I know we have some Ron Paul supporters here, so here are some reasons to NOT like Ron Paul

[cleanhippie]

[Hugabear]

1. Here's one reason: he's fucking Ron Paul. Nt

[cleanhippie]

2. You would think that that reason alone would be enough.

[Major Nikon]

3. The so-called pros aren't pros

He isn't "Anti Drug War", he just wants the feds out of that business. As far as what he really means is anyone's guess.

He might be "Anti Federal Reserve" but what he means here is abolishing our entire current monetary system and migrating back to the failed 100 year old idea of a gold standard. You have to look way out on the far right wing free market side of the wingnut looney bin to find where those ideas come from.

[cleanhippie]

4. Very good points.

[Uncle Joe]

24. That would still be a step in the right direction, if you have a corrupt, dysfunctional

immoral, counterproductive, draconian, Bill of Rights raping "drug war" policy it would be much better to have it at the state level than for the entire nation to suffer it.

As the federal government has greater reach and is much stronger than the states, this would an improvement to current policy.


"He isn't "Anti Drug War", he just wants the feds out of that business. As far as what he really means is anyone's guess."

I don't dispute Paul's other short comings, I do greatly lament the fact that a "broken clock can get it right twice a day" while the supposed clocks that work keep missing that time as if it didn't exist.

[Major Nikon]

30. One step forward, 99 steps back ain't worth it

[Uncle Joe]

32. That's correct but it has nothing to do with my post. n/t

[bvar22]

5. I don't believe I have seen anyone on DU...

...advocate voting for Ron Paul,
or even anyone who claims to "like" him.

There are a couple of other issues where he takes the right position,
and I would LOVE to see the Democratic Party incorporate them, or explain why not:

*Slashing Military Spending

*Dismantling Homeland Security

*Restoring Civil Liberties and Constitutional Restrictions on Executive Power



NOBODY should vote for Ron Paul.
THAT would be a disaster.
EVERY Liberal democrat should petition the Democratic Party leadership to co-opt Ron Paul's position on these important issues.


[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
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[cleanhippie]

6. If it's any consolation...

The SecDef just announced yesterday that the DoD budget would be slashed by nearly 50%.

[TheWraith]

7. Actually 20%. $50 billion a year in the first round of cuts, another $50 billion/year thereafter.

If you factor in the money no longer being spent in Iraq, it's closer to 35-40%, but that was never "officially" a part of the DOD budget.

[cleanhippie]

9. Thats still 500 billion over the next decade.

And thats about half of the budget now. Most governments cuts and expenditures are figured over a 10 year period. Either way, its a move in the right direction.

[TheWraith]

8. Then you haven't been looking.

There have been a neverending influx of Paul trolls trying to convert people here, and a few regulars trying subtly pump him up. Usually using Greenwald or one of the other third-party advocates as a proxy.

[MadHound]

15. Really? Care to point out these Paul trolls?

My guess, they're either stalking horses that you use to try and smother any criticism of Obama, or figments of your fevered imagination.

[Arkana]

27. Now who's got their head in the sand?

[Bluenorthwest]

19. That sounds like something you should point out to Skinner. If you see that, Skinner and

Co are failing. Promotion of any GOP candidate here is not welcome. Why is it that you make such accusations here, instead of alerting to Skinner when you see our community rules trashed like that? I think it is that you do not see these things at all, you just think you do, then off gas here.
If what you say is true, tell the admins each time. Without hesitation.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

26. names, please, or you have nothing

You say there are Ron Paul trolls here. Name them, or you're protecting them. There's no alternative, unless you're not telling the truth.

[Galraedia]

28. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002243976

[DisgustipatedinCA]

29. thanks, but there are no names here.

Also, dailypaul.com resolves to a different IP address than democraticunderground.com. It's a different site. The other poster was talking about members of DU he knows to be "paulbots", and I'd like to know what he's talking about and who he is talking about.

[Major Nikon]

10. Fuck Ron Paul and the horse he rode in on

Mentioning Ron Paul and "Civil Liberties" in the same sentence doesn't work for me, and in fact mentioning Ron Paul at all to any politician I might vote for isn't going to happen. Even the so-called good ideas Paul might have generally have some extremely fucked up elements along with them.

[cascadiance]

11. Civil Rights he definitely sucks with. Civil Liberties though he has some winning points...

I want to preface this by saying that I am by NO means advocating for Ron Paul. The dangerous things listed here that he does support here make him even worse than the other Republicans here who aren't as strident on those issues as he is.

But we do need to acknowledge where his "strengths" are that he ropes these narrowly focused (and at times on only a single issue) voters that he attracts to get them to come to our side.

He also is strong about advocating that we restore more transparency to our intelligence agencies like the FBI and CIA, and put in place more protection for whistleblowers in these agencies as well as folks like those people at Wikileaks. Obama by comparison, with his poor record on using rendition, killing Americans overseas without due process, signing of the recent National Defense Authorization Act, and continuing Bush's habits of using State Secrets privilege to fend off civil lawsuits (which he might and perhaps likely will do against folks like Chris Hedges on the NDAA too) has put himself in to the position of giving us a tough time with Ron Paul voters that value that as well. And I myself feel that those issues are pretty darn important and wish Obama would get his head out of the sand with them.

Many of these young Ron Paul voters do see the value of the issues listed above as well as the transparency issue I list here, and don't really see the value of things like Social Security and Medicare, because they are swallowing the lies about them not being available to them later, and don't see the necessity of such programs yet at this stage of their lives in many cases.

We need to understand what goes on in their narrowly focused heads to help weed them out of those feelings. And where Obama is weak, we need to find a way to offer them hope with other people in the Democratic caucus and party (Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, etc.) to show them that empowering Democrats (and putting more in power hopefully in this election that aren't Blue Dogs to take back the seats once inhabited by Blue Dogs and now occupied by tea party Republicans) will ultimately get them more what they want and not screw everyone in the process with other issues.

[Major Nikon]

12. Those two things go hand in hand

I don't need to acknowledge his "strengths" because his assholery makes any positive aspect irrelevant. It's like saying I need to acknowledge the KKK isn't that bad because they get together and pick up trash on the highway for one day out of the year. It's like saying I need to acknowledge a broke clock is right twice per day. I don't need to do anything of the sort. It's completely counterproductive to the overall goal.

I don't mean to attack you personally, but I'm getting more than just a little tired of hearing, "yes Ron Paul is bad, but what about..." I don't give a shit. Ron Paul's ideology is toxic and all or most of it is built on Ayn Rand pseudo-philosophic bullshit. As if that weren't bad enough the man is the worst sort of bigot. So even if I do happen to agree with him on a very small minority of positions, inevitably he gets to those positions for the wrong reasons.

I can't think of a single Republican member of congress who doesn't have a small number of positions that I might happen to agree with. I don't need to acknowledge their "strengths" either.

Fuck Ron Paul.

[cascadiance]

14. I may dislike Ron Paul as much as you do...

... but I do recognize the important thing is to try and convince those who might vote for him to vote for our side instead.

If I come off as completely dismissive of him, I lose people like that, because they do see some of these issues as being of value to them. Their big problem is that they are blind to the bigger weaknesses and as you aptly put show the "assholery" of him on them, and unless you can acknowledge how they might be seeing the value in what they do perceive, it is hard to get to the point where they see how they are wrong on so many of the other issues that makes him so dangerous.

I have similar problems with people that dismiss my concerns about some issues with Obama too. On balance, I still think he's the best we have available and will vote for him in a heartbeat to ensure we don't get one of the jerks in the Republican Party destroying our country. But that doesn't take away my concern on things that Obama has been let's just say not having good positions on certain issues (like the National Defense Authorization Act detention provisions) which we progressives feel are sorely needed now. If we at least acknowledge those issues and point out others where we feel Obama is the only real decent choice with, independents, etc. can't write us off (and Obama as well) for also having those concerns, but not seeing the other issues where Obama has a lot more value to us than his Republican opponents that we absolutely need to have happen.

We need to point out the big picture on all of these candidates and encourage others to do the same to do the right evaluation of them. If that is done I'm confident most of them will pick Obama in this coming election to keep us from going off the cliff.

[Major Nikon]

17. Fuck Ron Paul supporters too

If someone is willing to vote for Ron Paul, they are either deeply entrenched into his looney Ayn Rand pseudo-philosophy, or they are too ignorant to reallize what they are supporting. Either way I don't see the value in pretending their hero isn't that bad in the vain attempt to try to attract some of them. The vast majority of them are either Birchers, or Teabaggers, or both who will never vote Democrat. The only value Ron Paul has to me is as a 3rd party candidate that will suck votes away from the GOP. Other than that I wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire.

[LeftishBrit]

18. I have. Most of them were trolls; but see this thread from 2007...

where a few people defended him, and I mentioned in post 36 previous threads that supported him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2374796#2375071

I agree it's not most DU-ers; but there have always been some people who supported him, and it goes back quite a while. In fact, I think there were more a few years ago than now.

[Ohio Joe]

13. K&R - nt

[lonestarnot]

16. Another CON:

He's a rat bastard!

[Zoeisright]

20. The fact that his spawn is Rand Paul is enough to make me hate him forever.

Both of them are privileged, selfish, stupid, mean bigots.

Period.

[Romulox]

21. The Ron Paul 2 minutes of hate thing is getting tired.

I don't think it is providing the desired result (presumably increased intra-Party cohesion); instead, the daily harangues re: Paul become a daily reminder of the gap between the Party's leadership and several popular "common sense" positions--e.g. anti-war, anti Drug War, anti-Corporatism. None of those positions is "libertarian" in essence.

[LanternWaste]

22. I honestly don't give a flying fig about anyone who "likes" him, as long as no one votes for him.

I honestly don't give a flying fig about anyone who "likes" him, as long as no one votes for him.

As no one on DU may advocate voting for him-- or even allowing him any degree of support, then should you see anyone do that, an alert to the admins will do quite nicely, thank you.

[Jennicut]

23. This man is anti-women, anti-gays, anti-civil rights.

His bad ideas FAR outweigh any other ideas he may have that liberals may agree with.

[mmonk]

25. Where did you get that? Did Jenni Siri do that?

Looks familar.

[SwampG8r]

31. can someone please direct me to these mythical paul supporters on DU?

i have never seen one
are they like DMT elves?

[Rex]

34. They don't exist, just another product invented

by bored minds.

[Galraedia]

35. Bullshit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002243976

They are usually quickly banned.

[SwampG8r]

36. actually the bullshit is you linking to your own thread

a thread which does not show these paul supporters that i asked about
i do not see one person in that thread supporting paul in any way except naming small issues that he is on the right side of

[Galraedia]

37. Maybe you should learn to read then.

My thread shows that they have came here in support of Paul and that they were banned. Rather quickly too.

[SwampG8r]

38. i actually believe you believe that

so good for you

[SwampG8r]

40. oh my god how weak is this

i actually went and did all your links
first off they are all link to dead archives
nothing shows up
second they are every one on du2
i didnt click the paul links you provided for anyone who might want to see what paul is up to
i bet they all go to a real site though not a dead archive
so lets recap
nothing that shows any paulian invasion other than you posting live links to paul sites
is your proof of paulian invasion your own list of propaul links?

[Galraedia]

41. The links are not dead.

You have to click on the links to DU from inside the thread on the Paulbot forum.

And as for your question: "can someone please direct me to these mythical paul supporters on DU?"

Please everyone try to reach out to these folks. They are not beyond hope. I think they have my IP address or something cause I am permabanned, but I feel very strongly after reading this site for a while that they are very close to actually seeing what's going on. Check out these comments about HR 1207 and SB 604.

Source: http://www.dailypaul.com/100709/what-are-the-democrats-grassroots-saying-about-the-audit-the-fed-bill

I followed a link to Ron Paul /healthcare issue.These people ripped Dr Paul apart in the comments.I signed up, corrected them and i was deleted 5 Minutes later. If you want to see the best case of boobus americanas go to www.democraticunderground.com scary stuff

Source: http://www.dailypaul.com/99674/democratic-underground-is-the-worst-site-ever

Over at democraticunderground.com they are ripping Rand apart on his no citisenship for children of illegals. I am banned from posting because I mentioned Ron pauls repeal of dont ask dont tell.if you have 10 minutes to spare please try and alert the nutjobs on the left about liberty.Thanks. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=...

Source:http://www.dailypaul.com/136145/please-join-discussion

[SwampG8r]

43. again a bunch of pro paul links

from someone "anti-paul"
someone on a paul site saying "i was on du" does not prove same
i can go there and say i have a 2 assed chicken
it does not effect my egg production
someone there talking shit does not equal someone here working for paul
again the only person posting links to paulian sites is you
so
maybe
i should concede the point
since you are indeed proof that there are du members posting links to paul sites

[ZombieHorde]

42. I have seem a few, but they get banned really quickly. nt

[Rex]

33. I keep seeing that meme pushed around here and it is laughable.

No one here supports Ron Paul...that is a stupid thing to state imo. People might like one or two of his ideas (as I've seen others state), far cry from supporting him or his fucked up 'cause'.

I've seen people that say they HATE Ron Paul so much so that they spam these boards with articles about Ron Paul...which seems strange to me.

THAT I've seen a lot of.

[SwampG8r]

39. if you were a secret paul

supporter and wanted to get him into the discussion mix here
what better way than to put up vitriolic screeds highlighting where he agrees on issues
you just post a long cut and paste i hate paul and then call everyone who responds a paulian
but every post pushes pauls ideas further and further into du
the paulians are the ones who keep posting antipaul stuff
i think i broke this wide open!

[Rex]

45. It just looks like when people posted 'everything Palin'

around here...and now no one does. IMO, Paul is a passing fad and I believe some post about him just to get on others nerves. Any secret Paul person here...please if true get some professional help.

[Gold Metal Flake]

44. I know we have some Consernvatives who fear-monger about there being Ron Paul supporters at DU.

The only Ron paul "supporters" at DU are trolls and they are banned when their propaganda posts are reported. Just like the Newt supporters and the Mitt supporters and the Limbaugh supporters and the Hannity supporters and the Beck supporters and the Koch bros. supporters and all of the Republican agenda supporters.