This coming from Caracas

[nadinbrzezinski]

Mr Maduro stressed that a tracheal tube does not prevent Mr Chavez "from communicating and giving orders on all aspects of the economic, social and political life of our country".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9900083/Hugo-Chavez-death-reports-wrong-says-vice-president.html

That statement alone from the Veep of Venezueala is laugh worthy.

Anybody who knows anything about tracheal tubes...that go through the vocal cords...

Folks...the mystery deepens...and I am increasingly reminded of the Premiere of the USSR is indisposed with a cold...

[SoCalDem]

1. Hugo will not be with us very much longer..

He probably can "communicate" ..just not verbally..

It;s possible though, that he may be sedated part of the time, or at least on heavy painkillers.. I know that many here do not like him, and he;s a bit of a buffoon, but I do think hie heart was in the right place when it came to the poor people in Venezuela.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Not in dispute that his heart likely was in the right place

Sedated, constantly. That telegraph story truly reminds me of the deaths of one too many premieres.

I just went...time for the government to be honest and face the constitutional crisis head on...all that good could, likely will, be squandered.

[SoCalDem]

6. Whomever succeeds a transitional leader often falls short.

He probably held onto power too long. Hang on Venezuelans, it might be a bumpy ride..

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. He should not have run for this term.

Bumpy does not start to describe it.

[polly7]

15. I'm very glad he ran, and won.

Anyone else might have lost to the right-wing nuts trying to take Venezuela back to the pre-Chavez days, and he and the people who love and support him have all worked too hard and for too long for that to happen. He's made arrangements for his successor. I think he was very brave, as sick as he was .... the people of Venezuela have said the revolution WILL go on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. And then there s the issue of the Constitutional criss.

[msanthrope]

2. Terry Schiavo. That is all. nt

[Cleita]

4. My husband was hooked up to one for 24 hours, however, he was still able

to communicate by other means. I don't know however if you could run a whole government that way.

Chavez is probably dying or even dead IMHO. We really won't know because his government will be trying to put some security in place to control any riots from happening, which are likely. It is the way of South America, I fear.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. My view, they are delaying the obvious as long as possible.

He could use a pad, but run a country? No, not really.

[sadbear]

5. Perhaps Hugo has a large legal pad?

And a big, wide-tipped Sharpie?

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Anybody who's been around an ICU

Knows patients with a breathing tube are sedated...

Be able to ask for simple things, with a pad, sure...run a country, not so much.

[sadbear]

10. What are you talking about?

The U.S. was more or less run that way for 8 years.

[Comrade Grumpy]

11. This is morbid and unseemly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. What, trying to make heads or tails of an actual nooz story?

He's going to pass, this will throw Venezuela into a crisis, and will affect it's neighbors. That is what is morbid I guess...caring of what happens away from our borders. Feel free to alert, please do.

[Comrade Grumpy]

13. Not alert-worthy, just tacky. Are you trying to get a scoop or something?

When he dies, that will be a news story. All this speculation, meh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Nah, just trying to track the story

I find that worthy of pursuit, you say tacky.

Reminds me of the deaths of a few Soviet premieres, who strangely only had a cold when they disappeared. I think Nikita had one for five months.

Now...that s tacky, to their people. I guess we have a different definition of tacky.

Oh and one last thing, how exactly do I get a scoop by quoting a paper? It's not like I got contacts (sources) in Caracas, or I am physically there...kind of hard to do that you know, if you are not physically there. Maybe your definition of a scoop is different from mine as well.

[Codeine]

66. "Maybe your definition of a scoop is different from mine as well."

That was probably the most unintentional bit of hilarity EVER posted on DU. Perhaps you can call Caracas and get one of your famous "non-denial denials" from a base commander.

[zappaman]

68. Thank you for your post!

I would have missed this otherwise.
May I join you?

[RZM]

25. The Venezuelan government has been remarkably tight-lipped about Chavez's cancer

For a long time now. Fragments of information and speculation have been the name of the game . . . especially since he went to Cuba.

I see no harm in it

[theKed]

14. not just neighbours

with all the oil there, very easily what happens next will have global ramifications

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Yup, but the first effect will be to the Southern states

And that political block in the word stage.

[sad-cafe]

71. I really get tired of your "nooz" I guess it is a pet peeve

it is NEWS

you as a "journalist" should respect that

[Cleita]

19. CBC put this out this morning.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/02/28/wrd-venezuela-chavez-cancer-health-life.html?cmp=rss

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. That is consistent with English language coverage

Spanish language is still speculating on whether he is still alive or not. Debating tuning in Radio Caracol (I know to the right, but...)

[reorg]

26. Perhaps the merchants of dirt you seem busy to seek out

La Jornada OTOH reported on Sunday:

... que el mandatario sigue respirando mediante una cánula traqueal que no le impide dictar órdenes por escrito y "otras vías" desde el hospital militar en el que está internado en Caracas - See more at: http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2013/02/24/mundo/023n2mun#sthash.4a3IrmDl.dpuf

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yup, tracheal tube

And...your point...

You think that they are not sedating him? That is against a slew of standard treatment protocols in ICU units around the word. I have no reason to believe they'd do that, and increase suffering, but that is just me. Maybe they are, n which case we enter bio medical ethics standards.

You seem to be having a problem with this fact, Chavez will die...soon. (If not already dead)

And that will throw Venezuela into the mother of constitutional crisis. Why if he already passed they are pulling a soviet style succession on the rest of us.

By the way the section I quoted from The Telegraph, which is laugh worthy, is a translation of what Jornada used. Funny that!!!!

[Pararescue]

28. It's a well known fact to those of us trained in this procedure

that if the patient isn't sedated or unconscious, when tubing someone, there will be a gag reflex possibly followed by copious amounts of vomit.

One the tube is inserted, the patient is usually kept sedated to prevent a possible removal of tube by patient.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Yup

Why the thing is laugh worthy.

Unless you are doing CPR, you need to sedate your patient.

Oh and welcome to DU

[Pararescue]

30. Thank you.

I do believe that Mr. Chavez has already passed on and that the PTB are afraid of the turmoil this will cause, much like in the now defunct Soviet Union.

I read the comments of those that have no idea of what's involved in tubing someone and just shake my head in wonder, but I really can't blame them, unless you've been there and done it, you can't really understand what's all involved in an emergency procedure like that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Or the ICU setting

Hell, even in the controlled setting of an operating room, where likely he was tubed, you still need to use a paralytic...unless standards and protocols have changed. The last patient I tubed was in 1994.

[Pararescue]

32. Even in a controlled setting like an ICU, yes.

As you can tell by my user name, mine was almost always in a non ICU setting and we did alway use a paralytic agent, usually something like Lidocaine or if we had a RN on our crew, sucs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. My experience was in the streets

A field medic, but we were trained in ICU and the OR, with a stint in the trauma bay. That's pretty standard actually.

Why when I read that, I started laughing hard.

In all seriousness, I wonder how the government is planning to let the people know. By law they need to call for elections in 30 days. After this, I don't think Maduro has a chance in hell.

[Pararescue]

36. You're a paramedic, right?

Then you have the pretty much the same experience as I do, except mine was all military.

Ahhhh, kindred spirits, even though I retired from the Air Force in 98. Pleased to make your acquittance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Red Cross paramedic, Mexican

And yes, similar experiences.

One difference, I helped to get the training going from 50 hours advanced first aid, to first EMT'S-II, and then EMT-P...that was a fight.

[Pararescue]

52. Fantastic work

from one EMT-P to another EMT-P.
Are you still active? If so, keep up the good work.
I'll bet we've got stories to tell each other, but that's for another time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Nope...I got my back with a bad lift

Which could not be avoided.

[Pararescue]

57. So sorry to hear that.

But at least we still have our memories, the ones we saved and the ones we lost.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. And the patient lived

I hate flash floods.

[Pararescue]

60. As crass as this may sound,

at least your back went out with positive results for the patient.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. That is the way I take it

And the doctor said I would have back issues for the rest of my life. In time it might need surgery.

So do therapy, and keep from any heavy lifting.

I just got to remember to do it. When I gained a lot f weight, sde effect of Avandia, I thought it would finally need it. Lost the weight over two years, and that is that.

[In_The_Wind]

72. Hello ~ Pararescue

[img][/img]


In The Wind
[img][/img]

[Pararescue]

75. Hello yourself

and thank you for the welcome.

[In_The_Wind]

76. Indeed. When you feel like a LOL visit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1018 [img][/img]

[Pararescue]

77. Now that I've got some down time,

I'll check this out. Thanks for the link.

[uppityperson]

39. Elsewhere on the internet it says tracheostomy, not endotrach. Photos I find also show that.

[uppityperson]

38. Reading elsewhere, he has a tracheostomy tube, not an endotrach. Which is a very different thing.

[uppityperson]

35. Endotrach yes, tracheostomy, no. Which does he have? All I see is "trach" which to me is tracheostom

[Pararescue]

41. I was allowed to do the Endotrach, not the trach.

If we had an RN on our crew, they would have to do the trach, it wasn't in my protocols to do a trach, even though I knew how.

You're right, it doesn't say which procedure was done on him, whether he was tubed or had a trach done.

[uppityperson]

45. I found this article which talks about a tracheotomy.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/22/3153495/venezuelas-hugo-chavez-undergoes.html

I had a fun job helping a toddler with a trach who was learning how to pull it out. Daily. First time was nerve wracking, then it became routine putting it back in and hoping said kid would soon learn that pulling it out = difficulty breathing.

[malaise]

62. We had news reports from Venezuela with the VP saying that

Hugo is battling for his life.
We're all going to die - it's part of life.

[geek tragedy]

21. Also calls to mind late-term Reagan and Woodrow Wilson nt.

[RebelOne]

22. My Chihuahua has a collapsed tracheal, which is common in Chihuahuas,

but it definitely does not have any effect on her yapping.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Not the same

A well known side effect of a tracheal tube s you cannot talk.

Go ahead, google it.

The second is patients at times feel antsy and try to remove them, why they are sedated...again. Go ahead and google it.

As a medic I inserted a few, by the way.

[uppityperson]

34. Endotrach true. Tracheostomy, no. Looks like he has a tracheostomy.

People live with trachs for a long long time without problems.

Did you really insert tracheostomy tubes? I've reinserted them, changed them, but never did the original tracheostomy tube.

People can still communicate by writing and if they have a speaking gadget thingie they can speak. Or if they plug the tube they can.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Cannula tracheal, means he was tubed

Take my word, that is what it translates into.

I mean, I learned both.

In Spanish tracheostomy is traquestomia, all reports are referring to tubing with endotrarch, not a trach...why I am truly, really, laughing, and hard.

[uppityperson]

42. From what I read and photos I have seen, it is a tracheostomy. And everywhere says tracheotomy

which is cutting into the trachea through the neck.


http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/22/3153495/venezuelas-hugo-chavez-undergoes.html

Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez is on artificial respiration after undergoing a tracheotomy earlier this week, according to the Madrid-based publication ABC.

Chávez has been suffering from complications after his fourth surgery in Havana, Cuba to treat cancer. Doctors performed the tracheotomy after a respiratory infection blocked the leader’s breathing, ABC reported. The procedure involves opening a hole in the neck so the patient can breathe without using the nose or mouth.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. I know what it is

This is the most recent photo, not showing either



Which I will add, lends more gas to the questions

[uppityperson]

46. Obviously not an endotrach there, could be a trach under the zipper of the shirt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. And it could be what some of us re starting to suspect.

The premiere is indisposed with a cold.

[uppityperson]

50. Or dead. Indeed. I was just addressing the issues associated with endotrach vs trach.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. But alas only one source is saying trach

Which you found. The rest are talking of endo...

Also the type of complications, including organ failure and anti biotic resistant pneumonia...(which are consistent across)...IMHO the government should stop the games and prepare the people of Venezuela.

[uppityperson]

58. Alas? Whatever. My point was...

there is a big difference between inserting and aftercare of a trach vs endotrach. That was my point.

[zappaman]

51. "The premiere"?

What is Venezuela premiering?
And they are gonna cancel because of the cold?

[KittyWampus]

53. IMO, he's on life support and unconscious. Dying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Oh and this is why all this ain't healthy

The opposition students come from two main groups; the 13 Movement, a far-right, and often violent movement based in the University of Los Andes, and the Active Youth Venezuela United (JAVU) “white hands” movement.

JAVU came out of the Organisation of Venezuelans in Exile (ORVEX), based in Miami.

Yesterday the minister for justice and internal affairs, Nestor Reverol, reported that Venezuela’s crime investigation body, the CICPC, had arrested Jose Peralta. Peralta was caught on video attacking an elderly man and breaking part of his pacemaker during the protest outside the Cuban embassy. Peralta will go before a court. Reverol pointed out that Venezuelan private media had ignored the incident.

Electricity minister Hector Navarro argued that it was important to be aware of the opposition’s actions, as they “are the allies of imperialism in Venezuela” and “our country is a global reference in terms of anti-imperialism... imperialism is aware that to end the Venezuelan revolution would be to eliminate other revolutions in the world”.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7953

We call this destabilization.

[Bucky]

43. Excellent point. There's just no technology available by which a voiceless human can communicate

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Not if you are that sedated

Which is pretty standard.

[Bucky]

54. Do you really think Hugo Chavez ON drugs could be any more loony than Hugo on a good day?

My theory is that anything that impairs his judgment can only help the Venezuelan people in the long run.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Be careful of what you wish for

This as the potential of a nasty crisis.

[Bucky]

64. nasty crisis

YEEeeeaaahh... Nastay!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Big whatever

[KittyWampus]

49. He's on life support. And I am also reminded of Kremlin

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Msnbc just went on breaking news

"Fighting for his life."

To those of us who remember...this is way too familiar.

Who knew we'd be reading tea leaves from a Latin Country that is not Cuba.

[KamaAina]

69. Woodrow Wilson had a stroke while in office

for months his wife Edith ran the show. She is sometime referred to as "our first female President".

The question is, who is Venezuela's Edith?

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Veep Maduro.

[KamaAina]

73. The homophobe?

Yuk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Designated successor, the Constitution be damned

Why this will be a guaranteed crisis.