3rd former officer Brian Bentley comes out on misconduct by LAPD

[Fire Walk With Me]

CrossXBones ‏@Cross_X_Bones

3rd former officer Brian Bentley comes out on misconduct by LAPD
http://www.eurweb.com/2013/02/ex-la-cop-brian-bentley-on-dorner-manifesto-not-only-do-i-believe-it-but-i-lived-it/ …

*Brian Bentley, 49, doesn’t agree with what Christopher Dorner — the ex-cop at center of a massive manhunt for the killings of three people—has done, but he certainly understands it.

As a former LAPD officer, Bentley, who is now an author, says that a Dorner-like situation was just a matter of time.

“It took longer than I thought it would for something like this to happen.”

In fact, Bentley says that when he was a police officer, there were frequent positings of “look out” bulletins on the walls at police stations featuring officers who’d been terminated and who were believed to have vendettas.

(More at the link.)

[BainsBane]

1. Dorner was denied promotion twice by the navy

the last time right before his spree killing began. If a naval officer is passed over for promotion twice, he's out. I had no doubt the LAPD is corrupt and problems are endemic. But that doesn't excuse or even explain Dorner's actions. A normal response to such injustice is to sue, not stockpile a huge weapons cache and start killing people. The guy felt the world was out to get him. He had problems everywhere he went. He was obviously a ticking time bomb, and he likely showed signs of that in both the police and the navy.

[zappaman]

2. Shhhhhh!

Stop throwing facts and logic at DU's righteous cop haters.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

11. anyone who criticizes police and police actions are cop haters?

Are you a badge sniffer?

[backscatter712]

42. How dare anyone here show nuance!

Why the very thought that one can express simultaneous disapproval at Dorner's murder-spree and at the LAPD's violence, racism and corruption makes my head explode!

How dare we listen to other police officers who have rationally explained and denounced the misconduct of the LAPD without murdering people!

We should blindly take sides! If you're against the LAPD's oppression, that means you obviously approve of Dorner's crimes!

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. This is not at all about what he did. It's about the cop culture which helped to create it

which has not changed whatsoever.

Remember when LA residents such as myself posted here that LAPD have been shooting to kill from the first minute and wanted him dead? We were right because we have understanding of LAPD. They must be changed, significantly. They are a clear and present danger to citizens.

[BainsBane]

5. that's what YOU think it's about

because that's what you made it about. That's not what it really is about. This is about a guy who went on a murder rampage and sought to justify it by appealing to community animosity against the police. He's was a spree killer. Nothing more.

Everything you say is likely true about LAPD. But to raise this murder up as some sort of model or hero is repulsive.

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. Exactly where did I raise him up as some sort of model or hero? n/t

[BainsBane]

17. you are ready to ignore his many murders

and claim this is all about police corruption rather than the fact this man killed a slew of people, civilian and police alike. What is that about?

[Fire Walk With Me]

21. I am ready to examine evidence that he did the murders cops claim he did

and to condemn them. Note that in America, you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We have apparently given away that aspect of due process in favor of spewing and rage and calls for execution.

Please note that POLICE LIE. They are legally allowed to lie during the gathering of evidence. They lie on the stand regularly. They protect their KKKulture and fire people who challenge it. The criminal organization LAPD are racist, anti-gay, violent, and are nearly unaccountable to the people of this city, whom they are supposed to protect and serve. They must either be ended or significantly re-done. This is no laughing matter. It is a siege against many members of our population. They are out-of-control and must be controlled.

As much as you claim I am willing to overlook Dorner's alleged crimes, and I will not condone them if he is proven guilty in a fair court, you are willing to overlook LAPD's murders and crimes which are on a far, far larger scale. There is also an issue of proportion but I will not push at it as it would seemingly be fruitless.

I've noted a statement but do not have back-up data, that Dorner attempted to bring LAPD corruption before internal affairs or courts three times and was rebuked and fired. I await public uploading of the data he sent journalists on a DVD, purportedly supporting his manifesto descriptions of corruption.

Again: I do not condone murder and violence. By him or LAPD. One of the two is far more guilty than the other.

[mythology]

23. Your first and second paragraphs are at odds with each other

Dorner deserved a day in court to defend himself, but the LAPD is already a criminal organization? Perhaps I missed the trial where the entire department was found guilty?

[Fire Walk With Me]

27. Please come live in LA for a few decades, visit Skid Row, march with Occupy or RAC

and you'll quickly learn the truth of the matter. I am not implying an absolute, but of the problems extant, there are many and they are beyond serious.

[BainsBane]

24. a trial would require he surrendered

rather than shooting at cops and refusing to turn himself in. He chose not to have a trail. You insist on due process for Dorner, but don't acknowledge those same rights for members of the police.


Dorner left the LAPD in 2009. He began his killing spree last week. The event was triggered by his being passed over for promotion in the navy and losing his commission. Yet he chose to justify his actions by pointing to LAPD corruption because he knew that would have greater purchase with the public. It was nothing but justification for his desire to kill.

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. I'm open to further evidence regarding the man, especially since what we're hearing is from LAPD.

You seem to have condemned him without actual evidence.

Again, I do not condone the murders if they are real and if he did them. And you are ignoring LAPD's crimes in pursuing and executing him (or someone else; it's not clear that the body is Dorner). LAPD are a clear and present danger to the people of this city and their policies must be significantly changed, the guilty punished. That includes Mayor Villain.

[BainsBane]

32. I'm not ignoring anything

but I do find it interesting you have decided the LAPD is guilty of crimes but withhold judgement on Dorner. You couldn't be more transparent in your prejudices.

[Fire Walk With Me]

40. Because police LIE. I'll need something called clear evidence to believe what they say.

I've seen LA media used to twist or omit facts regarding Occupy actions to a brazen extent. I've seen prosecutors and police in court do shit to harmless, peaceful protesters. I've seen the reports (you may have as well as I'd posted them yesterday in GD) about LAPD shooting 90 bullets at an unarmed teen, 16 cops attacking a homeless man, cops twice body-slamming a handcuffed woman to the ground and then fist-bumping...all of the things I'm listing are my own experience or there is clear video evidence. You are ignoring that LAPD protect their own and that Dorner's attempts to bring corruption to light met the blue wall of self-protection. Two more LAPD have come out in support of his allegations, very surprisingly. Remember Rodney King? Visit Skid Row (walking distance from city hall) and ask about LAPD. Ask the low-income and people of color. Seriously.

I am fully ready to condemn Dorner for murder if and when it is proven to not contain any LAPD or PD cover-up and self-interest. They put out a $1,000,000 bounty on his head. Goes to motive.

[BainsBane]

43. so the part of the constitution that says innocent until guilty

doesn't apply to police? Certainly there are police who lie. But that does not mean all police lie or that murders don't kill. All of the events you list are atrocious. But none of them have anything to do with Dorner.

[Fire Walk With Me]

45. They all have to do with LAPD requiring significant change. That is my focus. I do not condone the

alleged actions of Dorner.

Why not familiarize yourself with what Oakland officials did to Occupy Oakland and the lies they told the public, and the tactics they used, which in cases are similar to what was done to Dorner? (Telling media to stop broadcasting before attacking so that there is no record and they can say whatever they want in full expectation of the public swallowing it entire. Two Veteran were nearly killed by sheriffs and police, who lied about what occurred.)

http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2012/01/oakland-officials-caught-in-lies-about.html

[BainsBane]

52. because I refuse to buy into Dorner's propaganda

If you want to start a separate thread about police and occupy, I will read it in interest. But the idea that you invoke that as anyway connected to Dorner's murder spree is entirely offensive.

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. Want to know about LAPD chief Beck and mayor Villain?

At a recent downtown Artwalk, ten to twenty OccupyLA members passed out water-soluble childrens chalk for people to enjoy, including several children. LAPD said that using this chalk is illegal for now, quote unquote, and began making violent arrests. In disbelief, hundreds of Artwalkers and locals gathered and LAPD returned in riot gear, shooting tasers and rubber bullets.

Over water-soluble childrens chalk. It vanishes when barely touched by water. It was a drizzly evening.

This is what Beck and Villain had to say to justify having shot up several citizens with rubber bullets (one in the face).

Not long before the Artwalk police riot, LAPD also shot up those celebrating the King's Stanley Cup victory. You don't know what it's like here.

[BainsBane]

44. you confirm my point in my OP

Dorner was counting on people like you for sympathy. Police corruption does not justify the actions of a killer or make him any less guilty.

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. I do not sympathize with Dorner. I condemn his alleged= actions. I am focusing upon LAPD's need for

immediate and sweeping change. You are most obviously incapable of parsing these discrete items, and I have attempted to clarify multiple times. Good bye.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Amazing

That is all

[beevul]

60. No, a trial would require that he be taken alive, surrender or not.

Many many criminals have been "taken alive" that did not surrender.

It seems you are among the crowd that needs a reminder, THAT is a part of the job of law enforcement.

[BainsBane]

63. Certainly it is their job if possible

but it is not their job to sacrifice multiple cops to bring that about. One already died yesterday. How many more do you think should have been killed to bring him in alive?

[beevul]

64. I'm not sure any more would have needed to.

Are you?

[BainsBane]

65. I know none of this with certainty

I do know we heard shots all day on the television, which would indicate two sides were shooting at each other. I think it's logical to assume the cops weren't shooting at themselves. He had been on the run for a week and not surrendered.
If it had been me and I wanted to turn myself in, I would have gone to the media outlets and surrendered on camera. This struck me from the start as a classic case of suicide by cop. These kinds of killers rarely surrender. But no, I don't know for sure, but then neither do you. I certainly have seen no evidence that he did try to surrender.

[Ikonoklast]

25. Well said.

[NCTraveler]

33. "Note that in America, you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law."

That is a judicial construct. Not one for DU or citizens to follow.

Do you feel Casey Anthony is not guilty.

How about OJ.

As citizens we are allowed to make our own judgments on innocents or guilt. The judicial system cannot.

You are saying you personally cannot claim his guilt because due process has not taken place. I am saying that you, I, and anyone outside of the judicial system can.

I really find it hard to believe you cannot lay judgment on those who don't make it to trial.

[cartach]

10. Clear and present danger to psychopatic citizens.

[hootinholler]

13. And newspaper delivery people

driving the wrong color and make of truck. Or did you mean that psychopathic surfer dude?

On a basketball court, IIRC missing that badly is called a brick.

[Cooley Hurd]

16. A vast majority of the population is not "psychopathic".

But, a majority of cops are sociopathic. Why else would they take such a job?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110224151310AADw6Mx
(edit for wrong link)

[Skittles]

12. while they're looking at why he was fired

they need to look at why he was hired - that guy should never have been a cop

[Fire Walk With Me]

30. A very good point. Hiring guidelines should be significantly upgraded.

I do not have great faith in such, however, because PDs require yes men, not free thinkers:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=police+IQ+100+requirement&form=MOZSBR&pc=MOZI

[Warpy]

4. He had a major screw loose, which neither the Navy nor the LAPD

chose to address. The culture of the LAPD undoubtedly made it worse, especially when he was terminated.

I'm sure a lot of people around him spotted it, but the brain is the one organ in the human body that gets treated like a moral failure instead of a medical issue when it gets sick.

[HipChick]

8. yet both Navy and LAPD have all kinds of screening tests for applicants

[HipChick]

7. He held a TSI

which he lost, after he was fired from the LAPD - he ended up losing his TSI, and without that could not continue in his post in the Navy

[MADem]

9. If one has been passed over once going up for LCDR, I would advise them to use the year

between selection boards to get their affairs in order, saving money for a rainy day fund, doing a little networking, and start thinking about transitioning to civilian life. In this environment, it's rare for someone to get picked up on the 2nd go-round. It's a highly competitive environment.

I haven't seen much on precisely what this guy DID in USN, what his area of expertise was, if he washed out of one program and was transitioned to another...it's all very vague.

[HipChick]

18. He was Navy Reserve I believe

Not active..

[MADem]

19. You're right, he was.

Even at that, there is a loss of income that is significant, if he was both drilling, doing his two weeks of fun time, and being deployed to Bahrain for six months at a pop (which, as I've said in other threads, is a great place to buy gold, but it's not Afghanistan or Iraq).

Even if it's not his principal source of income, there's a culture to military service that envelops. Separating from military service is a bit of a shock to the system even when one goes out on one's own steam, choosing to retire rather than take that next set of orders; I have seen the effects of both medical retirements and Failures of Selection on folks who really liked what they are doing and did not want to leave--it's often a painful and sad set of circumstances.

[robinlynne]

29. Apparently he did, and was in Court for 5 years.

[BainsBane]

34. then killed the family of the officer who represented him

who had stood with him the whole time.

[robinlynne]

35. I dont know that the officer stood with him the whole time. Why do you say that?

Wasn't this a police appointed lawyer? and a police trial? and 2 friends of the person he was accusing were on the "jury"?

[BainsBane]

36. my understanding was

that Doner killed the family of his union representative who stood with him in the police proceedings. This is what was reported on MSNBC last night.

[robinlynne]

37. This is the man he most hated. The one he feels is most responsible. Dorner killed his duaghter.

So why do you say the man stood with him?

[BainsBane]

38. I'm saying that's what they reported on MSNBC

[robinlynne]

39. I dont think the two were exactly friends. Maybe you unconsciously added "the one person

who stood up for him". or someone on tv did. none of us know what really happened, but I doubt that was what happened.

[BainsBane]

49. for the third time

I did not add anything. It was reported on MSNBC by the FBI profiler. I never said they were friends. MSNBC reported that he was the guy's union rep., the person who represented him before the review board. What difference does it make? Are you creating some sort of mental hierarchy of who you think deserves to live or not based on who Dorner liked?

[robinlynne]

50. You said the person who stood uo for him. In fact it is the opposite, the person he held most

responsible for what happened. You had it backwards. That's all.

[BainsBane]

51. that he blamed his union rep

as the person responsible for his undoing ought to clue you in that he was not a rational human being.

[obamanut2012]

57. No, Randy Quan STOOD UP FOR HIM

He was his union rep. He tried to save his job.

His daughter and her boyfriend were murdered for his efforts.

[obamanut2012]

56. BainsBane is correct

[obamanut2012]

54. You're correct

[BainsBane]

58. Oh, my god.

Someone doesn't think I'm the sire of Satan. Excuse me while I get over the shock.

[obamanut2012]

74. lol

Facts are facts!

[obamanut2012]

53. He was Dorner's attormey and tried to help him

Dorner was pissed he didn't help him enough (in his own mind), wrote the manifesto, and killed the man's daughter and her BF.

The other poster is correct.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Two other officers come out and say something is rotten in Denmark

And you still don't get it.

I am thankful you do not run the DOJ.

[BainsBane]

55. You are deliberately

obtuse. I am tired of repeating the same thing to you ad nauseum. I'm doing wasting my time with people who don't read what I write. You continually ignore what I say and instead levy attacks that show you haven't bothered to read or think about anything I've written.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. No, I have not ignored a thing

One DU'er that might qualify des not make many. Thanks for the link...though.

But you are right. I am tired f this "logic." Goodbye.

[BainsBane]

73. Okay you didn't ignore

that was the most favorable explanation I could come up with, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt. The others reflect less highly on you.

[RC]

59. Have you ever walked in Dorner's shoes?

What makes you the expert? How do you know what he experienced? How do you know what was going through his mind? All you know about this is what you have read and have experienced in your life, not Dorner's.
I'm betting you have never come anywhere close to living anything like Dorner's life. For all we know, Dorner had a brain tumor. Maybe stroke. We'll never know now that is is barbecue.

[BainsBane]

61. No, I have never been a psychotic murder

and never will be. How about you? What about Lanza? Why aren't you concerned about his potential brain tumor? Or James Holmes? Ted Bundy, BTK?

[RC]

66. Because, right or wrong, there are reasons everything we do or not do.

Everything we do is decide, we decide in our brains. How we perceive the world is processed in our brains. You see the world different than I do. Each of us sees the world slightly differently. We all do not react the same way to the same things.
Some of us can blow something off, while the exact same thing can set someone else off. Why did Dorner do what he did? We can't know now, because they cooked him. All we can do now is speculate.

[BainsBane]

69. sure, and people have every right to process differently

but they have no right to kill. When they do that, I have no sympathy. So no, I have never been in his shoes. I've had my own rough experiences and never killed anyone, even though I might have been legally entitled to do so in a couple of instances.

[RC]

70. Never mind, you don't get it at all.

I taught my kids to try to see things through the other persons view point. They did not have to agree, just understand where the other person was coming from.
You are missing that part of your education.

[BainsBane]

71. How about the point of view of the police

being shot at yesterday? Or the families of the victims Dorner killed?

Did you teach your children to put yourself in Alex Lanza's shoes? Why Dorner over other killers?

[SidDithers]

14. Bentley didn't go on a killing spree to get his message out?...

Interesting.

Sid

[Cooley Hurd]

15. Most wouldn't. Dorner was clearly mentally ill, though...

[Fire Walk With Me]

20. Kick

[NCTraveler]

22. LAPD clearly has serious problems and has had them for a long time.

I truly hope this can bring about some kind of change. After hearing them say they were going to have an internal investigation with respect to Dorners conduct hearings I doubt they are even thinking about change.

I really think it would be good for them to hire a chief from the outside with a proven record. Allow that person to clean house at the upper levels and fill those positions with people he trusts. It will take major changes and years of pr to for the citizens of LA to gain even a little trust in the LAPD.

[backtoblue]

26. my uneducated guess would be

that they're looking into his files and records to either destroy or alter them.

And to clarify to those who think i'm an "apologist". (because for some reason this seems necessary...)
This man is a murderer. His actions are not condoned because of how he was treated. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, including the LAPD.

[NCTraveler]

31. "Everyone is responsible for their own actions, including the LAPD."

I wish that was the truth. It needs to be. I don't think the LAPD have in any way been held responsible for their actions.

[beevul]

67. Best of the article.

“We’ve seen what happens when the LAPD investigates the LAPD.” - Brian Bentley

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Kick

DOJ time to look into this, methinks.

[warrprayer]

72. Smack Water Jack

"you know the people were quite pleased

that the outlaw had been seized
and on the whole it was a very good year
for the undertaker"


Carole king gives me weak knees

Burn him out!

"the account of the capture wasn't in the paper
but you know they hanged old Smack right then
instead of later"