]

60. it does matter just as it did with the fake Sandy Hook Dad but this case is many times worse

as this guy is a fucking muderer.

[Taverner]

66. Then why do you have a problem investigating both?

[JI7]

71. i never said i opposed investigating the LAPD, you are the one who said this guy was not important

and tried to use the entire situation to make it about the LAPD corruption and make it seem like what this guy is doing wasn't so bad.

[farminator3000]

198. i'm really thinking its the two concussions he got playing football- a good part anyway

brain damage, he seems almost 'normal' except for the murdering thing.

almost like, if he'd talked to someone about it, they could have said 'do something else dramatic not involving death and cops'

too bad he didn't know the black guy who dressed in the KKK robes in downtown Philly recently...

the concussions though...Junior Seau (RIP) and the other dude that shot his GF...and all the other NFL guys suffering from brain damage

i mean, Ray Lewis sure wouldn't be a model gun owner...

[2pooped2pop]

187. He's been trying.

It looks like he tried to report a female officer for kicking a downed and handcuffed prisoner in the face and chest.

He was the one fired and they all lied on him.

He went into the services where he could not advance anymore because of that firing.

The union guy who was supposed to represent him was an ex chief of police who was all about protecting the department, not him. That's who's daughter and fiance were killed.

I think when the foia requests come back that it will prove his story is true.

When you take away a mans everything, u take away his life. He has nothing left.

Now, he wants to just out them all and I can't really blame him.

We will be seeing a lot more of this kind of shit. The people out here can't survive any longer. Hopelessness and depression will cause more of this. While he may not be so much effected by the general state of the union as the people I mention, his symptoms, his reactions, are the same.

I'm not saying he is right in what he has decided. I'm just saying it's not that unpredictable.

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. Nice try at a save. Your previous messages

portray your crush on a guy who killed innocent people.

If he had "something to say," he could grow a pair of balls and whistleblow like other courageous people.

[Taverner]

24. You're not worth it. If you want an explanation, look upthread

Otherwise, stop being a troll

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. You're holding a "Go Dorner Go" sign but I'M a troll?

Um, yeah. Whatever, dude. I sure hope you don't get in the way of your heroes' valiant escape from justice.

[Taverner]

41. Either you never read my posts, saw the name "Taverner" and decided to troll

Or you are RWinger who is trying, by any means necessary, to destroy MY credibility.

You wouldn't be an LAPD cop would ya?

[Dreamer Tatum]

49. Your credibility died by your own hand

You are tacitly cheering on and lending credence to a cold-blooded murderer because he has negative opinions about the LAPD.

You are a pathetic person.

[Whisp]

107. hold on there, I don't see any Go Dorner Go

what you say is over the top disgusting and you owe Tav an apology. wtf??

[coalition_unwilling]

203. I alerted on that post but a jury of DU voted 6-0 to let DreamerTatum's

slander stand. Go figure.

[2pooped2pop]

191. He grew those balls already

It was whistle blowing on a fellow corrupt cop who was kicking a handcuffed and downed prisoner in the chest and face that started this whole thing.

So once again it was the whistle blower who was punished. He lost his job, she still has hers.

He tried the legal route.

Not saying his choice is good, just saying it's not about balls. He has brass ones.

[FSogol]

19. Agreed. Very pathetic.

[Cali_Democrat]

26. People here are worshiping him?

Really? Who?

[Taverner]

42. Nobody - but this is Fox News' meme tonight

And they are going with it

[Junkdrawer]

29. You do understand that a flood of comments like yours....

is what is making the Manifesto a Must Read.

If your goal is to bury the Manifesto, you're doing it wrong.

[Dreamer Tatum]

33. I could give a shit if anyone reads the manifesto.

HE KILLED PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM WHATSOEVER AT ALL.

I'm not sure why he isn't being given the same treatment as other recent murderers.

[Taverner]

44. "He Killed His Own People!!!!" hmmmm just thew that out there

Have fun

[Dreamer Tatum]

52. Did I say that? No.

You're grasping at straws, bro. Face it - you're defending a murderer because he hates COPS, MANNNNNNNNN.

[Taverner]

55. No - I think I hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head

Good day to you, sir!

[Dreamer Tatum]

56. No, you're realizing that you're cheering on a murderer

and rather than seeking an elegant way out, you're pointing at other people, like most
pathetic people do.

[louslobbs]

81. Where exactly is Taverner defending a murderer because he hates COPS? I'd just like to read it

coming from Taverner instead of it being posted as your story or conclusion based on your interpretation of what you have read or what you yourself have read into what someone else has written. Please cut and paste his exact words or refer me to his the post that you have drawn your conclusions from. Thanks.
Lou

[Dreamer Tatum]

84. His hatred of cops and his interest in someone who shoots cops

is puuuuuuurely coincidental.

Um, yeah.

[louslobbs]

95. Wow, you sure know how to create a good story for yourself. I asked for proof from Taverner and

not your continued and apparently biased interpretations and conclusions. Just provide Taverners own word where he actually says what you say he says, otherwise, these are just stories in your mind with no basis in fact.
Thanks,
Lou

[Taverner]

46. Yes - I am surprised THIS isn't the story

It should be

[Dreamer Tatum]

54. So that exonerates Dorner? nt

[justiceischeap]

116. No but it does give some credence to his claims that the LAPD is out of control. nt

[mythology]

158. Is the reverse also true?

Don't these murders indicate that there's some credence that he was fired legitimately rather than because the LAPD is entirely racist?

[zappaman]

161. Please don't bring logic into this discussion.

[justiceischeap]

185. Sure, you can make that argument

but then you have to wonder, if the incident that he spoke of, the kicking of the mentally ill person, is true, why did the female officer get promoted instead of fired?

[2pooped2pop]

195. I believe his story and I think once the foia's come back in

they will show it. I didn't see where he was claiming that it was a racist problem so much as just an out of control dominating police department that no longer functions for the people, or even cares about the people. One that lies to protect it's own. One that is abusing the very people it is paid to protect.

[Comrade Grumpy]

159. The two old Asian newspaper delivery ladies were fortunately only wounded.

And they missed the other guy they shot at in a separate incident.

[2pooped2pop]

192. not true

read it

[farminator3000]

199. "HE KILLED PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM WHATSOEVER AT ALL."- so does LAPD

and more often.

why aren't they?

[robinlynne]

141. I see no worship anywhere.

[2pooped2pop]

189. there is no worship

People are just saying that they can see he is not just some nutjob. He has been living with situational depression for some time, has been railroaded for trying to do what was right, and feels his life was forfeited long ago.

Yes, he has gone off the deep end but he didn't drive himself.

No one is applauding. Seeing what drove him is not the same as cheering him on.

[polly7]

190. +1. nt.

[NightOwwl]

13. His manifesto is not the ravings of a lunatic.

It alleges corruption, racism and physical abuse among other things. Says things have gotten worse since Rodney King.

The LAPD taking shots at two women in a truck that's not even the same make plays right into Dorner's accusations.

He knows too much. There is no way they will take him alive.

[Taverner]

17. +100

[bayareamike]

32. In one section of his manifesto

Dorner says that he once choked a fellow officer because the (white) officer dropped the n-bomb. This guy has a history of violently overreacting to things.

Was it offensive to use that word? Of course. Should he have choked the officer? No.

Was Christopher Dorner wronged by the LAPD? According to the manifesto, yes. Does it warrant the murder of several innocent people? Absolutely not.

Dorner deserves whatever punishment comes his way.

[JI7]

40. or maybe he made it up, look at what he is doing now, just like that BUnker Hostage taker Dykes

[louslobbs]

87. Other than the choking incident that you refer us to from Dorners own words oin his manifesto that

allegedly helped you to conclude that this guy has a "history" of overreacting to things, please refer me to the history so that I can read it for myself. Thanks
Lou

[bayareamike]

93. I based that conclusion both

on the choking incident as well as on an incident when he was younger that he himself cited in his manifesto.

During that incident, which occurred while he was in school, a girl (if I remember correctly) said something that offended him. In response, Dorner hit the girl. In his manifesto Dorner expresses resentment towards the fact that he was punished just as much as the girl by the teacher for hitting back, as he felt that he had the right to physically respond to a verbal attack.

Also, obviously, this conclusion is based on the killing spree he is now on. In response to losing his job, he kills people. Gross overreactions throughout his life, as reported by Dorner in his own manifesto.

[louslobbs]

103. Is this what you are referring to?

I was the only black kid in each of my elementary school

classes from first grade to seventh grade in junior high and any instances where I was

disciplined for fighting was in response to fellow students provoking common childhood

schoolyard fights, or calling me a nigger or other derogatory racial names. I grew up in

neighborhoods where blacks make up less than 1%. My first recollection of racism was in the

first grade at Norwalk Christian elementary school in Norwalk, CA. A fellow student, Jim

Armstrong if I can recall, called me a nigger on the playground. My response was swift and

non-lethal. I struck him fast and hard with a punch an kick. He cried and reported it to a

teacher. The teacher reported it to the principal. The principal swatted Jim for using a

derogatory word toward me. He then for some unknown reason swatted me for striking Jim in

response to him calling me a nigger. He stated as good Christians we are to turn the other

cheek as Jesus did. Problem is, I'm not a fucking Christian and that old book, made of

fiction and limited non-fiction, called the bible, never once stated Jesus was called a

nigger. How dare you swat me for standing up for my rights for demanding that I be treated

as a equal human being. That day I made a life decision that i will not tolerate racial

derogatory terms spoken to me.

Lou

[bayareamike]

106. Yep, I was mistaken when I said it was a girl.

Obviously he was just a kid back then, however the fact that he cites it in his manifesto implies that the incident holds a great deal of meaning for him.

I'm pointing out that in his manifesto he gives various examples of gross, violent overreactions to being offended. This killing spree is the latest overreaction.

[louslobbs]

125. And will be the last, hopefully without any more bloodshed. Not likely I'm afraid.

Thanks,
Lou

[Spryguy]

88. Uhhhh last I checked....

it was 1 innocent person and two other cops (the fiancee is LAPD from the pictures they posted). Maybe her own fiancee shot her by accident?

[bayareamike]

90. Being a cop doesn't make one guilty.

The daughter was innocent. The daughter's fiance, who until recently was a security guard at USC, was also innocent. Just because he was a (new) member of the LAPD doesn't mean he had anything to do with Dorner's problems.

Seriously, Dorner lost his job at the beginning of 2009 and the daughter's fiance just graduated from the police academy. That's at least two innocent victims.

[JDPriestly]

184. Thanks. All things in good measure.

Christopher Dorner's accusations about the LAPD should be investigated, but if he killed innocent people or shot innocent people, he should be apprehended and tried like any other person.

His claims that the LAPD is corrupt do not justify his murdering and injuring innocent people.

[farminator3000]

202. i agree.

His claims that the LAPD is corrupt do not justify his murdering and injuring innocent people.

but they may explain why he lost his mind.

not defending him, but like i said upthread, i sort of think if he'd told anyone about his plans, they might have suggested, instead
'steal a cop car, burn it and head for canada'

instead of the murder thing.

he should have watched LA Confidential. a lot.

[JDPriestly]

214. I read part of the appellate brief on his case.

He was accused of lying about whether a training officer who worked with him kicked a suspect. It is very possible that he was telling the truth.

He apparently killed the daughter of the lawyer who represented him in that case.

It is a tragic matter. He may have felt that after he was fired, and after his reputation was ruined by the (very possibly false) accusation that he lied, he could not get another job.

Being unable to get a job and feeling that your situation is due to injustice and unfairness could set off a fairly stable person.

I thought that police officers had to pass psychological tests. But his perception of unfairness in termination procedures could explain his behavior and his feelings.

This is yet another job-termination related catastrophe.

Guns are to blame, but so are our laws about employment and the lack of strong civilian oversight of our police forces.

[2pooped2pop]

196. most people would have left that out

but he came forward with it. That makes me more likely to believe him on the other story.

[farminator3000]

200. "Was it offensive to use that word? Of course. Should he have choked the officer? No." WRONG!

i think he should have. any cop who uses the word should be fired immediately.

i'd guess he felt the same when he did it, BEFORE he snapped.

[bayareamike]

216. Couldn't disagree more.

Fired? Yes. Assaulted? No.

Being insulted verbally doesn't give one the right to respond physically. That's childish.

As for his recent actions, Mr. Dorner had other options than to murder three people (so far). Why not bring his story to the attention of Anderson Cooper, whom he seems to admire so much?

This is a man who has chosen throughout his life to respond forcefully when his feelings are hurt. That's what it boils down to.

[farminator3000]

226. well,

Fired? Yes. Assaulted? No.

Being insulted verbally doesn't give one the right to respond physically. That's childish.

As for his recent actions, Mr. Dorner had other options than to murder three people (so far). Why not bring his story to the attention of Anderson Cooper, whom he seems to admire so much?

This is a man who has chosen throughout his life to respond forcefully when his feelings are hurt. That's what it boils down to.

the racist cop will never get fired, hence the LAPD problem.
it seemed like the racist was warned not to say it, and continued. gloves off.
his recent actions, he's obviously snapped and gone insane
don't see anything else about reacting forcefully, besides trying to strangle the racist cop

[bayareamike]

227. He gives other examples in his manifesto.

There is that choking story, a story about hitting a racist boy in school, so on and so forth. He feels it is appropriate to respond with force when he is offended or insulted. His killing spree is the latest incarnation of that mentality.

[farminator3000]

228. well, i have no problem with somebody punching racists after they are told to shut up

i really think he has brain damage from the 2 football concussions...

junior seau, that guy that shot his GF recently...it IS a huge problem...

[zappaman]

73. Not the ravings of a lunatic?

The guy says he is bummed that he is going to miss HANGOVER 3!
That's not lunacy?

[louslobbs]

123. That is true, even if what he says is true, they are now the ravings of a murdering lunatic and no

one can deny that. No one can even say he "snapped," because he planned this and you can't plan to "snap," you just do.....I guess......I've never "snapped" so it's not something I can relate to. This is all just all so sad and sick. This guy Dorner had other avenues, he seemed intelligent and well versed in what he chose to do in his career, why not use that intelligence to communicate rather than kill? He claims this is the only way to get the attention drawn to the LAPD issues he claims exist, as well as his own personal upsets with said agency. How does one get so angry and deluded, that this becomes their final and conclusive answer to what they claim is wrong in their life or what is wrong at the LAPD?
Lou

[NightOwwl]

152. Powerlessness

I'll try to put into words how helpless it makes one feel. It's like being sucked into a black hole of despair where no one hears your cries for help. You try all available means to stop those who are abusing their power, but finally realize no one is going to help you, ever.

He thought violence was the only way his voice would be heard.

That does not excuse what he did. He is a murderer.

[cherokeeprogressive]

111. BULLSHIT. Hasn't he known too much for the almost FIVE YEARS since he got fired?

He's going to get his ticket punched alright... but not for " knowing too much". He's "known too much" for the whole time.

This guy fucked up. Big time. B-I-G T-I-M-E. He killed Law Enforcement and the family members of Law Enforcement.

That you think his "manifesto" is not the ravings of a lunatic is hilarious. Does a sane man kill the family of someone he dislikes? Dorner's credibility is Less Than Zero. He didn't take it to the news organizations, he took a GUN to the family of someone he's mad at.

[NightOwwl]

147. I have no sympathy for Dorner.

His manifesto had an introduction, content and conclusion. He laid out the why, what and where. His accusations were accompanied by numerous examples. A raving lunatic would not have that kind of control.

Is he a murderer? Yes.
Is it possible there is some truth to his writings? Yes
Are the two mutually exclusive? No.

[bayareamike]

218. Thank you! Dorner deserves NO sympathy.

The only unfortunate thing is that he'll be shot and killed and won't be able to answer for his actions. I'd rather him sit in a cell for the rest of his days.

[dkf]

126. Sounds like a lunatic to me.

There is something very very wrong with this Person. Probably he has some sort of personality disorder with an inflated sense of self.

[jsr]

139. He is not long for this world.

It's a given.

[libdem4life]

15. The LAPD connection to Hollywood is far deeper then "filming permits."

The drug industry in the TMZ...Thirty Mile Zone...is shameful. All those "clubs" that thousands of celebrities and/or wannabes or their entourages sit in day in and day out and the nearby hotels...it's not all beer and wine.

It is regulated and either participated in or protected by all. Otherwise, they don't get there.

[Taverner]

20. It goes all the way back to the Hayes Code.

The pressure to adopt the Hayes Code came not from Federal interests, but from LOCAL (read: LA) interests.

See: Fatty Arbuckle

[farminator3000]

104. ya got me thinkin' - they wouldn't make such great movies about it unless...

somebody knows someone.

LA Confidential, of course, and this a a damn good review below. i thought i caught a lot of details!

Polanski does not attempt to thrill or even terrify us by CHINATOWN’s violence. Rather, he attempts to get us to accept its permanence.

-skip-

We quickly realize that Gittes has been fucked over so many times that he’s only looking for a little edge, just enough to keep going and stay a little ahead. Even his rage is somehow muted, tired..skip...But he can never get far enough ahead to figure out what is going on, to get on top of it.

-skip-

Polanski’s point is that we should accept Cross’s mastery as total and inevitable . Thus we should accept the pessimism of the film’s conclusion as equally inevitable.

Gittes has been had, we've been had, and Polanski can retire behind his work of art, smiling at the folks out there, assuming that he has gotten us to accept his vision of corruption and nihilism.
http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/JC03folder/ChinatSperber.html

[11 Bravo]

23. Hope in one hand, and shit in the other. Let us know which one fills up first.

It ain't happening. This guy will never see the inside of a courtroom.

[bayareamike]

25. I call BS. The "real story" isn't just about the LAPD.

Yes, the LAPD is known to be corrupt. That isn't news. This guy is hunting people who didn't even have anything to do with his hardship.

This guy is full of **** and I have no sympathy for him. He needs to rot. The daughter who was killed was a god damn basketball coach. Her fiance was a recent graduate of the police academy. How could a recent graduate of the police academy possibly have anything to do with him losing his job over four years ago. The answer is that neither of them had anything to do with it. This guy is deranged.

Not to mention that the two police officers targeted in Riverside appear to be targets of opportunity. And he attempted to steal a boat from an innocent person. These are all crimes against innocent parties.

Lastly, everything he says about the LAPD (at this point) cannot be confirmed nor denied. The reality is that, at this point in time, we only know one thing for sure: that Christopher Dorner is a murderer. Period.

[JI7]

47. exactly, this guy is no better than that Dykes asshole who took the kid hostage

killed the bus driver .

[Taverner]

51. He is worse because he killed more - However, that's not my point

Even the most despicable human being can bring a correct message in

That is why I hope they capture him ALIVE not dead

[JI7]

57. WE KNOW THE LAPD IS CORRUPT

if this guy knew something he would have come out and told about it, written a book gone on some show, post on a website anything.

but instead the fucker is ranting about personal crap against him and using the known LAPD corruption as an excuse for the crap he is doing.; ;

[Taverner]

59. OK then - send him to jail for life

BUT BY ALL MEANS INVESTIGATE THE LAPD!!!!!!!!

[Taverner]

50. That is part of it - and I would like to see him in jail for life

He is a narcissist, who - another DUer posted - wants his "pound of flesh"

But this doesn't make the message less important

Just the messenger

[JI7]

67. the fucker lost any crediblity he might have had, he made it worse to clean up

the corruption.

[Taverner]

70. No on 1, Yes on 2

But if this event uncovers a ton of corruption at the LAPD, should we dismiss it all?

[JI7]

75. they just might dismiss it coming from a muderous thug like him

[HangOnKids]

62. He Killed The Young Couple To Get Back At Randy Quan His Former Captain @ LAPD

The girl killed was Randy's daughter, Dorner blamed Quan for his firing at LAPD.

[bayareamike]

86. Right, I understand that.

In no way did she have anything to do with it.

[Taverner]

91. No - she was innocent. What he did was unconscionable.

But that does not detract from his message

[cherokeeprogressive]

119. Are you fucking kidding?

Tell me why you think he didn't go to the PRESS with these bombshell accusations and allegations? Because he knew too much?

[2pooped2pop]

197. yeah, the press would listen

NOT

Like someone else said. LAPD being corrupt is not news.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Leave the emotion

The problems at the Rampart division were legendary, for example.

The issues he raises are there. They are very real and the FEDs had LAPD under observation for decades.

These are facts.

He also, so far, has killed three people. I do not expect him to be taken alive, due to some of the people in question. While you might applaud this, let's go back to the very well known issues of LAPD and what do we do about it? Cause you know what? LAPD thanks you for letting your emotion ignore the issues raised, the issues of very serious corruption.

He alleges he took this to courts...tried to be a whistleblower...there is a smidgen of reality to that claim.

Regardless, trial of the century? Don't think so, his next stop is a cold slab at the morgue.

[bayareamike]

100. Leave the emotion? What?

This guy is a lunatic and he is murdering people. Why leave the emotion?

Corruption within the LAPD, which I myself have admitted is documented and known, in no way justifies, rationalizes, or excuses murder. Coldblooded murder against innocent parties, I might add.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. Nobody is excusing any of the murders

And yes, you are letting emotion get in the way.

Have a good day.

[bayareamike]

105. Get in the way of what?

I see the situation perfectly clear. Yes, the LAPD is corrupt. That isn't news. Does that justify murder? No way.

That's all I'm saying. Dorner deserves punishment.

Just because I have a different point of view doesn't mean my view is clouded. That I work for the DA's office probably leaves me with very different feelings than many around here on this subject.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Nobody is telling you he does not deserve to face a judge

For the record, I doubt he will.

Go read the manifesto and analyze it for what is says about LAPD command. It's actually worst, if proven, than most of us thought. A rookie that was part of the Rodney King beating is now a Captain in command of 200 officers... That could be serious, and a serious claim

But please, do not tell me either the OP or me are justifying it. We want him caught, and I want the LAPD under Federal review. It might come as a shock, but one does not automatically exclude the other.

[bayareamike]

112. I believe we are misunderstanding one another.

I'm not accusing you of justifying it. There is no disagreement here

I've read the manifesto. I cannot independently verify any of those claims. The only fact at this point is that Dorner implicated himself in the murders that have occurred.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. That is were FOIA and investigative reporters

Come in.

.

Some of this could be easily checked.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

157. If the issues are "legendary and "under observation for decades" then why make a hero a murderer?

People are acting like he's some whistleblower on a desperate spree to draw attention to his plight. He's not, as proven by your post. The problems are legendary; meaning, not a secret to anyone. The feds have been investigating for decades; meaning, the feds have been investigating for decades. He's not raising issues about serious corruption because the issues are legendary and have been investigated for decades.

Nevermind the fact that he's killing people wholly unassociated with his professed grievances and the even bigger fact that --

POTENTIAL RAMPAGE KILLERS OUGHT TO BE FIRED FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT!

Someone please explain to me how anyone can complain about Rampart being abusive when the cops act outside the law and then applaud when a manifestly deranged person goes around murdering innocent people on his own private revenge fantasy. It seems to me firing this jackhole was one of the few things the LAPD did good.

[farminator3000]

204. yes!

check post #104, just a review of Chinatown, but i think it says a BUNCH.

you're right, the emotion is used to hide the facts.

[Taverner]

74. "This guy is full of **** and I have no sympathy for him. He needs to rot." - WE AGREE

However at the end of your post you say "everything he says about the LAPD (at this point) cannot be confirmed nor denied. The reality is that, at this point in time, we only know one thing for sure: that Christopher Dorner is a murderer. Period."

No, we actually know that his dismissal wasn't the clear cut case explained by LAPD.

Investigate that.

[TeamPooka]

53. "He has a story to tell" and I won't bother listening now. Killing innocents and cops is not how

you get my attention or sympathy.
LAPD may have its problems
and this guy might even have been wronged hypothetically
but this is not how you handle it - by declaring war on cops and their children.

[Taverner]

58. I never said he was handling it well

I am just saying that being wronged in the way he described - might cause some people to take a second look at his manifesto

Which is good

Because that is the real story

Him? He's a murderer. Life in prison. Worst way of bringing attention to this.

But it is not the medium, but the message that is important here.

Even the biggest asshole can deliver the right message.

[Dreamer Tatum]

69. So his murder spree is like a publicity tour to you.

Wow, my head is still reeling: the LAPD is CORRUPT? That comes right out of left field!!!

[JI7]

79. maybe Jimmy Lee Dykes had something to tell us with the talk radio

yeah, he is a muderer but, how about the message ? that's good isn't it ?

[Dreamer Tatum]

83. I understand the Unabomber had a message, too.

Guess that's REALLY worthwhile, since he killed a lot of people.

Let's face it - some DUers just want cops to bleed, and this is red meat for them.

[zappaman]

150. Sad but true.

That is true of too many here...

[Agnosticsherbet]

61. So how many more people can he murder before his story isn't worth hearing?

Just wondering.

[Taverner]

68. +100

[Le Taz Hot]

65. Am I like the last person in the universe

who had NO idea who this person is?

[JI7]

72. the news just came out late last night

[JI7]

80. if his story is so important why the fuck didn't he tell it ?

why did he kill innocent people instead ?

[Taverner]

89. He did. Through all of the "official" channels NT

[JI7]

92. why not go to the media ? why not post in the internet instead of a kill list ?

[Taverner]

94. Because he's either an idiot, or narcisistic...

As one DUer pointed out, he wanted his pound of flesh

But that doesn't detract from his experience...

[JI7]

99. why not ? credibility matters, considering what he is doing now, seems to me like

they were right in getting rid of him.

[Taverner]

138. Please oblige me this: Put yourself in his shoes for 5 minutes

Re-read his manifest

From his perspective

Then come back to me

[JI7]

144. ok, and ?

[Taverner]

145. If you don't get it you don't get it

Sorry I wasted your time

[JI7]

146. i'm not the one who doesn't get it

[Taverner]

148. We both don't get each other

We aren't going to agree
So never mind - I respect you and think it is best if we walk away

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Watch LA local news coverage.

Your answer will be there. We are talking about it. After the Rampart scandal LAPD took control over a lot f it and what is said about them. They made sure the media talked of the thugs during the riots, not the officers who beat the crap out of Rodney King.

I read the manifesto. Yes, he killed people, and I doubt he will be taken alive, but his claims...he truly crossed the thin blue line.

[JI7]

82. reminds me of the Sister of the Rapist/Killer in Iraq

when she was crying about how we should never be there in response to the horror committed by her brother there.

[damnedifIknow]

85. Flat out

these cops were not looking for an arrest in my opinion they were looking for a kill. Judge, jury, executioner.

[coalition_unwilling]

96. They're going to kill him and probably have a drone lined up and

armed for exactly that mission.

No way are they going to allow the story of Rampart (whitewashed and swept under the rug) to be aired out in its full magesty. No way.

[Taverner]

98. No, unfortunately not.

[JI7]

110. too bad he didn't allow the story of Rampart to be aired out instead of killing the young couple

a few days ago.

[coalition_unwilling]

113. Rampart (the larger scandal) was totally and completely swept under the rug. Given the

continual fellating of the LAPD by local news media, that was not going to change any time soon.

[JI7]

120. so we don't even try to uncover it ?

[Taverner]

114. He's an idiot and/or a narcissist

He can only think of himself

But his message is just as important as his capture

Kapich?

[jberryhill]

108. He's not going to be taken alive

He makes that pretty clear.

[kestrel91316]

115. They will shoot to kill on sight. He will not be given the slightest opportunity to surrender.

Just watch.

LAPD cannot afford to have him telling everything he has experienced there.

None of this excuses the killings he has done whatsoever. But they do not want his story to come out. He'll name names.

[Taverner]

118. Yes - this is Worst Case Scenario

[rhett o rick]

127. They already have shown they will shoot on sight. They shot two ladies

because they thought it was him. THey just started shooting. I hope they get him soon for the safety of the public. And not from him.

[Taverner]

128. Yes - you are right in a cynical, but all-too-true sort of way...

[rhett o rick]

129. I am glad the cynicism came thru. nm

[Taverner]

135. Cynicism is always there - but the level of counter-hope goes up and down

Obama is still better than I would have expected at this point....

[rhett o rick]

160. As cynical as I am I still was quite niave to think during the Bush fiasco that we would

be able to undo the human rights damage as soon as we got a Democratic president. I could not have been more wrong.

IMO the oligarchs are willing to throw us a bone by giving us some gains the area of social issues. They really dont care about same-sex marriage other than it's a great distraction as is gun control. But the oligarchs want Wall Street to flourish and they like to see the rights of the masses curtailed (eg. Patriot Act, domestic spying, etc.). So they are ok with Pres Obama's performance.

[Taverner]

165. The system itself has to be changed

I don't know how

But the system itself - too open to control from above

[rhett o rick]

171. I am currently reading a book, "The Irony of Democracy." It's about American Government

from the perspective of elite theory. The elite theory points out that all organizations are run by the elite. And if you have democracy it's at the pleasure of the elite.

[Taverner]

174. I'll check it out.

Have you read Chomsky's "Failed States"?

‘Steinbruner and Gallagher express hope that the threat the US government is posing to its own population and the world will be countered by a coalition of peace-loving nations – led by China! We have come to a pretty pass when such thoughts are expressed at the heart of the establishment. And what that implies about the state of American democracy – where the issues scarcely even enter the electoral arena or public discussion – is no less shocking and threatening, illustrating the democratic deficit mentioned in the preface. Steinbruner and Gallagher bring upChina because of all the nuclear states it ‘has maintained by far the most restrained pattern of military deployment.’ Furthermore, China has led efforts in the United Nations to preserve outer space for peaceful purposes, in conflict with the United States , which, along with Israel , has barred all moves to prevent an arms race in space.’

[JI7]

122. seems like he didn't want his story to come out either

considering he decided to kill a young couple a few days ago rather than tell his story.

[robinlynne]

143. I dont think it is even about that. he killed 2 cops and a cops daughter. he will not be taken alive

Noon is interested in hearing his story at this point.

[kestrel91316]

163. I know he won't. I know how LAPD operates. Hell, he probably

has a price on his head and whoever shoots him first will find a nice wad of cash mysteriously appearing in their pocket.

But regardless of what he is accused of, he is entitled to due process. Let's not forget that.

[robinlynne]

211. I agree with you. just syaing. there are 10,000 police after him. He killed a cop.

no chance they will bring him in alive. he knows that. he already said it in his letter.

[kestrel91316]

215. I'm just concerned for the innocent bystanders the cops might kill or injure in their

desire to mete out street justice.

Betcha those LAPD detectives who shot those two (Latino, not Asian) women yesterday never even have to apologize to them. Buncha thugs.

[robinlynne]

229. +1.

[southernyankeebelle]

130. Sad to say this man is going to go down fighting. Even if everything he said is true

killing people will not get him the justice he wants. The sad thing is I kind of believe him.

[Taverner]

133. Sadly, yes. You are right.

God this sucks on an epic level...

[southernyankeebelle]

137. It sure does. Here he is worried about his good name and he is hurting himself. I feel

bad for him. Dang he was a Captain in the army.

[bayareamike]

151. You feel bad for a triple homicide suspect?

Really? Even if some of the things in his manifesto are true, how does killing three innocent people bring any justice to the situation?

[southernyankeebelle]

193. Please read my other comment. I said killing people isn't going to justify what he has

done. Again I don't think killing justifies anything. But I can feel how I want to feel. He is hurting himself about his own good name. Yet I can feel sorry for the man and I think there might be some truth in what he says.

[Dawson Leery]

134. The LAPD is the most overtly corrup in the nation.

Also, nothing will be done so long as the LAPD has a union. Unions for Law Enforcement are a terrible idea.

[Taverner]

136. I think the union can be beneficial - you just have to set up the right env

nt

[robinlynne]

140. They dont generally take cop killers alive, do they?

[Taverner]

149. No. No they don't NT

[lunasun]

142. Dead men tell no tales

He shot a CO's daughter
is armed and trained to use it
Does he speak any truths?
If he did, that doesnt matter anymore
he popped maybe after being pushed to the edge or always being on the edge
he has made him self enemy #1 now by murder
I think they will shoot on sight but really let us hope no one else gets shot by police
twice now
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022330748
SECOND incident of police opening fire on car in case of mistaken identity.

[left on green only]

153. Don't forget about.......

"If a movie doesn't make the LAPD look good, they deny filming permits. Period."

......Eddie Murphy's "Beverly Hills Cop I, II, & III

Of course it might be argued that Eddie Murphy is now a resident of rural Sacramento.

But none the less, I am today unable to look at one of those fine boys in blue without splitting a gut.

[freshwest]

155. EDITED: Smiling and happy. Gotta google this.

I'm way behind on this one.

[JI7]

164. that 2nd pic is not him, it's the 2 people he murdered

she was a basketball coach and he had just graduated from the police academy last summer and worked as security guard at usc.

she was the daughter of a police officer(now retired) that he didn't like.

[freshwest]

167. Sorry, it's bleached out and I thought he was thinner. Deleting all but one.

They were all labeled as being him, but that's the google at times. So he shot those people. I still haven't found the main story, just these other threads.

Guess I'll have to google to find out what this is about - Taverner is saying something about corruption, I think.

[JI7]

170. yes, the 4th pic is of him, google can be misleading based on the first search

since related pics will turn up but the names might still be of the original search.

[freshwest]

172. Okay, I deleted it. Still smiling there. I'm going to google, this is confusing to me.

I think Taverner and some other people think there is more to this story than first appears. But if he did kill the couple, it's not really about the LAPD, is it?

[JI7]

176. he was fired from the LAPD

and left behind some manifesto where he tells about how he was wrongly fired and gives as his reason for the killings. the first 2 people he killed were those people in that pic you posted . he is targeting police and even family members. that's why he killed that girl and her fiance .

the thing is it's well known the LAPD is corrupt. seems more like this guy was using what is well known as an excuse for what he did.

some seem to think the guy is worth listening to and has some point.

[freshwest]

178. Yes, I found a link. Maybe there is a conspiracy or maybe not. LAPD has problems.

This is what I found, but we may never know what happened. Note the word in the story below, 'alleged.' I know that's a legal protection, but perhaps some think that gives him an out. Here's some of it:

"The department has not changed since the Rampart and Rodney King days. It has gotten worse," Dorner wrote. "I know I will be vilified by the LAPD and the media. Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name."

Not sure if killing innocents is a necessary evil, most of us don't agree.

Dorner named members of the LAPD whom he would target and said they would not be safe at home or at work.

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," he wrote. "You will now live the life of the prey."

That sounds pretty bizarre there. As if he is still in the armed forces. Maybe as people return from wars we will be hearing more things in civilian life termed this way than usual. Sad, anyway.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/los-angeles-cops-chris-dorners-manifesto-speaks/story?id=18434105

[DisgustipatedinCA]

166. Read his manifesto

He addresses your question about his state of mind and what he describes as his happy-go-lucky nature. It makes for fascinating reading. Whatever else this guy is, he's very intelligent, and he's a pretty decent writer (he could use an editor). He goes into great detail with his accusations of police corruption. He doesn't have bombshell information about the force as a whole, as some in this thread have said. His intent appears to be clearing his own name in the incident for which he was fired. And he addresses reporters--any who would care to investigate his claims. He tells them what timeframe they should look for in internal affairs reports, gives names of people they should speak to, and so on. Then he goes into his target selection methodology and rationale. It's bizarre and fascinating. Nothing trumps the slaughter of innocents, and he will die for that, but he makes me think someone should take a close look at the LAPD.

[Taverner]

175. +100

[JI7]

177. Why didn't he go to the Reporters with his story ? this happened 4 years ago

if adam lanza left behind some note about how he was wrongly suspended in school should people investigate that after he had killed those kids and teachers ?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

179. I have no idea. I'm not his advocate. But his manifesto makes for compelling reading n/t

[ChisolmTrailDem]

225. Maybe he did and for whatever reason they didn't do their due diligence. There's

more to this story. So far all we have is Dorner's version.

[JI7]

230. WHy didn't he post it all on a WEbsite then ?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

231. Good question. I'll be sure to ask him next time he calls for my advice. eom

[Raine]

156. I hope so too but I would bet the cops will shut him up by killing him. nt

[rightsideout]

162. Yep

I agree. The LAPD probably doesn't want him to say any more than he has already. With him on the run and armed and dangerous it's an excuse to take him down.

I imagine with his training he can survive out in the wilderness at night but it does get cold.

He's pretty much a marked dead man though. He killed a cop in addition to two others. And seeing that the LAPD is trigger happy already by shooting newspaper delivery people the odds are against him he'll get out alive.

One thing I haven't heard much on this is the gun debate. There's alot of focus on him being in the Navy and the LAPD and how they screwed him over but he still acquired a large amount of weapons like any other guy that's come unhinged or planned an attack. It's part of the continuing problem this country faces with maniacs acquiring weapons and adding to the 1,340,000 killed since 1968 and adding to the 1550 killed since Newton. People that shouldn't have guns are able to get them an kill people.

That issue can't be overlooked even though this guy seems to be acquiring a folk hero status.

[NCTraveler]

168. If he is captured alive...

I hope he never gets to see the light of day. He would love to be given a microphone or a way to communicate with the public. I am sure many killers have something to say. Ohh well. Fuck them. Scum bag got his say with his little manifesto. A manifesto where he tells journalist where to look, yet never states what journalist he has gone to in the past to uncover this shit.

I do agree with you about the LAPD. Something needs to be done there. First and foremost, I home this spurs some real journalism.

[Catherine Vincent]

169. I've read some of his manifesto and a lot of it makes a lot of sense

Is this a cop that just snapped? RIP to those he killed.

[Demo_Chris]

180. This is one interesting thread.

I have absolutely no doubt that there is all kinds of corruption and misconduct within the LAPD. Hell, there is corruption and misconduct everywhere. And further, I have no doubt at all that this guy feels persecuted.

He is, after all, insane. Violently insane.

Hopefully they manage to stop him quickly before anyone else get's hurt.

[applegrove]

181. The guy is a demented monster. No

point in listening to his ravings.

[oldandhappy]

182. angry cops

make it likely that he will be killed. I support cops. Just in this case I do not trust them to make a live capture.

[Matariki]

183. Do you really thing the LAPD will let that happen

Not if he really has a story to tell. Probably not even if he doesn't.

[ScreamingMeemie]

188. Correction: He possibly HAD a story to tell... Now he's a murderous monster

nt

[HappyMe]

194. That is exactly right.

He wiped out any credibility he may have had with this monster behavior.

[Taverner]

207. So you are saying your message is all of a sudden false if you kill someone?

Not sure that passes a basic logic test...

[ScreamingMeemie]

209. I'm saying he blew it. Plain and simple.

It is posts like the OP and your response to me that create the reasons why I walk away from this place.

How awesome would it have been to hear the story without the innocent dead people layered over it?

[Taverner]

210. THis is not about him

It is about what he knows

Look, you can blame me for the murders, or spew BS that I'm lionizing him; I'm not

He has a point, and whether or not he's evil the point still stands

Wake up or live in ignorance

[ScreamingMeemie]

212. Look, I know it's fun and all to post contentious threads to get lots of posts

and attention, but I'm not going to debate with completely idiotic, martyr-making-out-of-a-murderer logic.

Have fun with your latest attempt, Tav...

[ScreamingMeemie]

219. Is this where I am supposed to be offended?

Whether I'm a troll or not is for Admin to decide. I'm not really worried about it. What I am worried about is your misguided defense of heinous acts.

On edit: But, hey, this thread got the tons of attention that was craved.

[Taverner]

220. No this is where you are supposed to re-read what I wrote

And maybe just maybe, realize that I'm not making a martyr out of him

But hey, live in your bubble! Make up reality as you go along. That worked so well for Rove...

[ScreamingMeemie]

224. What I see is you trying to backstep.

How about going back up to my original response instead?

That's not a bubble. That's reality.

And thank you for keeping this response relatively free from personal attacks.

That Rove thing is kind of funny...considering.

[robinlynne]

213. more like: If you kill someone, people will not care about your message or want to hear it.

[bayareamike]

221. Not necessarily false, but it sure

loses credibility. This is common sense. Doesn't take an academic to figure that one out....

[Taverner]

222. Yes, yes this is true. Trust but verify.

My concern is not that we treat the killer nicely, but that he will live to testify

And my hope is that the media will look into the LAPD again

These things don't happen by accident, you know

[bayareamike]

223. Pretty much agreed. nt

[Taverner]

206. So is the LAPD

[farminator3000]

205. at least he isn't Eric Robert Rudolph! he should go FBI or even Canada

did you see the anderson cooper coin/DVD package thing? crap! i hope he scanned some shit...

LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith says LAPD robbery-homicide detectives will inspect the package for clues.


there goes the chain of evidence or whatever its called!

http://www.13wmaz.com/life/entertainment/article/216360/18/Ex-LA-Cop-Murder-Suspect-Sent-Anderson-Cooper-Parcel-

Eric Robert Rudolph

Eric Robert Rudolph (born September 19, 1966), also known as the Olympic Park Bomber, is responsible for a series of bombings across the southern United States between 1996 and 1998, which killed two people and injured at least 150 others in the name of an anti-abortion and anti-gay agenda. The Federal Bureau of Investigation considers him a terrorist.[1]

As a teenager Rudolph was taken by his mother to a Church of Israel compound in 1984; it is connected to the Christian Identity movement.[2] He has called himself a Roman Catholic in "the war to end this holocaust" (in reference to abortion).[3] He has confirmed religious motivation, but denied racial motivation for his crimes.[4]

He spent five years on the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives until he was caught in 2003. In 2005, as part of a plea bargain, Rudolph pled guilty to numerous federal and state homicide charges and accepted four consecutive life sentences in exchange for avoiding a trial and a potential death sentence.

Fugitive

Rudolph was first identified as a suspect in the Alabama bombing by the Department of Justice on February 14, 1998. He was named as a suspect in the three Atlanta incidents on October 14, 1998.

On May 5, 1998, he became the 454th fugitive listed by the FBI on the Ten Most Wanted list. The FBI considered him to be armed and extremely dangerous, and offered a $1 million reward for information leading directly to his arrest. He spent more than five years in the Appalachian wilderness as a fugitive, during which federal and amateur search teams scoured the area without success.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph

[farminator3000]

208. Life of Olympics Bomber, Holocaust Denier Eric Robert Rudolph Examined in New Book

Much was known about Rudolph by the time he was sent to prison — his early Holocaust denial, his hatred for Jews and association with adherents of the racist Christian Identity theology — but even more remained hidden. What seemed hardest to understand was what actually made the pretty-boy bomber tick.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/winter/books-on-the-right

***

IR: What was your impression of the Rudolph family when you first met them in Topton in 1984?

DEBORAH RUDOLPH: They had a charming little house on eight-and-a-half acres on one of the highest peaks in North Carolina. It was something to realize how self-sufficient they were, how they had a generator in case the electricity went out. They had a wood-burning stove that heated water inside a radiator.

They had a distiller for their water that steamed the water so you wouldn't have to drink faucet water and its fluoride. They'd say, "It's terrible how they put fluoride in the water to poison our kids!" And Joel would always tell me, "If we ever get invaded, you'll have a place to go."

Everything up there was tastefully done. I mean, these are not back woods country people, hicks living in the back woods. They are very clean, very self-sufficient people. I like to call them my little organic family.

A lot of people get this impression that Eric was this guy who was raised up there in the mountains — some kind of Grizzly Adams. Well, they've got the wrong impression. He was very smart. All the kids were very well read.

IR: It's been said that some of the Rudolph family were adherents of the anti-Semitic and racist Christian Identity theology. What was your first contact with family members' racial views?

RUDOLPH: I already knew Joel's racial inclinations [at the time of meeting the family], his feelings about races and the Jewish people — how they run the country, they run the money, most of them are on Wall Street or in banks, they run the publishing companies, the media is run by them. He said that Jews control what we hear and see on TV and what is in publications.

And he would have all these facts to back his ideas up — people in publishing, people in Hollywood, actors who changed their Jewish names. He could name them all off, like Michael Douglas.

And the Bible, it was like I was reading the Bible in a whole new light. I got really, really interested just from listening to Joel talk about it. It's really amazing how your mind takes on their whole mindset.

But the last time Joel saw Eric [at Christmas 1997, at Maura's house in Hendersonville, N.C., just weeks before the Birmingham bombing], they had words. They were arguing about Eric's views. Joel said he couldn't handle it. Everything is hate, hate, hate. And Joel has now become this really enlightened spirit.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2001/winter/running-with-rudolph

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Christian Identity
Associated Profiles
Louis Beam
Vincent Bertollini
Bo Gritz
James Wickstrom
Associated Groups
Kingdom Identity Ministries
America's Promise Ministries
Essay: The Christian Identity Movement

Of all the movements that have appeared among white racists in America, Christian Identity is surely one of the strangest.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/christian-identity

http://www.splcenter.org/search/apachesolr_search/eric%20rudolph