"I don't tip."

[WilliamPitt]

Last edited Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:39 PM - Edit history (1)

http://ifyoucantaffordtotip.com/

[el_bryanto]

1. Indeed. I do tip based on performance, but generally try to tip generously.

I.e. decent perfromance gets the standard, good performance gets more, lousy service (making me wait 20 minutes for the check with the restaurant half empty, for example) gets somewhat less than the standard (but still some).

Bryant

[orleans]

39. out of curiosity, what *is* your "standard?" n/t

[el_bryanto]

46. 18% or thereabouts n/t

[upaloopa]

54. 20% is easier to calculate and many times the things that

you call poor service is not in the control of the serving person.
If a person gives poor service as a rule they wouldn't have a job for long.

[freshwest]

88. The last time I was at Denny's, there was ONE wait staff and ONE cook working there that day.

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:17 PM - Edit history (1)

The menu was large and complex, the dining room also large, and there is not one person to back up the wait staff. Their job is to make the salads, the drinks, show customers to their seat, ring them up, wash the dishes and prepare the table, clean up the table and floor and serve. And take the orders and see if the customers need anything. A shell of an operation that one might think had many employees working at a time. I haven't gone back but don't blame the help, more the management. They are not doing well.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

242. They're not?

I live in a state where eating is the primary pastime. They're doing plenty well here. Popping up like weeds at every turn.

[freshwest]

248. I've edited to be more specific. How is the Democratic party doing in your area?

OK can go blue since TX may go blue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10786538

[Floyd_Gondolli]

249. It's non existent

The Democratic party in Oklahoma is basically dead. Fundamentalist Christian ideologues are in complete control of the state legislature, supreme court and executive branch. There is not one single Dem holding statewide office (AG, Sec. of State, Insurance Commissioner, State Treasurer etc.) and not one Dem senator or congressman either.

I'm 40, and I don't expect to ever see another Democratic governor, senator or congressman elected here in my lifetime. I could live to be 150 and we'll never have medical marijuana here, let alone legalized mj. Hell, we can't even get decent beer here.

It's about as grim as it gets from a Democratic party perspective thanks in part to the complete ineptitude of the leadership of what's left of the state Democratic party.

[el_bryanto]

120. Yes - I worked in a restaurant before - so I am well aware of that

But when you have to flag the waitress down three times, and I count 2 people in her section (one of them being me) - that's something she should be able to control.

If it's busy I tend to be more forgiving.

Bryant

[upaloopa]

158. Could be she was told to wait so that you might

buy desert. I know that happens when the table isn't need in a hurry.
I give 20% all the time because I was a waiter and you can't live on that job alone and you have to pay income tax on 8% of the bill so they don't even keep my 20% and they have to pay the tax even if they don't get a tip. I think it creates good karma for them and me. It is part of being grateful for what I have and being generous and grateful keeps me there. Spread good vibes.

[GTurck]

229. Exactly...

my feelings. Glad that there are others who see tipping in such a generous way.

[Lordquinton]

138. Poor service is pretty much the rule these days

in any CS field, they don't have the time or energy to to give proper service when they get their funding slashed so the higher ups can line their pockets.

[Cosmocat]

234. Yeah, 2 times 10 percent

if your bill is $25, that is 2 x 2.50 or $5 ...

Quick and easy.

Small adjustments one way or another possible depending on attitude/tone/performance.

[pangaia]

188. 18%..WOW

Do you carry a calculator with you?

[eridani]

225. If you have a cell phone, you have a calculator

Most even have a separate app just for calculating tips. You just enter the bill and the percentage you want to tip.

[pangaia]

253. Not MY cell phone. :>)))

Net 10 cheapo....
humm.. actually maybe it does.. but I'd rather pay the 20%....

[TDale313]

2. Love it!

Thanks for posting this.

[backscatter712]

3. I tend to be both generous and forgiving when it comes to tipping.

I generally tip somewhere in the 20% range, and you have to be a real fuckup to not get that tip from me - the servers I know work damned hard. Sometimes, the cook screws up - not the server's fault, or the server's juggling too many tables because they're short-handed that day. I'm not going to dock from the tip over every little thing.

[Skittles]

133. one time a waiter forgave ME

I was cranky and impatient and asked my dinner companion, where's the fucking waiter? Of course he was right behind me. I said to him ruefully, "Obviously you weren't meant to hear that.....I normally tip 20% but today I will double that." He smiled at me broadly and said, "You're FORGIVEN!"

[Cirque du So-What]

4. And if you DO make this announcement before getting served

I highly recommend ordering a salad with the creamy ranch 'house dressing.'

[Phentex]

27. Oh you!

[The Wizard]

144. The taste of waiter spit

adds a certain.............

[OldDem2012]

154. Yikes! nt.

[enough]

5. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. That says it all. (nt)

[pennylane100]

40. and if you cannot pay minimum wage to your servers

you should not be in business. While I always tip if I get reasonable service and the better the service, the better the tip. However I resent the fact that employers are allowed to use tipping as an excuse to get cheap labor. I think some labor groups should challenge that law in the states that allow such a practice. Happily, California is not one of them.

[Jenoch]

79. Servers are all paid at least minimum wage

in Minnesota, by law. It has been my experience that experienced waitstaff are paid hourly wages that are quite a bit higher than minimum wage. This law is also why there are many national chains that do not operate in Minnesota.

[obama2terms]

132. In Tn.

Severs make an avg. of 2.13 per hour so they rely on the tips, which if more people knew that I'm sure more people would tip. I wasn't even aware of how little servers were paid until I went to work at a restaurant.

[jazzimov]

197. Yep, $2.13 hr. PLUS your income tax came out of that.

Often my payroll checks were less than $10. I have been out of the serving business for 20 years, but it was $2.13 20 yrs ago, too. Plus back then we were required to pay Federal income tax on 100% of our total CC tips or 8% of our Gross Sales, whichever was higher. Federal Law. I don't know what it is, now.

Which means that if you don't tip a server, it actually costs them money to wait on you.

[bottomofthehill]

314. 163 weeks with a void check

I spent 20 years in the restaurant business. At one point, I went 163 weeks(over three years) with void checks as the restaurant estimated ( rightfully so) that my tips were higher than the deductions they were able to take out of my check. The restaurant took out federal tax, state tax, social security, a meals and uniform fee. At 2.77 per hour, there was never a check to cash. The bright side was that I was making 500-600 dollars per week so the check was not what I was living on, the tips were. It was quite nice when I got work in a union hotel

[MessiahRp]

161. IN MN, but not most other places.

It ranges from $2-3 everywhere else. That's fucking horrible.

[Jenoch]

213. Of course I am aware that Minnesota

(and a few other states) are an exception to the rule, but that was not indicated in the graphic in the OP.

[mattclearing]

230. Win-win. n/t

[marble falls]

241. We are paid $2.13/hr and we are to make that rest of the minimum wage from our tips. What we don't..

make up to minimum the owner covers. I have worked at places where we are told to declare a certain amount to cover minimum wage whether we made it or not. This is to cover days we are cut for lack of business and spent three or four hours doing side work like scrubbing chairs or walls or storage for $2.13 an hour before being cut. If you can't afford to eat out, please don't.

[Jenoch]

247. I knew that the wages are bad for

servers in states without minimum wage laws, but I don't see how the owner can only pay servers $2.13/hour for work other than serving. I wonder what the laws in your state say about that? (FYI, I don't know why your last statement was directed at me. In none of my posts have I indicated that I have a problem with tips for servers.)

[Lordquinton]

142. CA represent!

These threads miss the point completely, it's not our duty to pay the staff, it's the employer's duty to pay them. I usually tip a bit extra because I usually stay long, or play card games or something not on the menu, plus it makes them like you, but it is so backwards and wrong to say it's my duty to pay the staff because their employers can't be bothered to do it. Also irritates me that people in some states assume it's universal and say I'm bad for only tipping 10% or some such.

I never spat in rude people's books when I worked at a book store, I treated everyone with a base line of respect regardless of how they treated me, and we were forbidden to receive tips.

This also completely shoots down that already worthless argument of the Libertarians that the minimum wage is what is keeping wages low, if it's lower, then the employers pay even less, we have solid proof in the restraunt business.

Also to add: If everyone who "couldn't afford to eat out" stopped eating out, then the waitstaff would probably end up unemployed.

[union_maid]

192. I don't think there's any state where it's 10%

Tipping is part of eating out. You are costing the server money if you don't leave a decent tip. They have to tip out to bus people, bartenders, hosts or hostesses and/or others, depending on the place, usually based on their sales, not their actual tips. They are also taxed based on their sales. Maybe it would be better if restaurants paid the money and tipping was eliminated. Maybe not. I've waited tables and I would never do it for what restauants would pay. It's a really tough job. And if you can't afford to tip, you really can't afford to eat out.

[Lordquinton]

252. "You are costing the server money"

No, the owner is costing them wages legally by not paying them the minimum (in some states). CA has them follow the same laws as every other business, so this whole conversation doesn't really apply here. "And if you can't afford to tip, you really can't afford to eat out." More like "If you can't afford to pay your workers, don't open a resteraunt"

[COcook]

264. Don't you get this?

I own two restaurants. If I had to pay my servers the Fed minimum wage, our labor costs would go up 37%. Labor being 20-25% of my total costs, guess what? Prices would go up about 15%, and that is just a rough guess, not figuring in my increased payroll taxes. So, your $10 plate of tacos just went up to $12. You cool with that?

[The Magistrate]

265. So What You Are Saying, Sir

Is that your own standard of living depends on depriving others of the value they create for you. That is what saying 'I cannot afford to pay more' means, when the pay you are handing over is sub-minimum, and the people who work for you are essentially dependent on the charity of your customers for the bulk of their income. You are saying that you cannot afford to pay your workers more, which actually means you would have to take less money for yourself if you paid them more. I believe the usual trope here is to cue the world's smallest violin....

[uppityperson]

267. Well and succinctly put TM.

[COcook]

269. You guys clearly don't get it

Tipping is the accepted system in the US. Why? Because it helps keep menu prices down. Tipped employees make MUCH more than the Fed minimum. The fact that I can pay them 4.79/hour keeps my food prices down, so more people can eat out more often, and more restaurants can survive, providing more jobs. I am depriving no one of anything. It is their choice to work for me, and they do it, gladly, and make much more than their friends working retail, etc. If there wasn't tipping, service would severely suffer, and server jobs would go unfilled, as their would be no motivation to run your ass off for five hours, instead of standing around at a retail job.

[The Magistrate]

271. We Understand Perfectly, Sir: You Live Off Others' Work, And Want as Much As You Can Grab From Them

If you were honest about being a grasping leech, people of good nature would have less of a problem with you, because it could at least be said you were an honest rogue, but as it is....

[COcook]

273. You can't get it.

You are not worth arguing with. I provide jobs to people who didn't have jobs. You make these assumptions about me without knowing a thing, and pretend to speak for everyone. You don't. There are many good people like me that own restaurants, and contribute to our communities, and to charity. What do you do? You must be perfect, right?

[William769]

274. What would Jesus do?

Ask yourself that question and you have your answer. He wasn't in it to make a buck off the downtrodden.

Have a nice day.

[COcook]

280. So.........

Any employer is making a buck off the downtrodden? Sooooooo, all employers are bad? As is capitalism, I guess. Back to the caves we go.
The idea is to make a buck so you can stay in business so people can have jobs. I am not sure why I have to explain this, but without the "making a buck" part, there are no jobs, and the downtrodden just got more downtrodden.

You do have a job, right? Were you downtrodden? What would you do without it? Does your employer make a profit? Do you resent your employer as much as you resent me?

How is the view from your Tower of Blind Idealism?

[uppityperson]

281. No, just those employers who take advantage of their employees by paying crap and making lots

Paying poor wages so you make more is wrong. I wonder what you think of the old slave days. Hey, at least they had a place to sleep and were fed, right?

[COcook]

285. Wow

You really don't get this. You don't get that businesses have to make money in order to stay in business? You compare me to a slave holder? You are a terribly judgmental person.
Jobs lift up the downtrodden. I would bet that some of my employees make more money than you. Because they work, hard, and earn it, and don't cry about stuff they clearly don't understand
I feel sorry for you. I stand for equality, always, fight for it, donate to it. Donate money I earned. It is sad that people like you feel like you can have your = sign, and still point your crooked fingers. You are sickening.

[uppityperson]

286. Yup, gets exercise by assuming and jumping to conclusions. Check!

[uppityperson]

290. I asked you what you thought of slavery. You may have compared yourself, but I simply asked

What you thought about that attitude. Get it? A question.

[William769]

282. I am retired.

I worked for the State in Law enforcement. I use to love my employer (Florida) until the jack asses took over.

Where would this world be without "Idealism" which in no way is the "Tower of Blind".

And just in case you need help with the understanding.

i·de·al·ism

/īˈdēəˌlizəm/

Noun

1.The practice of forming or pursuing ideals, esp. unrealistically: "the idealism of youth".
2.(in art or literature) The representation of things in ideal or idealized form.

I'm all for making a buck, but not at the expense of others. And thats your lesson for today.

[uppityperson]

278. Youn"provide jobs" yet refuse to pay even $7.25/hr. yup, the old "even crap job@shit wages is better

than no job" ploy. All the while pretending to care. At least be honest.

[ceonupe]

291. His employees make more than 7.25 per hour

By law if they don't he has to make up the diff.

But most of my friends who work wait jobs made more than the kids working at the mall/fast food. Also some jobs work on commission like car sales, real estate, high margin retail sales ect....

I don't crap on restaurant owners or wait staff my grandfather literally paid his way thru college while having a family living in the Durham, NC housing projects. He latter once a teacher went back to waiting tables to pay his way thru a masters program. For him it was the best way to earn extra money to support his family and his dreams. He became a principal. My mother became the first black female hygienist to graduate UNC and the 2nd to finish UNC Dental School. That waiting job and tips helped my grandfather set it all in motion.

So yeah wait staff is by law base pay of min wage if they don't bring in a min level of tips but vast majority make more

[uppityperson]

293. Yet his starting post was if he had to pay fed min wage it'd be impossible to stay in business.

[ceonupe]

294. Yeah if he

Had to pay them 7.25 instead of him paying $3-4 and the tips making up rest of compensation to waiters unless tips fell below and then he would have to cover the rest.

[The Magistrate]

287. Actually, Sir, You Have Simply Confessed You Have No Arguement

Perhaps a cool story, and a highly inflated idea of yourself and where you fit into the scheme of things, but no argument, and no chance of changing anyone's mind, particularly not the mind of anyone who understands how work and the world actually works.

The difference between what you pay your workers, and the amount of value they actually produce, is what you live on. Your endeavor is to get as great an increment of the value they produce into your own pocket as you possibly can. Again, it is not so much what you are trying to do, as the cant and dishonesty with which you present it, which offends the nostrils.

[COcook]

289. No argument?

The argument is that tips support servers, so restaurants can pay them less, so restaurants can charge less, and people can afford to eat out, and restaurants stay in business, and then provide jobs to servers.
If there was no tipping, prices would be higher. Please do a little research and check out the states without a tip credit. The prices are higher across the board, and the survival rate is lower. Jobs disappear when restaurants close.
The margins in a restaurant are very slim. If we make 10%, we are extremely happy. Yeah, of your $10 burger, we make a buck. It is one of the toughest businesses in the country.

You all like to attack anyone making a profit, without even the most basic understanding of the economics of the industry. Profits lead to jobs.

BTW, I worked my way up from a dishwasher, so I might have at least a basic idea of how it works. What do you do?

[uppityperson]

292. If bad wage + tip = good wage with no tip, the customer cost is the same.

If a customer will pay $10 for a plate, charge them that and make a no tipping policy. It will be the same amount in. Pay your workers a decent wage and they will work harder, stay longer which means better productivity and less turnover which means less cost to you.

Having worked in most areas of food service and being self employed, I have an idea how it works.

Ok, now you get to insult me again!

[BainsBane]

295. I find in interesting

That your point here is to defend yourself and other owners rather than telling folks they really need to tip, which is the point of the OP. I firmly believe anyone who goes out to eat has an obligation to tip. Not tipping is stealing, IMO. Yet you don't talk about the value the servers provide to the customers and why people should tip. You talk about how great you are for paying people $2 an hour and allowing them to get up to the whopping non-living wage of $11 an hour. There are different ways to approach this topic, and Democrats typically give some thought to others besides themselves.

How do you identify politically?

[COcook]

300. Defending myself

The ONLY reason I was defending myself is because I was being attacked for being a greedy person profiting off the sweat of others. I don't talk about how great I am for paying people $2 an hour. We pay $4.79, which is the law in CO. When you add in tips, my servers make between $15-25/hour. That is more than I make, that is for certain. I took the risk and started a business where there was none.
You are assuming that I only think of myself? What is up with everyone on this thread? You don't act like Progressives. You assume that I don't value my employees? Where did you get that? Don't you all see how ridiculous you sound, making terrible assumptions about someone because they own a business? I am not proud to be on your side right now.

I am a firm Democrat, hosted two Obama rallies. Contributed to marriage equality causes.

[BainsBane]

301. Why did you feel compelled to sign up just to defend yourself?

Your first posts were defending yourself. You asked if we'd be okay with paying $2 more for tacos. I said I'd be very okay with that and you never responded.

Your other post said your servers averaged $11 and obviously worked harder than members here who "complain" about things like the minimum wage or a living wage.
You also said "profits create jobs," which is a supply-side view of economics. Many on the left assert that demand creates jobs. All the profits in the world won't sell your tacos. If people can't afford to go out to eat, you can't make profits.
If profits created jobs, we'd be swimming in them now since big business profits are at record highs.

[COcook]

304. Profits

I wasn't defending myself, but my industry, and tipping as a whole.
Profits do create jobs. Of course they do. If I didn't make a profit, I wouldn't have a business, and then there would be no jobs here. Small businesses create jobs by making profits. I owned one restaurant, made profits, then opened another.
Demand comes from people with jobs. No jobs, no money, no demand, no tacos.

I am not Exxon/Mobil here. Small businesses are the motor of this economy.

Tipping works because it keeps prices lower, and creates incentive. If there was no tipping, and I paid everyone $7-10/hour, no one would want to bust their butts to sell more and make more tips. They would rather stand around texting at some retail job.

[BainsBane]

305. The principal is the same

If profits created jobs, unemployment would be very low now. Clearly that's not the case. You could not run your business without profit, but you would not have profit if consumers couldn't buy your food.

I don't have an argument with you on tipping. I regularly tip 20%. But the fact you aren't Exxon Mobile doesn't change how the economy functions.

[COcook]

308. Profits II

Yes it does.
My profits go back into the community. Anything I can clear, I spend locally. It is my income, and it is very, very low. Exxon doesn't go out and spend their money at the corner coffee shop or oil change place. Massive amounts are accumulated by the few. That is the glaring difference.
Profit is my reward for being good at what we do. If we didn't profit, there wouldn't be jobs. Without profitable businesses, we would not be who we are. There wouldn't be medicine, food, or transportation. There wouldn't be roads. Everything has to do with profits.

[BainsBane]

309. That's a fair point

But you and I are operating from two essentially different views of economic production: supply side vs. demand side.

Anyway, sorry to give you such a hard time. Welcome to DU and best of luck with your business.

[COcook]

312. Thank you

I don't think we are coming from opposite sides.
I can handle a hard time when it is polite and reasonable. I thank you for that.

I will stick around for awhile, I guess. It is either that or go wash dishes, and I am not super excited about that right now.

Peace to you.
C

[The Magistrate]

296. You Have No Argument, Sir, Indeed, You Concede Every Point

Your workers depend on charity from your customers. That your customers are decent people and understand you yourself do not pay your workers adequately hardly absolves you from the charge you do not provide adequate pay, or set at naught the statement of fact that your income is in good part comprised of the difference between an adequate wage for your workers and the wage you actually pay. Your claim about prices is nonesense, because when people go to a restaurant they expect to pay a tip to the servers, and count that into the cost of the meal, and come prepared to pay it, or else they do not come at all.

Your cant about 'profits lead to jobs' is stale, well past its best used by date. Again, you do not challenge the fact that profit is the difference between the value workers produce and the wage they are paid. You seem to take it for granted that someone should be positioned to take this difference himself, and that if he was not able to take this difference for himself, nothing would be done by anyone else. The absurdity of the claim is obvious, when it is stated plainly. The objection people have is the resolve of many in a position to do so to take so much that those who actually produce the value are driven to a subsistence level. That is what you are defending, and everyone here sees that very clearly.

[BainsBane]

266. Yes, I'm completely cool with that.

[uppityperson]

268. Making employees survive off the charity of YOUR business's customers so you can make more is

wrong. And please don't give us the "well at least they have some income rather than being on the dole" sort of crap.

Shame on you for not paying even the fed minimum wage.

[COcook]

270. Shame on me????

Where do you get off shaming me? You are the one that doesn't get how the system works. I provide jobs for 45+ people. They support other businesses. We collect about $165k in taxes for the community. Not one single employee makes less than $11/hour. I risked everything I had to start these businesses. They fail, and I am out my life's savings, plus about $175k in loans. I took a huge risk, opening in towns that needed a boost. Your screen name fits you.
If restaurants had to pay the full Fed wage, restaurants would go out of business, like has happened in OR, WA, and CA. Guess what happens then, Uppityperson? People lose their jobs. They go to work at WalMart and make much less, and spend less, and then guess what happens? More businesses go out of business.

Try to understand before you judge. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

[William769]

272. Clearly you have no Idea what your talking about.

If you can manage to get out of that bubble, theres a whole world out there waiting to be discovered.

[COcook]

275. Do you people just like to insult others w/o even trying to understand?

You know nothing about me. We actually donated money to the MN Vote No movement last year. I would have thought that someone with the = as their picture would at least seek first to understand, but I was wrong. You are just as judgmental as all the rest. Sad for you.

[William769]

277. I can't judge you on your actions I can't see.

I can only judge by what is in front of me.

If you say what you said you did, then good for you, but I fail to see how that is even relevant here.

No. I am not a person who works for tips, but I am a person who will fight for them to have a living wage.

[COcook]

283. Clearly you don't bother to read my posts

So why bother. My servers make at least $11/hour. Usually around $17. That is why we all tip. I am not going to go backwards and try to explain this. Please read some posts before passing your judgment.

[uppityperson]

284. So changing their salaries from$11/hr to $7.25 is a hardship for you, you'd have to raise prices?

Aside from the math (wtf), expecting employees to live on the charity of your customers while patting yourself on the back for "giving them jobs" is shameful.

[COcook]

297. math

That is funny. I said that wages would go from 4.79 to $7.25, which is the Fed Minimum Wage. Do you get it now?

You never answered me about your job, or what you do, or if you resent your employer for making money off of your blood and sweat? Do tell.

BTW, tipping is not charity. Millions live well off of tips. Is this whole argument stemming from the fact that you hate to tip?

[uppityperson]

299. Ah, you edited your first post 1/2 hr later. I told you my history and current current employment.

Tipping IS charity. Getting tips depends on the goodwill of others. Many places and countries have No Tipping policies and people live well on the waged paid by the employer.

You also wrote " not one single employee makes less than $11/hr" which is what I was responding to. My abject apologies for not going back to see if you'd edited any post before replying.

For curiosity's sake, who did you support last election for Pres?

[COcook]

302. Edited?

I changed the spelling of one word, and, for the life of me, I can't see your post listing what you do.

Your math is backwards. Might want to edit that.

There is no point arguing with you. You ignore what others write, and any sort of knowledge that is foreign to you. I am honestly thinking that many in this forum is just as bad as the Tea Party people that refuse to even consider another person's point. It is sad, really, and the main reason that this country can't find a middle ground. You all just assumed that I was some right-wing evil capitalist, when NOTHING could be further from the truth. How to we expect to gain ground and further our ideals when people like you are teetering on your soapbox, casting down your ill-informed judgments? I thought that this was going to be a place to exchange knowledge. People like you ruin it, and that is sad.

[uppityperson]

315. Oh, I agree that some " in this forum is just as bad as the Tea Party people that refuse to even..."

" in this forum is just as bad as the Tea Party people that refuse to even consider another person's point".

You continue to insult and complain that *I* am the one not considering another person's point. Done with you. You are sure you are right and I am, let's see, ignorant, ignore others, as bad as the tea party, refuse to consider another person's point, on a soapbox, ill informed, judgmental, etc. And then you complain I ruin DU for you.

Edited to add, to clear up some of your confusion. Post 292, since you seem unable to find it. Years in all sorts of capacities in food service, now self employed. I tip and I tip well. I wish people would be paid a living wage up front and not have to rely on the goodwill of customers to pay them.


And I am done with you. If someone honestly wanted a "discussion", I would be happy to continue but that does not seem the case.

[COcook]

318. You tip?

Even though you consider it charity?
Maybe this wouldn't have gotten so hostile if you wouldn't have attacked my integrity.

[BainsBane]

303. I actually agree that tipping is not charity

It's an obligation. It's part of the cost of the meal.

[uppityperson]

276. You pay $11/hr, fed min wage is $7.25/hr! You can't afford to pay fed minwage?

And yes, shame on you for pulling the "any job at cheap ass wages is better than no job" ploy.

And ooooooooooooo, you mock my username? Oooooooooo, what a guy. You clearlybget you exercise by assuming and jmping to conclusions while living off the labor of others while demanding they live on the charity of " your" customers.

Ooooooooooooooooooo.

[femmedem]

298. I'm putting on my asbestos undies and coming to your defense.

I've been a server. I made more than the owner when I counted my tips, although my base pay was less than minimum. In fact the owner worked long hours seven days a week and made nothing. Nothing! If she'd paid her servers more while every other restaurant didn't, her prices would have been higher than theirs and she would have lost money fast.

If people want to raise the minimum wage for servers up to standard minimum wage and make tipping less important, that's fine. People would get used to it, and the playing field would be level. But this piling on a new DUer because he or she pays the prevailing wage is vicious and wrong headed.

[COcook]

306. Thank you

I love how Uppity just assumes that I am a man. More assumptions from this champion of equality.

I don't make nothing, but after I pay my loans, I have nothing. I eat every meal at the restaurants. I live in a room above the restaurant. I walk my dogs and work. That is my life. I am not complaining, though. I chose this life.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Agschmid]

310. I'd encourage you to give DU another go... this was a somewhat contentious issue.

Make sure you do read the TOS and rules for forums but other than that... dive in.

[COcook]

311. Thanks

I just can't stand when people believe they know everything and can't even consider what others are saying. Isn't that what we have the Tea Party for?

[Agschmid]

313. Well to be fair it happens on both sides.

[uppityperson]

316. "he" is standard default position for much of English language.

My apologies for your false assumption I assume you were a man.

[Agschmid]

307. He does pay the FED "tipped" min wage...

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage to covered, nonexempt employees. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

I don't agree with the whole system but that was an un-researched call out.

[uppityperson]

317. Thank you for sharing that piece of information. I appreciate your taking time to do so.

ETA, fwiw, he started this whole thing by saying he didn't pay fed minimum wage. THAT was what I was replying to.

[alphafemale]

201. If the servers were paid a decent wage the cost of the meal would rise accordingly.

People that said they "couldn't afford" to tip, maybe REALLY couldn't afford to eat out.

At least they won't be ripping people offf.

[Ed Suspicious]

218. yes!

[Sgent]

237. Its federal law

and written into the minimum wage law.

Tipped employees hourly wage + tips must be >= minimum wage over the course of a week; however, most restaurants I know of would fire you if they had to come up with more than $2.13 due to tips being low.

[CalFresh]

6. Mr Pink

doesn't tip.

[thelordofhell]

15. Cue The Video

[Initech]

99. Ha that's the first thing I thought of!

[MrSlayer]

223. 8 dudes had breakfast, $7 tip.

All of them are cheapskates. Joe's a millionaire gangster, Nice Guy Eddie is his son, the rest of them are professional high end thieves and no one drops a ten or a twenty on the table?

Cheap pricks. Real gangsters overtip.

[Lucky Luciano]

83. I was hoping that would be here!

[Gormy Cuss]

7. I have a moral objection to tipping

as the excuse for paying workers subminimum wage. I look forward to the day when I can tip only to acknowledge good service rather than to fill in the wages for the cheapskate employers.

[backscatter712]

53. In most of the rest of the civilized world, servers get paid a decent wage, and people don't tip.

However, because we live in the Land of Freedumb, our servers get shit wages, so yeah, I feel obligated to throw in generous tips.

[riqster]

103. I tip in every country I visit

That's how I was raised.

[backscatter712]

107. YMMV depending on the country.

Australian servers don't accept tips, and their servers get paid much better. They consider the whole idea of tipping to be gauche.

[riqster]

110. I check cultural mores before I go

If I were to travel to such a place, I'd abide by the local rules. So far, I haven't been in that situation.

[backscatter712]

112. Good to be safe. Nobody here wants to be Mr. Pink.

[riqster]

115. Oh, and by the way, which one's Pink?

[backscatter712]

116. The guy that said he doesn't tip.

[d_r]

128. the one riding the gravy train

[riqster]

130. The name of the game nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

169. Syd

[reflection]

235. Ah... wonderful reference. Thank you. n/t

[WinstonSmith4740]

204. Smart decision.

Both my late husband and I worked in the service industry, and as any waiter can tell you, the best tippers are other waiters, bartenders, etc. And the fussy, demanding customers were the worst. But when we were in Tahiti (too many years ago!)we were told that if you tip you're actually insulting the waiter. It felt weird, but "when in Rome..." People really need to find out what the local customs are.

[Violet_Crumble]

260. They do accept tips, they just don't expect them...

Every now and again people will pop up in the comments section of an article about hospitality in the Sydney Morning Herald and try to tell everyone reading that tipping is now a customary thing, we should do it if we get good service, it's one of those American customs that have taken root here, blah blah lie blah bullshit blah. Yeah, right. I've never tipped and never will. If I go to the US I'll tip because I know people in hospitality don't earn much, but I still have an issue with subsidising wages because employers are allowed to get away with paying them shit wages.

But I'll never tip in Australia. Well, except on the American cruise ship I'm going on next month when it heads up north from Sydney. I guess I have to do the tipping thing then. But I'm going to be grumbly about it! And get all angsty and indecisive about how much is too much or too little!

I hate tipping....

[Bonobo]

212. In Japan, they wouldn't take your money. nt

[riqster]

231. Good to know! nt

[Cheviteau]

239. You are correct.

And never ask someone for a business card if one is not offered. It's considered an insult to do so. At least that was true years ago...things may have changed in these more modern times.

[mwooldri]

109. One reason why Brits may be disliked by wait-staff in restaurants.

Where servers are indeed paid minimum wage, gratuity is built into the bill for large parties, and it's acceptable to leave a £1 coin as a tip. The USA has $1 coins but they're still not commonplace, so some Brits tip 25 cents.

For me, it gets personal - we go to a restaurant fairly often and we are often served by the same people. It's almost like family. We know that the restaurant owner is paying less than minimum, so the "girls" (as they are called at this restaurant) are really working for tips. Hence I make sure they are tipped well - not only for the good service but also because this working for tips business gets my goat.

[Cleita]

126. Having served a lot of Brits back in the day in a fish and chips pub style shop I worked in, I

got savvy to how they tip. They always want to buy you a drink. Of course, I never accepted because I couldn't drink on the job. It took another Brit to clue me in.

She said, "You take the money and tell them you will have the drink later."

Problem solved. It's a matter of figuring out the customary way of doing it.

[nenagh]

76. I tip...because I like to...

Hopefully it makes someone's day a little brighter...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

85. I would like to see both minimum wage pay (at the very least)....

....and a continuation of tipping. I recognize how hard a job food service is, even if someone didn't give me exactly standout service.

[Gormy Cuss]

105. That's the thing though -- you're tipping as a reward, not as a pseudo-employer.

I live in a state where servers get the standard minimum wage. They still average between 15-20% tips, with some making much more.
The whole idea that servers need the incentive in order to provide good service is just garbage. Subminimums are for the benefit of employers.

[laundry_queen]

123. Exactly.

I live in a place where servers must be paid minimum wage and most get $2-3/hr more than that to start....people still tip around 15-20%.

[Iggo]

184. I look forward to that day, too.

And until then, I tip generously or I stay home.

[Mass]

8. I tip, because this is part of the waitstaff's earnings

but I object to the principle of tipping. People should be paid by their employers and the costs should be repercuted in prices announced to customers. Otherwise, why not tip teachers, doctors, ..., all of which provide services to the public.

[ZombieHorde]

9. I always tip, but if I received poor service, then I wouldn't.

I always receive good service though, so this hasn't been an issue.

[LiberalEsto]

10. One of my daughters started waitressing again recently

at a Ruby Tuesday in the local mall. She's received $2 tips on a $45 order, been stiffed entirely a couple of times, and noticed that people are tipping less than when she last worked as a waitress.

She lives with us and is struggling to save money to buy a small house with her boyfriend, but at this rate she will need a couple more part-time jobs in order to have anything to save.

Thank you for posting this, Will.

[frylock]

11. i always tip 20%+..

unless the service is positively awful. I've never walked out without leaving something, however.

[pennylane100]

44. I hate it when the service is really awful,

the server is rude and impatient but suddenly turns on the charm when giving you the bill. I was so mad when this happened to me, I left a nickel on the plate just so she got the message.

[Cleita]

58. What you do is complain to the management. Usually, it will get you a free comp meal,

and the server will be either retrained or fired if not suitable for the job. If you can't get satisfaction that way, then don't patronize that place anymore because the dickheadedness starts at the top.

[frylock]

71. i'm usually willing to cut the server some slack, knowing how overworked they can be..

if they're especially rude or obviously slacking, then that of course is a different scenario. as mentioned, a word to management is often the best course of action.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

114. Yeah, it sucks

I'm always pleasant to waitstaff, because hell, they can spit in your food or worse if you're not....but a few years ago we made the mistake of going to Applebees (I know, last time) and got a girl who could not give a fuck (yet was pleasant the whole time) that she disappeared for twenty minutes at time, brought the wrong orders, was seen talking on the phone during her vanishing acts, etc. We had people next to us who actually had to get up and locate her to get some drinks. She got exactly one dollar, as a symbol that we didn't forget, but she just sucked.

[Auggie]

146. I also leave about 20%+

In most instances it's just a dollar or two more if I'm dining alone. That's not going to kill anyone.

[upaloopa]

57. And her income tax is based on the assumption she

Got tips.

[Cleita]

81. Yep, and that's the law. She must pay taxes on 8% of the gross sales on

her tickets whether she got the tip or not.

[indie9197]

118. I didnt know that!

That doesnt seem right since tipping is not REQUIRED. Damn IRS!

[Gormy Cuss]

119. Not exactly

If she keeps a tip diary every shift and can demonstrate that the average tips received fall below that level she may use the actual tips instead. However, it takes knowledge of the law and the time and energy to document tips and deal with the IRS, which is why for practical purposes most servers just eat the loss.

[Cleita]

122. That's only if the employer allows it. I have done payroll for several employers and

usually it's easier for them to total the tickets for each server, figure in the 8% and then take the taxes out then. It takes less bookkeeping time. It's also what will show up on their W-2 form. It's very hard to fight the IRS on this once the quarterly 941 form P/R reports are filed.

[Sgent]

238. The 8% is not a safe harbor

it is a a red flag for audit purposes.

If the IRS audits the employer, and the employer doesn't keep a tip log, they will look at average tips on credit cards and assume all sales / tips are that percentage, then charge FICA based on that.

The 8% rule was never a safe harbor, it was a "if we see below that we automatically assume your hiding assets".

If an employee turns in a tip amount greater than that, you better damn well report more than 8% in the paycheck.

[Cleita]

246. Oh sure the employees need to turn in their tips and I believe there is a law passed about ten years

ago that makes the employer liable to fines if he doesn't pay the FICA on those tips. However, most employees don't turn in more than 8%, it has been my experience, but the employer must still take the taxes on that amount. How much better would it be for everyone if the tip were added to the bill? No auditing problems there for everyone.

[jazzimov]

199. Yeah, right. I had a co-worker that tried that.

Of course, he was audited. Before the audit, he was confident because he had his tip journal, although it was faked. After the audit, he refused to talk about it but started picking up shifts like crazy. It got to the point that it affected his health, and he got sick. When I told him one night that he needed to go home and take care of himself, he freaked out! He started screaming "I can't afford to get sick! You don't understand, they're going to take everything I own!"

So the tip journal idea doesn't work.

[JimDandy]

203. Sounds like FAKING a tip journal doesn't work

and he got caught at it. That said, it seems it might be easier these days to keep track of tips since a large percentage of a waitresses tips are now paid using debit and credit cards. When I was a waitress, it was in the days just before debit cards, so tips were mostly in cash or sometimes added on to a check. Luckily I lived in WA state then, a state where waitresses were required to be paid minimum wage, so we always had a decent base salary.

[kyeshinka]

64. Really?

Been stiffed, as in not paying the bill? In some states, that's an aggravated misdemeanor, or theft. It should be punishable by an arrest anywhere. Once a group of us got seriously drunk at a bar in Indiana and didn't pay. I walked back and humbly paid the $140 bill and was tersely thanked after being told the cops were on their way.

[Fumesucker]

102. No, being stiffed as in no tip, there is no legal requirement to tip

[OriginalGeek]

136. I like Ruby Tuesday

They have a kick-ass deal on happy hour fish and shrimp tacos. I like them enough that I get them when it's not happy hour too.

I don't know which one your daughter works at but if she's ever waited on my wife and I she got a good tip from us. Never less than 20% and usually a little more. (We're in Orlando but I've been to RTs from South Carolina to south Florida.)

[LiberalEsto]

143. Gaithersburg MD

We've seen a number of restaurants close in the past year or two. I guess struggling middle-class families can't afford to dine out as often as they used to. We rarely eat out ourselves.

[OriginalGeek]

151. Nope

haven't been to that one. But I was in Baltimore in 2011 for a music festival. And in 2010 and 2009. I can't afford to go to them anymore either.

Eating out used to be a once or twice a week thing but now we're lucky if we can go once or twice a month and then it's often to a lot cheaper places than we used to go. Ah well...it's making my learn how to cook (my wife thinks that's a swell idea anyway.) I've been getting into it enough that i now want to get a gas stove. lol

[Cleita]

12. Having worked in the restaurant business in various capacities, on and off, during

the years, I believe gratuities should be included in the bill as a service charge. Cruise ships do it as do vacation clubs like Club Med. It works quite well and the cheapskates pay their fair share. If you really like your server, you can add extra but at least the worker is not stiffed for the work they do and have to pay taxes on regardless as to whether they received a tip or not.

Flame away.

[steve2470]

14. agreed ! nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

17. I'm not going to flame you, but I will say that if you're going to automatically add

the gratuity, why not simply pay a fair wage in the first place and get rid of the automatic tip? That way the employee is fairly compensated, and service above and beyond can always be acknowledged with an actual tip. It seems stupid to put in the mandatory gratuity - just charge me the cost for everything, including a fair wage, and I'll tip over and above as I see fit.

[Cleita]

25. Because of the way the restaurant business works and how the income tax is structured.

If you have a slow day and a server takes in only $50, the restaurant still has to pay, in theory, minimum wage to the server, cook and any one else involved in serving those customers. So sometimes the whole day's take will be barely enough to pay the help if that much. If you tip 20% or $10, the server usually has to share with a bartender and bus boy. Yet, she will be taxed on $4 or 8% of the bill of that whether she gets a tip it or not. If you have a busy meal period, lunch or dinner and let's say, and the same server takes in $300.00, the restaurant still only pays the same minimum wage to those involved in preparing and serving the meal and drinks and so will take in enough to pay rent, suppliers, taxes and licenses and maybe make a profit. So if 20% of the $300.00 is taken in tips or $60.00, and the tips are shared with other workers, both the server and the restaurant come out ahead. But if the server is stiffed and maybe only takes in another $10 in tips, she will end up paying taxes on earnings of $24 that she didn't get because taxes are calculated on 8% the $300.00 not the actual gratuity received. I don't know if this makes it clearer, but it's how it works.

By your method, your meal would probably cost two to three times more so that the restaurant owner could meet the expenses of paying their help during both slow and busy periods, which also tend to be seasonal as well as other factors. Also, be assured that the cheap tippers are the same guys who don't want to pay their fair share of taxes, so they will not feel any need to tip no matter how excellent the service or the meal, so those guys need to understand the basic economics of the situation.

[WilliamPitt]

26. "the restaurant still has to pay, in theory, minimum wage to the server"

Every server I know in Massachusetts - and I know a bunch - makes $2.65 an hour.

That's the case in many other states.

[Cleita]

30. And they should be getting minimum wage IMHO. Somewhere, the laws got changed to

favor the boss and not the worker. Still if they make good tips, it doesn't hurt them. So I propose making sure that they get at least 15% of the bill in tips to be added to the bill. The server will be paying taxes on 8% of that and the rest is shared among other workers who have to also pay a percentage of the take. So at least let them take home the money they pay taxes on.

[4 t 4]

177. what even made you start this topic? I don't get where your going!

[WilliamPitt]

190. "you're"

Try harder.

[SwissTony]

31. Minimum wage works in many countries.

Yeah, there are slow days and there are days when wait staff are run off their feet.

[Cleita]

33. Your point?

I'm not disagreeing with you. Workers should get minimum wage, but they should also have assurance that they will be tipped for the amount they will be taxed for.

[SwissTony]

35. Sometimes the restaurant owner loses, sometime (s)he wins. (n/t)

[Cleita]

42. The restaurant owner only loses when he doesn't know how to run the

business, both during good and bad times. When he can't pay his help, then he needs to go back to the drawing board to figure out where things aren't working. I ran a restaurant for ten years during a time when we were going through several recessions, several changes in wage laws and tax laws, and large swings in the cost of product. We had our slow times and busy times and I had to get the spread sheets out daily to map out business strategy. I left when the owner sold the business and from talking to the new owner, I figured out he was an idiot and wouldn't listen to me. He bombed after six months, sold to another owner and another owner, until one came in who knew what he was doing. I had moved on by then.

[SwissTony]

73. Fair enough. I confess to never having worked in the catering business...

I agree that incompetent owners are a pain in the proverbial. My favourite ever restaurant (Brighton, South Australia) went bust after it was sold to an idiot. He initially had the same staff but wanted to make "improvements". As a result, the chef (who was a magician) and most of the wait staff left quickly. I stopped there once on my way home from work to make a booking (I liked to make bookings personally as the staff were super friendly and knew all the regulars, but I hadn't been for a month or two) to find a print shop there.

I don't think I ever even knew the name of the place. It was "'Something' Drum". It was the Chinese on the corner of Brighton Road and Oakland Road. It was brilliant.

I'm getting all nostalgic now.

[union_maid]

196. I've waited tables

Would never do it for minimum wage. It's way too hard. I have a job with lots of responsibility now and while I don't make a lot of money it's certainly not minimum wage. My worst days on this job are a pleasure compared with the best days I had as a server way back when.

[Sheldon Cooper]

37. Well, if I'm catering a luncheon for, say, 100 people,

and the cost/plate is $10, why not just charge me $11.80/plate? The server(s)automatically get their tip, the restaurant gets a cut for overhead, and, if I'm so inclined, I can slip them an extra $40-50 as I leave. The server will make out better by my method, because I will always leave something extra for them, even if there is an automatic gratuity involved. There are others who will only pay the mandated gratuity, and there's nothing wrong with that, but this way the pricing is more upfront and it's kind of a win-win for the wait staff.

Edited to add: I thought you specifically mentioned an automatic gratuity of 18% in your post, and I see now that you didn't mention a specific amount. I don't know where I got that figure from, but my point still stands.

[Cleita]

48. That would work. You would have to make sure that whoever is doing your payroll

gets the concept and that you won't sink into greed and stiff the server. When the gratuity is added on, an employee and auditor can see it right away. A dishonest restaurant owner might keep the money themselves and the server wouldn't be any the wiser. Also catering is a different animal. It's not like you are opening your doors hoping someone will come in. You already know how many you are serving, what you will be paid and what you have to pay out.

[Sheldon Cooper]

104. You bring up good points.

I don't know how people who steal from the servers can sleep at night. Jerks. And you are right - the catering scenario is different than the average restaurant dining traffic. It's just easier to tack it on to the total bill at the end.

[MrModerate]

175. Naah. A properly managed restaurant . . .

Is not going to be endangered by a slow day — unless things in the local or macro economy are suppressing restaurant patronage.

Lots of countries simply require employers to pay their staff a living wage (simplifying the tax issue), and — while restaurant prices are higher — they're not two or three times. In Australia, where I live, restaurant meals trend 20-30% higher than US equivalents, curiously, about the same as what you'd add if you tipped.

How does that work, one wonders . . .

(And to be fair, Australia has a sane method of paying for healthcare, which shifts the burden from the employer to the citizenry as a whole.)

[Cleita]

182. I agree about the healthcare. Here most restaurants will deduct health care from the servers' wages.

Top chefs and managers might get it as a benefit paid for by the company. You actually do what I suggested except that you include the gratuity in the price of the meal instead of adding it on. Whether the server gets the whole wage or the shop does, I dunno. I would have to audit your books to determine who is really making out there.

Well, now you explained to me why you guys are such lousy tippers. When I worked as a bartender at a British pub, I usually served the Aussies last because I knew I wouldn't be getting a tip.

[Cleita]

50. It's actually harder than you might think.

I once conscripted my architect husband into helping me when I was short staffed one Sunday and he couldn't keep the pace. He got all the orders screwed up because he couldn't remember who wanted what.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

129. I've worked as a concrete laborer, built houses, remodeled houses and painted houses.

All pretty tough jobs.

I don't think I could hack waiting tables in a busy restaurant.

We always tip 20% after tax and round up. All my friends do - they wouldn't be friends if they skimped waitstaff. They might be my republican in-laws but that's as close as they get.

[union_maid]

195. I've waited tables

It was by far the hardest and most stressful line of work I've ever been in. I hated it with every fiber of my being. On the other hand, I was in the best physical shape of my life when I was doing that.

[backscatter712]

56. I'll bet the cruise ships did that after hosting the Southern Baptist Judgmentalism Convention.

Fundies truly are the worst tippers - you should see what servers make on Sunday lunch after the Jesus freaks get out of church.

Often, they don't get tipped at all, they get shit like this instead...

[Cleita]

62. Also, Republican politicians and their followers.

I worked at a place, that used to get patronized by the campaign workers for Bob Dornan way back when he was running for office in West Los Angeles. These were the cheapest and most unpleasant people who demanded everything. When he moved to Orange County, me and my co-workers all breathed a sigh of good riddance.

[MurrayDelph]

67. Not a flame, but I disagree

I have had too many experiences where the tip is automatically included and ended up with service that did not deserve it.

I have also tipped anywhere from 10 to 90% depending on service (admittedly the higher percentage was typically for a drink order that received excellent service, i.e., when I would be out with friends, order a soda and kept getting refills).

My typical percentage is 15% of total (including taxes) rounded up to the next dollar.

And, when I ran a restaurant, my employees received the state mandated minimum wage of $8.80/hour PLUS tips.

[Cleita]

77. What kind of service do you want?

Remember the server is waiting on several tables besides yours. If you don't feel the service is adequate, speak to the manager, but don't stiff the server. It may be someone didn't show up to work and she is waiting on seven or eight tables instead of five. Maybe the kitchen is understaffed so there is a delay in getting the orders out in a timely fashion. There are a lot of reasons why service may not be up to your standards, but really you should ask yourself if your standards aren't a little out there depending on what kind of place you are patronizing, but always speak to the manager or the person on the cash register to make a complaint. Don't take it out on the help.

[maggiesfarmer]

156. I'm OK with that, but don't call it a "gratuity". Call it "subsidizing the server's pay"

definition

[Cleita]

157. Actually, more accurately it's a service charge. Just like on your plumbing bill or

car repair invoice you get a service or labor charge. Gratuity is a term used in the industry, but things can change if you change the dialogue.

[maggiesfarmer]

164. yes, 'service charge' is accurate and conventional

[steve2470]

13. k&r nt

[Go Vols]

18. Hell,

I even tip the kid at the grocery store that puts my food in the car for me.

[kentauros]

65. This brings up something I've always wondered:

how much do you tip someone like the bellboy or grocery helper? Is it a percentage, or a flat rate of a few bucks?

[DollarBillHines]

86. A dollar per bag (or ice bucket or whatever)

At the hotels where I frequently stay, I pay $10 per room trip (Bellman) and $10 a day for housekeeping.

[kentauros]

87. Thank you!

Obviously, I don't travel much, or would have looked that up, but it's good to know for future reference (and to get the image of only a five-dollar bill outta my head)

[DollarBillHines]

93. As I posted below.

If you frequent the same hotel(s), the best bar trick in the world are the tips you left on previous stays. I love to go into the crowded bar at the Ellis in Atlanta and a Manhattan magically appears.

[kentauros]

96. Yes, that's a nice bar trick!

And as I told another DUer somewhere in this thread, they remember you as a good customer when you tip well, and not just because you have some money to share

[In_The_Wind]

19. I always tip.

[kentauros]

69. Even when I've been unemployed and eating out

(hey, I'm frugal! or maybe it's because I'm single, live alone and am not a big spender) I still tip generously. It wouldn't matter to me if the servers were being paid a living wage, either. I'd still tip at least 20%

[In_The_Wind]

74. G.M.T.A.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. I worked my way through college on tips: I tip 20% REGARDLESS of performance

I just consider it my share of the wage.

Best tipping story: there was this guy out on a date - it wasn't the first date, but was maybe date 3. Mid-to-late 30's. In any case, he's sour faced the whole meal. He got good service, even though we were busy and he was being a bit of a dick. So, the bill comes to something like $46.35 (they didn't get drinks - I remember), and the guy gives me two $20s and a $10 in the bill holder. Jeez, what a cheap fuck, I think, as I go to the register, hand over the money, collect the change, and put it in my pocket. I go out to smoke a cigarette as we hit a break in the action.

Then one of the other waitstaff comes outside and she says Table 1 is asking for you. What? They're still here? Yeah, she says. He wants his change. I bring the dude back his $3.65, and he's hopping mad. I "humiliated him" in front of his date.

Whatever, dude. He did the thing where he left me a penny in the bill holder. We all rolled our eyes, and the owner essentially banned the guy from the restaurant.

[Phentex]

24. You should always take the change back...

and never assume you should keep it and never say "Do you need change?"

I make a point of saying I don't need change but some people don't think about it until after the change comes back.

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. I know, I know

I was in the wrong. Still, it was kinda funny.

I hadn't been working there that long at the time. I also remember that he made some gesture that signalled to me that I should keep the change, like some wave of the hand, or something. After this incident, I always just brought the change back. We all learn some way.

[Phentex]

36. Sounds like an ass anyway...

I just do not understand the mentality that some people have thinking they can treat servers like crap. They have got to be insecure people!

[msongs]

68. you kept money that was not yours and you blame the customer for being bad? wow nt

[bobclark86]

140. If I can't afford a tip...

I do carry-out at McDonalds. I don't bank on having bad service when I go out to eat.

BTW, guys who don't tip on dates are, well, stupid. Why? Simple: You screw the wait staff, you probably won't screw your date . I've learned from experience that being a good tipper will let you more than "just tip her."

I'm on a ROLL today!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

21. The entire system is backasswards...

T I P stands for To Insure Performance (or Promptness) Tips should be given before service. If you generously tip the bellboy when you check into any hotel, the word gets around and your stay will be much more pleasant as everyone tries to earn a good tip for themselves.

In a perfect world every restaurant would pay a decent wage and would add a gratuity to the bill...then the cheapskates could just stay home... or eat at Burger King.

[Bicoastal]

59. T-I-P stands for nothing.

Snopes.com and the Oxford English Dictionary both agree that this is an urban legend. The word "Tip" dates back several centuries, before acronyms were ever used in this manner.

This is not to say your opinion is wrong, and you may have a point. But "To Insure Promptness" is as phony as the story about the FIAT being short for "Fix It Again, Tony/"

[Sekhmets Daughter]

63. Thanks for the correction.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

84. That's NOT what Fiat stands for?

Having owned one, I could have sworn that was the case!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

134. You mean like Found On the Road Dead? Fix Or Repair Daily?

[eridani]

226. Can Hear Every Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips

Old Ladies Driving Slowly Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Everywhere
Oh Look Dammit! Some Massive Oil Burning Idiot's Leaking Everywhere
Old Loose Dented Sheet Metal Outdated By Infamies Like Edsels
Pulled Over Regularly So Cops Have Enough
Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere
How Odd! No Damned Acceleration

[AverageJoe90]

227. Somebody needs to make one up for Hyundai, IMO.

.

[eridani]

259. Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

256. Those are funny!!! You must be a gearhead.

One of those folks with pinups from Car & Driver???

My sister once had a Pontiac GTO and we said that stood for "Gas, Tires & Oil".



Like the guy in college who had a new issue of Car & Driver & said "Have you seen the new Mercedes Benz GT??? Curb weight 22,000 pounds"?

"No. What's that?"

"GT stands for Garbage Truck"


The people who test drove anything that moved, including the Budweiser Clydesdales.

[eridani]

258. Plan On Numerous Trips In Another Car

More of a collector of jokes and parodies. My arthritis has gotten so bad (and automotive electronics so complex) that I've pretty much had to stop being a backyard mechanic.

I have a six page list of my collection--PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you.

[DollarBillHines]

89. Agreed, on the hotel thing.

At the hotels where I most frequently stay, the entire staff knows me by name.

I treat them with respect and I tip everyone, including desk staff.

Makes a huge difference in a crowded bar, especially if I am hosting business associates. The best bar trick is the tips you left on your prior stays.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

91. Yep...

And it never hurts in a new place to wait until the second round to start a tab!

[DollarBillHines]

94. Amen...

It'll get you a better pour on a decent bourbon, too.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

97. LOL

Still loving the Elmer T.

[white_wolf]

139. This whole sub-thread is making me want a drink. n.t

[Sekhmets Daughter]

167. Excuse me?

[white_wolf]

168. I was just making a joke based on all the bar comments. It wasn't very good. Sorry. nt

[Sekhmets Daughter]

170. There was a time I would have recognized it as a joke, immediately...

but DU has become a bit more 'hostile'. I'm glad I thought that it was a 'possibility' and asked for clarification before biting off your head.

[Phentex]

22. I need to print this for a friend of mine...

I don't remember when she decided tipping was stupid. She will still tip but she is very cheap about it and she has become more and more demanding of the service. The rest of us over tip to make up for her. Sometimes she's in a good mood and will make a point of telling us she's tipping 15%.

[mfcorey1]

23. I always tip. My objection is that when I give a tip to my waitress for the excellent

service, she has to turn it in and it is split with someone I did not encounter during my meal at the restaurant. I want the person that I gave it to, to keep it.

[Cleita]

34. So the bartender who made your drink and the busboy who cleaned up the table

before you got there and after, which enabled your server to give you excellent service, shouldn't share for the work they did for you?

[hatrack]

135. I understand your point, but that's not how it works

I worked a l-o-n-g time waiting tables (through university, actually) and the only people who don't get tipped from the tips the waiters and waitresses bring in are the managers, line cooks and dishwashers.

All the people who make it happen in the front of the house are all making the same shitty sub-minimum wage, and they all share what they earn to make it happen.

[mfcorey1]

137. That makes it clearer for me. Thanks!

[lame54]

28. I haven't tipped since my circumcision

[WilliamPitt]

29. . . . . . . .

[kentauros]

78. They are probably smiling at you, though,

because they know you're a good customer. That helps them as much as the extra cash

[smirkymonkey]

189. I always tip at least 20%. Especially since I go to a number of restaruants regularly.

Even when I just get take out I tip 20%. I know that when I am a return customer, they remember me and reward me with good service. That is not the reason I do it, I know what it is like to be a server and I know they depend on their tips for income. But it helps if you go to the same place frequently and are known as a good tipper. You always get much better service and the staff really appreciates it.

[A Little Weird]

41. I tip

But I don't like the system either. It's wrong that the workers essentially have to depend on the kindness of strangers.

What I really have trouble with is non-food tipping. Like at hotels and hair stylists. I don't travel a lot and don't always know when or where it's customary to tip or how much. I need a guide.

[Butterbean]

43. Non tippers have obviously never waited tables to support themselves.

I love the statement at the bottom, "if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out and eat." Yep.

[Cleita]

55. That's the way I feel. I never eat out any more unless someone treats me.

However, I always sneak an extra $5 on the table when we leave, because I don't know if my treater left a decent tip.

[tblue]

224. I love to tip!

Really. It makes my day to make somebody's day. I am well aware of how hard waitstaff work and I love leaving a surprisingly large tip. It's a joy and a privilege.

[JaneyVee]

47. I overtip. Mostly because I frequent the same couple of places and will see them again.

[kimmylavin]

49. Another good lesson I got from my Dad...

Always tip, and always tip well.
Server goes home happy, and especially if it's a place you frequent, they'll remember you.
(People love my Dad...)
So that's the first lesson I got.

Second one was from my sisters.
They both waited tables at Bennigan's - lot a cheapskates there.
When they got a great tip after getting shafted over and over, it really helped.

Third lesson.
I worked as a restaurant manager, for a restaurant with 8 - count 'em - 8 owners, 6 of whom were pennypinching jerks.
It killed me on those nights when the waitstaff would count up their receipts, turn over their money, and figure out how much they had left for tips.
Couldn't stay.
But every time I go to calculate a tip, I think of their faces.

Fourth lesson was more personal.
After a few experiences, I decided I couldn't date men who tipped badly.
I dated one guy whose parents would run a server ragged, ask for every discount possible, and then leave 10%, maybe.
He thought there was nothing wrong with that.
I took to carrying an extra $20 when I went out with them, and would always stop the server, warn her/him that they were going to be driven nuts, and slip them the money.

My husband?
On our first date, playing pool, he was kind to the waitress and tipped over 20%.
Nine years later, it is still one of the things I list about how I knew he was "the one."

Yes, it's a crappy system.
But until it changes, this is the one that we and the waitstaff operate under.
Just tip.

[Sheldon Cooper]

106. Your point about not dating anyone who is a bad tipper is actually

a pretty important one. How people tip is a good indicator of their personality. I would never go out a second time with someone who was chintzy with a tip.

[Throckmorton]

51. Throckmorton Tip Schedule (or why the wait staff at my regular places love me):

< good service 20% (example $2.20 on an $11.00 Check)
good to excellent service 25%, rounded up to the next dollar (Example $3.00 on an $11.00 Check)
world class service, 30% rounded up to the next five dollars (Eaxample $5.00 on an $11.00 Check)

I also tip higher for breakfast, as the meals are less expensive, but the servers are still breaking their humps.

[one_voice]

52. I always overtip..

if I have bad service I still leave at least 20%. I figure maybe they've had a bad day or something. I've had some very good waiters/waitresses. It's hard work.

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. ANOTHER tpping thread? nt

[WilliamPitt]

72. Yup. And you just kicked it.

Thanks!

[pansypoo53219]

61. a danish epal spent 3 weeks in america last spring. once he got to Wi, i had to explain why we tip

in amerika. i guess danish waiters get paid more. i had to explain why amerika is fucked up compared to socialist denmark. shit. he has asthma + got ^#$% ick from the flight + had to spend a day or so in the hospital. paid a lot for his meds. then he had to call denmark from here to tell the danish insurance system. rules they have. BUT, not only did they pay for his hospital stay, he got money for the vacation days he MISSED, the telephone costs. ETC ETC. it is time we killed zombie McCarthy as well.

[Solly Mack]

66. k&r

That's how I see it.

[Gorp]

70. "I don't just believe in tipping, I believe in over-tipping" - Steve Martin in "My Blue Heaven".

[reorg]

75. lame excuses

for not organizing to change the law so that restaurants are no longer "permitted to bypass the federal minimum wage requirements".

If you can't afford to pay your employees decent wages, state this very clearly on the menu: "Before you order your meal, be aware that the waitors serving you don't get paid by us, their employers. Because it's more convenient for us, we let them make the bargain with you. You decide what you pay them, you deal with their scorn and outrage if they are not satisfied. See how clever we are? And if you have the balls to disagree with this, you're just a cheap piece of shit."

[Major Nikon]

90. America is one of the few countries that go ape shit with tipping

For most of Europe, wait staff are paid a fair wage with good benefits. People don't tip that much, if at all because of it. Seems like a lot better way to run a railroad.

[reorg]

121. Yes, I'm not aware of any other country

with a system like that. Perhaps there are, but wherever I was in Mexico, other LA countries, India, the Philippines, where waiters certainly don't earn high wages, the "service charge" was always expressly included.

I don't mind tipping, if it is what it's like in Europe, giving some more because you feel like it and have money in your pocket. I do mind being bothered to act as a temporary employer and gauge wages when all I want is having a solid meal in a friendly atmosphere.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

80. Good point

Fortunately I have never met anyone who said they don't tip, and I certainly wouldn't dine with them.

[DinahMoeHum]

92. Another good site is Stained Apron.

http://www.stainedapron.com

Lots of great "war stories" in the section called "For Servers Only". Of course, it's NOT just for service employees. They also list those celebrities who are generous and those who are cheapskates.

[Paladin]

95. The "Sweet Revenge" Section Of Stained Apron Is Great Reading. (nt)

[DinahMoeHum]

117. Heh heh. "George Hayduke", eat your heart out!

"Paladin", ie. Paladin Press, or Loompanics

[eggplant]

98. 20% MINIMUM, then I round up which can easily get me to the 25-30% range

Financially, I am much better off than the people waiting on me. They've got bills to pay, they have to eat, and tipping is the only way they can make enough to do that.

Anyone who has the ability to tip who would choose not to is just being a douchebag. Ever had a bad day at work? Did you still get paid? Then stop whining about bad service. If you don't like the service, don't patronize the business. But kicking someone who is already down and having a crappy day is just assholish.

I tip because being nice to other people is the right thing to do. Someday our roles might be reversed, and if that day comes, they'll certainly remember my earlier generosity.

Whatever happened to simple manners?

[smirkymonkey]

191. +1000

My sentiments exactly.

[ErikJ]

100. Oregon and Washington pay servers $9 min wage. 10% tip OK.

I talked to a $10 an hour server yesterday from Washington and she said that she's happy with even a 10% tip.
Maybe the rest of the US will finally break away from their historical legacy of "slavery" someday.

Isnt it funny that the former slave states all pay only $2.30 an hour. They wont be happy until they servers are working for free again.

[BainsBane]

101. If you don't tip, don't go to the restaurant, period

because you aren't paying for your meal. The servers get $2 an hour. They don't earn minimum wage. You MUST tip or you're not paying for your meal. You're also a complete scumbag.

[ErikJ]

111. Thats why Food Carts Lots are booming!.

People just want something to eat at a reasonable price. They dont want to pay an arm and a leg. Sure people pulling in 100Gs a year will still eat out but the rest of the restaurants will probably go extinct.

[Beacool]

108. I always tip.

I don't get people who try to not tip or tip poorly (even when the service was good).

If I couldn't afford to tip I would go to a non-tipping type of establishment, such as a fast food restaurant.

Everyone knows that waiters make less than minimum wage and depend on their tips. I've had arguments with cheap friends about tipping, even leaving more than my fair share to compensate for their small tip.

Since I'm a good tipper I'm always treated very well at my regular haunts, including the nail salon and hair stylist.

[ColesCountyDem]

113. I tip 20%, minimum. n/t

[nineteen50]

124. Most waiters are paid very little so I tip 20%

but before I go in I want to know if they get sick pay. I don't want someone waiting on my family sick because they cannot afford a day off. Most big chains don't.

[quinnox]

125. I almost always tip, and in my view, you are a dirtbag if you don't

I tip my barber 20%, and always tip at restaurants 15-20% or more, if they gave really good service. If they gave lousy or horrible service, then I won't tip. But that is extremely rare.

Tipping is required, if you get a decent level of service. I don't want to be dirt-bag or scum bag and not tip.

[Notafraidtoo]

127. If you don't tip you are a asshole period.

In this society we have certain unsaid courtesy and cultural rules almost all of us were taught, you don't talk in theaters cause you ruin the movie for others, you don't cut people off, you don't play loud music in a apartment after 10 pm etc, doing any of these things make you a asshole.


Tipping is one of these things,if you have moral objections to tips, fight to change the laws or avoid business that expect you to tip other wise you are being a asshole by not tipping and have no excuse. I tip 20% or more even when my service is bad cause most bad service is due to things beyond a servers control, I am not going to be petty and judge that servers day i am going to tip cause i asked for their service by going to their job.


If that restaurant expects you to subsidize the wages of their wait staff then i am sure they are willing to not accept your business if you don't want to tip, it's the cost of doing business,so do everyone a favor don't eat in carry out, management tends to be very supportive of wait staff. Same goes for pizza Delivery or bellhops who carry your bags.



no tip means- pick up your own pizza,curbside pick-up,carry your own bags you have a choice they don't.

[Posteritatis]

149. And that goes double for the people who are proud and vocal about non-tipping

I don't think I've met anyone who makes a point of proclaiming that they won't tip, or that they'll tip a pittance for exceptional service, etc., who wasn't simply a self-absorbed douchebag when it came down to it.

[Lordquinton]

155. Think about what you said

And how not paying the staff is more acceptable than not tipping. The fight to change these laws will start when we turn it back onto the scumbag owners who don't feel like they should pay their staff, rather than the customers who are being required to do so for them.

[Notafraidtoo]

173. I hardly believe

I don't believe you go about making this happen by having a server or a worker run around for you then fuck them over, the better way would be to tell the restaurant this is why you don't use their business don't you think?

If you make someone run around for you and not tip them you are hardly doing a great moral deed.

" Thank you so much sir or madam for standing up for me getting better wages in a few years by giving me none now" i don't think you will ever hear someone say this.

[Lordquinton]

251. So the owner isn't at fault at all?

That's what I seem to be hearing "Yea, maybe they should [ay a living wage, but you're scum of the universe if you don't tip" No, the owner is scum for forcing the customers to make up the pay they get to take home instead. All across the globe you are proved flat out incorrect in how they can't pay their staff. You are wrong here, get that through your head. Don't blame the people who aren't tipping for screwing over the staff, blame the owner for not paying their employees.

Do you tip every service person you encounter? Should we eliminate the minimum wage altogether and just have workers all work for tips? Or should we stop with the talking points and say "No, this system is wrong, pay your workers!"

[Posteritatis]

180. Ahh, upgrading "rip off the wait staff" to a social virtue. (nt)

[RedCappedBandit]

131. Excellent response to those nitwits. nt

[ck4829]

141. If the subminimum wage was any lower, they could be paid literal peanuts

[michigandem58]

145. The hell of it is

most servers will still give good service, out of professional pride or fear of a complaint.

[Blue_In_AK]

147. I have no problem with tipping people who serve me in restaurants,

but I do kind of resent the expectation that I pay a tip to people who cut my hair when they're charging me 50 bucks for about a half hour of time. And why do they charge so much to cut women's hair anyway? My husband goes to a barber for $15.

[Cleita]

165. I kind of agree with you.

In a restaurant the entire cost of the meal goes to the house. In a beauty salon, the beautician pays some to the salon for her station, but otherwise pockets the fee. So it seems they should charge enough to cover what they believe their services are worth and no more.

[Starry Messenger]

148. Tipping starts at 20%.

We don't eat out much, but when we do, we tip well. Like Cleita said upthread, most servers are taxed a base 8% tip rate whether they received that tip or not. Another waitperson I was friends with several years ago told me the same thing.

Until there is a reform of our system of payment of waitstaff, this is what we have. Why stiff a fellow peon?

[mountain grammy]

150. When I was a college student, I went to NYC with some friends

We ate a a little restaurant in the city, like a diner. We had eaten out before and knew we should tip. Hell, two of us worked as waitresses. But we just plain forgot. We walked out of the restaurant, got in the car, and as we were pulling away from the curb, the old waiter (he looked pretty old to my 18 year old eyes) came running out of the restaurant waving his arms and screaming at us and we realized we had forgotten the tip. The driver took off. The other waitress and I wanted to go back and tip the man, we felt so bad, but we were overruled.
I never forgot that incident nearly 50 years ago, and I never again forgot to tip. Been making up for it ever since.

[Southerner]

152. I experienced what it was like in a country where people don't tip...

...but the servers were paid a pretty high wage - Australia. Service was generally poor and very slow. I learned to stick to American-owned resturants that at least instilled the high service ethic into their employees - but I still wasn't expected to tip there.

[MrModerate]

163. I live in Australia and visit the US every few months . . .

And in fact have lived almost half my life in the States. My experience is that the level of service in Aussie restaurants and US restaurants is indistinguishable.

And I have noticed zero difference in service levels between US-owned restaurants in Australia and any other.

[Violet_Crumble]

261. You must have struck a few dud places, because most places I go are good...

And I have seen the outside world, having been to Europe. My brother was in the US late last year and he said the same sort of thing as Mr Moderate did, that for the most part there's no real difference in quality. He said he struck some really good and a few not too good, and that's pretty much how it is here too. While I don't tip ever, I do make a point of never returning to a place where I've gotten bad service (and yes I'm looking at you, Brierly's Cafe! When you advertise an all-day breakfast, are busy but have a few tables free, don't expect me to be returning if you leave me sitting there for over half an hour without coming to take my order, and then inform me that we can sit and wait for breakfast if we want, but they probably won't have time to do it coz they're sooo busy).

[fantase56]

153. I worked in the industry for 24 years...

I tried to wait tables and I sucked at it, so I moved to the kitchen. Anyone who can wait tables with a modicum of skill gets 20% from me. If they excel they get more. I've always done that and as a result am remembered and appreciated at all the restaurants I go to. Personally, I think that there should be a required high school or college course where you wait tables in a local restaurant for a semester.

[UrbScotty]

166. Welcome to DU!

[Bjorn Against]

159. I always tip well, but honestly the servers should not have to rely on tips

I think tipping should be done away with and instead the restaurants should pay their employees a livable wage. No waitress should have to keep their fingers crossed and hope their customers tip well, they should know that when they work they will leave with a decent pay check.

[MrModerate]

160. Note to ifyoucantaffordtotip.com: Bite me

In other threads I've made my opinion clear that the practice of tipping is a fraud perpetrated by restaurant owners on customers and employees alike — where the owner pretends that the uncertain kindness of strangers is a legitimate component of an employee's compensation while relying on guilty restaurant patrons who know servers are being cheated to make up the difference.

But this fraud is also perpetuated by its victims — servers and patrons — who seem to be helpless in the face of a grossly unjust system.

So rather than trying to bully patrons who object to the system, maybe organizations like ifyoucantaffordtotip should be advocating for industrial action rather than spitting in people's, err . . . faces.

And let's put the fantasy that tipping is based on "performance" to bed once and for all. Tipping is required because otherwise servers (good, bad and indifferent) can't survive. While good service might be appropriately rewarded with a more generous tip, mediocre servers need to pay their rent too, and as long as the system prevails, the moral obligation to tip remains.

The system sucks; it wouldn't be necessary if restaurants instead were required to pay a living wage, as is the case in other countries; and ifyoucantaffordtotip sucks, too, for being assholes about the whole thing.

[Posteritatis]

179. Meh. If you can afford to eat out you are not the victim here. Get over yourself. (nt)

[MrModerate]

205. Sorry. I'm a restaurant patron. That gives me right to an opinion.

Got problem with that? See my original post.

[theKed]

214. You also have the right

to shitty service when the service staff getvto know your poor tipping behaviour.

[MrModerate]

216. What's most interesting about this issue of tipping . . .

Is how the poor reading comprehension that so frequently afflicts righty posters on their sites begins to afflict the progressive community.

My explanation was about 75 words. Give it a read before you lambaste me.

[Notafraidtoo]

181. I think it is the customers job

The system wont change until the customer refuses to do any business with company's that practice this but once you walk in the door of that restaurant and sit down you have just shown support for this system and are expected to follow its unsaid rules. not tipping when you frequent the business that expects you to subsidizes their servers wages only harms the poor person that is just trying to get by.

If you hate this system be vocal about it and avoid all business that practice it.

People that walk in and run a server around and not tip deserve to be shamed that server could have waited on someone else that would have tipped but no you stole their services.

[MrModerate]

207. I agree with most of what you've said . . .

And I have voted with my feet on the tipping system: I live in a country where it's not done. When I visit the States, however, I reluctantly comply.

But the issue is much larger than just restaurants. Huge chunks of the US labor system are based on literally starvation wages (at least in most restaurants, the servers get fed), with the customer or society as a whole supposed to fill the gap.

That's a problem bigger than me, I'm afraid, and it's one reason why -- although I retain my American citizenship and will eventually come back -- I much prefer where I'm living now. They solved this problem years ago by making a societal decision that full-time 'adult' jobs needed to provide a living wage.

For the most part the system works, aided substantially by a single-payer healthcare system that relieves employers of that burden (by shifting it to them as taxpayers, of course), an innate belief in the dignity of labor, and -- to be honest -- substantially higher prices for everything.

It's a trade-off I'm happy to make.

[AAO]

162. "I don't tip". Well, how FUCKING convenient!! Cheap ingenuous dick head!

[octothorpe]

178. You might want to read the post...

[AAO]

194. Why do you say that? I read it just fine. Do you think it's OK not to tip?

[MrModerate]

208. Based on your comment, it appears you don't understand the original post. n/t

[AAO]

233. That's what you say. If it's so difficult for me to understand, please explain it to me.

[MrModerate]

254. The post criticizes those who don't tip . . .

While your response appears to be criticizing the OP for being in favor of not tipping. There is some sort of a disconnect here.

[AAO]

255. I guess there was a BIG disconnect

I was bitching about those that don't tip as some kind of "principle", not at the OP. I was actually agreeing with the OP.

[MrModerate]

262. Well. Now *that's* cleared up . . .

What do you think of the Niners' chances next year?

[AAO]

263. Being born and raised as a Packer fanatic I hope their chances suck

But what do I think? I think there is a good chance they will be as good as they were last year. If Colin Kaepernick proves to be as good as he was last year on a consistent basis, then entire league is in big trouble for years to come.

If Aaron Rodgers continues to get sacked 40-50 times a year and continue to have no pass rush (both problems which the 49ers don't have) then we are not going far in the playoffs and AR is 29 already.

To summarize: 49ers chances = very good, Packers chances = depends on Ted Thompson using free agency and the draft to bolster the OL and DL. Also maybe not so many injuries!

What do you think?

[BigD_95]

171. I call BS!!!!

Since when did it become my job to pay for a servers wage? How about the restaurant pay a livable wage. If the wait staft is good I will throw them some extra $.

That's how I feel but it's not what I do. I tip like most do but it's a racket. I tip 15% for normal service, 10 % for bad and 20% for good.

But it's a con. Raise the prices of food and pay $12 per hour. If they are good people will give them some extra cash

[union_maid]

198. It becomes your job when you go to the restaurant

You know that's how it works. You don't have to go there. 10%? If you got your food at all you should do better than that. Decent service starts at 20% and feel free to leave more for exceptional service.

[Douglas Carpenter]

172. in some countries such as Australia and some European countries servers make a more reasonable wage

and tipping is not expected or gratuity is calculated into the price. But given that this is not the case in America - going out to eat in a restaurant where everyone knows that the servers make sub-minimum wage from the restaurant itself and thus depend on tips - not tipping is really simply stealing.

[Chalco]

174. I recently spent a week in England. There is no tipping.

I guess the servers get paid enough?

[smirkymonkey]

193. When I was in London, I still tipped 20%. They must have thought I was a total idiot.

But nobody ever gave me my money back, so I guess they didn't object too much. I just feel too guilty to walk away from a table leaving anything less than that, regardless of cultural tipping practices. It just doesn't seem right to me for some reason. Bad American habit, I know.

[Chalco]

240. Yes, one confided in me that Americans often did that. But

that it wasn't necessary.

[Warpy]

176. And if you do that

you need to be aware that the chef isn't a fan of Food TV who puts foam on everything...

[OceanEcosystem]

183. Why can't restaurants just be required to pay minimum wage anyway?

So that waiters and waitresses would no longer have to supplement their wages with tips?

[rppper]

185. I'll be torquing some f/b associates....

....that were having no problem throwing out that little copy and print note about not tipping because of taxes, Obama care, {insert right wing false rage talking point here....}....thanks Mr.Pitt!

[Historic NY]

186. I tip so I don't have to wait long...

they might not know my name but they know i tip To Insure Prompt Service...its sometimes embarrassing when the partner leaving the business comes back and shakes my hand and ask how I'm doing. I had 4 guests with me...it was like a they know you moment.

[4 t 4]

187. are you kidding me , william

there are so many people that can't even go to Mcdonalds and you post a thread about tipping, really tipping? What is going on ? So many people can't even eat and you write a post about tipping ? What happened ?

[4 t 4]

200. omg , what has happened ? tipping -really when people can't afford Walmart ? I know some who are bad

[Leftcoastgary]

202. I live in Oregon and all waitstaff get minimum wage

Tip credit is not legal. Our minimum wage is $8.95. The last election was lost by a republican that questioned this fact.
If I get good service I tip well. If the service is not so good I tip less. I still know that the waitstaff gets a decent minimum wage. I also know that at most establishments the waitstaff beyond the waiter/ess share in these tips. They need something too.

[blackspade]

206. I do not disagree.

The bottom portion has been something I have been saying since my first restaurant job.

[caseymoz]

209. Anybody unethical enough not to tip

would be unethical enough to ignore that demand.

[BobTheSubgenius]

210. I also tip based on performance, but NOT a fixed % of the bill.

It doesn't take any more effort to serve a $40 plate than it does a $10 burger. Why should one server get $8 and the other $2?

[Bonobo]

211. There s no tipping in Japan

Somehow they have figured out how to pay the staff enough AND get them to treat customers well even without extra monetary incentive.

Not rocket science.

[colsohlibgal]

215. I Always Tip Big

20-25% - it's the right thing to do and it works for you as well. I'm sure my hairdresser puts more effort into doing my hair than someone leaving 5% or something paltry like that.

At places like restaurants it's essential, those people depend on tips.

What angers me most are wealthy people who are stingy about tipping.

[donheld]

217. Then if the staff spits in your food too fucking bad.

This is not aimed at William. It's aimed at any fool who thinks they don't need to tip.

[Ed Suspicious]

219. Fuck that! I don't know if it's criminal to do that but is sure as hell should be. You should get

jail time for doing that. End of story.

[donheld]

221. I didn't say it was right now did I?

Don't think it doesn't happen.

[Ed Suspicious]

220. I say that as the unlucky recipient of a large wad of hair underneath the cheese on my pizza at

a "fast food" Chicago style pizza restaurant. The restaurant in reference is on that offers thick crust pizza cut into squares and served in individual portion sized boxes. I can't fathom how it could have been an accident. This looked as though someone cleaned out their hairbrush and baked it into the pizza. It put me off of eating out for a long long time.

[donheld]

222. I'm very sorry that happened to you.

[mattclearing]

228. I have generally tipped regardless of performance.

Honestly, when a server has been struggling to keep up or seemed obviously unhappy, I have tried to not make their life even harder by punishing them.

Now I live in Australia, where servers are paid above the $15.96 minimum wage (yup) and gratuities are not expected and occasionally discouraged, but I still tip if there's a line for it on the bill. Sometimes people look at me like I'm a space alien, but it's just ingrained.

[L0oniX]

243. Why are you attacking canadians? n/t

[WilliamPitt]

250. ^^^ Ron Obvious Award Winner ^^^

[TeamPooka]

244. k+r!

[krispos42]

245. Nice.

If you can't afford to tip, don't eat at a sit-down restaurant. There are a plethora of fast-food places.

[flvegan]

257. Nice work, Will.

I won't say why. A quick look up will elaborate on that.

[BainsBane]

288. If you don't tip, you're not paying for your meal

Get the order to go and don't use service you aren't paying for. There is NO EXCUSE. If you can afford the meal, you can afford the tip. That employers are cheap is not an excuse not to tip. The ones who don't tip are responsible for the poor wages of the workers as well.