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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPerhaps it is time to let it all go to hell and back.
Seriously, by continuing to vote for the lesser of two evils over the past few decades, we now have the specter of a Democratic president who is going to be signing into law a measure that goes beyond what Bushboy ever dreamed of. We have a Democratic president who has given the insurance industry a mandated monopoly. We essentially have a Democratic president who is, for all intents and purposes, governing from somewhere to the right of Eisenhower.
We are told that we must continue to support, and vote for, this administration because otherwise the Republicans will take over and the country will go to hell. The trouble is, it has already gone to hell, and is continuing to go merrily down that selfsame path, albeit at a bit slower pace under Obama than under Bush.
So perhaps it is best that we let it all go to hell and back. Now, quickly, collapse and burn. For the quicker it all goes to hell, the quicker we can pick up the pieces and put them back together into a country that makes much more sense. The quicker we can get rid of this two party/same corporate master system of government and actually have a government by, of and for the people.
Just a thought.
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seabeyond
(110,159 posts)we did not hit bottom. where the hell is that bottom?
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)That'll show 'em! It was all supposed to get better soon. How many millions have died behind their good-intentioned stupidity?
emulatorloo
(46,154 posts)Rock bottom I guess is Gingrich, a house full of Steve Kings, and a senate full of Jim DeMints.
And then we are really fucked.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)i don't see this as a choice between two evils because i don't think president obama is evil. now those other people you mentioned.....
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Will NOT go quietly. So letting it go to hell might just mean we reach the depths sooner, but not that we will be able to turn things around once there....
MadHound
(34,179 posts)I have no doubt that we can turn it around once we're at bottom. But it will get ugly hitting that bottom that quickly, but then again it will get much uglier by taking the slow boat method.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Self sufficiency or die.
It is not something I am looking forward to.
I don't know why anyone thinks a collapse would lead to a nice organized socialized government.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)the vast majority of people in this country would not be willing to live with that. As a nice little concept, it fascinates them, but as a reality that they would be living with, these same people who are screaming for less government and ending social programs would have a hard time dealing with it. Escalating crime, stepping over homeless people on the sidewalks, no Social Security so destitute old people---it all reminds me of a saying my mom always hit me with: Watch what you wish for.
I think that if the Tea Party types got their way, it would be the end of conservatives.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Why do you assume it would happen here?
a simple pattern
(608 posts)Who would even want to?
dkf
(37,305 posts)Yup sounds about right.
dkf
(37,305 posts)But we may all go down together. That's one of the reasons why it will be different. It's too interconnected.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)The social programs are all getting the death of a thousand cuts treatment while we do our level best to funnel as much money as possible upwards.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Isn't it always.
I love that it's the people who claim to be so compassionate who are always arguing that we should "let it go to hell" in order to make things better.
It always sounds like a quick and mildly unpleasant band-aid pulling in the abstract. of course, we're still paying dearly for the last deployment of this horrendous strategy, but the people who promote these things will never admit it.
Compassionate? They're heartless imbeciles.
emulatorloo
(46,154 posts)I am sure the insurance industry is loving that.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, November 22, 2010
Contact: HHS Press Office
(202) 690-6343
New Affordable Care Act rules give consumers better value for insurance premiums
New medical loss ratio regulations make insurance marketplace more transparent and require insurers to spend premium dollars on care
New regulations issued today by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) require health insurers to spend 80 to 85 percent of consumers’ premiums on direct care for patients and efforts to improve care quality. This regulation, known as the “medical loss ratio” provision of the Affordable Care Act, will make the insurance marketplace more transparent and make it easier for consumers to purchase plans that provide better value for their money.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)should be in prison. It also leaves the only way to increase profits to increase overall systemic costs, which is super easy, you just increase allowables.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)The idea that a capitalist/corporate system will self destruct is inescapable. There are those who think we have to let it collapse so we can rebuild it from scratch. I had a friend who supported Nixon because he was sure that would bring on the revolution. Maybe it's taking longer than he thought.
I can't think of anything that Obama has done to relieve the wealth disparity, which he is about to campaign on. But Campaign Obama and President Obama are completely different people.
--imm
Dewey Finn
(176 posts)so you could share this "thought" here.
apples and oranges
(1,451 posts)in front of your fancy computer, you tell us we should let things go to hell or worse. How democratic/caring of you!
tridim
(45,358 posts)Who the hell did you vote for?
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Perhaps it is time to let it all go to hell and back."
...I read the same thing before the 2004 election. I don't think the four years following were worth it.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Under a minute max, right?
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)I'm thinking V for Vendetta or Watchmen rather than 21st century Germany.
I don't know if a die-off of the wealthmongers and/or their wholly corrupt and self-serving ways will lead us into progressivism this country desparately needs to adopt, but we cannot go on like this. Corporations and the wealthy are ruining every facet of America from stem to stern.
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)And you have every right to express it.
But you DO realize that not everyone shares that opinion per the current state of the nation, don't you?
Despite the constant doom-and-gloom posted here day after day, there ARE those who are satisfied with the present Administration's efforts on their behalf, and feel that we are indeed going in the right direction.
Not everyone has lost their home, or their job, or can't afford to raise their families. Some people are, unfortunately, in bad situations. But to read DU of late, you'd think the entire country was homeless and jobless, and ready to let everything around them crash and burn.
I'm not - and I doubt the vast majority of us are anywhere near that kind of thinking.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)And slowly but surely continuing to shrink.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Job-Approval-Center.aspx
No, not everyone has lost their home, or their job, or can't afford to raise their families. But a damn good sized portion of Americans have experience one or all of those scenarios, and sadly, the poverty rate continues to climb, the middle class continues to shrink, and there is no end in sight for this madness, since no real solution has been undertaken.
Nice to see that you can post from the security of a secure job and comfy life.
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)You don't know me, so your assumptions are just that - assumptions.
Would you agree that there is a vast difference between answering 'approve or disapprove' on a Gallup survey and saying "I think we should just let the whole system as we know it crash and burn"?
And I have to add this: I have seen many DUers saying that Gallup doesn't matter, or is grossly inaccurate, when they post survey results that show a high approval of Obama among liberal/progressive Democrats. But when Gallup numbers suit their purposes, it is suddenly trotted out as definitive proof of one thing or another.
I'm not saying that you, personally, have done so - but it is troubling when people cherry-pick the Gallup numbers that promote their personal agenda, while dismissing Gallup when results are not to their liking.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)with another DUer back in 2004. I though the idea was insane at the time.
Now, I am starting to see her point.
How does one take the band-aid off? Slowly?, or one quick rip...
Dewey Finn
(176 posts)You were right the first time.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)the 3 of O have enlightened me to the possible need for such radical action.
Dewey Finn
(176 posts)But no Arcadia lies at the other end of the "let it go to hell" scenario. It wouldn't work like that.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)that's defeatism
flobee1
(870 posts)will vote to do away with all the bribe money they receive?
or that corporations will suddenly get a soul and treat people fairly?
or that corp. owned media will report on news objectively and fairly even when it hurts the corp.?
We've already seen how the media portrays people that have had enough of all the above!
the bastards holding the cash don't care about how you feel. They don't care that you are angry. They don't care that you can no longer voice your opinion in public. They don't care that you worry yourself sick over how you will make it the next 2 months. They don't care that you lose sleep because budget cuts are coming your way.
MAKE THEM TAKE NOTICE!
MAKE THEM WORRY!
MAKE THEM LOSE SLEEP!
They don't care that we are peacefully asking them to change.
people are still not angry enough to CAUSE change
T S Justly
(884 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)People are justly angry at the administration for saying that this bill will be signed, but what about the Congress that passed this abomination in the first place?
No, this is not just the work of the GOP - we still have a Senate Dem majority.
I too am appalled, but let us not forget Congress. We need to vote a lot of people out and get legislators who have some instinct that their purpose is to represent the interests of the voters.
Just voting Democrat is no longer enough. We need to get to the primaries and scare the incumbents by making them fight like hell for their seats, and TELL THEM WHY. The way things are going, I can envision that we could get a Democratic Congress and Presidency and still keep going down the tubes, maybe faster.
The battle now is FOR the Democratic party, to keep it Democratic. My reservation about OWS is that I think it takes the heat off the primaries, where it should be.
patrice
(47,992 posts)for something-you-don't-know-what - AND - which, whatever you think it is, you can't guarantee.
I'll pass on this platform.
patrice
(47,992 posts)Why do you hate Human Rights?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)As I did, "the most important election of century" blandishments that arise every election.
ellisonz
(27,776 posts)Burn your own house down, not mine! 
Quantess
(27,630 posts):/
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)You attempt to take a privileged position that is by no means verifiable and by all appearance seems to be creating a race to the the bottom while constantly assimilating the positions we started out fighting.
Adopting an approach that is essentially managed entropy or essentially the "center" of last "generation" of Republicans aka like 12-16 years ago cross breed with the Clinton neoliberals, and the Bush era neocons had about a welk's chance in a supernova of anything better for us than a house fire with no insurance and a fire department that never comes. Probably with a house full of kids, working a day temp job with a couple payday loans on an overdrawn account.
ellisonz
(27,776 posts)Your first sentence could be turned around and be equally valid, and I'm not even sure what you're getting at in the second. What I do know is that George W. Bush was able to steal an election in Florida in 2000 because something like 90,000 Floridians voted for someone who was fundamentally wrong about the nature of the Democratic Party. 
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
LoZoccolo
(29,393 posts)
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I must applaud your most excellent quote.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)LoZoccolo
(29,393 posts)after the rules lax up and people find out how seldom they're going to be enforced, that all of a sudden MadHound has this "insight" which is over the line he's been just short of for years? Oh really?
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Same people crying that the jury system would oppress them, while they use it to oppress others with their majority-pro-defeatist opinion.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)That way, everyone can suffer, too.
Not a rational thought process.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)...is not agreeable.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)and I will do so again in 2012 
OBAMA 2012
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)downtown at the local occupation...
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
- K&R
'The Economics of Human Energy' in Brooks Adams, Ezra Pound, and Robert Theobald - by John Whiting, London University - http://www.whitings-writings.com/diatribes/ehe03.htm
MilesColtrane
(18,678 posts)And, if it doesn't "go back" from hell?
You make it sound like a given, like somebody remodeling their bathroom.
In reality, the birth of new nations and systems of government frequently entails blood being shed...lots of it, and much of it out of the bodies of innocent people.
And just as frequently, the rebuilding involves rounding up those who aren't on board with the new plan.
No thanks.
G_j
(40,567 posts)that you envision the possibility of saving something from the ashes. I doubt if I'll live to see it.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)
boppers
(16,588 posts)People willing to let things "go to hell", tend to have, in my opinion, an extremely limited set of experiences as to how hellish things can actually become.
DocMac
(1,628 posts)maximum misery, armies will appear on our shores to end that misery.
They would not miss the opportunity.
bhikkhu
(10,789 posts)It doesn't put more power in the hands of the president or the military, it really doesn't change anything. There are certainly real issues to work on, such as "the war" itself, but this bill is a little side-issue that changes nothing. It frustrates me to see people giving up in hair-on-fire angst and frustration over non-issues.
If you spend a little time reading the actual bill that passed, and think about it in the context of the conduct of the war under bush, and the conduct of the military in prior wars, you would see that this is a step towards "the norm" of how the military works, and a step away from the gloves-off secret-prison bush era.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I don't think it matters much whether we approve of the approaching cliff. Half of americans favor jumping off because they're too ignorant to realize how much those jagged rocks at the bottom will hurt. Eventually they'll win.
Robb
(39,665 posts)Is there a single time when attempts to accelerate decline did anything other than accelerate decline?
Yes, after rock bottom everything else looks like a big improvement. Is that the idea? Slam your hand in the car door a few times so the pain in your back is less noticeable?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Or are you ready to depend on some authoritarian neo-nazi madman and his band of ruthless indiscriminate killers for your survival?
I seriously don't want to go there. As someone that has lived in fairly remote areas, I can tell you that it takes an enormous amount of skill, knowledge, and preparation to survive when there are no goods and services available. Compound this with the possibility of having to fend off roving bands of hungry, armed and crazy RWers, and your probability of survival will totally depend on if the crazies see some usefulness for you.
You are always invited and welcome to join with Occupy, and together we can see what we can do to change the world peacefully before violent revolution becomes the only option to achieve democracy, equality, and justice that is left to us.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The oppression and hell that governs our lives won't even let us openly criticize it on an internet message forum...
I imagine many people believe that we should allow things to collapse, burn and devolve into some fanboy's hack-authored science fiction dystopia rather than allowing patience and trying to fix things.
For my own part, I perceive your scenario not merely as self-absorbed and short-sighted, but as rigid a piece of dogma as was ever received by the congregation of a televangelist.
bigmonkey
(1,798 posts)Everything will work out fine once it's all destroyed. Do you have any examples of this from history?
Ohio Joe
(21,897 posts)Why get active and do something when one can just vote teabagger and let it all go to hell... 
redqueen
(115,186 posts)How refreshing.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Its easy to start seeing things that way.
In 2008, the American People gave the Democratic Party:
*The White House
*A BIG Majority in The Senate
*A Filibuster Proof Majority in the Senate
And MOST Importantly,
*a HUGE MANDATE for "CHANGE"
and an ARMY Standing in the Streets.
[font size=5]Obama's Army, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]
It wasn't easy to Fuck Up ALL of THAT,
but they succeeded.
"It was ALL Joe Lieberman's fault!" 
Now, just like the scammers at a disreputable Carnival they are saying,
"Just give us MORE, and NEXT TIME, it'll be different."
Quick Death,
or a slower, more drawn out, prolonged Death.
Pick ONE,
because it doesn't look like the "system" offers another other choice!
Is "Fuck it ALL" a more viable third choice?
I really don't know the answer,
but I don't argue with those that believe that a Perfect Storm approaches.
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
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